Trump and Hydroxychloroquine

Discussion in 'The Water Cooler' started by Bill4411, Apr 7, 2020.

  1. JamieDimonsBalls

    JamieDimonsBalls All-Big Ten
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    [​IMG]
     
  2. JamieDimonsBalls

    JamieDimonsBalls All-Big Ten
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    This might be the most ridiculous amount of nothing I've ever read about

    [​IMG]
     
  3. IUJIM

    IUJIM Moderator
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    TDS is in full swing. It is truly amazing that someone like Frum would tweet that. It makes him look like a complete moron.
     
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  4. INRanger27

    INRanger27 All-American
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    While I happen to agree with him in this instance, one shouldn’t get in the habit of posting something from Cernovich. It’s not a good look. The guy is a POS.
     
  5. hoot1

    hoot1 Hall of Famer
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    Isn't one of the advantages of electing a billionaire being that he is already rich and doesn't need the office as a spring board toward becoming rich?

    On the other hand, our president may not be as rich as he appears to be.
     
  6. Marvin the Martian

    Marvin the Martian Hall of Famer
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    I mentioned Sanofi and stock yesterday afternoon. Trump is not my concern, Trump has long had a habit of going where right-wing message boards take him. I would not be surprised to see someone on a 4chan, or Breitbart, or Sean Hannity owning far more stock than Trump and extolling the drug ad infinitum. Trump just picked up on that.
     
  7. Bill4411

    Bill4411 All-American
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    He's definitely suffering; hotels and golf courses are not doing so well.
     
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  8. thezinfan1

    thezinfan1 Freshman
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    He's also been pushing to a more favorable business meal write off. Mentioned that several times. I wonder why.....
     
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  9. Bill4411

    Bill4411 All-American
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    Whatever his reasons it is just irresponsible for him to advocate as he has for Hydroxychloroquine.
     
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  10. JamieDimonsBalls

    JamieDimonsBalls All-Big Ten
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    LOL, didn't realize he was butt buddies with Alex Jones, who I also ashamedly linked once upon a time.
     
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  11. cosmickid

    cosmickid All-American
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    Hey I LIKE Whitmer precisely for the reasons you view as negative. But the issue is that you made a false claim and then proceeded to link to an article that basically destroyed your entire false premise. Whitmer's order was not to stymy Trump, it was to protect the supply of chloroquine for non-COVID patients who actually rely on the drug on a daily basis. And the request came from the head GOP figure in the Legislature...
     
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  12. hoosboot

    hoosboot Hall of Famer
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    hoot, you are a nasty person. That statement is just so unfair. It's #fakenews. You're never going to get anywhere in this world saying things like that. Why can't you start it with something like,

    "Our President is very rich and has big hands"

    and if you want to ask a question, maybe go with something like,

    "Isn't one of the advantages of electing the best businessman in the history of man the fact that we get to say nice things about somebody so very attractive and successful...and rich...like way richer than Tim Apple or Little Mike or Jeff Bozo?"
     
  13. hoosboot

    hoosboot Hall of Famer
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    I mean, but other than all of that what he said was basically,..kind of...sort of...not really true. :rolleyes:
     
  14. Ladoga

    Ladoga All-Big Ten
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    OK, then. I hope you never have any illness of any kind.

    However, if you walk in a hospital in virtually any hot spot area with symptoms and your doctor offers you treatment with the drug, are you gonna refuse it?

    There's an article out this morning - you can look it up - that tells us that every patient in a New York hospital who exhibits symptoms is treated with that drug and another together. But those doctors don't know what they're doing and you do?
     
  15. cosmickid

    cosmickid All-American
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    Yeah-the lack of follow up with Fauci on this matter is the fault of the questioners... :rolleyes:

     
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  16. INRanger27

    INRanger27 All-American
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    I have zero problem, zero, with MDs deciding to Rx that product to people in the event they hope it helps. My arguments are purely academic and scientific that there are no clinical trial-worthy tests outside of Detroit and the WHO being run right now and nobody knows today if the drug works.

    And to use your patented overly dramatic arguments against you, I hope you’re not a lupus patient that can’t get your drug because it’s on shortage due to off label usage that is completely unproven.

    <old James Cagney voice> seeeeeee?
     
    56 INRanger27, Apr 7, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2020
  17. ButHerEmails

    ButHerEmails Freshman
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    Is that why the secret service reportedly pays full retail price for rooms and golf cart rentals at Trump properties?
     
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  18. Marvin the Martian

    Marvin the Martian Hall of Famer
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    Every patient? Including those with diabetes and heart disease? The drug manufacturer strongly warns against prescribing to both.
     
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  19. hoosboot

    hoosboot Hall of Famer
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    Why do you ask such nasty questions, Marvin? It's not like IronGreenBossierLagodaSuburb has a history of inaccurately quoting something, deceptively posting things, or just flat out making something up. I'd correct the wrongness of your post further, but my horse medication has me feeling a little woozy. ;)
     
  20. CO. Hoosier

    CO. Hoosier Hall of Famer
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    Here is what the original letter said:

    Prescribing any kind of prescription must also be associated with medical documentation showing proof of the medical necessity and medical condition for which the patient is being treated. Again, these are drugs that have not been proven scientifically or medically to treat COVID-19. (my emphasis).
    That was in addition to the hoarding issue. In other words, Michigan prohibited off-label use--a direct political statement. This was under threat of a licensure action. You missed the point of my link.
     
  21. Bill4411

    Bill4411 All-American
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    No group discounts that's for sure.
     
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  22. Marvin the Martian

    Marvin the Martian Hall of Famer
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    For the record, I have no issues with doctors prescribing it with normal careful consideration. But we all KNOW that people are going to the doctor demanding the drug prophylactically. We know from over-prescribing of antibiotics and narcotics, doctors are prone to prescribe just to make the patient happy. We know all drugs carry risk. We get 1 million people taking the drug prophylactically there will be people dying who would not have died from SARS-CoV-2.
     
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  23. cosmickid

    cosmickid All-American
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    Strange how you don't link that article? Color me DUBIOUS that EVERY PATIENT in a hospital is being treated with the drug...Since I suffer from both heart disease AND heart failure (for which I have an ICD implant), I'd prefer they NOT give it to me... So to answer YOUR question, Yep, I'd probably refuse it...

    "Dr. Megan L. Ranney, an emergency physician at Brown University in Rhode Island, said in an interview on Sunday night that she had never seen an elected official advertise a miracle cure the way Mr. Trump has.

    “There are side effects to hydroxychloroquine,” Dr. Ranney said. “It causes psychiatric symptoms, cardiac problems and a host of other bad side effects.”

    Dr. Ranney said that the drug could be effective for some patients, but that there was not nearly enough scientific evidence to support Mr. Trump’s claims.

    “There may be a role for it for some people,” she said, “but to tell Americans ‘you don’t have anything to lose,’ that’s not true. People certainly have something to lose by taking it indiscriminately.”

    Hydroxychloroquine has not been proved to work against Covid-19 in any significant clinical trials. A small trial by Chinese researchers made public last week found that it helped speed the recovery in moderately ill patients, but the study was not peer-reviewed and had significant limitations. Earlier reports from France and China have drawn criticism because they did not include control groups to compare treated patients with untreated ones, and researchers have called the reports anecdotal. Without controls, they said, it is impossible to determine whether the drugs worked."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/us/politics/trump-hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus.html

    Not surprisingly, Rudy is one of the loudest voices pushing for the drug as a "miracle cure"...However, the majority of experts seem to disagree... From the same NYT article...

    "Since patients with heart troubles and other underlying conditions are more likely to be severely affected by the coronavirus, they may also be at higher risk of dangerous side effects from hydroxychloroquine, said Dr. Kenneth B. Klein, a consultant who works for drug companies to design and evaluate their clinical trials.

    “What have we got to lose?” Dr. Klein said, echoing Mr. Trump’s remarks. “We’ve got patients to lose from dangerous side effects.”

    Mr. Trump did mention the potential risks to patients with heart troubles, but Dr. Klein said that even people with normal hearts are at risk for developing a fatal arrhythmia. And he said other medications could interact with hydroxychloroquine and cause serious medical complications.

    “Then the doctor would have to spend time thinking, could this drug be playing a role, either directly or indirectly?” Dr. Klein said."

    And just so we're clear on this, this is NOT a "new discovery"... Again, from the same article...

    "Other researchers have noted that while future trials may show a benefit, hydroxychloroquine has disappointed in the past, even though it has been tested as a treatment for other viruses, including influenza.

    “Hydroxychloroquine has been studied as a possible antiviral therapy for many decades,” said Dr. Luciana Borio, who oversaw public health preparedness for the National Security Council in Mr. Trump’s White House and was the acting chief scientist at the F.D.A. under President Barack Obama.

    “Despite showing evidence of activity against several viruses in the laboratory, it never showed success in randomized clinical trials.”
     
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  24. Circlejoe

    Circlejoe All-Big Ten
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    Hey Ladoga, you don't have a fish tank at home by chance, do you? :D
     
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  25. cosmickid

    cosmickid All-American
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    Really? THAT is the ONLY reason why hydroxychloroquine is controversial? Because Trump?

    First let's look at a WSJ commentary posted by 2 former Trump Admin officials on Jan 28, which would seem to contradict your earlier claims that Trump did everything possible to prepare the Nation and follow expert recommendations... The original is behind a paywall-here is an excerpt from the Jan 29 edition of pharmacist.com ...

    "Former FDA commissioner Scott Gottlieb and Luciana Borio, former director for medical and biodefense preparedness policy at the National Security Council, warned that the coronavirus epidemic in China has features that may make it very difficult to control. "If public-health authorities don't interrupt the spread soon, the virus could infect many thousands more around the globe," they state, calling on the U.S. government to focus on preventing transmission of the coronavirus within the United States. Health care providers are currently relying on a polymerase chain reaction test conducted only at CDC. "Government should focus on working with private industry to develop easy-to-use, rapid diagnostic tests that can be made available to providers," according to Gottlieb and Borio. They add that it is not too late to boost flu vaccination efforts, which would reduce the burden that influenza puts on doctors and hospitals. Additionally, government agencies, medical product developers, and public-private partnerships such as the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations have started to develop vaccines and therapies. The demand for investigational vaccines and therapies will be very high, but it is hard to assemble the resources and expertise to run clinical trials during an outbreak, and they are important for determining whether treatments are safe and effective. "It would help to start planning for these studies now," the authors conclude."

    https://www.pharmacist.com/article/commentary-act-now-prevent-american-epidemic

    And now let's analyze your claim that the ONLY reason hydroxychloroquine is "controversial" is because... Trump. Again I refer you to the same ex-Trump official (Luciana Borio) who sounded the warning back in January...

    "Other researchers have noted that while future trials may show a benefit, hydroxychloroquine has disappointed in the past, even though it has been tested as a treatment for other viruses, including influenza.

    “Hydroxychloroquine has been studied as a possible antiviral therapy for many decades,” said Dr. Luciana Borio, who oversaw public health preparedness for the National Security Council in Mr. Trump’s White House and was the acting chief scientist at the F.D.A. under President Barack Obama.

    “Despite showing evidence of activity against several viruses in the laboratory, it never showed success in randomized clinical trials.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/us/politics/trump-hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus.html

    Now I'm no expert. But it sounds like the skepticism over the use of hydroxychloroquine has a lot more to do with Trump pushing a fairly controversial remedy/ product (as he is wont to do) than it does overt bias against Trump.
     
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  26. CO. Hoosier

    CO. Hoosier Hall of Famer
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    See. The hysteria is Trump related. It has nothing to do with legitimate scientiic studies.

    The drug, known as chloroquine phosphate or chloroquine, has been bandied about by President Trump during White House briefings on the coronavirus pandemic as a potential “game changer” in the treatment of Covid-19.​


     
  27. INRanger27

    INRanger27 All-American
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    Dumb
     
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  28. outside shooter

    outside shooter Hall of Famer
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    Some Swedish hospitals have backed away from using chloroquine due to side effects

    https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/carl-40-fick-kramp-och-syn-problem-av-coronamedicin/

    (can click to get English translation)

    Hedvig Glans, section manager of the infection unit at Karolinska University Hospital, writes that chloroquine was given to the more oxygen-demanding corona patients and that a thorough investigation was done before the drug was used.

    Furthermore, Hedvig Glans writes that the use of chloroquine has decreased.

    "By following developments, the scientific compilations and studies in progress, the use of chloroquine phosphate is being re-evaluated daily, and this has currently been greatly reduced and is not used routinely." , writes Hedvig Glans
     
  29. CO. Hoosier

    CO. Hoosier Hall of Famer
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    one more anecdote:

     
  30. sglowrider

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    Donald Trump 'lost $1bn in a month' from coronavirus lockdown
    Stock market crash strips billionaire status from 267 of world’s richest people in the annual list

    Donald Trump lost an estimated $1bn of his paper fortune in the past month as the coronavirus lockdown forced the closure of offices, shopping centres, hotels and golf courses he owns.

    The US president’s fortune has fallen from an estimated $3.1bn (£2.5bn) on 1 March to $2.1bn on 18 March (at the height of stock market panic caused by the coronavirus pandemic) according to Forbes magazine’s annual billionaires list.

    Most of Trump’s wealth comes from his real estate. His Trump Organization empire – which is managed by his sons Donald Jr and Eric – includes Trump Tower in Manhattan and his Mar-a-Lago club in Florida, which the president likes to call his “winter White House”). There are also more than a dozen hotels and golf courses, such as the Trump International Hotel on the Las Vegas strip and the Trump International Golf Links in Aberdeenshire, Scotland.

    World governments and many US states have forced the closure of all non-essential businesses across the world, leaving offices and hotels empty and golf courses deserted.

    The Trump Organization has closed 17 of its properties across the world, according to the Washington Post. Those that are still open are running skeleton services. About 1,500 Trump Organization staff have been laid off or furloughed, according to public filings reviewed by the newspaper.

    The closed properties generated about $650,000-a-day for the company, according to the president’s previous financial disclosures. :rolleyes:

    The Trump Organization last week sought guidance from Florida’s Palm Beach county about whether it expected the company to continue making monthly payments on land it leases for a 27-hole golf club, the New York Times reported. Trump representatives have also reached out to Deutsche Bank, the company’s largest creditor, about the possibility of postponing payments on some of its loans.


    Fots n' prairz!
     
  31. mainway_toys

    mainway_toys All-Big Ten
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