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Trump is the lyingest liar in modern political history

No Dave, again you are living in your own little bubble. You can fact check last night's speech. You can follow the journalist I mentioned yesterday that tracks Donald's daily lies, you can check Politifacts, that shows that Hillary was the most honest of all the candidates running. Partisan claim beyond belief is someone that refuses, just absolutely refuses to look at every single piece of evidence and still denies the facts. That's you, Dave.
Are you really saying she is not lying about the emails and her intentional deleting of the same. Are you saying that the President did not use a pseudonym to communicate with HRC on her server (confidential). Are you saying she told the truth about landing "under sniper fire" in Bosnia. Are you saying we don't already have equal pay for equal work laws on the books. Are you saying the HRC did not call the Trans-Pacific Partner the "Gold Standard" of trade deals. On and on and on!
 
"And all of that happened under W's watch. That's not even debatable."

Really? Iran stopped all activities related to its nuclear weapons development program the day President Obama took office? That is some very exciting news there. Methinks you need one of those factcheck organizations to take a look at your statement. Has to be a few Pinocchios involved. ;)

Ok. A little hyperbole on my part.

Let's just say that the development was ongoing- and it neared completion during W's term. It's a long term process, and nothing the US had done to that point had really stopped it from happening. The sanctions helped slow it, no doubt.

Fair enough?
 
Are you really saying she is not lying about the emails and her intentional deleting of the same. Are you saying that the President did not use a pseudonym to communicate with HRC on her server (confidential). Are you saying she told the truth about landing "under sniper fire" in Bosnia. Are you saying we don't already have equal pay for equal work laws on the books. Are you saying the HRC did not call the Trans-Pacific Partner the "Gold Standard" of trade deals. On and on and on!
Nope, as I've said multiple times and showed you multiple proof, I'm saying she lies less than anyone else that was running for president. Why is it so easy for you to believe every silly meme you see, but dismiss every proof or fact that goes against what you have predetermined?
 
In another thread one of our esteemed moderators claimed that HRC is as big a liar as Trump, or perhaps even worse. This isn't merely wrong. It's ludicrous. For this very simple reason:

Trump is by far the most brazen serial liar in modern political history.
As CNN notes, major media outlets are finally calling him on it. Among other things, Politico fact-checked everything HRC and Trump said over the last week and found that Trump lies, misleads, or exaggerates about every three minutes:

The conclusion is inescapable: Trump’s mishandling of facts and propensity for exaggeration so greatly exceed Clinton’s as to make the comparison almost ludicrous.
Trump lies so frequently and so brazenly that the fact-checkers simply can't keep up with him -- he fills the zone with so many lies that few draw any significant coverage:

Daniel Dale, a reporter for the Toronto Star, has taken recently to posting a list on Twitter of all the provably false statements he hears from Trump on the campaign trail each day. It might not be technically fair to call all of these statements “lies” — it’s possible that Trump himself believes them to be true. But at a certain point, his callous disregard for facts crosses the line into criminal neglect.

On many days, Dale counts at least 10 falsehoods. On one day, he counted 18.

Dale . . . decided to tally objectively false things Donald Trump said from September 15-17, and September 19-24. The only day when Trump didn't lie: September 23rd, when he didn't say anything in public at all.

Even more alarming, while Trump often repeats some of his lies from one day to the next, most of the lies Dale recorded were just told once. Over the nine days Dale’s recorded so far, Donald Trump has told a total of 64 unique lies.

Those lies range from the small — like who wrote the song “The Snake” that he likes to recite at his rallies — to the substantial — like saying on four separate occasions that his tax plan would cut taxes on the working class, and three times saying that Hillary Clinton would substantially increase “your taxes.”

. . . The Washington Post, doing a qualitative analysis of a week of Trump lies, concluded “Trump has nevertheless revealed himself to be a candidate who at times seems uniquely undeterred by facts.” The headline on the front page of Sunday’s Los Angeles Times read “Scope of Trump’s lies unmatched”; in the article, author Michael Finnegan argued that “Never in modern presidential politics has a major candidate made false statements as routinely as Trump has.”

In this context, the analysis of the New York Times seems fairly conservative: They only tallied 31 Trump lies over the last week.

The Times’ analysis ignored smaller lies and instead focused on the lies that “bolstered a powerful and self-aggrandizing narrative depicting him as a heroic savior for a nation menaced from every direction” — creating what Republican strategist Mike Murphy called “an unreality bubble.”

If you try to dive into the reasons Trump lies, you’ve already lost. It grants his lies the dignity of a strategy. The truth is that, by all appearances, Trump seems to lie whenever it suits him.

This is why, because Trump lies so nonchalantly and broadly, the practice of tallying Trump’s lies can end up being weirdly counterproductive. The more conservative tallies make Trump seem relatively honest; the more comprehensive ones just seem like numbers on a page.​

But this doesn't trouble Trump's supporters even a little bit. Instead, they imagine that Clinton is even worse:

Even though fact-checkers deploy their forces on Trump regularly, he never apologizes or retracts. Calling out his lies doesn’t make his supporters any less loyal to him. People consistently find him more “honest and trustworthy” than his opponent. He still has a reasonable chance of becoming the 45th president of the United States.
Hillary Clinton is disliked and distrusted, but she's a normal candidate who's fit to serve by any conventional measure. Trump, on the other hand, is the most obviously unfit candidate any major political party has ever nominated in the entire history of the United States. In particular, he seems an almost pathological liar. Yet somehow Hillary is the dishonest one.

I wonder how ostensibly sentient humans have become so utterly disconnected from objective reality.
If you were to take campaign promises and then measure end results at the end of a Presidency, Barack Obama is one of the biggest liars ever.

Transparency, no insurance mandate, NSA spying, going after fat cats on Wall St, helping the middle class and working class, are all examples of the BS he sold.
 
Nope, as I've said multiple times and showed you multiple proof, I'm saying she lies less than anyone else that was running for president. Why is it so easy for you to believe every silly meme you see, but dismiss every proof or fact that goes against what you have predetermined?
I have repeatedly said Trump lies I guess I am not in the mindset to rate the quality of lying.
 
If you were to take campaign promises and then measure end results at the end of a Presidency, Barack Obama is one of the biggest liars ever.

Transparency, no insurance mandate, NSA spying, going after fat cats on Wall St, helping the middle class and working class, are all examples of the BS he sold.
You forgot all the issues with Guantanamo
 
If you were to take campaign promises and then measure end results at the end of a Presidency, Barack Obama is one of the biggest liars ever.

Transparency, no insurance mandate, NSA spying, going after fat cats on Wall St, helping the middle class and working class, are all examples of the BS he sold.
Said the prat.
 
If you were to take campaign promises and then measure end results at the end of a Presidency, Barack Obama is one of the biggest liars ever.

Transparency, no insurance mandate, NSA spying, going after fat cats on Wall St, helping the middle class and working class, are all examples of the BS he sold.
Anecdotal partisan talking points passed off as actual statistics.

This is why we can't have nice things.
 
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talk about a pathetic thread.


that said, and as someone else earlier remarked, it's the repercussions of an untruth that really matter.

Bush flat out lied to take us into war.

pretty hard to top that in the totally despicable behavior dept.

truth wasn't real present during Vietnam either.


anyone accepting that less than half hearted soundbite from Trump as proof he was for the Iraq war, is being disingenuous with yourself and everyone else.

while i don't believe everything he says, i do believe he was against that war.

HRC voted for it, so no way to explain that away.

neither one impress me much as people, so it's just about policy, vision, and court appointments at this point.

if truthfulness is what you're looking for, might as well stay home.

if it's about the one with the most integrity, we're in deep sht.

the nation is displeased with the 2 choices we're given.

the more we hear from them and the better we get to know them, the greater that displeasure grows.

i guess if we wanted integrity, sound judgement, vision, and foresight, we would have nominated Bernie.

but the women voters and the corps that run the DNC wanted Hillary.

the women because she's a woman.

the corps, because they know she's for sale, and they're the ones doing the buying..
 
I dare all of you who don't think Hillary is the biggest liar to ever run for public office to watch this video.



It's only 13 minutes but you could go on for hours. I almost feel somewhat sorry for her at this point. She honestly doesn't know she's lying like during the debate where she said she never called TPP "the gold standard" which she clearly did. To her the truth is whatever she says it is.
 
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talk about a pathetic thread.


that said, and as someone else earlier remarked, it's the repercussions of an untruth that really matter.

Bush flat out lied to take us into war.

pretty hard to top that in the totally despicable behavior dept.

truth wasn't real present during Vietnam either.


anyone accepting that less than half hearted soundbite from Trump as proof he was for the Iraq war, is being disingenuous with yourself and everyone else.

while i don't believe everything he says, i do believe he was against that war.

HRC voted for it, so no way to explain that away.

neither one impress me much as people, so it's just about policy, vision, and court appointments at this point.

if truthfulness is what you're looking for, might as well stay home.

if it's about the one with the most integrity, we're in deep sht.

the nation is displeased with the 2 choices we're given.

the more we hear from them and the better we get to know them, the greater that displeasure grows.

i guess if we wanted integrity, sound judgement, vision, and foresight, we would have nominated Bernie.

but the women voters and the corps that run the DNC wanted Hillary.

the women because she's a woman.

the corps, because they know she's for sale, and they're the ones doing the buying..
A pathetic thread is made more pathetic by yet another unreadable post by you. Thanks for that.
 
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I dare all of you who don't think Hillary is the biggest liar to ever run for public office to watch this video.



It's only 13 minutes but you could go on for hours. I almost feel somewhat sorry for her at this point. She honestly doesn't know she's lying like during the debate where she said she never called TPP "the gold standard" which she clearly did. To her the truth is whatever she says it is.

that video kind of reminded me of this movie scene.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emKcqBql4rs
 
I dare all of you who don't think Hillary is the biggest liar to ever run for public office to watch this video.



It's only 13 minutes but you could go on for hours. I almost feel somewhat sorry for her at this point. She honestly doesn't know she's lying like during the debate where she said she never called TPP "the gold standard" which she clearly did. To her the truth is whatever she says it is.
Except for the fact that you could make a video like this every single day of the Donald.
 
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In another thread one of our esteemed moderators claimed that HRC is as big a liar as Trump, or perhaps even worse. This isn't merely wrong. It's ludicrous. For this very simple reason:

Trump is by far the most brazen serial liar in modern political history.
As CNN notes, major media outlets are finally calling him on it. Among other things, Politico fact-checked everything HRC and Trump said over the last week and found that Trump lies, misleads, or exaggerates about every three minutes:

The conclusion is inescapable: Trump’s mishandling of facts and propensity for exaggeration so greatly exceed Clinton’s as to make the comparison almost ludicrous.
Trump lies so frequently and so brazenly that the fact-checkers simply can't keep up with him -- he fills the zone with so many lies that few draw any significant coverage:

Daniel Dale, a reporter for the Toronto Star, has taken recently to posting a list on Twitter of all the provably false statements he hears from Trump on the campaign trail each day. It might not be technically fair to call all of these statements “lies” — it’s possible that Trump himself believes them to be true. But at a certain point, his callous disregard for facts crosses the line into criminal neglect.

On many days, Dale counts at least 10 falsehoods. On one day, he counted 18.

Dale . . . decided to tally objectively false things Donald Trump said from September 15-17, and September 19-24. The only day when Trump didn't lie: September 23rd, when he didn't say anything in public at all.

Even more alarming, while Trump often repeats some of his lies from one day to the next, most of the lies Dale recorded were just told once. Over the nine days Dale’s recorded so far, Donald Trump has told a total of 64 unique lies.

Those lies range from the small — like who wrote the song “The Snake” that he likes to recite at his rallies — to the substantial — like saying on four separate occasions that his tax plan would cut taxes on the working class, and three times saying that Hillary Clinton would substantially increase “your taxes.”

. . . The Washington Post, doing a qualitative analysis of a week of Trump lies, concluded “Trump has nevertheless revealed himself to be a candidate who at times seems uniquely undeterred by facts.” The headline on the front page of Sunday’s Los Angeles Times read “Scope of Trump’s lies unmatched”; in the article, author Michael Finnegan argued that “Never in modern presidential politics has a major candidate made false statements as routinely as Trump has.”

In this context, the analysis of the New York Times seems fairly conservative: They only tallied 31 Trump lies over the last week.

The Times’ analysis ignored smaller lies and instead focused on the lies that “bolstered a powerful and self-aggrandizing narrative depicting him as a heroic savior for a nation menaced from every direction” — creating what Republican strategist Mike Murphy called “an unreality bubble.”

If you try to dive into the reasons Trump lies, you’ve already lost. It grants his lies the dignity of a strategy. The truth is that, by all appearances, Trump seems to lie whenever it suits him.

This is why, because Trump lies so nonchalantly and broadly, the practice of tallying Trump’s lies can end up being weirdly counterproductive. The more conservative tallies make Trump seem relatively honest; the more comprehensive ones just seem like numbers on a page.​

But this doesn't trouble Trump's supporters even a little bit. Instead, they imagine that Clinton is even worse:

Even though fact-checkers deploy their forces on Trump regularly, he never apologizes or retracts. Calling out his lies doesn’t make his supporters any less loyal to him. People consistently find him more “honest and trustworthy” than his opponent. He still has a reasonable chance of becoming the 45th president of the United States.
Hillary Clinton is disliked and distrusted, but she's a normal candidate who's fit to serve by any conventional measure. Trump, on the other hand, is the most obviously unfit candidate any major political party has ever nominated in the entire history of the United States. In particular, he seems an almost pathological liar. Yet somehow Hillary is the dishonest one.

I wonder how ostensibly sentient humans have become so utterly disconnected from objective reality.
Well sir I guess you got me. I can't support my claim. I acknowledge Trump to be the superior liar in volume. I haven't devoted untold hours to counting and sorting out what comments are within the normal patterns of political speech and which are gotcha points by those who are his detractors and the truly terrible lies.

Having said that your following comment doesn't apply to me: But this doesn't trouble Trump's supporters even a little bit. Instead, they imagine that Clinton is even worse:

I don't support Trump and never have. His lies and half-truths don't bother me as much as some of his policy statements, his temperament, shady dealings, etc..................I have repeatedly criticized him in about the same terms as have you. The fact I say similar things about Hillary in a negative fashion is it appears unacceptable. I don't think Trump to be a racist but this doesn't qualify him to get my vote or support.

I could care less who lies the most. They are both proven liars and both are dishonest, untrustworthy and breach the public trust. They are both interested in only themselves and those close to them and will do about anything to achieve their goals. You mentioned the WPost and NYT. Back when Hillary was our first lady and article in the NYT stated: Americans of all political persuasions are coming to the sad realization that our First Lady — a woman of undoubted talents who was a role model for many in her generation — is a congenital liar.

One is a pathological liar and one is an congenital liar who has trouble recalling things when challenged.This lack of recall is simply a method of avoiding being caught lying.

Along this road we have seen her record and it is a trail of cover-ups, misstatements, dissemblings as you once put it, half-truths and outright lies. If the email scandal says anything, it simply shows that the more things change the more they stay the same. She will lie repeatedly to the American people and Congress and will do about anything to keep her arse covered even if it hurts our national security. The rules that apply to us doesn't apply to her in her mind and she has proven this often.

It's truly sad that a candidate who is disliked and distrusted by the majority and who has repeatedly lied with a history of a trail of cover-ups, misstatements, dissemblings, half-truths and outright lies is considered a "normal candidate" fit to serve by any conventional measure. Hillary I guess by reaching this conventional measure is excused for the lies and dishonesty. This certainly makes our measure look pathetic and sad. But then again this is in part what is wrong with this country. Our elected representatives no long serve us.

Personally I can't see why anyone with such disdain for Trump could pull the lever for Hillary and go out of their way to justify it while ridiculing and damning those supporting Trump so vehemently. I certainly can't pull the lever for either. Like a remark you made I will expand it a little to include Hillary and question how ostensibly sentient humans have become so utterly disconnected from objective reality by supporting her. If it applies to one it does to both.

But I guess how could anyone not trust a lady named after Sir Edmund Hillary the climber or a lady who would risk her life under sniper fire in Bosnia as first lady, and knows how important security is during these times and acts responsibly to protect our interest as Sec of State.

They both are liars. Quantity has little to do with it IMHO but I guess for some it's important.
 
Well sir I guess you got me. I can't support my claim. I acknowledge Trump to be the superior liar in volume. I haven't devoted untold hours to counting and sorting out what comments are within the normal patterns of political speech and which are gotcha points by those who are his detractors and the truly terrible lies.

Having said that your following comment doesn't apply to me: But this doesn't trouble Trump's supporters even a little bit. Instead, they imagine that Clinton is even worse:

I don't support Trump and never have. His lies and half-truths don't bother me as much as some of his policy statements, his temperament, shady dealings, etc..................I have repeatedly criticized him in about the same terms as have you. The fact I say similar things about Hillary in a negative fashion is it appears unacceptable. I don't think Trump to be a racist but this doesn't qualify him to get my vote or support.

I could care less who lies the most. They are both proven liars and both are dishonest, untrustworthy and breach the public trust. They are both interested in only themselves and those close to them and will do about anything to achieve their goals. You mentioned the WPost and NYT. Back when Hillary was our first lady and article in the NYT stated: Americans of all political persuasions are coming to the sad realization that our First Lady — a woman of undoubted talents who was a role model for many in her generation — is a congenital liar.

One is a pathological liar and one is an congenital liar who has trouble recalling things when challenged.This lack of recall is simply a method of avoiding being caught lying.

Along this road we have seen her record and it is a trail of cover-ups, misstatements, dissemblings as you once put it, half-truths and outright lies. If the email scandal says anything, it simply shows that the more things change the more they stay the same. She will lie repeatedly to the American people and Congress and will do about anything to keep her arse covered even if it hurts our national security. The rules that apply to us doesn't apply to her in her mind and she has proven this often.

It's truly sad that a candidate who is disliked and distrusted by the majority and who has repeatedly lied with a history of a trail of cover-ups, misstatements, dissemblings, half-truths and outright lies is considered a "normal candidate" fit to serve by any conventional measure. Hillary I guess by reaching this conventional measure is excused for the lies and dishonesty. This certainly makes our measure look pathetic and sad. But then again this is in part what is wrong with this country. Our elected representatives no long serve us.

Personally I can't see why anyone with such disdain for Trump could pull the lever for Hillary and go out of their way to justify it while ridiculing and damning those supporting Trump so vehemently. I certainly can't pull the lever for either. Like a remark you made I will expand it a little to include Hillary and question how ostensibly sentient humans have become so utterly disconnected from objective reality by supporting her. If it applies to one it does to both.

But I guess how could anyone not trust a lady named after Sir Edmund Hillary the climber or a lady who would risk her life under sniper fire in Bosnia as first lady, and knows how important security is during these times and acts responsibly to protect our interest as Sec of State.

They both are liars. Quantity has little to do with it IMHO but I guess for some it's important.
Am I the only Trump supporter on the board?
 
Well sir I guess you got me. I can't support my claim.
That's where you should have stopped, because the torrent of words that follows is mere argle bargle. Meanwhile:

Donald Trump is the most unusual politician we’ve ever fact-checked, given the sheer volume of his misstatements, falsehoods and unreliable statistics. Trump is on track to earn more Four-Pinocchio ratings by himself than all other Republican politicians (or Democrats) combined in the past three years.
Your false equivalence is ludicrous.
 
Well sir I guess you got me. I can't support my claim. I acknowledge Trump to be the superior liar in volume. I haven't devoted untold hours to counting and sorting out what comments are within the normal patterns of political speech and which are gotcha points by those who are his detractors and the truly terrible lies.

Having said that your following comment doesn't apply to me: But this doesn't trouble Trump's supporters even a little bit. Instead, they imagine that Clinton is even worse:

I don't support Trump and never have. His lies and half-truths don't bother me as much as some of his policy statements, his temperament, shady dealings, etc..................I have repeatedly criticized him in about the same terms as have you. The fact I say similar things about Hillary in a negative fashion is it appears unacceptable. I don't think Trump to be a racist but this doesn't qualify him to get my vote or support.

I could care less who lies the most. They are both proven liars and both are dishonest, untrustworthy and breach the public trust. They are both interested in only themselves and those close to them and will do about anything to achieve their goals. You mentioned the WPost and NYT. Back when Hillary was our first lady and article in the NYT stated: Americans of all political persuasions are coming to the sad realization that our First Lady — a woman of undoubted talents who was a role model for many in her generation — is a congenital liar.

One is a pathological liar and one is an congenital liar who has trouble recalling things when challenged.This lack of recall is simply a method of avoiding being caught lying.

Along this road we have seen her record and it is a trail of cover-ups, misstatements, dissemblings as you once put it, half-truths and outright lies. If the email scandal says anything, it simply shows that the more things change the more they stay the same. She will lie repeatedly to the American people and Congress and will do about anything to keep her arse covered even if it hurts our national security. The rules that apply to us doesn't apply to her in her mind and she has proven this often.

It's truly sad that a candidate who is disliked and distrusted by the majority and who has repeatedly lied with a history of a trail of cover-ups, misstatements, dissemblings, half-truths and outright lies is considered a "normal candidate" fit to serve by any conventional measure. Hillary I guess by reaching this conventional measure is excused for the lies and dishonesty. This certainly makes our measure look pathetic and sad. But then again this is in part what is wrong with this country. Our elected representatives no long serve us.

Personally I can't see why anyone with such disdain for Trump could pull the lever for Hillary and go out of their way to justify it while ridiculing and damning those supporting Trump so vehemently. I certainly can't pull the lever for either. Like a remark you made I will expand it a little to include Hillary and question how ostensibly sentient humans have become so utterly disconnected from objective reality by supporting her. If it applies to one it does to both.

But I guess how could anyone not trust a lady named after Sir Edmund Hillary the climber or a lady who would risk her life under sniper fire in Bosnia as first lady, and knows how important security is during these times and acts responsibly to protect our interest as Sec of State.

They both are liars. Quantity has little to do with it IMHO but I guess for some it's important.

The difference for me (because I'm not happy about the choices, but understand one is far worse than the other) is that Trump lies automatically- without any kind of forethought or conscience. And the lies always (yes, always) are an attempt to pump up Trump in some way. It completely fits in with his inability to concede a mistake or apologize. He is simply incapable of being inferior or wrong in ANY way- no matter how small.

That type of mindset disqualifies him from the office, IMO. In other words, you can't separate lying from who he is. More than anything else, he is a liar. It defines him.

And Hillary has has scandals- and has tried to "lawyer" her way out of them. Much like her husband did. However, she doesn't lie every time she opens her mouth. Trump has a plethora of scandals- and they all point to dishonesty. Every. Single. One.

So, to recap, both have shown to be dishonest at times. The difference is, Hillary has done many good things, and does then for benefits that benefit others. Admittedly they do benefit her as well. That's why I'm not crazy about her as an option.

However, Trump only has one goal in mind- for everything. And that's to be the alpha and the omega. His sole purpose in lying is to inflate his ego. It's really that simple with him. He's got a freakin' legitimate mental disorder (he's a classic DSM 4 definition of a narcissist). And, he's completely unpredictable, and takes every slight personally- even if it's legitimate criticism or deserved. And even if it's not a slight at all- but because it doesn't fit his perception of how he should be viewed, he treats it as if someone insulted his mother. It's an insane approach, especially given what being a president entails.

And I can't believe I just defended the lesser of two evils between two liars. This election sucks.
 
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