ADVERTISEMENT

Trump's brown-shirted menace

Rockfish1

Hall of Famer
Sep 2, 2001
36,255
6,841
113
I'm going to quote this link-studded Ezra Klein piece in support of the contention that Donald Trump's explicit calls for lawless violence are both dangerous and reprehensible:

During a rally in St. Louis Friday, Donald Trump lamented that "nobody wants to hurt each other anymore."

Yes, lamented.

The topic was protesters, and Trump's frustration was clear. "They're being politically correct the way they take them out," he sighed. "Protesters, they realize there are no consequences to protesting anymore. There used to be consequences. There are none anymore."

"Our country has to toughen up folks. We have to toughen up. These people are bringing us down. They are bringing us down. These people are so bad for our country, you have no idea."

This is more than an aside; this is the core of Trump's ideology. The protesters who interrupted his rally, the political correctness that kept the police from cracking their skulls, the press that takes the hippies' side — this is why America has stopped being great. We were strong, and we were tough, and we didn't take this kind of shit from anybody. And now we are weak, and we are scared, and we take this kind of shit from everybody.

How is a country that can't shut down a protester going to out-negotiate the Chinese? How is a country that that is so afraid of hurt feelings going to crush ISIS?

"We better toughen up, we better smarten up, and we better stop with this political correctness because it’s driving us down the tubes," Trump said.

Hours after that speech, 32 people were arrested and several were injured as Trump's supporters clashed with anti-Trump protesters and police. That night, Trump had to cancel a rally in Chicago for safety reasons.

Violence is scary. But violence-as-ideology is terrifying. And that's where Trump's campaign has gone.

"Knock the hell out of them. I promise you I will pay for the legal fees. I promise."

On February 1st, Trump made a promise to an angry crowd. You protect me, he said, and I'll protect you. "If you see someone getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them, would you? Seriously. Knock the hell out of them. I promise you I will pay for the legal fees. I promise."

No one threw a tomato at that rally. But a few weeks later, Donald Trump showed that he meant what he said — if you used force to protect him, he'd have your back.

Trump was leaving a rally when Michelle Fields, a reporter for the Trump-friendly Breitbart News, stepped forward to ask a question. Corey Lewandowski, Donald Trump's campaign manager, grabbed her by the arm and threw her out of the way. His grip was hard enough to leave bruises on her arm. The moment was witnessed by Ben Terris, a Washington Post reporter, and there's audio and video record of it.

There were simple ways Trump's campaign could have responded to this. Lewandowski could have apologized. He could have said Fields startled him, and he was protecting his candidate.

But this is the press we're talking about. "The most dishonest human beings on earth." No ****ing way Trump was going to back down to them.

"The accusation which has only been made in the media and never addressed directly with the campaign is entirely false," Trump's spokeswoman, Hope Hicks, said in a statement.

"Michelle Fields is an attention seeker," tweeted Lewandowski.

"This was, in my opinion, made up," Trump himself said. "Everybody said nothing happened. Perhaps she made the story up. I think that's what happened."

Donald Trump will pay your legal fees. He will believe your baldfaced lie. He is on your side against the protesters, the press, the losers who are bring America down. He knows things get rough sometimes. He's got your back.

"People who are following me are very passionate"

"The incidents are piling up," wrote Lucia Graves at the Guardian. "A Black Lives Matters protester was sucker-punched by a white bystander at a rally in Fayetteville, North Carolina. A young black woman was surrounded and shoved aggressively by a number of individuals at a rally in Louisville, Kentucky. A black protester was tackled, then punched and kicked by a group of men as he curled up on the ground in Birmingham, Alabama. Immigration activists were shoved and stripped of their signsby a crowd in Richmond, Virginia. A Latino protester was knocked down and kicked by a Trump supporter in Miami."

I would add another "incident" to Graves' list. Back in August, two young Trump supporters, Scott and Steve Leader, were charged in the beating of a homeless Mexican man. They found him sleeping outside a subway station and began hitting him with a metal pole.

According to police, Scott Leader justified the assault by telling them, "Donald Trump was right — all these illegals need to be deported."

Asked to react to the beating, Trump said he had no knowledge of it, which would have been fine. But he didn't stop there. "I will say that people who are following me are very passionate," Trump replied. "They love this country and they want this country to be great again."

"These are the people that are destroying our country"

The great mistake the media makes with Donald Trump is to pretend he has no ideology — that he's just a celebrity, a carnival barker, a reality star.

As my colleague Matt Yglesias has written, Trump does have an ideology. He does have an agenda. The core of Trumpism is "a revived and unapologetic American nationalism, which will stand for American interests abroad while defending the traditional conception of the American nation at home."

Like most nationalists, the emotional center of Trump's ideology is an Us vs. Them argument. "These are not the people who made our country great," Trump told the crowd in St. Louis. "We're going to make it great again, but these are not the people. These are the people that are destroying our country."

The Us must somehow defeat the Them — and the stakes are high, the future of the greatest country the world has ever known depends on the outcome. This is why nationalistic, Us vs.Them appeals lend themselves so easily and naturally to violence.

This is what Trump supporters hear at his rallies. They are told that America is no longer great. They are told who to blame. They are told that the reason these losers are dragging America down is we have become too politically correct, too scared, too weak, to stop them. They are told Trump will pay their legal fees if they want to do what's necessary. "There used to be consequences," Trump sighs. The crowd knows what he's asking. Make Consequences Real Again.

This is ugly, but it is coherent. What Trump is offering is an explanation and a solution; an argument and an ideology. It is dangerous, and it is violent, but it is not confusing, and it is not unclear.

And this is why Trump is something different and more dangerous in American life. He is a man with an evident appetite for suppressing dissent with violence, a man who believes America's problem is that it's too gentle to its dissidents. Trump is making an argument for a politics backed by force, for a security service unleashed from "political correctness," for a country where protesting has consequences. The results are playing out before us, night after night, on our televisions.

If Trump wins and this country goes down a dark path, we will never be able to say we didn't see it coming. We will never be able to say we weren't warned
This is not politics as usual. It is unprecedented. Whatever the rudeness or disruptions of protesters, the GOP's presumptive presidential nominee has openly, expressly, and repeatedly called for his followers to engage in violent criminal repression of dissidents in their midst. In response, Republicans have mostly sniffed that yes, well, that's unfortunate, but of course these protesters are rude, so there's blame all around.

That is bullshit.

Despite multiple locked threads, the truth remains. Donald Trump is a brown-shirted demagogue, and his calls for politically motivated violence are abhorrent, however disruptive the protesters may be. If you guys can't see what's wrong here, then you're the problem.
 
I'm going to quote this link-studded Ezra Klein piece in support of the contention that Donald Trump's explicit calls for lawless violence are both dangerous and reprehensible:

During a rally in St. Louis Friday, Donald Trump lamented that "nobody wants to hurt each other anymore."

Yes, lamented.

The topic was protesters, and Trump's frustration was clear. "They're being politically correct the way they take them out," he sighed. "Protesters, they realize there are no consequences to protesting anymore. There used to be consequences. There are none anymore."

"Our country has to toughen up folks. We have to toughen up. These people are bringing us down. They are bringing us down. These people are so bad for our country, you have no idea."

This is more than an aside; this is the core of Trump's ideology. The protesters who interrupted his rally, the political correctness that kept the police from cracking their skulls, the press that takes the hippies' side — this is why America has stopped being great. We were strong, and we were tough, and we didn't take this kind of shit from anybody. And now we are weak, and we are scared, and we take this kind of shit from everybody.

How is a country that can't shut down a protester going to out-negotiate the Chinese? How is a country that that is so afraid of hurt feelings going to crush ISIS?

"We better toughen up, we better smarten up, and we better stop with this political correctness because it’s driving us down the tubes," Trump said.

Hours after that speech, 32 people were arrested and several were injured as Trump's supporters clashed with anti-Trump protesters and police. That night, Trump had to cancel a rally in Chicago for safety reasons.

Violence is scary. But violence-as-ideology is terrifying. And that's where Trump's campaign has gone.

"Knock the hell out of them. I promise you I will pay for the legal fees. I promise."

On February 1st, Trump made a promise to an angry crowd. You protect me, he said, and I'll protect you. "If you see someone getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them, would you? Seriously. Knock the hell out of them. I promise you I will pay for the legal fees. I promise."

No one threw a tomato at that rally. But a few weeks later, Donald Trump showed that he meant what he said — if you used force to protect him, he'd have your back.

Trump was leaving a rally when Michelle Fields, a reporter for the Trump-friendly Breitbart News, stepped forward to ask a question. Corey Lewandowski, Donald Trump's campaign manager, grabbed her by the arm and threw her out of the way. His grip was hard enough to leave bruises on her arm. The moment was witnessed by Ben Terris, a Washington Post reporter, and there's audio and video record of it.

There were simple ways Trump's campaign could have responded to this. Lewandowski could have apologized. He could have said Fields startled him, and he was protecting his candidate.

But this is the press we're talking about. "The most dishonest human beings on earth." No ****ing way Trump was going to back down to them.

"The accusation which has only been made in the media and never addressed directly with the campaign is entirely false," Trump's spokeswoman, Hope Hicks, said in a statement.

"Michelle Fields is an attention seeker," tweeted Lewandowski.

"This was, in my opinion, made up," Trump himself said. "Everybody said nothing happened. Perhaps she made the story up. I think that's what happened."

Donald Trump will pay your legal fees. He will believe your baldfaced lie. He is on your side against the protesters, the press, the losers who are bring America down. He knows things get rough sometimes. He's got your back.

"People who are following me are very passionate"

"The incidents are piling up," wrote Lucia Graves at the Guardian. "A Black Lives Matters protester was sucker-punched by a white bystander at a rally in Fayetteville, North Carolina. A young black woman was surrounded and shoved aggressively by a number of individuals at a rally in Louisville, Kentucky. A black protester was tackled, then punched and kicked by a group of men as he curled up on the ground in Birmingham, Alabama. Immigration activists were shoved and stripped of their signsby a crowd in Richmond, Virginia. A Latino protester was knocked down and kicked by a Trump supporter in Miami."

I would add another "incident" to Graves' list. Back in August, two young Trump supporters, Scott and Steve Leader, were charged in the beating of a homeless Mexican man. They found him sleeping outside a subway station and began hitting him with a metal pole.

According to police, Scott Leader justified the assault by telling them, "Donald Trump was right — all these illegals need to be deported."

Asked to react to the beating, Trump said he had no knowledge of it, which would have been fine. But he didn't stop there. "I will say that people who are following me are very passionate," Trump replied. "They love this country and they want this country to be great again."

"These are the people that are destroying our country"

The great mistake the media makes with Donald Trump is to pretend he has no ideology — that he's just a celebrity, a carnival barker, a reality star.

As my colleague Matt Yglesias has written, Trump does have an ideology. He does have an agenda. The core of Trumpism is "a revived and unapologetic American nationalism, which will stand for American interests abroad while defending the traditional conception of the American nation at home."

Like most nationalists, the emotional center of Trump's ideology is an Us vs. Them argument. "These are not the people who made our country great," Trump told the crowd in St. Louis. "We're going to make it great again, but these are not the people. These are the people that are destroying our country."

The Us must somehow defeat the Them — and the stakes are high, the future of the greatest country the world has ever known depends on the outcome. This is why nationalistic, Us vs.Them appeals lend themselves so easily and naturally to violence.

This is what Trump supporters hear at his rallies. They are told that America is no longer great. They are told who to blame. They are told that the reason these losers are dragging America down is we have become too politically correct, too scared, too weak, to stop them. They are told Trump will pay their legal fees if they want to do what's necessary. "There used to be consequences," Trump sighs. The crowd knows what he's asking. Make Consequences Real Again.

This is ugly, but it is coherent. What Trump is offering is an explanation and a solution; an argument and an ideology. It is dangerous, and it is violent, but it is not confusing, and it is not unclear.

And this is why Trump is something different and more dangerous in American life. He is a man with an evident appetite for suppressing dissent with violence, a man who believes America's problem is that it's too gentle to its dissidents. Trump is making an argument for a politics backed by force, for a security service unleashed from "political correctness," for a country where protesting has consequences. The results are playing out before us, night after night, on our televisions.

If Trump wins and this country goes down a dark path, we will never be able to say we didn't see it coming. We will never be able to say we weren't warned
This is not politics as usual. It is unprecedented. Whatever the rudeness or disruptions of protesters, the GOP's presumptive presidential nominee has openly, expressly, and repeatedly called for his followers to engage in violent criminal repression of dissidents in their midst. In response, Republicans have mostly sniffed that yes, well, that's unfortunate, but of course these protesters are rude, so there's blame all around.

That is bullshit.

Despite multiple locked threads, the truth remains. Donald Trump is a brown-shirted demagogue, and his calls for politically motivated violence are abhorrent, however disruptive the protesters may be. If you guys can't see what's wrong here, then you're the problem.

Don't understand why Trump hasny been charged with felony disturbing piece, inciting violence, etc. People have responded to his call to punch people in their faces by literally pinching people in faces. That is incitement.
 
Exactly what I've been talking about with friends today. And the fact that some people on here are excusing this behavior, is frankly, disturbing. Rachel Maddow had a great piece with a timeline of Trump's greatest hits about violence and when the violence started breaking out. Sadly some folks can't add 2 plus 2.
 
Another question: why is Trump having his supporters raise their right hand in the traditional Nazi signal in support? Does this trouble anyone?
 
The pledges I have seen , you have your hand raised with your palm facing forward. In the pictures I have seen, and maybe there were just a few and that's what was circulated, the people have their arms straight out with palms facing down.
 
I've seen it both ways now, so assuming that was not his intent. But have seen a couple different pics of supporters doing it the other way since then.
 
650x366
 
I'm going to quote this link-studded Ezra Klein piece in support of the contention that Donald Trump's explicit calls for lawless violence are both dangerous and reprehensible:

During a rally in St. Louis Friday, Donald Trump lamented that "nobody wants to hurt each other anymore."

Yes, lamented.

The topic was protesters, and Trump's frustration was clear. "They're being politically correct the way they take them out," he sighed. "Protesters, they realize there are no consequences to protesting anymore. There used to be consequences. There are none anymore."

"Our country has to toughen up folks. We have to toughen up. These people are bringing us down. They are bringing us down. These people are so bad for our country, you have no idea."

This is more than an aside; this is the core of Trump's ideology. The protesters who interrupted his rally, the political correctness that kept the police from cracking their skulls, the press that takes the hippies' side — this is why America has stopped being great. We were strong, and we were tough, and we didn't take this kind of shit from anybody. And now we are weak, and we are scared, and we take this kind of shit from everybody.

How is a country that can't shut down a protester going to out-negotiate the Chinese? How is a country that that is so afraid of hurt feelings going to crush ISIS?

"We better toughen up, we better smarten up, and we better stop with this political correctness because it’s driving us down the tubes," Trump said.

Hours after that speech, 32 people were arrested and several were injured as Trump's supporters clashed with anti-Trump protesters and police. That night, Trump had to cancel a rally in Chicago for safety reasons.

Violence is scary. But violence-as-ideology is terrifying. And that's where Trump's campaign has gone.

"Knock the hell out of them. I promise you I will pay for the legal fees. I promise."

On February 1st, Trump made a promise to an angry crowd. You protect me, he said, and I'll protect you. "If you see someone getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them, would you? Seriously. Knock the hell out of them. I promise you I will pay for the legal fees. I promise."

No one threw a tomato at that rally. But a few weeks later, Donald Trump showed that he meant what he said — if you used force to protect him, he'd have your back.

Trump was leaving a rally when Michelle Fields, a reporter for the Trump-friendly Breitbart News, stepped forward to ask a question. Corey Lewandowski, Donald Trump's campaign manager, grabbed her by the arm and threw her out of the way. His grip was hard enough to leave bruises on her arm. The moment was witnessed by Ben Terris, a Washington Post reporter, and there's audio and video record of it.

There were simple ways Trump's campaign could have responded to this. Lewandowski could have apologized. He could have said Fields startled him, and he was protecting his candidate.

But this is the press we're talking about. "The most dishonest human beings on earth." No ****ing way Trump was going to back down to them.

"The accusation which has only been made in the media and never addressed directly with the campaign is entirely false," Trump's spokeswoman, Hope Hicks, said in a statement.

"Michelle Fields is an attention seeker," tweeted Lewandowski.

"This was, in my opinion, made up," Trump himself said. "Everybody said nothing happened. Perhaps she made the story up. I think that's what happened."

Donald Trump will pay your legal fees. He will believe your baldfaced lie. He is on your side against the protesters, the press, the losers who are bring America down. He knows things get rough sometimes. He's got your back.

"People who are following me are very passionate"

"The incidents are piling up," wrote Lucia Graves at the Guardian. "A Black Lives Matters protester was sucker-punched by a white bystander at a rally in Fayetteville, North Carolina. A young black woman was surrounded and shoved aggressively by a number of individuals at a rally in Louisville, Kentucky. A black protester was tackled, then punched and kicked by a group of men as he curled up on the ground in Birmingham, Alabama. Immigration activists were shoved and stripped of their signsby a crowd in Richmond, Virginia. A Latino protester was knocked down and kicked by a Trump supporter in Miami."

I would add another "incident" to Graves' list. Back in August, two young Trump supporters, Scott and Steve Leader, were charged in the beating of a homeless Mexican man. They found him sleeping outside a subway station and began hitting him with a metal pole.

According to police, Scott Leader justified the assault by telling them, "Donald Trump was right — all these illegals need to be deported."

Asked to react to the beating, Trump said he had no knowledge of it, which would have been fine. But he didn't stop there. "I will say that people who are following me are very passionate," Trump replied. "They love this country and they want this country to be great again."

"These are the people that are destroying our country"

The great mistake the media makes with Donald Trump is to pretend he has no ideology — that he's just a celebrity, a carnival barker, a reality star.

As my colleague Matt Yglesias has written, Trump does have an ideology. He does have an agenda. The core of Trumpism is "a revived and unapologetic American nationalism, which will stand for American interests abroad while defending the traditional conception of the American nation at home."

Like most nationalists, the emotional center of Trump's ideology is an Us vs. Them argument. "These are not the people who made our country great," Trump told the crowd in St. Louis. "We're going to make it great again, but these are not the people. These are the people that are destroying our country."

The Us must somehow defeat the Them — and the stakes are high, the future of the greatest country the world has ever known depends on the outcome. This is why nationalistic, Us vs.Them appeals lend themselves so easily and naturally to violence.

This is what Trump supporters hear at his rallies. They are told that America is no longer great. They are told who to blame. They are told that the reason these losers are dragging America down is we have become too politically correct, too scared, too weak, to stop them. They are told Trump will pay their legal fees if they want to do what's necessary. "There used to be consequences," Trump sighs. The crowd knows what he's asking. Make Consequences Real Again.

This is ugly, but it is coherent. What Trump is offering is an explanation and a solution; an argument and an ideology. It is dangerous, and it is violent, but it is not confusing, and it is not unclear.

And this is why Trump is something different and more dangerous in American life. He is a man with an evident appetite for suppressing dissent with violence, a man who believes America's problem is that it's too gentle to its dissidents. Trump is making an argument for a politics backed by force, for a security service unleashed from "political correctness," for a country where protesting has consequences. The results are playing out before us, night after night, on our televisions.

If Trump wins and this country goes down a dark path, we will never be able to say we didn't see it coming. We will never be able to say we weren't warned
This is not politics as usual. It is unprecedented. Whatever the rudeness or disruptions of protesters, the GOP's presumptive presidential nominee has openly, expressly, and repeatedly called for his followers to engage in violent criminal repression of dissidents in their midst. In response, Republicans have mostly sniffed that yes, well, that's unfortunate, but of course these protesters are rude, so there's blame all around.

That is bullshit.

Despite multiple locked threads, the truth remains. Donald Trump is a brown-shirted demagogue, and his calls for politically motivated violence are abhorrent, however disruptive the protesters may be. If you guys can't see what's wrong here, then you're the problem.

Ezra misses the critical point

The "protesters" aren't protesters. They are criminals. They committed a misdemeanor when they disrupted Trumps lawful use of a poblic facility. They committed another when they disobeyed a lawful order to leave the premises. They could have committed another crime when they entered the public facility with intent to commit a crime.

I'm not defending Trump here. What he said was petulant and juvenile. But this is what we get when we have similar remarks from the highest office holders in the land. Trump is the product of the political bullyism of the last decade or so, not the cause of it.
 
Ezra misses the critical point

The "protesters" aren't protesters. They are criminals. They committed a misdemeanor when they disrupted Trumps lawful use of a poblic facility. They committed another when they disobeyed a lawful order to leave the premises. They could have committed another crime when they entered the public facility with intent to commit a crime.

I'm not defending Trump here. What he said was petulant and juvenile. But this is what we get when we have similar remarks from the highest office holders in the land. Trump is the product of the political bullyism of the last decade or so, not the cause of it.
To Republican authoritarians, the real problem is rude (non-white) protesters, not Trump's calls for his (white) supporters to engage in lawless violence against them. Again, watch all the videos of Trump telling his supporters he'll pay their legal bills if they commit violent felonies. That's your party's likely presidential candidate. If you locate the "critical point" elsewhere, you're part of the Trump problem -- just as you were part of the Sarah Palin problem.
 
You left out 8 years of "us vs. them" hate mongering from your party leaders.

Nobody shows more hate here - or enjoys it more - than you.
Republicans predictably locate the source of their party's ugliness everywhere other than where it belongs -- with them. This is your party. This is your party's base. This is your party's likely presidential nominee. This is on you guys. Don't try to weasel out of it.
 
You didn't see the videos of BLM protesters disrupting Sanders rallies? Trump saw them. In the videos I linked he mocked Sanders for giving up the microphone to the protesters. That won't happen here, he assured the people he'd just urged to assault protesters at his rallies.

Again, just as you were part of the Palin problem, you're part of the Trump problem. You're defending your party's nativist, authoritarian, anti-intellectual know-nothingism.

What did Sanders accomplish by

Retreating with a whimper in the face of the BLM bullies? One thing Sanders did was to signal the bullies that their intimidation is legit free expression. It isn't. I give Trump credit for calling that out. If you have a better idea about to handle disruptive bullies, I'm all ears.
 
What did Sanders accomplish by

Retreating with a whimper in the face of the BLM bullies? One thing Sanders did was to signal the bullies that their intimidation is legit free expression. It isn't. I give Trump credit for calling that out. If you have a better idea about to handle disruptive bullies, I'm all ears.
First you had starbursts for Palin, now you're defending Tump. I think we've located the GOP's problem. It's GOP voters.
 
I'm pretty sure I know what my thread's about. Hint: It's about people like you.

Is it people like him though? I don't think that many on here are Trump supporters. Maybe Ladoga, but he'd support a squirrel with an elephant-shaped crown of his party told him to.

The uneducated (link below), lower-middle class white people (I don't think there are too many on this board) are the gullible fish that Trump has hooked. That being said, I do believe that many right-wing leaners on this board are overtly lying when they say they're not going to vote for Trump in the general. I believe in my heart of hearts that they'll talk themselves into it and are just too embarrassed to associate themselves, today, with Trump supporters.


http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-key-to-the-gop-race-the-diploma-divide/
 
I'm flattered

But that's pretty uninteresting. I'd rather you stick to Klein's "link-studded" piece.

Or maybe you are really wanting to say that I'm a stud.
You shouldn't be flattered. I'm arguing that people who'd support an ignoramus like Palin or defend a cartoon character like Trump are the source of the GOP's problems -- problems that manifest with your party's likely presidential candidate promising supporters that he'll indemnify them if they commit violent felonies at his rallies. That's what you're defending, albeit with your trademark dishonesty.
 
Maybe instead of being afraid of Trump supporters, we need to try to understand Trump supporters. Why do they feel like they do? Why do they feel that no one is listening to them?

Be a liberal Rock.
Look down and care about some little people.

Understanding how they came to support Trump and figuring out what to do about it are entirely different things. I think there have been several great treatises on how Trump gained a following of uneducated, lower middle class white people. But what's not clear is how to fight this insurgency and get his supporters to understand how to operate in the real world to actually improve their prospects.

As I've opined elsewhere, I think the largest contributor to this Trump phenomenon is a distrust in education, science, and an overall dumbing-down of the populace. When 42% of the citizens in the greatest country the world has ever seen believe that humanity is 10,000 years old, a guy like Trump, with his targeted messaging is bound to succeed.

It's head scratching, and I haven't the faintest clue how to fight it.
 
I think we can see wh
Exactly what I've been talking about with friends today. And the fact that some people on here are excusing this behavior, is frankly, disturbing. Rachel Maddow had a great piece with a timeline of Trump's greatest hits about violence and when the violence started breaking out. Sadly some folks can't add 2 plus 2.

I don't think anyone is excusing Trump's behavior. I know I've personally said multiple times it's inexcusable. That's not enough for Rock. He wants us to acknowledge that the "protestors" are justified in their behavior because of things Trump has said. That doesn't fly in civil society. It certainly isn't the standard I would have for myself or my kids.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mike41703
Trump, like all the other candidates, has the right to be heard without interruptions by protesters.

Saying that Trump is responsible for any uncivil behavior at his rallies because of his rabble rousing rhetoric is a poor attempt to justify bad behavior by unruly folks trying to disrupt the political process.

Let Trump make a fool of himself without interference. Interference which is probably more likely to help Trump than hurt him.
 
Trump, like all the other candidates, has the right to be heard without interruptions by protesters.

Saying that Trump is responsible for any uncivil behavior at his rallies because of his rabble rousing rhetoric is a poor attempt to justify bad behavior by unruly folks trying to disrupt the political process.

Let Trump make a fool of himself without interference. Interference which is probably more likely to help Trump than hurt him.
+1

Congrats, hoot. At least one poster form the left decided to be honest about this matter.
 
I don't think anyone is excusing Trump's behavior.
That's because you're not reading what your fellow Republicans are saying. The effort to shift blame for Trump's outrageous behavior to protesters is part of your party's problem. Your party's likely presidential candidate repeatedly exhorts your party's base to commit violent felonies against protesters, and the big takeaway for you guys is that protesters are rude.

What if Trump brought out dogs and fire hoses? How far will your false equivalence extend?

Alabama.jpg


ap6305030204-web.jpg
 
Understanding how they came to support Trump and figuring out what to do about it are entirely different things. I think there have been several great treatises on how Trump gained a following of uneducated, lower middle class white people. But what's not clear is how to fight this insurgency and get his supporters to understand how to operate in the real world to actually improve their prospects.

As I've opined elsewhere, I think the largest contributor to this Trump phenomenon is a distrust in education, science, and an overall dumbing-down of the populace. When 42% of the citizens in the greatest country the world has ever seen believe that humanity is 10,000 years old, a guy like Trump, with his targeted messaging is bound to succeed.

It's head scratching, and I haven't the faintest clue how to fight it.

I don't agree about distrust in education - I do agree we've dumbed it down, and gotten it way off track.

IMO people are just plain scared about the future.
Folks who got laid off fear it'll happen again.
People who got jobs at lower pay fear they won't get back.
Fold in terrorism, and it's a bad feeling.

People who tell them to understand why it happened and who caused it and who to blame might as well spit in their eye too.
Folks who tell them "I'm gonna make it stop and make it better" make them feel better about themselves.
It's not much more complicated than that.

Jobs and safety.
Less talk - more cattle.
 
Why is no one from the media or non-Trump campaigns calling for Bernie to tell his supporters to stop disrupting Trump rallies? If people, including Bernie, are really so concerned about someone getting hurt, seems like the sensible thing to do. All Bernlie does is say he didn't send them. Big whoopie. Call off the dogs, Bernie.

There's no doubt that a huge portion of the CHicago crowd was Bernheads:

 
But protesters are rude!

Trump Wants To Pay Legal Fees Of Man Who Sucker Punched Protester

Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump said Sunday that he has instructed his team to look into paying the legal fees of the man who sucker punched a black protester.

Trump said he doesn't condone violence.

"But I want to see. The man got carried away, he was 78 years old, he obviously loves his country, and maybe he doesn't like seeing what's happening to the country," Trump said.

NBC "Meet the Press" host Chuck Todd asked him to clarify if that meant he would pay for the legal fees.

"Well, I'm going to look at it. I'm going to see, you know, what was behind this because it was a strange event," Trump said. "I've actually instructed my people to look into it, yes."

John McGraw, 78, was arrested and charged last week with assault and battery and disorderly conduct after allegedly punching a protester in the face at a rally in North Carolina as the protester was being escorted out of the building.

This is the likely Republican candidate for President. And the Very Serious People tsk, tsk, tsk about rude protesters.
 
But protesters are rude!

Trump Wants To Pay Legal Fees Of Man Who Sucker Punched Protester

Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump said Sunday that he has instructed his team to look into paying the legal fees of the man who sucker punched a black protester.

Trump said he doesn't condone violence.

"But I want to see. The man got carried away, he was 78 years old, he obviously loves his country, and maybe he doesn't like seeing what's happening to the country," Trump said.

NBC "Meet the Press" host Chuck Todd asked him to clarify if that meant he would pay for the legal fees.

"Well, I'm going to look at it. I'm going to see, you know, what was behind this because it was a strange event," Trump said. "I've actually instructed my people to look into it, yes."

John McGraw, 78, was arrested and charged last week with assault and battery and disorderly conduct after allegedly punching a protester in the face at a rally in North Carolina as the protester was being escorted out of the building.

This is the likely Republican candidate for President. And the Very Serious People tsk, tsk, tsk about rude protesters.
Sounds like Tom Crean:)
 
Ezra misses the critical point

The "protesters" aren't protesters. They are criminals. They committed a misdemeanor when they disrupted Trumps lawful use of a poblic facility. They committed another when they disobeyed a lawful order to leave the premises. They could have committed another crime when they entered the public facility with intent to commit a crime.

I'm not defending Trump here. What he said was petulant and juvenile. But this is what we get when we have similar remarks from the highest office holders in the land. Trump is the product of the political bullyism of the last decade or so, not the cause of it.
The False Equivalence Argument is a Red Herring

put forth by liberals to perpetuate their narrative about Trump. The actual truth is that two wrongs don't make a right. The disrupters are breaking the law and Trump should hold the high ground in spite of their criminal behavior. Liberals, of course, want to focus on Trump, with the absurd schoolyard logic that because he got caught yelling, he's guilty for the prior-committed crime.

Liberals are not raising the dialogue here, they're just trying to win an election at all costs. Bernie Sanders claims he's not inciting his supporters to disrupt Trump instead of asking them not to disrupt. Trump has no sway over Bernie supporters of course, that's on Bernie. By deflecting this onto Trump and silently condoning his "protesters" behavior, Bernie is actually condoning their misdeeds and when one of those protesters throws a punch, Bernie is indirectly inciting that violence. Nice dodge, Bern.

We'll see how honest Bernie will be on this one. His honesty grade so far has been so-so.
 
We've been explaining why he gets traction. You keep ignoring us.

It's pretty hilarious. Republicons have spent decades creating people that would support someone like Trump and wonder why they can't just fix it in one election cycle. Luckily for them, IMO, after this cycle is finished they won't have much of a party left to worry about fixing. When Rafael Eduardo Cruz Jr is your best option, you're out of options. It's like choosing between a bullet to the head or three to the chest. Just depends on how quickly you want to get to the result.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DrHoops
We've been explaining why he gets traction. You keep ignoring us.

He gets traction because great intellectuals ignore his supporters - think they have no voice or issue worthy of being heard.

The lower-middle class working man has no voice anymore.
He's been told to shut up and buy the lies quietly.

Trump tells them what they want to hear.
And you act surprised that it works?
 
Trump, like all the other candidates, has the right to be heard without interruptions by protesters.

Saying that Trump is responsible for any uncivil behavior at his rallies because of his rabble rousing rhetoric is a poor attempt to justify bad behavior by unruly folks trying to disrupt the political process.

Let Trump make a fool of himself without interference. Interference which is probably more likely to help Trump than hurt him.
I'm recalling Tea Party members interrupting and shouting down, and eventually causing meetings about Health Care to cancel. Anyone else recall that? Those people called themselves Patriots. I bet these same people are calling these kids thugs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Marvin the Martian
Would Trump have a civil case against disrupters, if wanted to pay the lawyer fees?

I could probably state a theoretical

claim on behalf of Trump. But he'd never win.

But if he was hit by a thrown tomato, that's a different case.
 
He gets traction because great intellectuals ignore his supporters - think they have no voice or issue worthy of being heard.

The lower-middle class working man has no voice anymore.
He's been told to shut up and buy the lies quietly.

Trump tells them what they want to hear.
And you act surprised that it works?
I'm not acting surprised. I was surprised, I suppose, because I wanted to give GOP voters the benefit of the doubt. But I'm well past that now.
 
Do you literally ever say anything that makes sense?
Trump would not answer the question that he would pay the legal fees, Said he would have to review it. I thought that sounded like CTC saying he would have to look at the film
 
I'm not acting surprised. I was surprised, I suppose, because I wanted to give GOP voters the benefit of the doubt. But I'm well past that now.

Says the guy who thinks

Hillary is not using skin color politics to defeat Sanders.When you get right down to it, the vast majority of ALL voters cast their ballots for reasons you think are dumb or worse.
 
Is it people like him though? I don't think that many on here are Trump supporters. Maybe Ladoga, but he'd support a squirrel with an elephant-shaped crown of his party told him to.

The uneducated (link below), lower-middle class white people (I don't think there are too many on this board) are the gullible fish that Trump has hooked. That being said, I do believe that many right-wing leaners on this board are overtly lying when they say they're not going to vote for Trump in the general. I believe in my heart of hearts that they'll talk themselves into it and are just too embarrassed to associate themselves, today, with Trump supporters.


http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-key-to-the-gop-race-the-diploma-divide/
Since you mentioned the old guy - I haven't said here or anywhere who I am voting for primary (which may matter) nor general. I am considering (gulp) asking for the Democrat Primary ballot to vote for Bernie as an effort to defeat Clinton. Considering. So, thus far, I am not a Trump supporter. I am watching the left rant and rave on this board. They have no idea what to do about their socialist nor their criminal candidate. Its interesting watching
 
ADVERTISEMENT