It would be awesome if somehow he picked us. But I am thinking it will be Nova.
Trey Patterson
- Thread starter Victorbmyboy
- Start date
That's so much what-ifs and hindsights. Had IU fired a coach 2 years into a massive rebuild that started from scratch in order to get a 30 something year old coach from the Horizon League, that would have sent off alarming whistles and bells around college basketball. You just don't do that. Fact of the matter is that Crean had IU as a contending team in year 4 (when his recruits finally became upperclassmen) and was the #1 team in the country most of the year in his fifth season. Ya, maybe Stevens would have beaten Syracuse, but Crean still had an elite level team. Stevens took the Celtics job in 2013 (shortly after Syracuse beat IU) and I'm guessing Stevens would have taken the Celtics job regardless if he was at IU or Butler. IU would have been in a massive hole paying Crean's buyout and the ridiculous amount of money spent to lure Stevens from Butler.
The only mistake IU made was keeping Crean after a missed tourney in 14 and a first round exit in 15. That was enough in my opinion. I'm one of Crean's biggest detractors and just couldn't stand his style of coaching, but it would have been an extremely bad look for IU to railroad Crean after 2 years given the mess he inherited.
No one will ever know. But if Glass had pulled that trigger in 10 or 11 with Stevens...we very well may have banner number 6... and we could be 8-9 years into what could end up being a decades long, Hall of Fame, Stevens at IU tenure.
Leaving a loaded IU program is VERY different, in a lot of ways, than leaving a Butler program was. No matter what the next destination was. Heck, I’d guess IU would still be attractive to him at some point if the money/timing were right.
Crean and Stevens where on the same timeline. I agree 90-99% of people fail to realize we weren’t in the market for an unproven coach. At the time, Crean had the better resume. If anyone says they crowed or pined in 2008/2009 that Stevens was the man they are lying.
I was told that by dozens of people when I wanted Crean fired and Stevens hired too.Only an absolute fool would think firing Miller now is the right thing to do. Of course you are a fool - and a funny guy!
The right calls are rarely easy. It wasn’t easy for UK to fire Gillespie after 2 years and go hire John Calipari. But they did it and they’ve reaped the benefits ever since. Which by the way we should’ve hired Calipari instead of Crean but that’s another discussion.
Crean went 12-20 his 3rd year. That was unacceptable. He would’ve been fired at a true blue blood program. But his cult following at IU couldn’t see the reality. And now they still can’t see it.
It was actually very easy for UK to fire Gillespie. He was a drunk and detriment to the university. He also acted as his own agent and didn’t have a buyout clause because he never signed a formal contract. But you knew that right?
Crean went 12-20 including 3-15 in conference in his 3rd year. What would UK have done?
You said it wasn’t easy for UK to fire Gillespie. It was the easiest decision UK made as BG had no official contract on record. Had BG had the buyout on his head like Crean did after 2 years, who knows.
I've recounted this many times, but I've known 2 college coaching families and both have said pro coaching jobs by and large are just much more coveted by most coaches nowadays, because of the better salaries, travel and they are 100% bball and you don't have to dick with recruiting and dealing with alumni, admin and the NCAA. I understand why people want to believe Brad Stevens would like to have been at IU and at one time, it probably was a very attractive destination, but from every indication he's one of those guys who prefers an NBA gig and I don't see him ever returning to college, and doubt the IU job holds any allure beyond sentimentality.
Gillispie didn’t get fired solely for performance. His antics were outrageous and his alcoholism was becoming a problem. The fact that he didn’t sign a formal contract that essentially made him coach on a year to year basis made the decision even easier.
Not to mention Crean's buyout was massive at that point. IIRC, it was around 8 figures at that point.
Your just flipping words now. You said it was a tough decision for UK to fire Billy Clyde. It wasn't at all. The alumnus and donors hated him and the administration couldn't stand his antics. Usually a hefty buyout is what prolongs a coaches tenure. The fact Gillispie wasn't on a formal contract made it the easiest decision in the world for UK.
"We can fire you and then not have to pay you......Ok see ya"!
Crean did not have a better resume. Come on.
It was known that he had one player at Marquette that punched Crean's meal ticket. D. Wade.
Crean was known to be very different: A salesman that was always overhyping; he had hit his ceiling at Marquette with D. Wade; He just ran faster; didn't know X's and O's; Played according to a prewritten script not to the game; did the bait and switch on some recruits; burned bridges with the pipeline that was traditional at Marquette; and was not a good fit for IU. All of this stuff was discussed here on this site. All of this stuff was known.
Because of the pathetically run Athletic Department at IU, we settled for Crean. But after a decent transition he needed to go. Long before he did.
I, at the time, was of the understanding that Stevens probably would not come to IU. But I didn't know. I did know about Crean. Wrong style and bad fit. But clean. Clean was really the only thing besides Wade that Crean has in the plus column.
Cody Zeller came to IU, imho, because it was IU. Not because of Crean. But again, I may be wrong on that.
Very glad that Crean is gone. Very glad that Archie Miller is head coach.
I wanted Crean out after two years but like I said before, I understood that was too aggressive at the time.
After year three though.... I thought we were dumb not to make the switch.
Remember we went 3-15 and ended the season on a massive losing streak (Crean famously burns his teams out by season end).
Firing a coach after three seasons it not unheard of. UNC dropped Doherty I believe in 3 and got the coach they always wanted in Roy.
Archie just finished his third year and some want him fired. Imagine if he went a Northwestern like 3-15 this past season?
At the same time Stevens had established himself as a feared coach.
I still think you have to make that move.
No one knew the Celtics would be calling (again more proof that best basketball minds were on to Stevens immediately).
Stevens was the equivalent of a LeBron James kind of recruit except you had a chance to keep him for 30 some years. He grew up an IU fan and played HS basketball in Indiana.
Not only was he the much better coach, with a much longer runway, who coached a more favorable style, who was an absolute perfect coach to try to heal the Knight fracture (Knight adores him as Brad is one of the few coaches Knight respects from a basketball intellect), who had an extremely clean recruiting reputation.....again I think you make that move after year 3.
Crean is going to whine like a bitch because that's what he does but three years is enough time to get out of last place at Indiana.
I guess I've never understood why so many fans are fine with overrecruiting and pushing players out of the program but thought upgrading coaches was too mean.
It’s always tough to fire a guy after two years. Then they hired the hall of fame coach we wouldn’t touch the year before.
I understand all that. But Crean's situation was entirely different. He inherited a team with ZERO scholarship players. We all knew that the ship wasn't going to be righted overnight. Like you, I wasn't a fan of Crean. I didn't like his style from the beginning. But he at least deserved a shot. Even after a terrible 3 years, he still had IU back in business in years 4 and 5. IU had sunk too much money into Crean to fire him after 3 years.
I see reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit. I said”at the time”. In 2008/2009 Crean absolutely had the better resume. Stevens was an unknown. He was an assistant for years. You must’ve had a crystal ball. They literally got hired 1 year apart.
Last edited:
You need to just go. My god you can’t compare the two. Gillispie was a drunk/philanderer with no contract. Crean was 3 years in with a solid contract. See the difference? I bet not. Moron!
Gillispie was 40-27 through 2 years.
Crean was 28-66 through 3 years.
Can you do basic math?
Yeah the math(meth in your case)= neither was good but you also can’t equate either. Apples to apples. Just go away already.
I know BG had a lot of off court issues. I’m not sure IU would have pulled the trigger that quickly. The powers that be held onto Mike Davis and Tom Crean far too long. Meanwhile Kentucky makes a questionable hire but addresses the issue and makes a swift decision and gets rid of a bad fit.
The post shows one thing that can’t be denied, Kentucky at the time had a far better Athletic director than Indiana!
BG wasn't fired strictly for on-court performance. Had BG not acted as his own agent and signed a formal contract with a buyout clause, the decision for Kentucky would have been much harder. If IU didn't owe Tom Crean 8 figures after two seasons, then yes the decision to fire Crean would have been much easier. You aren't taking any of this into account. The decision to let BG go with no monetary repercussions made the decision way easier.
I think IU or any other university would have fired Gillespie under the same circumstances. It was an easy decision to make and it was easy to do since he had no contract and no buyout.
Who? Blocked him weeks ago. I recommend it! Sucks when someone has an agenda and feels compelled to prove how right they are and will go to any extreme to do so. I'm fine with his opinions and think some/many are valid, but when you determine the outcome before the test, it invalidates everything.
How dare you talk about Patterson in a thread about Patterson.
I appreciate your feedback and enjoy your posts. But I do understand very clearly the variables that were in play.
My take is IU the last two decades has made poor hires and/or been slow to dismiss something that isn’t successful. Meanwhile Kentucky and even UNC have addressed and rectified situations in far more expedient fashion while IU struggles in mediocrity during the last 20 years.
I hope Miller works out and look forward to see how the next year or two plays out. There have have been definite gaps so far.
If you do understand the variables, then you would understand why this isn't an apples to apples comparison. Had Tom Crean not been owed 8 figures after 2 years, then yes the likelihood of IU dumping Crean for someone like Brad Stevens becomes a much stronger possibility. UK didn't fire BG because of poor performance. His life outside of coaching was becoming a detriment to the basketball program and was a black eye on the university. Had BG had an 8 figure buyout (like Crean), I'm not sure UK makes the move after 2 years. I won't disagree that UK and UNC have addressed their situations quicker (although IU doesn't have a legacy coach in-waiting like Roy Williams) but they didn't have the same situations working against them that IU did. To add, Matt Doherty resigned and UNC didn't owe him a penny.
Never said anything about apples to apples comparison. Speaking more to how the programs are handled. Perhaps Kentucky and UNC are better equipped at hiring and structuring contracts.
Or...Gillispie is an idiot who never signed a formal contract. UK lucked themselves out of that one in a big way.
