Trump fires Comey
- Thread starter UncleMark
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A lot of interesting financial history there. Most of it is 10 or 12 years old and much of that stuff is about transactions and activities not involving Trump. Nobody denies that Trump has been an international player in real estate and development. The democratic allegations are about collusion by Putin and the Russian government. There is no evidence of that. I stand by the notion that this whole collusion thing is a sudden product of the election. If Hillary won, any alleged collusion would have been just as wrong and just as criminal, but nobody would give a rip. Of course if Hillary won, there would be different players in the collusion meme.
Trump is "an international player in real estate and development" is NOT what the articles detail...they detail a long term pattern of close dealings with criminals, despots and their money laundering couriers with a particular expertise in the Russian and Eastern European variety. And here from Forbes...why things are considerably worse that you seem to understand or care about.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/melikk...-drama-its-worse-than-you-think/#dfda138dfda1
The FBI started looking into Trump campaign associates and their ties to Russia last July.
I know, I know..."there's no evidence". There was "no evidence" that Gacy killed all those people until they found the bodies under his house. You wanna guess how they found all that evidence? I'll give you a hint...it rhymes with "investigation".
That guy needs help.
In my experience, after years of reporting on populist regimes from Turkey to Russia to Eastern Europe, I'd say that Comey thereby delivered a stealthy ultimatum. That is to say, on thorny issues populist regimes like to create endless indecision masked by distraction and fog while they consolidate power. The Trumpsters expected Comey to temporize, keep making contradictory noises, pursue Hillary on this and Obama on that, while intermittently letting steam out of the Russia matter. They gave him some leads. Example: Jason Chaffetz's allegations that Obama's people ordered wiretapping of Trump Tower. But Comey wouldn't play along. And finally he nudged them to act.
The Justice Department, for its part, firmly denies that Comey made any demand asking them for extra help on Kremlingate. Stay focused on this specific point for a moment. It speaks volumes, for this is how bureaucracies start to eat each other with a populist at the helm inciting deliberate crossfires. Back in January, I wrote a column entitled “What The Trump Era Will Feel Like: Clues From Populist Regimes Around The World”. In it, I said the following:
He sounds like he is writing a cheap paperback political thriller. Doesn't he know that Andrew McCabe denied the news about Comey asking for more resources. McCabe is the last person in the FBI who would be motivated to help Trump.The Justice Department, for its part, firmly denies that Comey made any demand asking them for extra help on Kremlingate. Stay focused on this specific point for a moment. It speaks volumes, for this is how bureaucracies start to eat each other with a populist at the helm inciting deliberate crossfires. Back in January, I wrote a column entitled “What The Trump Era Will Feel Like: Clues From Populist Regimes Around The World”. In it, I said the following:
Already the intelligence services and Mr. Trump have squared off. Think about what Trump will do. He will appoint new chiefs. They will fight with their rank and file. He will try to downsize and defund. There will be pushback.
Yes, I didn't even mention all the WORDDAILYNET articles my mother shares on Facebook....
Nonsense. As I said it's been out there since long before November. You remind me of a river in Egypt. Deep deep denial.
The crime is obvious...the question is what role Trump played in it. The question is what other illegal relationships between Trump and Russia will emerge. It seems that some on the right would be entirely comfortable if Putin himself were to be installed as emperor of America. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...confederate-statue-virginia-article-1.3164235
White supremacist Richard Spencer takes selfie at torch wielding rally protesting removal of confederate monument where they were chanting "Russia is our friend"
What is the obvious crime for Trump or his campaign with respect to Russia trying to influence the election?The crime is obvious...the question is what role Trump played in it. The question is what other illegal relationships between Trump and Russia will emerge. It seems that some on the right would be entirely comfortable if Putin himself were to be installed as emperor of America. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...confederate-statue-virginia-article-1.3164235
White supremacist Richard Spencer takes selfie at torch wielding rally protesting removal of confederate monument where they were chanting "Russia is our friend"
What is the obvious crime if someone (any actual member of the campaign or even Trump himself) in the campaign coordinated or colluded with Russia's influence efforts in some way?
I ask because I'm not certain and neither are legal scholars (except that treason is not possible), and they are opining that there are no crimes to possible campaign finance violations if they colluded with Russia on any of the fake news stories and those amounted to campaign commercials in some way. You say it's obvious, but they don't so what is the obvious crime?
The Russians engaged in at least some criminal hacking activities. Any collusion between the campaign and those actors opens up possible conspiracy charges.
The crime is the hacking of the DNC. Did the Trump campaign aid or abet that effort i.e., collude in the crime? The investigation so far has not shown that they did. In the process of investigating connections between Trump and the Russians will we discover that Trump has committed many crimes in consort with Russian oligarchs and mobsters...money laundering being the most obvious? Given that those investigations had been proceeding even prior to the election on independent grounds it seems altogether likely to me. Laurence Tribe is calling for impeachment on the basis of what is known already and Trump's behavior with respect to the Comey removal. Also there is the case of foreign governments essentially bribing Trump through emoulements https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...fb9411d332c_story.html?utm_term=.1cf8e29b15ec
Obviously hacking is a crime by the Russians. The question is what is the crime committed by anyone in the campaign for that? Don't see how it's possible for the campaign to assist the Russians with that - apparently it was one of the simplest kinds of hacks and they caught a fish with a spearfishing email.
There is no obvious crime for the Russian interference in the election. There could be a possible crime if there was coordination or collusion by someone (or more than one) in the campaign in possible conspiracy or violation of campaign finance laws.
I was focusing on the subject at hand - like Goat wants us to.
However, of course there could be those other crimes if they pulled the string long enough, but I'm afraid you might be hoping for far more than is likely to happen.
The hacking is on topic. It was directly related to the election interference, since the voter info hacked from DNC was used to target people for fake news. That's where the trouble comes in for Trump's people: if they are engaged in any relationship with Russian actors, and those same actors are also involved in the hacking in any way, that immediately turns into a big mess.Obviously hacking is a crime by the Russians. The question is what is the crime committed by anyone in the campaign for that? Don't see how it's possible for the campaign to assist the Russians with that - apparently it was one of the simplest kinds of hacks and they caught a fish with a spearfishing email.
There is no obvious crime for the Russian interference in the election. There could be a possible crime if there was coordination or collusion by someone (or more than one) in the campaign in possible conspiracy or violation of campaign finance laws.
I was focusing on the subject at hand - like Goat wants us to.
So, in short, the crimes are indeed obvious. What's not obvious is if any campaign officials can be connected to them. But if they can, you can bet it will be through the DNC hack.
Potentially espionage?
I.e. Let's say members of Trump's campaign were taking orders from Russia directly in exchange for $. What would that fall under? If multiple members of Trump's campaign were working for Russia, it calls into question Trump's role imo.
Edit: And say the part about orders for $ isn't directly tied to the hack.
As for Trump, could these statements be evidence in a court of law
"“I will tell you this, Russia: If you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” the Republican nominee said at a news conference in Florida. “I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.”"
They seem self-incriminating on the surface.
We are talking about the obvious crimes, not the wacky ones.
Campaigns take orders in exchange for money all the time. Elected officials take orders in exchange for money all the time. Foreign government regularly lobby our officials for favorable treatment.
I think you are talking about bribes here. I can see that for elected officials. It is hard for me to conceive of a bribe of a campaign. I don't think there is any such thing.
Another way this might go is what was suggested by Goat...the Trump campaign was coordinating with the Russians on the release and targeting of the information gained via hacking. There is emerging evidence of quite close coordination for example between stories that were released on Russian fake news sites and the Trump campaign.
All the Wikileaks material was genuine and not faked. At least neither the Clinton campaign nor the Democrats said any of it was faked.
What emerging evidence is there that the hacked information was timed with the Trump campaign?
Paul Manafort was the head of Trump's campaign, so I don't think it's wacky.
It's a form of bribery I guess. But we don't know what the officials in Trump's campaign were reporting back to Russia? Nor do we know what Flynn was up to, once in office? Hence Flynn could conceivably be charged with espionage?
Also, it's illegal for foreign governments to contribute to campaigns.
That's entirely possibly.
I believe Roger Stone suggested that leaks were incoming... and he was right. Possibly Rudolph Giuliani? Maybe others.
I was focusing on the obvious crimes of the Trump campaign. Those of the Russians are obvious, those of the campaign are not.
Do you think the FBI should investigate Mexico? There is much more evidence of Mexican involvement in the election that there is of Russian involvement. Current and former Mexican officials, including the Presidents, were quite vocal about their preferences in the election. There are many Mexican business and governmental interests involved with Mexican ex pats here. The Mexicans are quite vocal about our immigration policies. All this public posturing about our candidates and our policy for me is more evidence about potential foreign influence than is publicly known about Russia.
Roger Stone was, by intention and design, not part of the Trump campaign. He obviously supported Trump. Even if Stone was a paid Russian spy, how does that rub off on Trump?
Stone was a leading figure of the campaign! He was very much a part of the campaign.
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/donald-trumps-debate-dirty-trickster-121098
They are still talking in weekly/daily calls to this very day!!! In fact Trump fired Comey after being instructed by Stone to do so! That in and of itself maybe a crime! (Stone is currently a suspect in a criminal investigation by the FBI)
That was written in August of 2015. I have no doubt Stone and Trump are buds. But that doesn't make him part of the campaign.
Correct. He was a part of the campaign until sometime in 2016 believe. Did the campaign only start in 2017?
Does the intelligence community believe the Mexican government was involved in stealing data from the DNC and disseminating it through WikiLeaks?
Not that I know of. In any event. if there was Mexican meddling, I doubt it would have justified a FISA warrant.
Depending what may come out of the Russian investigation you may see a whole lot of new laws go into effect about what is permissible when dealing with foreign governments. I don't think anyone but a double O secret agent has run into a scenario like this last election and James Bond wasn't available to save us this time.
The chants and photos of all those people carrying torches was chilling. It was hard to tell how many were there, but certainly more than the usual small, scattered group. I know that hate crimes are sharply on the rise, but I wouldn't be surprised to see that membership in KKK and NEo Nazi groups are also.The crime is obvious...the question is what role Trump played in it. The question is what other illegal relationships between Trump and Russia will emerge. It seems that some on the right would be entirely comfortable if Putin himself were to be installed as emperor of America. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...confederate-statue-virginia-article-1.3164235
White supremacist Richard Spencer takes selfie at torch wielding rally protesting removal of confederate monument where they were chanting "Russia is our friend"
Uh, Roger Stone was absolutely a part of the Trump campaign. He was an advisor. He left the campaign in 2015; Trump said he was fired, and Stone said he quit.
On on an even mundane level it violates the Federal Election Campaign Act. People paid by the Kremlin trolling US sites on behalf of Donald Trump.
it was a beautiful expression of the 1st amendment, unlike in Russia where you are arrested for demonstrating in public.
Two questions that are related to your point.
Why wouldn't the DNC allow the FBI to inspect the DNC servers to determine the source and nature of the hack?
Why did the RNC welcome the FBI inspection of RNC servers (twice IIRC)? FWIW, the FBI found unsuccessful attempts at hacking the RNC.
