ADVERTISEMENT

Trey Kaufman

Victorbmyboy

Hall of Famer
Nov 10, 2014
11,531
12,412
113
Looks like it’s happening. Also a lot of discussion on Twitter about trey Patterson and Aminu Mohammed. What a class that would be.
 
Shooters and versatile players that can score in multiple ways and guard multiple positions. That’s what we need...Trey fits the latter about as well as anyone on our radar.
 
Shooters and versatile players that can score in multiple ways and guard multiple positions. That’s what we need...Trey fits the latter about as well as anyone on our radar.
What team doesn’t need players with those qualities? Lol
 
What team doesn’t need players with those qualities? Lol

Teams that don’t already have them.

I could have also said point guard. On the ball defender. Post man. Rebounding and defense big.
 
Yeah, it just came across as superficial and superfluous.

gotcha. Not intended. Just literal.

We need shooters. We need a few more wings that can guard multiple positions.

With Rob, Arman, and Kristian likely to be together for 2 more seasons...the ball handling guard play is fairly set. With Race and TJD next year. And Race and Lincombe the following year, were solid at the “big” position. Perimeter shooting and wing talent/versatility could be our main question marks. Post depth as well probably.

Trey Kauffman coming in 21 would be huge.
 
gotcha. Not intended. Just literal.

We need shooters. We need a few more wings that can guard multiple positions.

With Rob, Arman, and Kristian likely to be together for 2 more seasons...the ball handling guard play is fairly set. With Race and TJD next year. And Race and Lincombe the following year, were solid at the “big” position. Perimeter shooting and wing talent/versatility could be our main question marks. Post depth as well probably.

Trey Kauffman coming in 21 would be huge.
That would help a ton.
 
gotcha. Not intended. Just literal.

We need shooters. We need a few more wings that can guard multiple positions.

With Rob, Arman, and Kristian likely to be together for 2 more seasons...the ball handling guard play is fairly set. With Race and TJD next year. And Race and Lincombe the following year, were solid at the “big” position. Perimeter shooting and wing talent/versatility could be our main question marks. Post depth as well probably.

Trey Kauffman coming in 21 would be huge.

I don't get how anyone feels this way. You think we're solid in the post with 3 players (including Brunk)??? Race and TJD will probably be playing together most often, so you can include Brunk in that, but to me it still leaves us thin up front. I really think having Crean here, and his screwy roster construction, made people forget what a well-constructed roster looks like. We should have 4-5 frontcourt players on the roster devoted to the 4/5. And then, the thing you say is a question mark, perimeter shooting and wing depth, is where most of our roster spots are invested (Durham, Anderson, Franklin, Smith, Hunter, Galloway, Leal and Geronimo). If that's a question mark, then we're not recruiting the right guys. We could have used another post this year, and I always thought it was odd to take Leal, Geronimo and Galloway, with the wing players already on the roster. I think we should have had 2 of those guys, plus 1 post, but since we don't, it makes another post player in next year's class all the more imperative. Kaufman would be a huge get, and he should see alot of minutes on our roster. I look at WI as the best B10 team in developing frontcourt players. During their best years, it always seemed like they had 3-4 guys in their rotation with another post or 2 on the roster developing. MSU always seems that way too. That, imo, is where we need to be.
 
I don't get how anyone feels this way. You think we're solid in the post with 3 players (including Brunk)??? Race and TJD will probably be playing together most often, so you can include Brunk in that, but to me it still leaves us thin up front. I really think having Crean here, and his screwy roster construction, made people forget what a well-constructed roster looks like. We should have 4-5 frontcourt players on the roster devoted to the 4/5. And then, the thing you say is a question mark, perimeter shooting and wing depth, is where most of our roster spots are invested (Durham, Anderson, Franklin, Smith, Hunter, Galloway, Leal and Geronimo). If that's a question mark, then we're not recruiting the right guys. We could have used another post this year, and I always thought it was odd to take Leal, Geronimo and Galloway, with the wing players already on the roster. I think we should have had 2 of those guys, plus 1 post, but since we don't, it makes another post player in next year's class all the more imperative. Kaufman would be a huge get, and he should see alot of minutes on our roster. I look at WI as the best B10 team in developing frontcourt players. During their best years, it always seemed like they had 3-4 guys in their rotation with another post or 2 on the roster developing. MSU always seems that way too. That, imo, is where we need to be.

You could be right. We could use another post guy for depth purposes. But with TJD, Brunk, and Thomspon, we have 3 solid contributing “bigs”. If TJD leaves, that does make us more vulnerable as it’d leave us with only Race and Luncombe. I dont think TJD will be gone though. Along side those guys, youd have Hunter, who will be solid as well, and very capable of guarding/rebounding with most teams “4s”. so I don’t see a true big as as much of a need as the other things I mentioned.

I don’t think shooting concerns can be questioned. We need to shoot it better.

As for versatile wings. Well have a bunch of guards/wings.

Rob...point guard, good on the ball defender. Small. Not as good off the ball. Can’t guard anyone that is bigger and decent near the basket.

Kristian...elite level talent. Not sure he’ll be able to guard or rebound with many long wings or bigs. So he’s similar to Rob in where he can play and who he can guard.

Arman...hoping he develops and gets more minutes. He’s a guy that can guard multiple perimeter positions. Decent ball handler. I think has potential to be a reliable shooter. But he’s not going to be able to guard long wings that work inside, or are active on the boards.

Anderson...hard to say what he can do. Obviously Archie didn’t trust him enough to play him much. Which says a lot, because he should have been exactly what we need more of...and it’s not like we were getting great production from our other wing guys. So why would I think he’s a viable option?

Hunter...along with Arman, he is a big key for us. He has the size and length, and appears to have inside outside offensive skills. If he improves, and is healthy enough to play a good chunk of minutes, we’ll be a lot better for it.

Leal, Galloway, Geronimo...all these guys seem like they could be versatile wing guys. But I’d be shocked if they all “hit”. Their recruiting rankings suggest that all of them won’t. Doesn’t mean they’re bad recruits. And I’m sure over time, they’ll all become key players for us. But I’m taking about 2021s class. And we need 1 or 2 kids in that class that can come in and produce immediately.

Well have Phinisee, Lander, and Franklin as our main lead guards. 3 guys to fill 1-2 slots.

We’ll have Hunter, Leal, Galloway, and Geronimo to fill 2-3 slots.

We’ll have Hunter, Thompson, Luncombe..maybe TJD yet, to fill 1-2 spots.

Shooting is a given. Either our current guys need to make enormous strides, or we need to fill it through recruiting.

But it’s not hard to see that we’re “thin” in that 3-4 range...guys that can start a possession on a bigger wing/power forward type, but also switch up and effectively guard a perimeter guy. Hunter, maybe Geronimo...are the only 2 guys, as of now, we’ll have that fits that bill. Need more.
 
Last edited:
You could be right. We could use another post guy for depth purposes. But with TJD, Brunk, and Thomspon, we have 3 solid contributing “bigs”. If TJD leaves, that does make us more vulnerable as it’d leave us with only Race and Luncombe. I dont think TJD will be gone though. Along side those guys, youd have Hunter, who will be solid as well, and very capable of guarding/rebounding with most teams “4s”. so I don’t see a true big as as much of a need as the other things I mentioned.

I don’t think shooting concerns can be questioned. We need to shoot it better.

As for versatile wings. Well have a bunch of guards/wings.

Rob...point guard, good on the ball defender. Small. Not as good off the ball. Can’t guard anyone that is bigger and decent near the basket.

Kristian...elite level talent. Not sure he’ll be able to guard or rebound with many long wings or bigs. So he’s similar to Rob in where he can play and who he can guard.

Arman...hoping he develops and gets more minutes. He’s a guy that can guard multiple perimeter positions. Decent ball handler. I think has potential to be a reliable shooter. But he’s not going to be able to guard long wings that work inside, or are active on the boards.

Anderson...hard to say what he can do. Obviously Archie didn’t trust him enough to play him much. Which says a lot, because he should have been exactly what we need more of...and it’s not like we were getting great production from our other wing guys. So why would I think he’s a viable option?

Hunter...along with Arman, he is a big key for us. He has the size and length, and appears to have inside outside offensive skills. If he improves, and is healthy enough to play a good chunk of minutes, we’ll be a lot better for it.

Leal, Galloway, Geronimo...all these guys seem like they could be versatile wing guys. But I’d be shocked if they all “hit”. Their recruiting rankings suggest that all of them won’t. Doesn’t mean they’re bad recruits. And I’m sure over time, they’ll all become key players for us. But I’m taking about 2021s class. And we need 1 or 2 kids in that class that can come in and produce immediately.

Well have Phinisee, Lander, and Franklin as our main lead guards. 3 guys to fill 1-2 slots.

We’ll have Hunter, Leal, Galloway, and Geronimo to fill 2-3 slots.

We’ll have Hunter, Thompson, Luncombe..maybe TJD yet, to fill 1-2 spots.

Shooting is a given. Either our current guys need to make enormous strides, or we need to fill it through recruiting.

But it’s not hard to see that we’re “thin” in that 3-4 range...guys that can start a possession on a bigger wing/power forward type, but also switch up and effectively guard a perimeter guy. Hunter, maybe Geronimo...are the only 2 guys, as of now, we’ll have that fits that bill. Need more.

well, I'm not clear on when you're talking about: 21 or 22? Next year, despite me feeling like we could use another post, we don't have it, so we've got to get by and I do think we'll be OK with no injuries, but to me we should have 1 guy developing. The year after we know we are losing Brunk, and while I also believe TJD will return for his Jr year, it's far from a certainty. That then puts Duncombe in the position of needing to play as a freshman; never ideal for a post who isn't a 5*. I also like Franklin, but you have much higher hope for him at PG than I do. I think his future is at the 2 with maybe some combo play, but he didn't show me that he could run an offense... did show he can be a solid perimeter defender. Still, we're probably solid at the PG for the next 2 years... probably need a PG next year too and I think then we're starting to run out of spots. You didn't even count Durham in your rotation and I think he's our likely starting 2. I've been surprised Anderson hasn't left yet. While I don't like the idea of Creaning, as Archie's shaping the roster, it hurts to get so little out of a scholly. I hope he earns PT next year, because frankly, that's where I though we might open a spot and we could use it for either a post or PG to develop.
 
well, I'm not clear on when you're talking about: 21 or 22? Next year, despite me feeling like we could use another post, we don't have it, so we've got to get by and I do think we'll be OK with no injuries, but to me we should have 1 guy developing. The year after we know we are losing Brunk, and while I also believe TJD will return for his Jr year, it's far from a certainty. That then puts Duncombe in the position of needing to play as a freshman; never ideal for a post who isn't a 5*. I also like Franklin, but you have much higher hope for him at PG than I do. I think his future is at the 2 with maybe some combo play, but he didn't show me that he could run an offense... did show he can be a solid perimeter defender. Still, we're probably solid at the PG for the next 2 years... probably need a PG next year too and I think then we're starting to run out of spots. You didn't even count Durham in your rotation and I think he's our likely starting 2. I've been surprised Anderson hasn't left yet. While I don't like the idea of Creaning, as Archie's shaping the roster, it hurts to get so little out of a scholly. I hope he earns PT next year, because frankly, that's where I though we might open a spot and we could use it for either a post or PG to develop.


Sorry, times and dates are tough these days. 21-22 team.

I think we’ll have TJD, Race, Duncombe, and then Hunter to play the 5 and some 4 minutes...as some will be taken by someone other than these 4 when we play “small”.

Phin and Lander will handle the point guard duties. If they both play 28 minutes, that’s 56 of the 80 available minutes at the 1 and 2. That leaves 24 minutes for the “2”. Arman will get most of those, 16-18 or so...and then he’ll play some minutes when both Lander and Phin are playing. Point is, 1-2 minutes should be established...and should be a strength. I’d say the same for the minutes from the 5 spot. The minutes at the 3-4 are where I think our best opportunity is for improvement through recruiting. Shooting and/or versatile wings are where that can happen. Kauffman would fill that void, and be insurance for better quality “big capable” minutes in the possible event that TJD leaves early. Muhammad would also be an impact kid that would help on the wing.

Leal, Galloway, and or Geronimo obviously also have the chance to be impact contributors there. I’d just rather have “insurance” that we’ll be solid there via highly rated, most likely, impact guys like Kauffman and Muhammad. Might end up that we miss on them, and that we don’t “need” them because a couple of the 20 kids step up. Hope it’s both! That’s how we’d push ourselves into top 5-10 status nationally.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sassy61
FYI, his name is Duncomb without an 'e' at the end. Multiple posters in this thread spelling it incorrectly.
 
well, I'm not clear on when you're talking about: 21 or 22? Next year, despite me feeling like we could use another post, we don't have it, so we've got to get by and I do think we'll be OK with no injuries, but to me we should have 1 guy developing. The year after we know we are losing Brunk, and while I also believe TJD will return for his Jr year, it's far from a certainty. That then puts Duncombe in the position of needing to play as a freshman; never ideal for a post who isn't a 5*. I also like Franklin, but you have much higher hope for him at PG than I do. I think his future is at the 2 with maybe some combo play, but he didn't show me that he could run an offense... did show he can be a solid perimeter defender. Still, we're probably solid at the PG for the next 2 years... probably need a PG next year too and I think then we're starting to run out of spots. You didn't even count Durham in your rotation and I think he's our likely starting 2. I've been surprised Anderson hasn't left yet. While I don't like the idea of Creaning, as Archie's shaping the roster, it hurts to get so little out of a scholly. I hope he earns PT next year, because frankly, that's where I though we might open a spot and we could use it for either a post or PG to develop.

Or to put it another way...
I think Rob, Kristian, and TJD will take up roughly 90 minutes of the available 200. Those will result in nationally elite level play at the 1,2, and 5 positions. With the only shortcoming being that neither Rob or Lander will be able to play bigger. And TJD isn’t much of an outside threat, and isn’t great guarding perimeter guys.

The remaining 110 minutes for the 3 and 4 slots mainly, but a few minutes with of the other positions, aren’t nearly as certain to be really good. They obviously could be. We have strong possibilities in Hunter, Franklin, Thompson, and the 20 kids. But it’d sure be nice to get a couple top 50 level kids in the 21 class to help ensure we’re deep and solid in those spots as well.
 
Or to put it another way...
I think Rob, Kristian, and TJD will take up roughly 90 minutes of the available 200. Those will result in nationally elite level play at the 1,2, and 5 positions. The remaining 110 minutes for the 3 and 4 slots mainly, but a few minutes with of the other positions, aren’t nearly as certain to be really good. They obviously could be. We have strong possibilities in Hunter, Franklin, Thompson, and the 20 kids. But it’d sure be nice to get a couple top 50 level kids in the 21 class to help ensure we’re deep and solid in those spots as well.
“Nationally elite level play at the 1,2 and 5 positions”? Seriously? Nationally elite? Based on what?
 
Or to put it another way...
I think Rob, Kristian, and TJD will take up roughly 90 minutes of the available 200. Those will result in nationally elite level play at the 1,2, and 5 positions. With the only shortcoming being that neither Rob or Lander will be able to play bigger. And TJD isn’t much of an outside threat, and isn’t great guarding perimeter guys.

The remaining 110 minutes for the 3 and 4 slots mainly, but a few minutes with of the other positions, aren’t nearly as certain to be really good. They obviously could be. We have strong possibilities in Hunter, Franklin, Thompson, and the 20 kids. But it’d sure be nice to get a couple top 50 level kids in the 21 class to help ensure we’re deep and solid in those spots as well.
Why do you think that Phinisee will achieve a "nationally elite level [of] play"? Through two seasons his level of play hasn't been close to elite within the conference much less nationally. His ranking out of HS wouldn't indicate that it's just a matter of time until that happens, either. Sure, he had freshman growing pains and possibly an injury which slowed him this past season but he would need to make a huge jump to get to the level of nationally elite, or even B1G elite. He had a PER of 12.8 this past season. Winston of MSU had a PER of 23.0 (and that was the second worst of his career).

Don't get me wrong, I think he'll improve and be a solid player that helps more than hurts the team the next couple of years. I don't see him becoming elite, however.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jimmygoiu
“Nationally elite level play at the 1,2 and 5 positions”? Seriously? Nationally elite? Based on what?

TJD as a junior. I don’t need to explain this one...I wouldn’t think.

Lander as a sophomore. This one is obviously less certain. But top ranked point guards in classes, more often than not, are nationally elite. Especially in 2nd years and beyond.

Rob...this one might be a stretch. But a senior Rob Phinisee will be very good. Freshman and sophomore Rob, when he’s been healthy, has been very good. He might not end up getting the attention that a Kristian gets. But at that point, as a senior, I’m guessing I’d put him up against nearly any other point guard. Especially any that are underclassmen. But maybe B10 elite might be a better prediction for Rob.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aloha Hoosier
TJD as a junior. I don’t need to explain this one...I wouldn’t think.

Lander as a sophomore. This one is obviously less certain. But top ranked point guards in classes, more often than not, are nationally elite. Especially in 2nd years and beyond.

Rob...this one might be a stretch. But a senior Rob Phinisee will be very good. Freshman and sophomore Rob, when he’s been healthy, has been very good. He might not end up getting the attention that a Kristian gets. But at that point, as a senior, I’m guessing I’d put him up against nearly any other point guard. Especially any that are underclassmen. But maybe B10 elite might be a better prediction for Rob.
So, these are all part of your wishlist but aren’t rooted in any sort of logical or factual basis? Okay, that makes sense. Otherwise, it was purely speculative and emblematic of fandom than any specific knowledge of IU basketball.
 
Why do you think that Phinisee will achieve a "nationally elite level [of] play"? Through two seasons his level of play hasn't been close to elite within the conference much less nationally. His ranking out of HS wouldn't indicate that it's just a matter of time until that happens, either. Sure, he had freshman growing pains and possibly an injury which slowed him this past season but he would need to make a huge jump to get to the level of nationally elite, or even B1G elite. He had a PER of 12.8 this past season. Winston of MSU had a PER of 23.0 (and that was the second worst of his career).

Don't get me wrong, I think he'll improve and be a solid player that helps more than hurts the team the next couple of years. I don't see him becoming elite, however.

Nationally elite might be a bit of a stretch. Though I think a senior Rob Phinisee...id likely put him against pretty much anyone. The combo of he and Lander at the 1-2...offensively, defensively, etc...should be one of the better back courts though.

But yeah, B10 elite is probably a better prediction for Rob.
 
Nationally elite might be a bit of a stretch. Though I think a senior Rob Phinisee...id likely put him against pretty much anyone. The combo of he and Lander at the 1-2...offensively, defensively, etc...should be one of the better back courts though.

But yeah, B10 elite is probably a better prediction for Rob.
I think both have a chance to be better but projecting out two years is folly, especially related to RP or how he and Lander play together. Further, TJD will need to improve significantly to be an elite national player in two years.
 
So, these are all part of your wishlist but aren’t rooted in any sort of logical or factual basis? Okay, that makes sense. Otherwise, it was purely speculative and emblematic of fandom than any specific knowledge of IU basketball.

All?

TJD as a junior won’t be nationally elite? Hmm.

A kid that’s the consensus top ranked point guard in his class...there’s not strong precedent to support that he’ll be nationally elite as a sophomore? Hmm

I’ll give the Rob call was a stretch. Though I’d take a Senior PG like Rob any day. And with more reliable weapons around him, I think his game elevates exponentially. Passing the ball to Devonte Green and Al Durham probably is more restrictive, from a numbers and efficiency stand point, than passing it to Lander, Junior Franklin, Senior Hunter, etc...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aloha Hoosier
I think both have a chance to be better but projecting out two years is folly, especially related to RP or how he and Lander play together. Further, TJD will need to improve significantly to be an elite national player in two years.

Oh good lord... it’s within the context of this thread. And specifically the context of what we’ll need. “Nationally elite”...yes, I do believe that trio will be as good as any top 3. But it could be a stretch. Regardless, they’ll be the strength of our team. Thus less need to recruit lead guards or 5 men, with the remaining 21 slots.

And anyone that’s on All American lists is my measurement for “elite”. TJD will almost certainly get there this next year, let alone as a junior. He’ll be a Naismith candidate as a junior. He showed marked improvement within the season, even as he became the central focus for the “grown men” he faced in the conference.
 
Last edited:
All?

TJD as a junior won’t be nationally elite? Hmm.

A kid that’s the consensus top ranked point guard in his class...there’s not strong precedent to support that he’ll be nationally elite as a sophomore? Hmm

I’ll give the Rob call was a stretch. Though I’d take a Senior PG like Rob any day. And with more reliable weapons around him, I think his game elevates exponentially. Passing the ball to Devonte Green and Al Durham probably is more restrictive, from a numbers and efficiency stand point, than passing it to Lander, Junior Franklin, Senior Hunter, etc...
Unless his game develops significantly, he’s probably not an elite player. Skilled around the basket? Absolutely. Bit without even a mid range game, he’ll not be elite.

As for Lander, he’s certainly a top PG, though he’s far from the consensus top PG. And he’s physically slight and not particularly strong. Let’s see if he adds weight and strength before he’s crowned “elite” especially before he’s ever played a second of college basketball.

As for Rob, I think he could be a solid player, and he’s shown flashes of that, but his lack of consistency combined with an uneven motor doesn’t suggest “elite”.

Fans tend to exaggerate where their favorite team’s players rank. It’s not uncommon. Reality tends to jump in, at some point, however.
 
Oh good lord... it’s within the context of this thread. And specifically the context of what we’ll need. “Nationally elite”...yes, I do believe that trio will be as good as any top 3. But it could be a stretch. Regardless, they’ll be the strength of our team. Thus less need to recruit lead guards or 5 men, with the remaining 21 slots.

And anyone that’s on All American lists is my measurement for “elite”. TJD will almost certainly get there this next year, let alone as a junior. He’ll be a Naismith candidate as a junior. He showed marked improvement within the season, even as he became the central focus for the “grown men” he faced in the conference.
Again, this is fanboi stuff, which is understandable. Fans do it all the time.
 
Again, this is fanboi stuff, which is understandable. Fans do it all the time.

Of course it’s fan boy stuff. I’m an IU fan. Doesn’t make it unlikely.

TJD nationally elite as a junior is far more likely than not. I have the ability to assume moderate levels of improvement. We’ve seen that already from Archies teams and players. It’s ok to assume it’ll continue. That’s not even taking into account TJD has very real NBA potential, will make millions of dollars if he realizes that potential, etc... He won’t need to develop any deeper range...just getting physically stronger, and having more weapons around him, will make him a lot better. Developing a mid/outside shot will make him a likely lottery pick. That’s some strong motivation to put the hours in. He will, and since he’s already a good free throw shooter, has solid form, he doesn’t have to completely recreate anything. He’ll get there.

Top ranked PG in a class, as a sophomore in college...so difficult to see that turning out well. It’s not unlikely.

Rob...that one is rooted more in fan-ish optimism. But there’s tangible reasoning behind it as well, though. Him being a senior. Him having Lander, a junior TJD, and older/better guys to play with and through than he has thus far. Xavier Simpson is probably a better comp than Cassius Winston though at this point.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MrBing
Of course it’s fan boy stuff. I’m an IU fan. Doesn’t make it unlikely.

TJD nationally elite as a junior is far more likely than not. I have the ability to assume moderate levels of improvement. We’ve seen that already from Archies teams and players. It’s ok to assume it’ll continue. That’s not even taking into account TJD has very real NBA potential, will make millions of dollars if he realizes that potential, etc... He won’t need to develop any deeper range...just getting physically stronger, and having more weapons around him, will make him a lot better. Developing a mid/outside shot will make him a likely lottery pick. That’s some strong motivation to put the hours in. He will, and since he’s already a good free throw shooter, has solid form, he doesn’t have to completely recreate anything. He’ll get there.

Top ranked PG in a class, as a sophomore in college...so difficult to see that turning out well. It’s not unlikely.

Rob...that one is rooted more in fan-ish optimism. But there’s tangible reasoning behind it as well, though. Him being a senior. Him having Lander, a junior TJD, and older/better guys to play with and through than he has thus far. Xavier Simpson is probably a better comp than Cassius Winston though at this point.
Again, this is common among the fanboi crowd, but reality is nearly always different.
 
ADVERTISEMENT