I am just remembering the great Fred Rogers...that thread from yesterday has really stuck with me. Remember what he always said at the end?
Trump called Putin today to congratulate him on his election
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I like you just the way you are?I am just remembering the great Fred Rogers...that thread from yesterday has really stuck with me. Remember what he always said at the end?
That's right. Bottom line, by not addressing Russia's 2016 election meddling and not condemning Russia using a sophisticated nerve agent on an ex-Russian spy on the ground of our closest ally...then calling Putin to congratulate him on an election "win" that was a fraud simply gives Putin the greenlight to continue the same course of action. Side note, Putin had one of his main contenders murdered and another one was jailed on totally flimsy charges. So, as usual, Putin had no one to run against him. They're all dead or in jail.
Meanwhile, the Trump Admin's Homeland Security Dept has had zero, ZERO meetings on how they will protect the integrity of the 2018 election. Anyone in their right mind knows what that means.
Even uber right-wing moonbat Jennifer Rubin of the WaPost says "Trump doesn't even bother to hide his submissiveness to Putin anymore."
Seems blatantly obvious to me....but whatevs...
Meanwhile, the Trump Admin's Homeland Security Dept has had zero, ZERO meetings on how they will protect the integrity of the 2018 election. Anyone in their right mind knows what that means.
Even uber right-wing moonbat Jennifer Rubin of the WaPost says "Trump doesn't even bother to hide his submissiveness to Putin anymore."
Seems blatantly obvious to me....but whatevs...
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Maybe we're the idiots because we don't get our information from coloring books like The Donald.
Congress is ready and willing...but there's one big problem...and it's the guy with a hairpiece and orange skin. He had to be dragged, kicking and screaming to implement sanctions that were overwhelmingly voted for by congress.
As Jennifer Rubin points out in her Opinion piece today for the Post, Trump "lashes out at everyone from special counsel Robert S. Mueller III to our trading partners to the FBI, he nevertheless bends over backward to avoid confronting the Russian tyrant. Instead of standing up for the United States, Trump rolls over for Russia." That is just simply a 100% true statement.
As Jennifer Rubin points out in her Opinion piece today for the Post, Trump "lashes out at everyone from special counsel Robert S. Mueller III to our trading partners to the FBI, he nevertheless bends over backward to avoid confronting the Russian tyrant. Instead of standing up for the United States, Trump rolls over for Russia." That is just simply a 100% true statement.
I just saw his latest tweets:
Two things:
1) 'excoriate' -- who knew Trump was such a fan of Middle English literature. When was the last time you used this word? Trump has such Big words.
This guy?
2) 'PEACE THROUGH STRENGTH!' -- It sounded familiar but couldn't quite place it. A quick google and:
Similar tone?
Two things:
1) 'excoriate' -- who knew Trump was such a fan of Middle English literature. When was the last time you used this word? Trump has such Big words.
This guy?
2) 'PEACE THROUGH STRENGTH!' -- It sounded familiar but couldn't quite place it. A quick google and:
Similar tone?
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Well, to be fair, that was before Russia actively backed Donald Trump and hacked into our presidential election.
I did not say that. I don’t think he should have congratulated Putin.
Hoops, since 1945 the US has staged coups to install dictators. We have funded, and are funding, dictators. We backed a horrible regime in a horrible war through the 60s and 70s. Even now we fund a country using our military gifts to expand their land grab against many US sanctions. He should not have called Putin, but how does it compare against any of that.
You were in the "we don't learn anything from this crowd" weren't you? That is, assuming you already knew Trump was an idiot.
It doesn't. I never intimated that it did. What I said is that the combination of everything that Russia has done over the past 3 years (murders, hacking, possibly installing our own POTUS, attacking our greatest ally's homeland with deadly chemical weapons, and running a sham/fraud election that any moron would know Putin would win) should not be recognized with a friendly congratulatory call from our "president". If everyone knows Kentucky is cheating and they win the national championship, do we sweep it under the rug with a congratulatory phone call and act like nothing happened?
That's what we're doing here. I can't emphasize enough that with no push back this will not stop. In fact, it will get worse.
That's what we're doing here. I can't emphasize enough that with no push back this will not stop. In fact, it will get worse.
To say nothing of how Putin uses such "diplomacy" to bolster his strength at home.
What does any of that have to do with what we are talking about? This thread is really NOT about Russia it IS about Trump. Putin is just a bad dude with bad incentives who wishes us ill. There are lots of such characters on the international stage. But just in case there is confusion, I don't have any trouble distinguishing between the US and Russia as an agent of western liberal values. Warts and all the US has been, comparatively, a force for good in my view. And I know the warts.
Yes. However, that doesn’t mean I think Trump congratulating Putin was the right thing to do. I don’t get why you think one has to go with the other.
I never thought that any of the Goat, Aloha, Crazy2 et al crowd were arguing that congratulating Trump was the right thing to do. That was never the issue at least for me.
We actually arm bad players, saying "congrats" is nothing compared to giving them tanks. In theory a good leader could say "congrats" while planning the demise of the person. The problem is not the talk, talk is cheap. The problem is not walking the walk.
I don't think there is anyone here making that comparison. It's the entire body of Trump's work that's the problem. He will never, EVER, say something negative about Russia or Putin...even though the guy is a monster. In light of current events, I can't imagine calling Putin to congratulate him on a fraud election.
What's to congratulate?
What's to congratulate?
I am still lost...are you saying that we are bad dudes and deserve as good as we give? Maybe you think so. Personally I am opposed to having all the bad shit that goes on elsewhere happen here. I am opposed to it elsewhere and I am opposed to it here. Putin doesn't surprise me...what surprises me is us...I am surprised that there are evidently lots of Americans who think a Putin type regime is just what we need in the good ol USA. I know that these Americans must want that because these people elected Trump and that is what he wants. I am much less worried about Putin and Russia than I am about us.
Ok, I am against Putin. I am saying that a Kennedy arming South Vietnam is worse than saying something nice to Putin.
Have you ever ran into someone you do not like and said "good day" or anything else pleasant? Think of it that way. Saying congrats is not always a deep heartfelt well thought out idea that means "I will obay you master". I agree he should not say it but in the list of stupid things presidents have done, this is not over the top #1. That is my key point. The bigger problem are things like not immediately backing the UK.
History is full of world leaders saying nice things to each other while plotting to kill each other. As both sides prepared for WW1, the Kaiser was writing to the Czar as long time friends. Didn't stop him from trying to crush Russia.
Here is what I believe Trump is conveying to Putin: "Please hack our elections, please come in and attack and undermine my political opposition, please use whatever weapons you have in your arsenal that will help me keep and hold power here. In return I will turn a blind eye to anything you do elsewhere. To show you I mean what I say I am going to congratulate you on winning an election you stole. I am not going to criticize you for one damn thing including using chemical weapons to assassinate your opponents on the soil of our closest allies or attacking our elections. I will refer to you as "Mr. President" even as I insult former my own country's former Presidents. This is all going to cost me politically but you can see that I am willing and able to bear those costs."
There is nothing heartfelt, there is nothing like I will obey you, there is a very hardball deal on offer from Trump to a very hardball opponent of ours. It is a fundamental betrayal of the oath of office, of our democracy and of our people. Other Presidents may have done worse things to others on our behalf. No President that I am aware of has sought to do bad things to us on behalf of himself and others.
I think that's correct...except there has to be something more there. These meetings with Russians started way back in 2014. I think it's all about the sanctions. Clearly Russia has total leverage over Trump.
It may be that Putin has leverage...but it is not obvious to me that Trump would not sell out his country even without Putin having leverage.
In fact the Czar and the Kaiser were 1st cousins; all the crown heads were related:
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/broo...-relationships-that-couldnt-stop-world-war-i/
I don't think it's the worst thing in the world, but since his advisors told him not to do it, obviously even they thought it was bad. The fact that he ignores his security team is the bigger problem to me. What else does he ignore them about? And will he in the future? And obviously, the leaker thought it was bad enough to risk his job to get it out there.
Nah. He’s just a step ahead of those who think this phone call is remarkable.
All sounds good, but it omits a basic understanding of who Trump is. Trump, basically, is not trying to harm the US, but he is also not really trying to help the US. Trump will throw anyone and anything, including the US, under the bus to save his own ass. His only interest is himself and the only reason he kisses Putin's ass is Putin's ability to threaten Trump, personally. Putin has such powerful sway over Trump that Trump can't use his usually "Putin's a turnip" or whatever attack on his opponent.
Trump will throw everyone in his cabinet under the bus, he'll throw Kushner under the bus, he's already thrown Melania under the bus and likewise Ivanka has no safe place from him.
As for Trump's superficial policy to help the US, it's all retrograded to the 50s and before. He's trying to return us to some idyllic past and that is precisely how he is unwittingly ruining the US.
Brennan is as dull as dishwater personality-wise but when he speaks, it matters.
First, I think Trump is an idiot. I have trouble ascribing said idiot having developed some code system with Putin. Second, Putin has been a murderous thug for a ling time. As Rs keep pointing out, Obama congratulated him and gave the wiggle room comment.
Banal pleasantries are sometimes just banal pleasantries.
In a normal administration, yes. In this case, I disagree. Completely. Leakers are the only window we have into Trump's insanity, and he is insane in any colloquial sense, if not clinically. There's a reason the leakers are leaking this otherwise-trivial stuff. They feel it's their duty to the nation.
Goat's right in one sense, while being wrong overall. For any normal administration this is diplomacy as usual. Not for Trump. That's the point. That's the focus of the nuance. The entire Trump MO is to make the outrageous normal. No. There's nothing normal about the outrageous and there's nothing normal about Trump. Maintaining a clear, composed view of the Trump context requires great effort. There's nothing normal about pathological lying via Twitter multiple times a day, even if it's been going on for 1000 days.
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In this case: Leakers = Patriots
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