I've been watching IU basketball for over 50 years now, so I do have some perspective. I believe this current team has the potential to rank with Knight's 2nd and 3rd national champions, the Woodson/Thomas team, and the Henderson-Bailey Final 8 team, and will be better than the Coverdale/Mike Davis championship game team. I predict at least a Sweet 16 and a possible Elite 8. Beyond that I don't make predictions. - John Duvall
Tourney Prospects
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The talent and experience is there to reach those heights. It will come down toughness and coaching.
Tourney too unpredictable. Let’s win the B1G as that’s a true “body of work”
When considering the top 10-11 players, is this team the most talented IU team?
Before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, I am not talking the starting five. I am saying that most IU teams, even the championship teams, had players that really did not contribute much or play at all except during mop up time. This team has a second five that has been REALLY good the first two games. No Tim Prillers on this team!
Hendo n Bailey were on the 92 and 93 teams that went to the Elite 8 and FF. Those yeams also included Cheaney, Nover, the Grahams, Brian Evans, Eric Anderson (92), Jamal Meeks (92). Those teams were 10 points better than this years team. They were 31-5 in the big ten in those 2 years. 58-11 overall. This team may lose as many games in big ten and overall in 1 year. Also, the big ten was really good in those years. The big ten this year simply is not. Lots of decent teams. Nobody nationally considering anybody a title contender.
Wow...let’s not get ahead of ourselves.
I think we should obviously be better than we have in a while. There’s a lot of talent and experience there. We should have a good chance at competing for the B10 and getting a good tournament seed.
But that’s as far as I’m willing to go…especially before we’ve played anybody.
Agree. This year‘s team is as deep as those early 90s teams. But as far as total talent, the 92 team would probably smoke this year‘s team by 20. Calbert would probably go off for 40 points
This team vs the 2002 team or Zeller's sophomore team would be very interesting though.
No way. Modern game and Players are just faster, more athletic and have moves that basically didn't exist then. Could similarly put just about any current NBA team on the floor against the champions from 25-30 years ago and likely run them out of the gym. My opinion, but fundamentals notwithstanding, in many respects it's a very different game involving very different players. Evolution of football is similar, baseball not so much.
No problem with claiming that the 92-93 Team was better in a relative sense, but head-to-head? No way.
No... just no. This is a team that got blown out in the round of 64 last year. While I'll admit that they added a couple of good recruits, they still have some things to prove. For one, they have to prove that they can sustain some outside shooting, as they didn't add any real shooting from last year. And that was a major issue last year.
I can't see this team ranking with RMK's 2nd national championship team. They absolutely destroyed the field in the tourney. That team started the year rough, but they were so good by the end and they really didn't have a weakness.
The 1987 team was also head and shoulders above this team as well. Calbert's teams were also much much better than this team.
I think people are looking at this team and seeing the "depth," but are forgetting that this exact same starting five (with the exception of JHS) finished 9th last year in the BIG. 9th. Think about that. How in the heck can you go from finishing 9th the previous year to thinking this team will be the equal to (or better than) 2 of RMK's national championship teams? It boggles the mind...
I'm all for wearing Crimson-colored glasses, but...
Talk about living in the past. If that's your thing, maybe recall the 2002 Team that was a rolled ankle away from winning the Championship with the same returning line-up minus Kirk Haston and that previously lost to Kent State in the 1st round of the Tourney. Any real student of the game could doubtless cite numerous and better examples of similar 'evolutions'.
Of course thus year's Team has stuff to prove, but pre-judging them and characterizing them as deficient, fatally flawed, unworthy or whatever at this point is at least as ignorant, flimsy, naive or whatever it is you're implying about those anointing them as EE or FF locks.
Execution is execution, depth is real and defense travels. Not ready to crown the 2022-23 Hoosiers as anything just yet, but anyone who knows much about the game and has watched them play this year can tell this is not remotely the "same team".
You claim that I'm "...living in the past." Perhaps I am. I would tend to characterize it more as I'm living in reality, as I'm only judging them based on what we've seen in the past. That's the point.
The OP claimed that they have the potential to rank with RMK's 2nd and 3rd national championship teams. I simply claimed that they have done nothing in the past to indicate that they will be that good this year. On paper, they should be pretty good. However, on paper, this is still mostly a 9th place roster with the addition of two 5-stars. Will there be enough development among the existing players in one year, along with whatever the 5-stars bring, to push this team to great heights? We'll see. I certainly hope so. It would require a massive jump in one year. That was the point of my post. And perhaps I was being a bit cynical based on the lack of development in this program over the last 20 years or so.
Do I think they have shown improvement this season thus far? Absolutely. Have they played anyone of note yet? Of course not. We have seen them play weak opponents that they have beaten handily - as they should have. Before anyone claims that they have the potential to equal great squads, let's see them actually play a team of note or two.
The OP claimed that they have the potential to rank with RMK's 2nd and 3rd national championship teams. I simply claimed that they have done nothing in the past to indicate that they will be that good this year. On paper, they should be pretty good. However, on paper, this is still mostly a 9th place roster with the addition of two 5-stars. Will there be enough development among the existing players in one year, along with whatever the 5-stars bring, to push this team to great heights? We'll see. I certainly hope so. It would require a massive jump in one year. That was the point of my post. And perhaps I was being a bit cynical based on the lack of development in this program over the last 20 years or so.
Do I think they have shown improvement this season thus far? Absolutely. Have they played anyone of note yet? Of course not. We have seen them play weak opponents that they have beaten handily - as they should have. Before anyone claims that they have the potential to equal great squads, let's see them actually play a team of note or two.
Reality is now, not then or when. Cynicism I get/know. Also that it's in and of itself essentially useless - clouds the now and masks potential. In your words, "The OP claimed that they have the potential to rank with RMK's 2nd and 3rd national championship teams." Not that they will, and 'tis in my view way early for such, but he sees something, sure believe I'm seeing something, and we be far from alone.
As for," I simply claimed that they have done nothing in the past to indicate that they will be that good this year", well, most are speculating and founding opinions on the basis of what they've done this year rather than last (that past thing again), and as yet they've done nothing to indicate that they won't be that good this year. Fact is they've pretty much killed it, are clearly not remotely the "same Team", and so thus far, (and in my estimation) they look to be all that.
Will Friday be a heat check or a proclamation? Cynicism based on what was vs. optimism with an eye toward what appears to be. Easy call.
As for," I simply claimed that they have done nothing in the past to indicate that they will be that good this year", well, most are speculating and founding opinions on the basis of what they've done this year rather than last (that past thing again), and as yet they've done nothing to indicate that they won't be that good this year. Fact is they've pretty much killed it, are clearly not remotely the "same Team", and so thus far, (and in my estimation) they look to be all that.
Will Friday be a heat check or a proclamation? Cynicism based on what was vs. optimism with an eye toward what appears to be. Easy call.
I think this team stacks up about like the 2015-16 team in terms of talent. Potential for conference 1st thru 4th, possibility of making a run in the tourney. Or a bit like 2008 without the coach firing during the season. Better than the 2007 team that was good defensively but without as much talent. Better than the 2012 team that hit the "Wat shot" and got to the S16.
I don't know that the guards are good enough to compare to 2013, 2002, or even 1994.
Definitely not as good as 1991-93 or 1987 or 1981. Or even 1983 , at least not at this time. Hopefully better than 98-00.
I don't know that the guards are good enough to compare to 2013, 2002, or even 1994.
Definitely not as good as 1991-93 or 1987 or 1981. Or even 1983 , at least not at this time. Hopefully better than 98-00.
With the changes in rules (hand checking / freedom of movement), analytics, and pace, it is difficult to say how it would impact teams from 25+ years ago. I have a real hard time imagining the mid-90s Bulls Teams getting run out of the gym by most of league today.
You have to forgive some of the youngsters posting here. When they never actually got to witness the teams in the 70s, 80s and early 90s, their only benchmark is 2000 and beyond. When you make proclamations based on the shitshow that largely took place at IU the last 20 years, I’m sure this current team looks like one of the greatest IU teams of all time.
How about we crush Xavier on the road and beat UNC at home … this team will get plenty done.
IU is clearly no longer on the outside looking in.
IU is clearly no longer on the outside looking in.
Too early to declare that the B1G isn’t good. Most teams have played 2 and no clunkers thus far. But I agree that the Big 10 in ‘93 when we went 17-1 was a gauntlet. That team was incredible. Reeling off 15 straight that year and beating the Fab 5 twice was a great time to be an IU student
I am in total agreement with you, Admitted the 87 championship wasnt close to Knights 3rd best team . The difference on that team was Alford who could only be rivaled by Buckner from a mental toughness standpoint and RMK. 92-3 would smoke this team right now. I am sure they will get better and there is no team out there like several others in 92-3 . Finally, and I am not Knocking Woodson by any means but he isnt RMK which makes a huge difference. Things havent changed that much as far as players from 92 , I would say you get away with a lot more palming /carrying and the eurostep BS whatever that actually is vs that much difference in the players abilities.
I don't argue hypotheticals. Unless someone has a flux capacitor and some plutonium, or maybe Tony Stark's and Hank Pym's phone numbers, it's all make believe.
92-93 squad. What a non conf schedule? WOW!
W -Tulane * Ncaa 11 seed
W- FSU. * Ncaa 3 seed
W- Seton Hall *Ncaa 2 seed
L- Kansas. * Ncaa 2 seed
W- St John's * Ncaa 5 seed
W- Cincinnati * Ncaa 2 seed
L- Kentucky *. Ncaa 1 seed
then..conference.
W x 2 Vs Iowa *Ncaa 4 seed
W x 2 vs Michigan *Ncaa 1 seed
W x 2 vs Purdue. * Ncaa 9 seed
W x 2 vs Illinois *Ncaa 6 seed
Only B1G loss was @ OSU without 11ppg/8rpg 2? blks a game Hendo... I recall my dad saying that night "Son, Without Alan, IU wont win it all now"
your dad was right...without Alan, Kansas had too much inside muscle. Thanks for pulling that old schedule. Talk about a loaded season. 17-1 in the original round robin big ten. That FSU game was a battle, they had some studs (i remember that being the game Pat G re-broke his foot). We beat Kansas the first time in the dome if we make FTs. Kentucky was Mashburn and the moustaches (or maybe the moustaches was '92? can't remember). Both games vs Fraud 5 were 1 pt nail biters. Purdue was Big Dog's soph yr.92-93 squad. What a non conf schedule? WOW!
W -Tulane * Ncaa 11 seed
W- FSU. * Ncaa 3 seed
W- Seton Hall *Ncaa 2 seed
L- Kansas. * Ncaa 2 seed
W- St John's * Ncaa 5 seed
W- Cincinnati * Ncaa 2 seed
L- Kentucky *. Ncaa 1 seed
then..conference.
W x 2 Vs Iowa *Ncaa 4 seed
W x 2 vs Michigan *Ncaa 1 seed
W x 2 vs Purdue. * Ncaa 9 seed
W x 2 vs Illinois *Ncaa 6 seed
Only B1G loss was @ OSU without 11ppg/8rpg 2? blks a game Hendo... I recall my dad saying that night "Son, Without Alan, IU wont win it all now"
I truly hope we are comparing this year's team to that squad in February. But to do so now is just silly.
Double OT game in Columbus if I recall correctly, Vitale on the call. Reynolds was bailed out on a foul call on an inbounds pass 50 feet from the basket and hit FT's to send it to OT.92-93 squad. What a non conf schedule? WOW!
W -Tulane * Ncaa 11 seed
W- FSU. * Ncaa 3 seed
W- Seton Hall *Ncaa 2 seed
L- Kansas. * Ncaa 2 seed
W- St John's * Ncaa 5 seed
W- Cincinnati * Ncaa 2 seed
L- Kentucky *. Ncaa 1 seed
then..conference.
W x 2 Vs Iowa *Ncaa 4 seed
W x 2 vs Michigan *Ncaa 1 seed
W x 2 vs Purdue. * Ncaa 9 seed
W x 2 vs Illinois *Ncaa 6 seed
Only B1G loss was @ OSU without 11ppg/8rpg 2? blks a game Hendo... I recall my dad saying that night "Son, Without Alan, IU wont win it all now"
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Game at the Garden. Florida State was led by Sam Cassel but also were with Bob Sura and Doug Edwards who both played in the NBA. Charlie Ward joined that team mid-season and they ended up in the E8.
I think that particular play was at Penn State. One of the last games in their old gym. It was portrayed that RMK actually called that play, anticipating our player getting run over. But I wasn't so sure.
I think IU survived a 2OT game at Penn State earlier in the year, but in Columbus Reynolds tried to set a back screen just before half court and the refs called a foul and sent him to the line and subsequently sent the game to OT.
yep that was it. Very tough win for IU. Wasn't easy. They were an athletic team, very physical.
I remember that...if I recall correctly it was a questionable call that went our way and PSU coach almost lost his mind.
just watched youtube...the PSU game- IU was down 2 in regulation and G Graham got fouled on a deep baseline jumper with 0.3 seconds left. FTs sent it to OT. The Reynolds play happened just before that.
Video- Chaos begins around the 1hr 54 min mark.
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My dad said the same. Those early 90s teams. Special.92-93 squad. What a non conf schedule? WOW!
W -Tulane * Ncaa 11 seed
W- FSU. * Ncaa 3 seed
W- Seton Hall *Ncaa 2 seed
L- Kansas. * Ncaa 2 seed
W- St John's * Ncaa 5 seed
W- Cincinnati * Ncaa 2 seed
L- Kentucky *. Ncaa 1 seed
then..conference.
W x 2 Vs Iowa *Ncaa 4 seed
W x 2 vs Michigan *Ncaa 1 seed
W x 2 vs Purdue. * Ncaa 9 seed
W x 2 vs Illinois *Ncaa 6 seed
Only B1G loss was @ OSU without 11ppg/8rpg 2? blks a game Hendo... I recall my dad saying that night "Son, Without Alan, IU wont win it all now"
No, that was last year's team.
The game I’m talking about is the loss to Ohio State. Found a highlight clip of that season. Start at the 41 minute mark, down 1, Reynolds gets fouled setting a back screen just shy of half court with 2 seconds left. Makes 1/2 FT to send to OT.
There’s no question this year’s squad looks much better than last season. How much better? We’ll know by February.
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