Trump and Hydroxychloroquine

Discussion in 'The Water Cooler' started by Bill4411, Apr 7, 2020.

  1. Bill4411

    Bill4411 All-American
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    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dona..._5e8c41d7c5b6e1d10a696280?ncid=APPLENEWS00001

    President Donald Trump reportedly owns a stake in a company that produces hydroxychloroquine, the anti-malaria drug he has repeatedly touted as a coronavirus treatment even though his experts say there’s no strong evidence it works.

    Trump “has a small personal financial interest” in Sanofi, the French drugmaker that makes Plaquenil, the brand-name version of hydroxychloroquine, The New York Times reported Monday.

    In addition, Sanofi’s largest shareholders include a mutual fund company run by major Republican donor Ken Fisher, the paper said. Trump’s three family trusts, as of last year, each had investments in a mutual fund whose largest holding was Sanofi, according to the Times. Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross also had ties to the drugmaker, the Times reported.
     
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  2. IUJIM

    IUJIM Moderator
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    Well, I will tell you what. If Trump profits (which is your implication here) off of a drug that came out in 1955, has been widely used since then, is branded through a multiple of names, and manufactured by multiple companies, and sells worldwide for about $5/month, I will buy you a steak dinner. And the outrage, that Trump owns a mutual fund that has a significant holding in it?? My God, the guy must be a genius.

    There is so much low hanging fruit with Trump, but posts like these really shows the level at which people are willing just to throw anything they can against the wall, and hope it sticks.
     
  3. INRanger27

    INRanger27 All-American
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    This is a non-story. The drug is genericized and made just about everywhere. The chances that there is any gain financially here are nearly zero. Sanofi makes billions of their innovative brands and vaccines, not off of this miracle-drug-of-the-day that’s made elsewhere too.
     
  4. CO. Hoosier

    CO. Hoosier Hall of Famer
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    There is one single reason why hydroxychloroquine is controversial: Trump pushed it. Period.
     
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  5. INRanger27

    INRanger27 All-American
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    That’s patently stupid. Patently.

    It has zero scientific data to back up its supposed effects on COVID-19. That’s why it’s controversial.
     
  6. CO. Hoosier

    CO. Hoosier Hall of Famer
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    That's not even a nice try, Ranger. The lack of data argument is only to make those in the "orange buffoon" camp feel like they say something important.

    Hundreds if not thousands of physicians are using it around the world--without controversy. There are no double blind tests for this use of hydroxychloroquine, but that's not the same as saying there is no data. Many patients see improvement after taking the drug, others don't.
     
  7. Marvin the Martian

    Marvin the Martian Hall of Famer
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    It reminds me of people pushing vitamin C for common colds. There is almost no scientific literature to support that, and I shake my head at people touting it as a wonder weapon against the cold. https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/cold-guide/vitamin-c-for-common-cold#1.

    Right now, CBD oil is similar. There are some conditions it seems to treat, but people are swearing by it for everything. "I was shot in the heart, but CBD saved me". It may be CBD is a miracle cure for most of our maladies, but with the science we now have it is just something else to shake our heads at.
     
  8. mainway_toys

    mainway_toys All-Big Ten
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  9. JamieDimonsBalls

    JamieDimonsBalls All-Big Ten
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    I would argue it has mixed data. There have been some international studies that indicate it was effective. I think it's because the President is talking in absolutes instead of being thoughtful, which should surprise nobody. If he messaged it similarly to some medical providers that have used it, there would not be the hysteria about it.
     
  10. INRanger27

    INRanger27 All-American
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    You’re completely out of your element champ. You’ve no clue what you’re talking about and I’m just about done with you forever on this forum.

    Until there is a designed experiment at scale, you’re pissing in the wind. Just shut up when you have no freaking clue what you’re saying.
     
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  11. Marvin the Martian

    Marvin the Martian Hall of Famer
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    Hundreds, if not thousands, of doctors around the world have not prescribed the drug for treatment. Most people receiving no hydroxychloroquine get better (about 97% roughly recover). Of course the 3% failure rate is way too high. But does that mean nothing is a great treatment? We just do not KNOW about these other drugs. One French study and one Chinese study suggest it works, great. But let's not start trusting the Chinese on this as it is clear they haven't been trustworthy on this disease.
     
  12. CO. Hoosier

    CO. Hoosier Hall of Famer
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  13. Standard Issue

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    Cliff Clavin
     
  14. CO. Hoosier

    CO. Hoosier Hall of Famer
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    If you had something important to say you wouldn't post an ad hominem.

    I know what a double blind study is, I know what off label use is, I know what is publicly known about hydroxychloroquine and coronavirus, I know what Trump said, I know what the reaction has been to what HE said, I know you are out of arguments so you take off on me.

    Buh bye.
     
  15. Bill4411

    Bill4411 All-American
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    I don't like a president pushing any drug that has yet to be proven to be effective. We need for the FDA to assess it before it is used. Is anyone here old enough to remember thalidomide? While other countries authorized it's use our FDA did not and thus we did not suffer the horrible birth defects that many European countries suffered. Trump promoting this drug going around our established institutions is just plain wrong.
     
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  16. CO. Hoosier

    CO. Hoosier Hall of Famer
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    Yeah, I remember Thalidomide. That's a bad analogy. Hydroxychloroquine isn't new. As I posted elsewhere, my stoker took it for 2 years with no ill effects. The course of Coronavirus is on the order of a month or so. The drug is safe. The question is its efficacy for this purpose.
     
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  17. hoosboot

    hoosboot Hall of Famer
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    I'll ask this again of the same article. Did you even read your own link?

    "Senate Majority Leader Mike Shirkey, a Clarklake Republican, told The Detroit News that he asked the governor to issue the original letter to prevent people from hoarding the drugs and thus depriving non-coronavirus patients of their medicine."

    Horsehockey, indeed.
     
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  18. Bill4411

    Bill4411 All-American
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    Any drug has side effects and if you don't need it you should not take them. I'm glad your wife no longer needs to take the medication. My uncle who was stationed in Panama was told to take chloroguine but he stopped taking because it was changing his skin color-of course he then got Malaria but no one was going to tell him what to do.
     
  19. Stuffshot

    Stuffshot All-American
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    I'm not sure it's ultimately a major offense either, but it is also true that Trump is the one that made the fruit "low hanging" by failing to put his holdings into a trust or otherwise divest control over it so these side issues about emoluments don't arise.

    Wouldn't Trump himself benefit by avoiding these avoidable issues? Of course he would. It's clear at this week's press conferences that he and his associates like Navarro are vehemently distracted by any criticism whatsoever or even mere disagreement.

    And let's face it -- Trump probably was never reading quarterly financial reports and directly managing his holdings in the first place, so he wouldn't have lost much had he put those into a trust like other Presidents. The fact that he didn't do so tells us all that he never ever intended to devote 100% of his time to being President.
     
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  20. CO. Hoosier

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    Yeah I read that. And when she issued the order that was part of her justification--as it was for the Nevada order. I also read about, and personally know of, physicians who wrote prescriptions for hydroxychloroquine for personal and family use which created short term supply shortages at some hospitals and pharmacies. However the drug is easily produced. But Whitmer simultaneously took the effort to directly contradict what Trump said as she did often during that time. The relationship has improved.
     
  21. JamieDimonsBalls

    JamieDimonsBalls All-Big Ten
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    You get a like
     
  22. hoosboot

    hoosboot Hall of Famer
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    So, when you said "Governor Whitmer's orders about the drug had nothing to do with the French study. She reacted to TRUMP! and then reversed course because her order was stupid politics" you knew you were lying?
     
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  23. Marvin the Martian

    Marvin the Martian Hall of Famer
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    So are they writing scripts for hydroxychloroquine for people who have no disease at all? Can you and i just walk into a doctor with a list of 200 diseases and ask for scripts for them with no indication we have any of them?
     
  24. CO. Hoosier

    CO. Hoosier Hall of Famer
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    Of course any drug has side effects. Off label use of drugs is very common. I've actually taken the time to try and understand how hydroxychloroquine works on Covid including talking to my microbiologist friend about it. The drug is not an anti-viral but it does seem to inhibit what the virus does at cellular level. It calms down immune system overreaction. My stoker took it or an autoimmune condition. Anything more than that is beyond my pay grade.
     
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  25. CO. Hoosier

    CO. Hoosier Hall of Famer
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    Yes.
    No.
     
  26. IUJIM

    IUJIM Moderator
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    It has been stated, and I really don't have the inclination to take the time to look it up, that any investments that Trump owns is managed by JP Morgan, and without any Trump involvement in the investment decisions. Not sure if I heard that on CNBC, or read it somewhere, but I believe that to be true. I also recall that Trump, in what little (relatively speaking) of his net worth is in the market, was primarily index funds, and a few actively managed mutual funds. I am quite sure that someone here will tell me how vile that is, for him to be doing anything like that, but I really doubt that he is profiting off of his press conferences touting the use of hydroxychloroquine.
     
  27. cosmickid

    cosmickid All-American
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    Did you even read your own link.?This story actually confirmed what was previously posted on this board in an earlier discussion. Trump is the one who tried to play politics, not Whitmer. Whitmer's order was not about Trump but was actually a response to a GOP MEMBER'S request to limit the use by COVID patients to protect the supply for people with Lupus and others who had been prescribed and relied on chloroquine...

    "Senate Majority Leader Mike Shirkey, a Clarklake Republican, told The Detroit News that he asked the governor to issue the original letter to prevent people from hoarding the drugs and thus depriving non-coronavirus patients of their medicine.

    "We needed something to prevent [chloroquine] from becoming the next toilet paper," he told Miles. "I quickly requested of her staff that they put something out, and somehow in the translation, it was prohibiting the use of these drugs — and that wasn't the intent."

    I have to wonder how many times in discussions about the stimulus you shared that other popular Trump talking point, regarding funds for the Kennedy Center? You know the one where it was included because it was Pelosi/Dem's pet project and even the wild claims that Pelosi's daughter was on the Board... Even FB felt that nonsense violated their attempts to combat false information and flagged it...

    "Nancy Pelosi is an ex officio member, designated by an act of Congress, according to the Kennedy Center’s website. So are Trump administration officials such as Education Secretary Betsy DeVos and Republican lawmakers like Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell; Rep. Kevin McCarthy, the Republican leader of the House; and Sen. Roy Blunt of Missouri. HuffPost reported the original budget request for the Kennedy Center came from a Kennedy Center staffer (Tracy Henke) who was formerly a top aide to Blunt."

    https://www.politifact.com/factchec...y-pelosis-daughter-isnt-kennedy-center-board/
     
  28. hoosboot

    hoosboot Hall of Famer
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    Okay, Marvin, you win the bet. ;)
     
  29. hoot1

    hoot1 Hall of Famer
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    I would be a great deal more confident about the Malaria Drug being an effecti've alternative if Fauci gave a firm endorsement.
     
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  30. Bill4411

    Bill4411 All-American
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    Interesting. My understanding of why the Spanish flu was so deadly was because people in the prime of their lives (18-40) immune systems went into overdrive which is why they succumbed at such a shockingly high rate.
     
  31. CO. Hoosier

    CO. Hoosier Hall of Famer
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    Fauci said he would take it if he were striken; as part of a study. The interviewer didn't follow up with the next obvious question: If you are part of a study, would you be okay being in the group who gets the placebo?
     
  32. mainway_toys

    mainway_toys All-Big Ten
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    I hate Trump more than anyone you're likely to encounter. I think you realize that by now. Even so, if this were some kind of game-changing miracle cure I'd be all for it. It isn't. Trump is (yet again) selling a fantasy.

    BTW, here's the golden quote from the link I posted:

    “Although the study started with 26 patients in the HQ or HQ+AZ group, data from only 20 treated patients are given, because not all patients completed the 6-day study. The data for these 20 patients looks incredibly nice; especially the patients who were given both medications all recovered very fast.

    What happened to the other six treated patients? Why did they drop out of the study? Three of them were transferred to the intensive care unit (presumably because they got sicker) and 1 died. The other two patients were either too nauseous and stopped the medication, or left the hospital […] So 4 of the 26 treated patients were actually not recovering at all.”
     
  33. CO. Hoosier

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    It's my understanding that Covid does the same. Hydroxychloroquine is an immunosuppressant; which seems counter-intuitive. I guess that is why the docs presecribe Z-pack at the same time.
     
  34. Marvin the Martian

    Marvin the Martian Hall of Famer
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    What is the difference? I don't quite understand prescribing a drug for people who have no condition. Especially when people with lupus are reporting issues getting it and we know it works. Do we prescribe AIDS drugs to people in high risk categories who do not have AIDS?
     
  35. CO. Hoosier

    CO. Hoosier Hall of Famer
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    I also heard a Whitmer interview of about 15 minutes or so where this issue, and her relationship in general with Trump, was brought up. That also influences my view. Don't forget she gave the STOTU Democrat response, and thinks she should be Biden's running mate, so she has a role to fill.
     
  36. hoot1

    hoot1 Hall of Famer
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    My kind of President would step aside and not render medical or scientific opinions.

    Like it or not, there are people including those in the medical field who may turn against a cure just because they don't like or trust our president.
     
  37. INRanger27

    INRanger27 All-American
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    Because you supposedly know what all that is makes you sound even dumber on the topic.

    Until there is a controlled trial done on the drug to show its efficacy over placebo or non-intervention, you’re just another guy on Fox
    telling people to go buy gold.

    WHO is conducting a study right now and in the right way. We’ll see what it says. Methinks if they find it ineffective you won’t accept that because you’re an asshole.
     
  38. CO. Hoosier

    CO. Hoosier Hall of Famer
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    The name brand drug is off patent.
     
  39. outside shooter

    outside shooter Hall of Famer
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  40. JamieDimonsBalls

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    Here is a better analysis with a similar conclusion (conflicting results from smallish studies). The largest one of the group was conducted in Wuhan (31 patients and showed favorable results)

    [​IMG]

    https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/03/31/comparing-chloroquine-trials
     
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