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Tom Crean & Georgia

KS texted and lied about it, that's all!!!. Crean was a fool and needs extreme talent to win, but neither he, nor KS, or Arch (who is similar to Crean) wrecked the program. Dakich did. He threw all those decent players off from what was about a top 10 team and left Crean with nothing. I don't recall arrests of any of those players or anything to warrant it other than they hated Dakich and his moralistic crap. Crean could have re-recruited them, but probably thought it more safe to suck and have a pity party for 3 years. In the end there were probably more players with arrests and off court issues under Crean than any IU coach ever.
I just can’t....
 
You are an idiot. Crean cheated and had more arrests in a 2 year period than Sampson has had in his career. What players got arrested under Sampson?

Under Crean: Yogi, Stan, Troy, Emmitt, Davis, Hanner (3 times).

Crean cheated with Ahope, Thomas Bryant and Noah Vonleh. When did Sampson cheat? He for sure didn't pay Gordon.
He was also on campus longer. We didn’t give Sampson time to out do him. 🤣
 
Lol, some of you are just insane(or stupid). Sampson was getting canned regardless. He had zero institutional control at a university that wasn’t equipped to handle shenanigans. Those players left because the writing was on the wall. I can’t stand Dakich but he absolutely had no choice. I for one will never question his decisions in that time. It was well known around B-town what was going on and it wasn’t long before it was public. I can tell you they weren’t being good students.
Let's here it then, exactly what scandal was well known? That bball players like to smoke weed? Nobody I can recall ever had off court issues, was arrested, etc. Exactly what was so egregious that we have to condemn the guy over too many text messages for the purpose of trying to make us better? Lots more scandal under Crean, which BTW, was all public. I think they just hated Dakich and quit on him almost immediately, and he retaliated because he knew they'd cost him the job
 
I wish people on here were as disgusted with our former coach Calvin. He goes to the final four and some people say,"we should have never gotten rid of him". At least Crean took the job after Calvin wrecked the program. I honor him for that at least. Sure we had tons of turnovers and the defense was atrocious. But he did brings us back from the basement.

Sampson is loved by some because he wins. If he didn’t, those same supporters would refer to him as a loser and cheater and not care. It the “do what it takes to win and we won’t question it” mentality.
 
haha More ridiculous hyperbole. If you support any college program you will find cheating in it. So you do support it but you want to pretend you don't to take some moral high ground. They all do it, so lets start from there.
Sampson resigned because he cheated, lied to the NCAA and IU, and according to the NCAA he violated his probation. So try to change the goal posts. He needed to go. Had to go. And it is not ok. But call me names if that helps you feel better.
 
We weren't as smart as UNC, that's for sure. Deny, deny, deny and threaten to lawyer up. Oh, and the fact that you're one of the NCAA's cash and sacred cows doesn't hurt either!
UNC wrote the playbook for any program dealing with NCAA enforcement, especially when the NCAA investigation department being so small. From now on, it will be deny, deflect, and stall.
 
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Sampson resigned because he cheated, lied to the NCAA and IU, and according to the NCAA he violated his probation. So try to change the goal posts. He needed to go. Had to go. And it is not ok. But call me names if that helps you feel better.

Call you names? Move the goal posts? What on earth are you talking about? No one said he didn't break the rules, we all agree with that. You're just sore around your rear because I said the "rules" he broke aren't even valid rules anymore. So continue to "move the goal posts" of this conversation but my points remain.
 
Let's here it then, exactly what scandal was well known? That bball players like to smoke weed? Nobody I can recall ever had off court issues, was arrested, etc. Exactly what was so egregious that we have to condemn the guy over too many text messages for the purpose of trying to make us better? Lots more scandal under Crean, which BTW, was all public. I think they just hated Dakich and quit on him almost immediately, and he retaliated because he knew they'd cost him the job
Someone linked a story where Gordon said the divide on the team made it difficult to play. That's pretty damning and I don't have a dog in the fight, but I'll take the guy who was on the team at his word. Nothing to gain for him to say that.
 
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Call you names? Move the goal posts? What on earth are you talking about? No one said he didn't break the rules, we all agree with that. You're just sore around your rear because I said the "rules" he broke aren't even valid rules anymore. So continue to "move the goal posts" of this conversation but my points remain.
You said he did just what other coaches did. He violated his probation. This.
 
Let's here it then, exactly what scandal was well known? That bball players like to smoke weed? Nobody I can recall ever had off court issues, was arrested, etc. Exactly what was so egregious that we have to condemn the guy over too many text messages for the purpose of trying to make us better? Lots more scandal under Crean, which BTW, was all public. I think they just hated Dakich and quit on him almost immediately, and he retaliated because he knew they'd cost him the job
wasn’t talking about Crean. The players may not of been arrested but they most certainly weren’t going to class and rumored to be dealing. You can hash it as many ways as you want but it could’ve gotten much uglier. He was a slimy coach that IU was never prepared to handle. you are calling me out for speculation yet your last sentence is pure speculation. The text messages where a rule at the time and was used by IU not the NCAA to force him out before it got really bad. That’s not speculation.
 
Agreed. Crean really acted like he was squirrelly. Nuts. And then smirked like he pulled one over on Meyer.

However, the backstory has to be stated here. There is so much baggage that Meyer carried and the team up north. Apparently Meyer was caught by IU cheating and helping Sampson cheat. Meyer flipped on Sampson and got his...ahem...possible probation from coaching in the NCAA...plead down to nothing. Then when hired up north, he was apparently stealing recruits and taking them. Plus, there was the incident when one player during that game stood in front of the coaches bench and dissed the coaches and the players. And there was a IU recruit sitting behind the other team's coaches. Finally during the handhake after game..Crean said something negative to Meyer and Meyer, it was reported, gave Crean the Fbomb. The rest is in your video. But Meyer did help to ruin the program. And Crean was an idiot.
Yep. Meyer did help ruin the program but it was deeper than just Sampson and Meyer. And Crean is indeed an idiot.
 
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Sounds like Tom’s upcoming UGA team is going to look a lot like his first IU team. Only this time, he did it to himself.

I wonder if Kyle Taber and Brett Finklemeier have kids old enough to walk on?
 
Let's here it then, exactly what scandal was well known? That bball players like to smoke weed? Nobody I can recall ever had off court issues, was arrested, etc. Exactly what was so egregious that we have to condemn the guy over too many text messages for the purpose of trying to make us better? Lots more scandal under Crean, which BTW, was all public. I think they just hated Dakich and quit on him almost immediately, and he retaliated because he knew they'd cost him the job
Academics did not matter to that coaching staff and THAT was the biggest violation of all.
 
You are an idiot. Crean cheated and had more arrests in a 2 year period than Sampson has had in his career. What players got arrested under Sampson?

Under Crean: Yogi, Stan, Troy, Emmitt, Davis, Hanner (3 times).

Crean cheated with Ahope, Thomas Bryant and Noah Vonleh. When did Sampson cheat? He for sure didn't pay Gordon.
Bud Mackey is in a federal prison
 
UNC wrote the playbook for any program dealing with NCAA enforcement, especially when the NCAA investigation department being so small. From now on, it will be deny, deflect, and stall.
NCAA doesn't have jurisdiction over UNC academia. But they absolutely can go after a program who fails to monitor their coaches, especially one who is on probation.
 
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agreed, I was thinking about this moment earlier today when this thread took life. We just won the B1G title outright in a heavily contested game on the road vs a loaded UM team....and instead of celebrating it with the rest of the players, he decides to go on a crusade with the cameras rolling. Total DBag move...it was this, and then the 'Cuse game 2 weeks later, that woke me up to this flim flam man. Not excusing Meyer, he was dirty.
The key element of this was the description “with the cameras rolling”. He loved that. Such a superficial guy.
 
Sampson is loved by some because he wins. If he didn’t, those same supporters would refer to him as a loser and cheater and not care. It the “do what it takes to win and we won’t question it” mentality.
well duh.
 
Let's here it then, exactly what scandal was well known? That bball players like to smoke weed? Nobody I can recall ever had off court issues, was arrested, etc. Exactly what was so egregious that we have to condemn the guy over too many text messages for the purpose of trying to make us better? Lots more scandal under Crean, which BTW, was all public. I think they just hated Dakich and quit on him almost immediately, and he retaliated because he knew they'd cost him the job
Academic performance among most of the team plummeted, and KS had little concern for this. Many of the players were careening toward academic ineligibility, regardless of their drug use. It wasn’t a program consistent with IU’s historical standards.
 
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It wasn't cell phone calls, it was him being limited on the # of calls and him going around it by having his assistants put him on 3 way so his phone records didn't show any outgoing calls. What isn't a rule that he allegedly broke was the text messages. 2 separate instances and both are foolish but HARDLY afoul in the same manner than these other programs did. That was the point, so no need to twist it with your hyperbole.

Lastly, the sport is built around feathering the line of the rules. EVERY school and EVERY coach gets as close and often crosses because there's a 5k page book of rules that would be impossible to stay completely within unless you simply didn't play. This holier than thou approach is built off your own fallacy and not reality. The entire point is that Sampson really didn't do anything ALL coaches are doing as well. So to bring IU to its knees while most other programs are doing far worse and not getting punished nearly as bad is what I was referring to.
I'll add kids not going to class and players smoking weed. I know for a fact it cost us Tyler Zeller. There was no way he would go to IU with this kind of environment. Crean cleaned that stuff up so hence we got Cody Zeller.
 
Someone linked a story where Gordon said the divide on the team made it difficult to play. That's pretty damning and I don't have a dog in the fight, but I'll take the guy who was on the team at his word. Nothing to gain for him to say that.
I remember hearing back then that Gordon didn't do the drugs like some others. He also went to class during his 1 yr at IU. I respect him for that and when I see him in the NBA I remember what a great year he had before he had a hand injury.
 
I used to feel that way about Kelvin; however, I have realized Kelvin wasn’t the root cause of the issues. The IU admin was to blame. And yes, I would take Kelvin over Crean any day
I have said all along that this unraveling all began with Myles Brand and the board of trustees. This has been the 20 year curse we’ve all witnessed.
 
I get it, he went around stipulations to make 3 way calls to recruits. Look at todays recruiting environment and realize what Sampson was working against. He wasn't capitalizing on the nonsense like these other REAL cheaters were. We are talking about extra text messages that aren't even a rule anymore and never should have been.

The problem with that entire situation is IU was brought to its knees by the NCAA due to a rule that no longer exists and something that HARDLY benefited Sampson or IU with the phone calls. We were left with 1 walk-on scholarship player and had a MASSIVE black spotlight placed on us unnecessarily. Meanwhile, UNC makes up fake classes to keep kids eligible across many sports and nothing happens. Coaches are paying players and or working around the shoe system to facilitate payments and we see minimal impacts.

We, as IU fans, got shafted by the NCAA and although definitely idiotic on Sampson's part, I don't look at him as this super scandalous college coach. Slick Rick, Bill Self, Scott Drew.....these guys are the real shady ones. Sampson's transgressions have been looked at as equal or worse but that couldn't be further from the truth.
Sampson didn’t get us in that mess simply because of phone calls or text messages. He was on probation here because of three-way phone calls at Oklahoma. The terms of his probation prohibited the three-way calls for a year, but he did it anyway. He got fired because he violated the terms of his probation then lied to the NCAA about it.
 
NCAA doesn't have jurisdiction over UNC academia. But they absolutely can go after a program who fails to monitor their coaches, especially one who is on probation.
I love the “defense” of UNC. So players are directed to classes that require no work and are given As, and somehow it’s okay? Stop it. The players are basically academically ineligible for fraudulent grades (and later diplomas), and not having a full time academic load. I’m pretty sure players who are academically ineligible are not permitted to play, per the NCAA.
 
I'll add kids not going to class and players smoking weed. I know for a fact it cost us Tyler Zeller. There was no way he would go to IU with this kind of environment. Crean cleaned that stuff up so hence we got Cody Zeller.

cleaned it up before guys started getting caught in dorms w OZs of weed and bouncing each other’s heads of car hoods? But we get it, he said he was a Christian a lot..
 
cleaned it up before guys started getting caught in dorms w OZs of weed and bouncing each other’s heads of car hoods? But we get it, he said he was a Christian a lot..
the guy w Oz and his head bounced off the hood transferred too......??
You guessed it Houston!!
 
I'll add kids not going to class and players smoking weed. I know for a fact it cost us Tyler Zeller. There was no way he would go to IU with this kind of environment. Crean cleaned that stuff up so hence we got Cody Zeller.
Lol. It was cleaned up before he got there. Crean let that stuff creep back in.
 
It’ll forever be a stain on the program how most of our fan base thought that clown was the best coach in America for 8 years. I’ve never seen fans so blind. And many are posting on this thread now like they weren’t.
 
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I love the “defense” of UNC. So players are directed to classes that require no work and are given As, and somehow it’s okay? Stop it. The players are basically academically ineligible for fraudulent grades (and later diplomas), and not having a full time academic load. I’m pretty sure players who are academically ineligible are not permitted to play, per the NCAA.
Any student could take those classes, not just the student-athletes. That's why he's saying the NCAA had no jurisdiction. That's why they got away with it.
 
I put miller much higher on your list. Zero sucess, minimal fan support, enthusiasm low, culture of not playing hard
I think I would just swap Davis and Archie. Davis left DJ White and some good players that Sampson could work with and there was no rebuild. Archie also left a 5 star kid in the middle and some decent talent with help coming with Parker Stewart. The portal and Woodson has made the most of it and improved IU’s talent and filled the holes, though. Crean and Sampson left IU very little to nothing, especially Sampson.

Remember. this was about what was left for the next guy, not the success the guy had before he was fired.
 
Let's here it then, exactly what scandal was well known? That bball players like to smoke weed? Nobody I can recall ever had off court issues, was arrested, etc. Exactly what was so egregious that we have to condemn the guy over too many text messages for the purpose of trying to make us better? Lots more scandal under Crean, which BTW, was all public. I think they just hated Dakich and quit on him almost immediately, and he retaliated because he knew they'd cost him the job
A committed recruit was charged with dealing cocaine in his high school, does that count?
 
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Dan Dakich said working for Calvin was easier than with Coach Knight. Calvin handled losing a lot better than Knight did. Yet Dakich would not want him back at IU. He said there was a ton of stuff that showed he was not right for IU. Now at Houston he has found a home. They had Guy Lewis there for years.
Here’s the thing with Dakich: he talks a lot about “Calvin” (and Kelvin too) with respect to always knowing he was a ethically corrupt. He mentions all of the signs that were ignored about the guy and IU hired him anyway.
So......why the hell would you go work for the guy knowing all of this? That part is never explained.
 
A committed recruit was charged with dealing cocaine in his high school, does that count?

Why would it count if IU immediately revoked the scholly and he never made it to campus. Remember when the IU football team had stabbings on campus in Bloomington? Is there uproar to the coach at that time?
 
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