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Trump continues to be Russia's b**ch...wants to bring them back into G7

iu_a_att

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Russia was kicked out of the G7 when they invaded Crimea. Now, because of their good behavior, Trump wants to bring them back in. It is not a question of whether Trump colluded with Russia and Putin it is a question of when is it going to stop. Far from punishing Russia for its attack on our elections or its bad behavior globally Trump is consistently rewarding them. I am so sick of Trump's continuous betrayal of our values, our allies and our country.
 
Russia was kicked out of the G7 when they invaded Crimea. Now, because of their good behavior, Trump wants to bring them back in. It is not a question of whether Trump colluded with Russia and Putin it is a question of when is it going to stop. Far from punishing Russia for its attack on our elections or its bad behavior globally Trump is consistently rewarding them. I am so sick of Trump's continuous betrayal of our values, our allies and our country.

All the connections to Russia and favorable treatment of Russia are just coincidence
 
This was my point in other threads. If we know as ATT says, why are we waiting?

Because it is not so.....easy answer
 
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Russia was kicked out of the G7 when they invaded Crimea. Now, because of their good behavior, Trump wants to bring them back in. It is not a question of whether Trump colluded with Russia and Putin it is a question of when is it going to stop. Far from punishing Russia for its attack on our elections or its bad behavior globally Trump is consistently rewarding them. I am so sick of Trump's continuous betrayal of our values, our allies and our country.

Yet Trump claims that he is so tough that they would have preferred Hillary as the POTUS.
The piles of dung that he shovels and being purchased is mind boggling.
 
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Easier answer:
We don't do anything because ... people like you don't actually give two shits about collusion or corruption or our allies etc...Trump gives you a thrill and gives the right power...
Because of me? Let’s put him away if they have proof....please put him away. Why haven’t we? Couldn’t be because there isn’t any proof right? No it couldn’t ....I mean I am sure Mueller is just sitting on it until a better time to disclose it :)
 
Because of me? Let’s put him away if they have proof....please put him away. Why haven’t we? Couldn’t be because there isn’t any proof right? No it couldn’t ....I mean I am sure Mueller is just sitting on it until a better time to disclose it :)

This is the best payday Mueller has ever had.
 
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Because of me? Let’s put him away if they have proof....please put him away. Why haven’t we? Couldn’t be because there isn’t any proof right? No it couldn’t ....I mean I am sure Mueller is just sitting on it until a better time to disclose it :)
I'd guess he's trying to get all the rats in the box before he closes it. I imagine a prison with a trump wing that could hold his entire knuckle headed clan. They could spray paint the toilets gold and tell them they're home.
 
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Because of me? Let’s put him away if they have proof....please put him away. Why haven’t we? Couldn’t be because there isn’t any proof right? No it couldn’t ....I mean I am sure Mueller is just sitting on it until a better time to disclose it :)
Because you believe this in your heart-of-hearts, is why it’s difficult to take you seriously as a good-faith poster.

Because you can’t fathom that Mueller has perhaps discovered there is gray area that is being attempted to turn black and white before unleashing a report that could cause further upheaval and unrest, is why it’s difficult to take you seriously as a good-faith poster.
 
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I'd guess he's trying to get all the rats in the box before he closes it. I imagine a prison with a trump wing that could hold his entire knuckle headed clan. They could spray paint the toilets gold and tell them they're home.
You may be right.... but what I don’t agree with is the statement att made....”It is not a question” and the supporting post of Super..... just pointing out the accepted jumps to conclusions on some subjects and then not accepted on others.
 
Because you believe this in your heart-of-hearts, is why it’s difficult to take you seriously as a good-faith poster.

Because you can’t fathom that Mueller has perhaps discovered there is gray area that is being attempted to turn black and white before unleashing a report that could cause further upheaval and unrest, is why it’s difficult to take you seriously as a good-faith poster.
A good faith poster? My friend that is exactly what good faith means. Honest and sincere... if I believe it in my heart as you put it, and I post it, that makes me a good faith poster.....
 
We have a big problem...the President is systematically and routinely betraying us in favor of Russia's interests.
The last twenty four hours of attacks on our closest allies capped by President Trump’s seemingly out of the blue demand to bring Russia back into the G-7 (making it again the G-8 which it was for most of the post-Cold War era until Russia was expelled over the annexation of Crimea) simply brings the matter into a newly sharp relief. If candidate Trump and President Putin had made a corrupt bargain which obligated President Trump to destabilize all US security and trade alliances (especially NATO, which has been Russia’s primary strategic goal for 70 years) and advance the strategic interests of Russia, there’s really nothing more remotely realistic he could have done to accomplish that than what he has in fact done.

Take a moment to let that sink in. I need to take a moment to let it sink in. It’s shocking to me. It’s shocking to me what’s happening. Now I said above “remotely realistic.” A critic of what I wrote above might note that Trump could in fact have taken steps to abrogate the NATO treaty commitments. He might have said publicly that the US would not aid the Baltic states or Poland against a Russian invasion. We can also note that he has approved very limited sale of weaponry to Ukraine, which is of course still battling Russian proxy forces in the eastern part of the country. But the things he could have done but has not done really to me fall into the category of things that are unnecessary and probably still beyond what the President could remotely get away with.

Sanctions are an instructive example. The administration did finally impose a limited version of the sanctions Congress authorized early in Trump’s presidency. But on every sanctions front it has been always absolutely as little as possible and always kicking and screaming. He has also been surrounded by people like H.R. McMaster and many others of a similar outlook, who clearly aren’t friendly to the strategic interests of Russia. So Trump has been operating to a degree within the constraints of US public opinion and the heavy remonstrations of his top advisors. And yet … at every opportunity, everything he could realistically do to advance that agenda.​
 
We have a big problem...the President is systematically and routinely betraying us in favor of Russia's interests.
The last twenty four hours of attacks on our closest allies capped by President Trump’s seemingly out of the blue demand to bring Russia back into the G-7 (making it again the G-8 which it was for most of the post-Cold War era until Russia was expelled over the annexation of Crimea) simply brings the matter into a newly sharp relief. If candidate Trump and President Putin had made a corrupt bargain which obligated President Trump to destabilize all US security and trade alliances (especially NATO, which has been Russia’s primary strategic goal for 70 years) and advance the strategic interests of Russia, there’s really nothing more remotely realistic he could have done to accomplish that than what he has in fact done.

Take a moment to let that sink in. I need to take a moment to let it sink in. It’s shocking to me. It’s shocking to me what’s happening. Now I said above “remotely realistic.” A critic of what I wrote above might note that Trump could in fact have taken steps to abrogate the NATO treaty commitments. He might have said publicly that the US would not aid the Baltic states or Poland against a Russian invasion. We can also note that he has approved very limited sale of weaponry to Ukraine, which is of course still battling Russian proxy forces in the eastern part of the country. But the things he could have done but has not done really to me fall into the category of things that are unnecessary and probably still beyond what the President could remotely get away with.

Sanctions are an instructive example. The administration did finally impose a limited version of the sanctions Congress authorized early in Trump’s presidency. But on every sanctions front it has been always absolutely as little as possible and always kicking and screaming. He has also been surrounded by people like H.R. McMaster and many others of a similar outlook, who clearly aren’t friendly to the strategic interests of Russia. So Trump has been operating to a degree within the constraints of US public opinion and the heavy remonstrations of his top advisors. And yet … at every opportunity, everything he could realistically do to advance that agenda.​

A serious thought.... what if this has to do with other things happening in the world? NK summit is coming .... Russia would be less willing to cause trouble thinking we are trying to help them with the G7? He’s the President and he has control until Mueller decides to stop sitting on the smoking gun
 
Trump might as well be a Russian agent:

One of Russia’s principal foreign-policy goals for decades has been to split the United States from is allies. Whether by accident or by design, President Trump appears intent on bringing that dream to fruition.

The most immediate theater of Western disarray is today’s G7 meeting in Canada. Trump has been fomenting a trade war, hurling wild and largely groundless accusations at America’s allies.

. . . Western trade partners have attempted to reason with Trump’s demands, but the problem is that the basis for his beliefs and actions is entirely fantastical. If your neighbor is irate that you let your dog run loose in his yard, you can pacify him. If he’s irate that you are reading his thoughts through his tinfoil hat, there’s nothing you can do except disengage. And that is what they are doing. French president Emmanuel Macron threatened to sign a six-country agreement omitting the U.S. altogether. Canadian prime Minister Justin Trudeau vowed “to defend our industries and our workers” and “show the U.S. president that his unacceptable actions are hurting his own citizens.”

But trade is merely a symptom of a larger rearrangement of American alienation from its partners. The West has attempted to prevail upon Trump to retain, in some form, a series of agreements he inherited: the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the Paris climate agreement, and the Iran nuclear deal. In every instance the negotiations foundered on Trump’s allergy to compromise and immunity to reason. You can’t negotiate a climate plan with a person who considers climate science a Chinese hoax any more than you can negotiate a trade deal with somebody who believes Canada must be punished for the War of 1812.

. . . It’s not as if Trump is unable to get along with anybody. He has drawn our country closer to a variety of despots: in the Gulf states, North Korea, China, and of course Russia. There is an element of personality involved here. Trump admires strongmen. “Who are the three guys in the world he most admires?” a Trump adviser told the Post last year. “President Xi [Jinping] of China, [Turkish President Recep Tayyip] Erdogan and Putin. They’re all the same guy.”​

Relatedly, strongmen have the ability to deal with Trump in what is euphemistically described as “transactional” terms. China spent hundreds of millions of dollars enhancing the value of a Trump property, and in turn was quickly granted a reprieve for a telecommunications firm that had broken American law. “Those regimes take a transactional approach. Many American allies have relied on appeals to reason, data and shared values,” reports Politico, which also quotes a former Trump official helpfully explaining, “If you’re not a despot, you can’t really be transactional.” This clarifies the euphemism, because of course a democratic leader can be transactional. Democratic countries negotiate transactions all the time. What they can’t do is hand out bribes.​

No country has taken a more “transactional” approach toward Trump than Russia, and no country has seen its investment rewarded so richly. As he boarded his plane to the G7 meeting he was about to tear up, Trump told reporters he believed Russia should be readmitted into the group: “It may not be politically correct, but we have a world to run … They should let Russia back in.”

Russia was expelled after invading and seizing territory from its neighbor, among other aggressive actions — including murdering people overseas, menacing other neighbors and, not incidentally, committing cybertheft against the Democratic Party as part of its operation to help elect Trump. Last night, The Wall Street Journal reported Russia has asked Austria — another friendly country with a far-right leader — to organize a meeting between Putin and Trump this summer. The Trump administration “is pondering the offer.”

The rise of Donald Trump has been met with a persistent strain of denial. First domestically, and then abroad, his would-be partners greeted the unfathomable election of an uneducable demagogue by convincing themselves he didn’t really mean ravings that passed for his official policies, and that they could reason with, co-opt, or otherwise negotiate with him. Trump’s domestic counterparts grasped reality more quickly than his international partners.

“Senior government officials in Washington, London, Berlin, and other European capitals” tell Susan Glasser “they now worry that Trump may be a greater immediate threat to the alliance than even authoritarian great-power rivals, such as Russia and China.” Trump might be a greater threat to the West than Putin. Worse, he might be, in a sense, the very same threat.​
 
This was my point in other threads. If we know as ATT says, why are we waiting?

Because it is not so.....easy answer

Sigh.

No. It’s not. Let me explain it again.

To impeach (and remove) a sitting US president is a HUGE deal. As such, the evidence must be airtight.

And given that the current administration continues to lie, obstruct and deflect, it hasn’t made that task any easier. Plus, we’re dealing with a bunch of foreign nationals and companies- that all, mysteriously enough, are linked to the Kremlin. It’s not as if it’s easy dealing with those sources either.

Rudy G, Nunes & Trump can try to change the narrative all they want- Mueller is just going to keep on plugging. And not leak anything- his team can’t really rebut all the lies coming from the folks they’re investigating.

The fact that this investigation continues, and has produced as many charges and convictions as it has, tells me they’re working this like a classic mob investigation. And they’re getting closer to the inner circle- if they’re not already there. There’s got to be a reason that Trump and Rudy are constantly calling it a “witch hunt”. Their attacks have been intensified lately. That isn’t a coincidence.

Remember, it took 5 years for the whitewater investigation to wrap up- and all it produced was catching the president in a lie about his personal life. The Mueller probe is just over a year old now. And has already produced much more by way of charges & convictions.

This is MUCH more serious probe, and deeper in every conceivable way. It’s amazing they’ve accomplished what they accomplished so far- and they’re obviously well aware that it needs to wrap up as quickly as possible.

Trust the system. There’s a reason it’s really hard to impeach and remove a president. The good news is the Mueller is a pro’s pro, and he is unbiased as can be- he’s a lifelong republican. As are many of the lawyers in his team. He’s going to go where the facts and law take him.

If Trump were completely innocent and had nothing to hide, why wouldn’t he have sat down for an interview/Depo already? Instead, they’re waging war on anything remotely connected to the investigation. That speaks volumes. Those are not the actions of an innocent man/administration. We already know they tried to collude with Russians- that’s not in dispute.

Stop drinking the kool aid from Trump defenders. This is a professional investigaton, and it deserves the time it needs to be throrough and complete. If there was truly nothing there, it would’ve wrapped up by now. Again, it’s not as if they've had any real cooperation.

In other words, Mueller has nothing to gain and everything to lose by extending the probe unnecessarily. Because Trump and his cronies have essentially put our intelligence communities and federal institutions (DOJ) on blast, Mueller knows the significance of doing this the right way.

We shall see. But let it play out- it’s important that it’s done in the right way. If there’s something there, we shall see it. If not, we shall also see it.
 
We have a big problem...the President is systematically and routinely betraying us in favor of Russia's interests.
The last twenty four hours of attacks on our closest allies capped by President Trump’s seemingly out of the blue demand to bring Russia back into the G-7 (making it again the G-8 which it was for most of the post-Cold War era until Russia was expelled over the annexation of Crimea) simply brings the matter into a newly sharp relief. If candidate Trump and President Putin had made a corrupt bargain which obligated President Trump to destabilize all US security and trade alliances (especially NATO, which has been Russia’s primary strategic goal for 70 years) and advance the strategic interests of Russia, there’s really nothing more remotely realistic he could have done to accomplish that than what he has in fact done.

Take a moment to let that sink in. I need to take a moment to let it sink in. It’s shocking to me. It’s shocking to me what’s happening. Now I said above “remotely realistic.” A critic of what I wrote above might note that Trump could in fact have taken steps to abrogate the NATO treaty commitments. He might have said publicly that the US would not aid the Baltic states or Poland against a Russian invasion. We can also note that he has approved very limited sale of weaponry to Ukraine, which is of course still battling Russian proxy forces in the eastern part of the country. But the things he could have done but has not done really to me fall into the category of things that are unnecessary and probably still beyond what the President could remotely get away with.

Sanctions are an instructive example. The administration did finally impose a limited version of the sanctions Congress authorized early in Trump’s presidency. But on every sanctions front it has been always absolutely as little as possible and always kicking and screaming. He has also been surrounded by people like H.R. McMaster and many others of a similar outlook, who clearly aren’t friendly to the strategic interests of Russia. So Trump has been operating to a degree within the constraints of US public opinion and the heavy remonstrations of his top advisors. And yet … at every opportunity, everything he could realistically do to advance that agenda.​
Trump seems to be Putin's bitch but the Trump administration doesn't seem to be which is good:

If you just went by what Donald Trump said, it would seem as if US-Russia relations were at their strongest point in recent history. Trump congratulated Putin on his (obviously fraudulent) reelection last month, has continually mocked and rejected the US intelligence community’s unanimous belief that Russia interfered in the 2016 election, and publicly questioned the value of the NATO alliance.

But if you look at what his administration has actually done, you’d get the sense that we’re nearly back to the Cold War era. In the past year, the US has:

  • Provided anti-tank missiles to Ukraine, something the Obama administration was never willing to do
  • Slapped new sanctions on Russian nationals and organizations
  • Deployed about 900 troops to Poland and stationed them roughly 100 miles from the Russian border — a deployment explicitly billed as an effort to deter Russian military adventurism and reinforce America’s commitment to NATO
  • And, just last week, oversaw the largest expulsion of Russian diplomats and spies in US history
This is not how foreign policy is supposed to work.

The president, in consultation with his Cabinet, is supposed to decide on an overall approach that reflects his view of the issue in question. Specific policies are designed to advance whatever the overall goal is; presidential statements explain this goal to the public and serve as an independent source of pressure (the “bully pulpit” effect).

But here, you have a clear division between the president’s words and the actions taken by nearly everyone else in the executive branch. Normally, that kind of disagreement plays out in Cabinet meetings and other private sessions. But in Trump’s highly unorthodox White House, there doesn’t seem to be any effort to reconcile the president’s view of Russia with that of his advisers.

The result is that Trump’s staff is pursuing a confrontational approach to Russia — either by providing the president with hawkish policy recommendations or by simply doing things on their own authority. Trump, for whatever reason, has let this go on without altering his soft line on the Kremlin. The result is the complete and total contradiction between the president’s words and America’s actions that you’ve seen in the past few days.

Perhaps the sole counterexample is the sanctions that Congress overwhelmingly voted to impose on Russia for its election hack. Trump only signed the sanctions bill reluctantly, issuing a statement calling it “seriously flawed,” and failed to implement the sanctions by a January 2018 deadline.

But that resistance didn’t last. In mid-March, the Treasury Department designated five Russian organizations and 19 Russian nationals for punishment under the new legislation. While Trump may have initially resisted the sanctions pressure, he ultimately ended up caving — backing off from what would have been a major fight with both Congress and his own deputies.

“So far, he has never really interfered in Russia policy,” says Shapiro of the president. “When it comes to Russia, he seems to sit alone in the Oval Office muttering at the wall, but he can find no one to turn his inchoate grumblings into action.”​

I can imagine Trump sitting alone in the Oval Office muttering at the wall too. :rolleyes:
 
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Blah blah....
 
This is the best payday Mueller has ever had.

Mueller was retired before all of this. He’s doing it out of a sense of duty to his country- he’s always placed love for his country above everything else.

Google his background.

I promise you, he’d rather be enjoying retirement right now.

Remember, he’s brought on even more attorneys since the probe began- that tells me that he’s finding lots of buried bodies.
 
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Sigh.

No. It’s not. Let me explain it again.

To impeach (and remove) a sitting US president is a HUGE deal. As such, the evidence must be airtight.

And given that the current administration continues to lie, obstruct and deflect, it hasn’t made that task any easier. Plus, we’re dealing with a bunch of foreign nationals and companies- that all, mysteriously enough, are linked to the Kremlin. It’s not as if it’s easy dealing with those sources either.

Rudy G, Nunes & Trump can try to change the narrative all they want- Mueller is just going to keep on plugging. And not leak anything- his team can’t really rebut all the lies coming from the folks they’re investigating.

The fact that this investigation continues, and has produced as many charges and convictions as it has, tells me they’re working this like a classic mob investigation. And they’re getting closer to the inner circle- if they’re not already there. There’s got to be a reason that Trump and Rudy are constantly calling it a “witch hunt”. Their attacks have been intensified lately. That isn’t a coincidence.

Remember, it took 5 years for the whitewater investigation to wrap up- and all it produced was catching the president in a lie about his personal life. The Mueller probe is just over a year old now. And has already produced much more by way of charges & convictions.

This is MUCH more serious probe, and deeper in every conceivable way. It’s amazing they’ve accomplished what they accomplished so far- and they’re obviously well aware that it needs to wrap up as quickly as possible.

Trust the system. There’s a reason it’s really hard to impeach and remove a president. The good news is the Mueller is a pro’s pro, and he is unbiased as can be- he’s a lifelong republican. As are many of the lawyers in his team. He’s going to go where the facts and law take him.

If Trump were completely innocent and had nothing to hide, why wouldn’t he have sat down for an interview/Depo already? Instead, they’re waging war on anything remotely connected to the investigation. That speaks volumes. Those are not the actions of an innocent man/administration. We already know they tried to collude with Russians- that’s not in dispute.

Stop drinking the kool aid from Trump defenders. This is a professional investigaton, and it deserves the time it needs to be throrough and complete. If there was truly nothing there, it would’ve wrapped up by now. Again, it’s not as if they've had any real cooperation.

In other words, Mueller has nothing to gain and everything to lose by extending the probe unnecessarily. Because Trump and his cronies have essentially put our intelligence communities and federal institutions (DOJ) on blast, Mueller knows the significance of doing this the right way.

We shall see. But let it play out- it’s important that it’s done in the right way. If there’s something there, we shall see it. If not, we shall also see it.
Again please read att’s post..... would you like to correct it? How about supers? So quick to respond to mine but ignore what I’m responding too..... kinda funny
 
Again please read att’s post..... would you like to correct it? How about supers? So quick to respond to mine but ignore what I’m responding too..... kinda funny

Jibberish.

You’re claiming that if there’s proof, it should be divulged. Right now. Because you’re either ignorant of how this works, inpatient, or buying into team Trump’s BS.

I laid out why it hasn’t ceased yet.

Would you care to address what I wrote?
 
Jibberish.

You’re claiming that if there’s proof, it should be divulged. Right now. Because you’re either ignorant of how this works, inpatient, or buying into team Trump’s BS.

I laid out why it hasn’t ceased yet.

Would you care to address what I wrote?

Please......att stated it’s a fact he colluded .... it’s not a fact.

As far as what you wrote I stopped after saying Trump has obstructed.... they have provided far more and far earlier than our last impeached president provided.... you guys are worried.... or maybe it is hope is fading...
 
A good faith poster? My friend that is exactly what good faith means. Honest and sincere... if I believe it in my heart as you put it, and I post it, that makes me a good faith poster.....
Good faith means you’re putting your best intention to think critically and listen to other opinions. Is that what you’ve done on this one?
 
Good faith means you’re putting your best intention to think critically and listen to other opinions. Is that what you’ve done on this one?
Yes.... would you say att OP was in good faith using your definition? It is a fact that Trump colluded?
 
Yes.... would you say att OP was in good faith using your definition? It is a fact that Trump colluded?
That’s not how I read OP’s comments. But I can see how they can be read that way.
 
Trump seems to be Putin's bitch but the Trump administration doesn't see to be which is good:

If you just went by what Donald Trump said, it would seem as if US-Russia relations were at their strongest point in recent history. Trump congratulated Putin on his (obviously fraudulent) reelection last month, has continually mocked and rejected the US intelligence community’s unanimous belief that Russia interfered in the 2016 election, and publicly questioned the value of the NATO alliance.

But if you look at what his administration has actually done, you’d get the sense that we’re nearly back to the Cold War era. In the past year, the US has:

  • Provided anti-tank missiles to Ukraine, something the Obama administration was never willing to do
  • Slapped new sanctions on Russian nationals and organizations
  • Deployed about 900 troops to Poland and stationed them roughly 100 miles from the Russian border — a deployment explicitly billed as an effort to deter Russian military adventurism and reinforce America’s commitment to NATO
  • And, just last week, oversaw the largest expulsion of Russian diplomats and spies in US history
This is not how foreign policy is supposed to work.

The president, in consultation with his Cabinet, is supposed to decide on an overall approach that reflects his view of the issue in question. Specific policies are designed to advance whatever the overall goal is; presidential statements explain this goal to the public and serve as an independent source of pressure (the “bully pulpit” effect).

But here, you have a clear division between the president’s words and the actions taken by nearly everyone else in the executive branch. Normally, that kind of disagreement plays out in Cabinet meetings and other private sessions. But in Trump’s highly unorthodox White House, there doesn’t seem to be any effort to reconcile the president’s view of Russia with that of his advisers.

The result is that Trump’s staff is pursuing a confrontational approach to Russia — either by providing the president with hawkish policy recommendations or by simply doing things on their own authority. Trump, for whatever reason, has let this go on without altering his soft line on the Kremlin. The result is the complete and total contradiction between the president’s words and America’s actions that you’ve seen in the past few days.

Perhaps the sole counterexample is the sanctions that Congress overwhelmingly voted to impose on Russia for its election hack. Trump only signed the sanctions bill reluctantly, issuing a statement calling it “seriously flawed,” and failed to implement the sanctions by a January 2018 deadline.

But that resistance didn’t last. In mid-March, the Treasury Department designated five Russian organizations and 19 Russian nationals for punishment under the new legislation. While Trump may have initially resisted the sanctions pressure, he ultimately ended up caving — backing off from what would have been a major fight with both Congress and his own deputies.

“So far, he has never really interfered in Russia policy,” says Shapiro of the president. “When it comes to Russia, he seems to sit alone in the Oval Office muttering at the wall, but he can find no one to turn his inchoate grumblings into action.”​

I can imagine Trump sitting alone in the Oval Office muttering at the wall too. :rolleyes:
I agree with the broader point that you (and Vox) are making: Trump talks and acts like a Russian agent, but he's too incompetent to keep his administration in line with him. But this is still quite a problem. Can anyone imagine Republicans being copacetic if President Hillary were being restrained from favoring Russian interests by the rest of her administration? Any Democrat who suggested that such a thing was acceptable would be either laughed off the stage or branded a traitor -- or both.

Also, yes Trump okayed the sale of anti-tank weapons to Ukraine -- which Russia bitterly opposed. But remember that this bought Ukraine's decision to stop cooperating with the Mueller investigation. Trump is an imbecile, but he's also a crook. (Or maybe he's a crook, but he's also an imbecile.)
 
That’s not how I read OP’s comments. But I can see how they can be read that way.

That is all I’m pointing out.... he said it wasnt a question of if but when is it going to stop. That is pretty clear to me.
 
Yes.... would you say att OP was in good faith using your definition? It is a fact that Trump colluded?
It is a fact that Trump colluded and it is the fact that he is doing Russia's bidding now. We have covered this in many different threads. Whether that collusion is illegal is the question that Mueller is pursuing.
 
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It is a fact that Trump colluded and it is the fact that he is doing Russia's bidding now. We have covered this in many different threads. Whether that collusion is illegal is the question that Mueller is pursuing.

I see.... because you agree with each other it is fact.... good one. Big hurdle there
 
I agree with the broader point that you (and Vox) are making: Trump talks and acts like a Russian agent, but he's too incompetent to keep his administration in line with him. But this is still quite a problem. Can anyone imagine Republicans being copacetic if President Hillary were being restrained from favoring Russian interests by the rest of her administration? Any Democrat who suggested that such a thing was acceptable would be either laughed off the stage or branded a traitor -- or both.

Also, yes Trump okayed the sale of anti-tank weapons to Ukraine -- which Russia bitterly opposed. But remember that this bought Ukraine's decision to stop cooperating with the Mueller investigation. Trump is an imbecile, but he's also a crook. (Or maybe he's a crook, but he's also an imbecile.)
I agree that it's a big problem and that he's incompetent and a crook too.
 
It is a fact that Trump colluded and it is the fact that he is doing Russia's bidding now. We have covered this in many different threads. Whether that collusion is illegal is the question that Mueller is pursuing.
Define “colluded”
 
Relatedly, strongmen have the ability to deal with Trump in what is euphemistically described as “transactional” terms. ... Many American allies have relied on appeals to reason, data and shared values,” reports Politico, which also quotes a former Trump official helpfully explaining, “If you’re not a despot, you can’t really be transactional.” This clarifies the euphemism, because of course a democratic leader can be transactional. Democratic countries negotiate transactions all the time. What they can’t do is hand out bribes.​

No country has taken a more “transactional” approach toward Trump than Russia, and no country has seen its investment rewarded so richly. As he boarded his plane to the G7 meeting he was about to tear up, Trump told reporters he believed Russia should be readmitted into the group: “It may not be politically correct, but we have a world to run … They should let Russia back in.”
I note that "transactional" just means that Trump can be personally bribed.​
 
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Please......att stated it’s a fact he colluded .... it’s not a fact.

As far as what you wrote I stopped after saying Trump has obstructed.... they have provided far more and far earlier than our last impeached president provided.... you guys are worried.... or maybe it is hope is fading...

TEAM Trump at least attempted to collude. No evidence yet of Trump himself doing so. There’s no doubt that folks within his inner circle sought help from the Russians. And it strains credibility to think that he knew nothing of the multiple attempts/contacts. Even after the fact.

And, Trump outright asked for their help in finding Clinton’s emails. Pretty clear that they at least tried to work with the Russians. Whether they did so, that’s up to team Mueller to find out.

All of this stuff is so obvious and in the open, we tend to forget that it happened. His constant barrage of lies has worn us all down to the actual known facts thus far.

I don’t know about you, but those are things that should NEVER happen in any presidential campaign. The FBI is very clear that you should contact them if approached by Russians, or any other foreign power offering assistance. Up until this election, that wasn’t a concern.

Is that better?

PS- This has zero to do with anyone named Clinton. I brought that up to illustrate that this type of investigation takes time.
 
Please......att stated it’s a fact he colluded .... it’s not a fact.

As far as what you wrote I stopped after saying Trump has obstructed.... they have provided far more and far earlier than our last impeached president provided.... you guys are worried.... or maybe it is hope is fading...

And, the truth will come out. That’s the one thing I’m sure of at this point. Whatever team Mueller finds, I’m good with it. It’s in their hands now- as it should be.

And, I hope to god in the future we never have a campaign that pulls the chit Team Trump did during the presidential campaign. It’s beyond the pale.

The one thing that continues to bother me is this- why does Trump try to get along with Putin, yet does everything he can to antagonize our allies? The tariffs being the latest example. It’s almost as if he’s on a mission to destroy our traditional friendships/alliances.
 
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TEAM Trump at least attempted to collude. No evidence yet of Trump himself doing so. There’s no doubt that folks within his inner circle sought help from the Russians. And it strains credibility to think that he knew nothing of the multiple attempts/contacts. Even after the fact.

And, Trump outright asked for their help in finding Clinton’s emails. Pretty clear that they at least tried to work with the Russians. Whether they did so, that’s up to team Mueller to find out.

All of this stuff is so obvious and in the open, we tend to forget that it happened. His constant barrage of lies has worn us all down to the actual known facts thus far.

I don’t know about you, but those are things that should NEVER happen in any presidential campaign. The FBI is very clear that you should contact them if approached by Russians, or any other foreign power offering assistance. Up until this election, that wasn’t a concern.

Is that better?

PS- This has zero to do with anyone named Clinton. I brought that up to illustrate that this type of investigation takes time.

I have no problem with it taking time. I have a problem with people stating it is a fact that he colluded. It’s okay to say it is being investigated. It is okay to say it looks like he did. But we don’t know for a fact that he did. I believe you are referring to the comment he made in an interview I believe about Russia releasing emails if they had them....I don’t call that collusion. There wouldn’t have been a need to say it on tv if there was a relationship in place for collusion.

Again I have zero issue with the time. But we can’t go 5 years acting like he is guilty (meaning limiting powers, restricting powers) only to find out he isn’t. Att and the like would be fine with that prospect and it would be wrong and bad for the country in so many ways....
 
And, the truth will come out. That’s the one thing I’m sure of at this point. Whatever team Mueller finds, I’m good with it. It’s in their hands now- as it should be.

And, I hope to god in the future we never have a campaign that pulls the chit Team Trump did during the presidential campaign. It’s beyond the pale.

The one thing that continues to bother me is this- why does Trump try to get along with Putin, yet does everything he can to antagonize our allies? The tariffs being the latest example. It’s almost as if he’s on a mission to destroy our traditional friendships/alliances.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...evidence-of-trumps-collusion-with-russia.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/560894/
 
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