Truck deliberately mows down people at Pride Parade

TommyCracker

Hall of Famer
Mar 18, 2004
13,719
10,186
113
At some point, A guy like you should probably ask yourself, “why did I want this to be a hate crime? Why would it have been so ****ing cool if this were a hate crime and I could’ve used this to attack conservatives?”

There’s no right answer. You’re part of the problem. I expect you to join the solution. Or don’t. Your call.
As a lib, I don't know if we were cheering for this to be a hate crime.

I believe it's fear, possibly gaslighted fear.

We fear white male rage (well I do). There is a Trump stereotype that's been created (the uneducated, rural, racist, monster truck, gun tootin wannabe soldier that's being told there is a culture war coming to get him and he's primed to take the cause into his own hands).

So when a story pops up that someone in a pickup truck ran through and killed dudes celebrating a pride parade....yeah my first thought is it's that boogieman I just described.
 

mcmurtry66

Hall of Famer
Mar 14, 2019
10,678
8,528
113
As a lib, I don't know if we were cheering for this to be a hate crime.

I believe it's fear, possibly gaslighted fear.

We fear white male rage (well I do). There is a Trump stereotype that's been created (the uneducated, rural, racist, monster truck, gun tootin wannabe soldier that's being told there is a culture war coming to get him and he's primed to take the cause into his own hands).

So when a story pops up that someone in a pickup truck ran through and killed dudes celebrating a pride parade....yeah my first thought is it's that boogieman I just described.
You are not cosmic
 

DANC

Hall of Famer
Gold Member
Dec 21, 2001
12,486
16,871
113
Malicious propaganda has always . ALWAYS .. targeted rural uneducated conservative rubes. From Roguespierre to Pol Pot, to Hitler, to Imams, to Magats. Goebbels didn't target the educated liberals in Hamburg or Berlin, they targeted the conservative country bumpkin rubes in Bavaria. Using propaganda techniques on educated socially/sexually functional people, doesn't work and is a waste of time.

Keep spinning the up is down, down is up narrative .. which is another form of common propaganda... and one that leaves you looking foolish in the end.

Bunch of goose steppers ..
Who is "Roguespierre"?

Or did you mean "Robespierre"?

Never try to come across as someone who knows history - you're as big a rube as those you bitch about.
 

INRanger27

All-American
Jan 11, 2005
9,093
10,371
113
As a lib, I don't know if we were cheering for this to be a hate crime.

I believe it's fear, possibly gaslighted fear.

We fear white male rage (well I do). There is a Trump stereotype that's been created (the uneducated, rural, racist, monster truck, gun tootin wannabe soldier that's being told there is a culture war coming to get him and he's primed to take the cause into his own hands).

So when a story pops up that someone in a pickup truck ran through and killed dudes celebrating a pride parade....yeah my first thought is it's that boogieman I just described.
I appreciate your honesty. Now fix it.
 

DANC

Hall of Famer
Gold Member
Dec 21, 2001
12,486
16,871
113
As a lib, I don't know if we were cheering for this to be a hate crime.

I believe it's fear, possibly gaslighted fear.

We fear white male rage (well I do). There is a Trump stereotype that's been created (the uneducated, rural, racist, monster truck, gun tootin wannabe soldier that's being told there is a culture war coming to get him and he's primed to take the cause into his own hands).

So when a story pops up that someone in a pickup truck ran through and killed dudes celebrating a pride parade....yeah my first thought is it's that boogieman I just described.
Oh good Lord.....
 
  • Like
Reactions: Crayfish57

jet812

All-Big Ten
Feb 28, 2008
4,002
2,839
113
As a lib, I don't know if we were cheering for this to be a hate crime.

I believe it's fear, possibly gaslighted fear.

We fear white male rage (well I do). There is a Trump stereotype that's been created (the uneducated, rural, racist, monster truck, gun tootin wannabe soldier that's being told there is a culture war coming to get him and he's primed to take the cause into his own hands).

So when a story pops up that someone in a pickup truck ran through and killed dudes celebrating a pride parade....yeah my first thought is it's that boogieman I just described.
And yet some claim liberals are not susceptible to propaganda…
 

Courtsensetwo

Hall of Famer
Oct 16, 2004
27,484
13,405
113
Malicious propaganda has always . ALWAYS .. targeted rural uneducated conservative rubes. From Roguespierre to Pol Pot, to Hitler, to Imams, to Magats. Goebbels didn't target the educated liberals in Hamburg or Berlin, they targeted the conservative country bumpkin rubes in Bavaria. Using propaganda techniques on educated socially/sexually functional people, doesn't work and is a waste of time.

Keep spinning the up is down, down is up narrative .. which is another form of common propaganda... and one that leaves you looking foolish in the end.

Bunch of goose steppers ..
You seem bitter about the facts that emerged from this story. Why?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Crayfish57

Courtsensetwo

Hall of Famer
Oct 16, 2004
27,484
13,405
113
Mayor of Fort Lauderdale labels it a "deliberate, terrorist act"... One person dead, another critical...


FL recently enacted a law that essentially protects motorists who run over demonstrators.
However this was an official event, so it will be interesting to see how that new law is applied...

Are you coming back to report the rest of the story, or are you as upset that this was not a hate crime as tmp is?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Crayfish57

Courtsensetwo

Hall of Famer
Oct 16, 2004
27,484
13,405
113
Everyone is susceptible to propaganda
This is correct...with the current political environment of blindly cheering for laundry regardless of the message all fueled by 24/7 hyper partisan media outlets shoveling red meat to their fan base. I don't know where this ends but I have never seen educated people act in such an uneducated manner in my life.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DANC

Courtsensetwo

Hall of Famer
Oct 16, 2004
27,484
13,405
113
Ten seconds on Google. Here's one example:



On Monday, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis signed an “anti-riot” bill that allows harsher police crackdowns on demonstrators—an apparent response to the “defund the police” and Black Lives Matter movements. (“This bill actually prevents local governments from defunding law enforcement,” DeSantis said.) A public gathering of three or more people can be classified as a “riot” under the law, and anyone who “willingly” participates in such a gathering can be charged with a third-degree felony. Plus, participants in rallies that turn violent can be also be charged with a third-degree felony even if they had no involvement with the violence. Most jarring of all, the law grants civil immunity to drivers who ram into protesting crowds and even injure or kill participants, if they claim the protests made them concerned for their own well-being in the moment.
You are often a reasonable thinker so i want you take on the FL bill aspect of hitting people with a car. I cannot imagine even the most staunch Maganista or AOCist could defend plowing into a crowd.

So what about when your car is surrounded by angry protesters pounding on the car pulling on the doors...we have all seen it multiple times. Do you have the right to take of, hitting people to escape or must you stay and hope for the best? Is this where the bill language is focused?
 

larsIU

Senior
Gold Member
Apr 17, 2010
2,023
2,438
113
You are often a reasonable thinker so i want you take on the FL bill aspect of hitting people with a car. I cannot imagine even the most staunch Maganista or AOCist could defend plowing into a crowd.

So what about when your car is surrounded by angry protesters pounding on the car pulling on the doors...we have all seen it multiple times. Do you have the right to take of, hitting people to escape or must you stay and hope for the best? Is this where the bill language is focused?
Yeah, but there are still self defense claims to be made should anybody be charged for fleeing a situation like that. To take from the 2nd Amendment crowd, "Why do we need another law, enforce the ones on the books".
 
  • Like
Reactions: DANC and UncleMark

Hoopsdoc1978

All-Big Ten
Apr 13, 2016
3,195
2,650
113
43
Epsom Indiana
Ten seconds on Google. Here's one example:



On Monday, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis signed an “anti-riot” bill that allows harsher police crackdowns on demonstrators—an apparent response to the “defund the police” and Black Lives Matter movements. (“This bill actually prevents local governments from defunding law enforcement,” DeSantis said.) A public gathering of three or more people can be classified as a “riot” under the law, and anyone who “willingly” participates in such a gathering can be charged with a third-degree felony. Plus, participants in rallies that turn violent can be also be charged with a third-degree felony even if they had no involvement with the violence. Most jarring of all, the law grants civil immunity to drivers who ram into protesting crowds and even injure or kill participants, if they claim the protests made them concerned for their own well-being in the moment.
IANAL, but I don’t believe civil immunity would apply in a situation like this, where it was quite obviously a criminal act.
 

mcmurtry66

Hall of Famer
Mar 14, 2019
10,678
8,528
113
Yeah, but there are still self defense claims to be made should anybody be charge for fleeing a situation like that. To take from the 2nd Amendment crowd, "Why do we need another law, enforce the ones on the books".
1. The Fla bill cleans it up making the defense cleaner
2. Political optics for DeSantis to show what side of the fence he’s on
3. Has nothing to do with this stupid OP. This was a parade.
 
Last edited:

mcmurtry66

Hall of Famer
Mar 14, 2019
10,678
8,528
113
IANAL, but I don’t believe civil immunity would apply in a situation like this, where it was quite obviously a criminal act.
The law provides civil immunity too, but for riots not parades. This guy has no immunity from anything. It was a pride parade. I don’t know why the anti riot law was even invoked. Oh wait cosmic and twitter....
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hoopsdoc1978

Courtsensetwo

Hall of Famer
Oct 16, 2004
27,484
13,405
113
Yeah, but there are still self defense claims to be made should anybody be charged for fleeing a situation like that. To take from the 2nd Amendment crowd, "Why do we need another law, enforce the ones on the books".
I see your point and I think 66 answers why above.
 
  • Like
Reactions: larsIU

UncleMark

Hall of Famer
Sep 1, 2001
23,095
21,653
113
1. The Fla bill cleans it up making the defense cleaner
2. Political optics for DeSantis to show what side of the fence he’s on
3. Has nothing to do with this stupid OP. This was a parade.

This is the answer. No new legislation was necessary.

I'm also skeptical of any defense that can be based on "I was askeered." It's used way too often (bogusly) by police to justify unjustified shootings. Not a good concept to expand.
 
  • Like
Reactions: larsIU

mcmurtry66

Hall of Famer
Mar 14, 2019
10,678
8,528
113
This is the answer. No new legislation was necessary.

I'm also skeptical of any defense that can be based on "I was askeered." It's used way too often (bogusly) by police to justify unjustified shootings. Not a good concept to expand.
I know that’s why he did it, of course, but we’ve all seen images of crazies attacking cars, getting on the hood etc.

If the crazies are on my hood beating my doors and I’ve got my two kids in the car I don’t want to fight about self defense and whether I was really in danger given we had 5,000 pounds of steel wrapped around us. I’d rather a specific law I can point to after I run them over.

We just saw the political vagaries of prosecutor’s offices with mccloskeys’ charges and disposition. I’d rather remove discretion.

Edit: should have actually looked at the law. It doesn’t provide immunity from prosecution
 
Last edited:

Courtsensetwo

Hall of Famer
Oct 16, 2004
27,484
13,405
113
This is the answer. No new legislation was necessary.

I'm also skeptical of any defense that can be based on "I was askeered." It's used way too often (bogusly) by police to justify unjustified shootings. Not a good concept to expand.
So, if a beating of you or your family is inevitable...lay back and enjoy it?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Crayfish57

UncleMark

Hall of Famer
Sep 1, 2001
23,095
21,653
113
So, if a beating of you or your family is inevitable...lay back and enjoy it?
Okay, so I find my self surrounded by "rioters" beating on my car and screaming at me. I'm justified in putting it to the floor and getting the fvck out of there no matter how many people I mow down in the process? Is that the thinking? When am I obliged to let off the gas? Am I allowed to leave the scene altogether? Just trying to find out how scared I need to be and how much damage I'm allowed to do to.
 
  • Like
Reactions: IU_Hickory

mcmurtry66

Hall of Famer
Mar 14, 2019
10,678
8,528
113
Okay, so I find my self surrounded by "rioters" beating on my car and screaming at me. I'm justified in putting it to the floor and getting the fvck out of there no matter how many people I mow down in the process? Is that the thinking? When am I obliged to let off the gas? Am I allowed to leave the scene altogether? Just trying to find out how scared I need to be and how much damage I'm allowed to do to.
Yes
 
  • Like
Reactions: Crayfish57 and DANC

ButHerEmails

Senior
Sep 28, 2019
2,148
2,061
113
Okay, so I find my self surrounded by "rioters" beating on my car and screaming at me. I'm justified in putting it to the floor and getting the fvck out of there no matter how many people I mow down in the process? Is that the thinking? When am I obliged to let off the gas? Am I allowed to leave the scene altogether? Just trying to find out how scared I need to be and how much damage I'm allowed to do to.
I believe you would be justified in flooring it and getting yourself and family to safety. I would do the same thing. As for hanging out after you run over people and their already pissed-off-looking-for-a-fight friends are nearby? I ain’t hanging out. You can hang out if you want.
 

mcmurtry66

Hall of Famer
Mar 14, 2019
10,678
8,528
113
This is the answer. No new legislation was necessary.

I'm also skeptical of any defense that can be based on "I was askeered." It's used way too often (bogusly) by police to justify unjustified shootings. Not a good concept to expand.
I just looked up the law. There isn’t blanket immunity from crim prosecution. There’s just civil immunity, affirmative defenses etc
 

jet812

All-Big Ten
Feb 28, 2008
4,002
2,839
113
Yeah, but there are still self defense claims to be made should anybody be charged for fleeing a situation like that. To take from the 2nd Amendment crowd, "Why do we need another law, enforce the ones on the books".
The irony of citing the 2nd Amendment to suggest that no new laws are needed…
 

jet812

All-Big Ten
Feb 28, 2008
4,002
2,839
113
Okay, so I find my self surrounded by "rioters" beating on my car and screaming at me. I'm justified in putting it to the floor and getting the fvck out of there no matter how many people I mow down in the process? Is that the thinking? When am I obliged to let off the gas? Am I allowed to leave the scene altogether? Just trying to find out how scared I need to be and how much damage I'm allowed to do to.
Yes, run them all over if they are in the road. If you don’t want to get run over, don’t participate in riots & assaults on the roadway.
 

Courtsensetwo

Hall of Famer
Oct 16, 2004
27,484
13,405
113
Okay, so I find my self surrounded by "rioters" beating on my car and screaming at me. I'm justified in putting it to the floor and getting the fvck out of there no matter how many people I mow down in the process? Is that the thinking? When am I obliged to let off the gas? Am I allowed to leave the scene altogether? Just trying to find out how scared I need to be and how much damage I'm allowed to do to.
In my world you have the right to move your car to safety and call the police, even if that means dragging someone or hitting someone(s). If the mostly peaceful mob chases you you have the right to move as far as necessary.

The key would be "escape". Should you back up and double down on some asshole just because you think it is TMP or Vid hopped up on Tide Pods...you have some 'splain'n to do.
 

Rockport Zebra

All-American
Jan 30, 2002
7,398
2,076
113
Seems the poor guy was designated to lead the parade in his truck because he had health issues and couldn't walk. He reportedly cooperated with the Police. The Congresswoman from the district looks bad for playing the before the facts accusation game.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 76-1 and DANC

hookyIU1990

All-American
Gold Member
Sep 26, 2007
6,471
8,482
113
Seems the poor guy was designated to lead the parade in his truck because he had health issues and couldn't walk. He reportedly cooperated with the Police. The Congresswoman from the district looks bad for playing the before the facts accusation game.
The Mayor of Lauderdale is the biggest cheesedick of them all. He's still the only one who claimed the driver was screaming vulgarities afterwards.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 76-1

outside shooter

Hall of Famer
Gold Member
Oct 23, 2001
20,925
8,351
113
I know people in Wilton Manors and Oakland Park. This story was pretty odd from the beginning. The fact that it was an old guy who probably operates at a sub-Danc physical and cognitive level made it suspicious all along that it was an accident.
 
Last edited:

Courtsensetwo

Hall of Famer
Oct 16, 2004
27,484
13,405
113
Shootings happened at Juneteenth events in CA, CO, MI including a woman killed in Flint after shooting at a cop directing traffic for the parade.
 

DANC

Hall of Famer
Gold Member
Dec 21, 2001
12,486
16,871
113
I know people in Wilton Manors and Oakland Park. This story was pretty odd from the beginning. The fact that it was an old guy who probably operates at a sub-Danc physical and cognitive level made it suspicious all along that it was an accident.
Living in your head, rent free......
 
Mar 3, 2020
1,326
899
113
Lol oh they can be vicious. Like a pack of angry Pomeranians. I had no idea either until I counseled my old law partner through a host of hateful events in his gay man’s chorus. Spanned a decade. And the guy was an anheuser. Loaded. But that horrible chorus meant more to him than anything.
modern family has a episode where Cameron was kicked out of a gay choir that he started , apparently the problem must be widespread so to speak