No I don't, my point was that the NCAA has to do a better job of policing or change the rules to a level playing field. Or, IU as well as any other program espousing playing by the rules will be on the outside looking in. NC and UK have national championships without strictly following the rules book. That's wrong and penalizes the programs doing it the right way. My other point was that by not strictly enforcing the rules the NCAA in effect condones the bad behavior and the end result is the whole of college basketball suffers, assuming the rules make sense and are in effect for the right reasons, which I'm not sure is the case. Fewer rules (laws) and stricter enforcement of those that have consensus from most people of strong moral character and values.
Tom Crean & Georgia
- Thread starter Pryght
- Start date
Tell that to Virginia, Villanova, Gonzaga, etc who have no problems winning and playing by the rules while they're at it.
VanPastorMan
Hall of Famer
Hindsight says only Woodson should have been hired. Trying to rank the others is subjective. We all have different criteria.
At this point, Woodson hasn't lost a game, hasn't lost a recruit, hasn't lost the team, hasn't lost to Purdue, hasn't gotten Indiana on probation, and hasn't made the program worse. Not bad for his first few weeks.
how do you know they're playing by the rules?
maybe they are, maybe they aren't. maybe they just haven't been caught yet. and they don't self-report.
So, that would be a “No, I don’t have any evidence whatsoever.” Thanks for clarifying.
How would you know? The NCAA doesn't investigate or hold accountable any of the real cheaters, really never has (Sam Gilbert at UCLA when the saintly John Wooden was coaching the best teams money could buy).
So, you’re using a situation from 50+ years ago as an example of how the NCAA behaves today? That doesn’t really make an argument in support of your position, which continues to offer no proof whatsoever. And if you knew UCLA’s history before SG came on the scene there, the story it tells is far more nuanced than you’re able to understand.
That seems to be the extent of your substantive contributions here. If you had anything of value to support your position, presumably you’d offer it. Since you don’t . . .
Where are the penalties on KU, U of A, Louisville and LSU for more recent lack of enforcement actions. Not sure what's so nuanced about giving kids cars and setting them up with high paying no work jobs. Clearly you are part of the "facts don't matter" or "I can make up whatever bs I want" to justify knowing nothing or simply not recognizing reality. Fool.
So, you believe the NCAA should penalize schools before they’ve (the NCAA) completed their investigatory and hearing protocol, as well as other aspects of their due process? These are procedures that are a part of their by-laws to all member institutions, yet you believe they shouldn’t exist? That’s really strange.
Crean at least teased us with a couple of Big Ten conference championships. I couldn't see Miller ever getting us there.
You do realize the NCAA has served all those universities Notice of Allegations regarding the FBI sting, some with multiple Level 1 allegations, and the universities are building cases to defend themselves before their hearing? There's a timeline and and a process that goes with these types of things.
Justice delayed, justice denied. Tell me what schools have received severe penalties in the last twenty years? Or, I guess every single school plays by the arcane NCAA rules all of the time.
Just because the NCAA hasn't ruled on anything yet doesn't mean it's not going to happen. People who are charged with crimes aren't convicted the next day you know?
Two of the biggest football schools around (USC and Miami) both were popped hard by the NCAA. Strange that you believe it’s okay for the NCAA to not follow their own rules, or that due process doesn’t matter. Hope we never find ourselves in the kind of situation you support.
I lost all faith in the NCAA and the "purity" of college sports in general when the UNC case was ruled to not be under the NCAA's jurisdiction.... I know that wasn't necessarily the NCAA's fault, but that was the most egregious case of academic fraud I can recall in the past few decades. The fact that there was no mechanism to punish the Tar Heels for what happened led me to realize we're in the wild west and it really just doesn't matter anymore.
And I'm pretty sure Kansas (after surveillance evidence proving misdeeds) feels pretty damned confident they're not going to be punished since Self received a lifetime contract
Haven't read it, but would guess Selfs' contract is void in the event he's hit with Level 1 infractions and receives a subsequent show cause. Guessing his lifetime contract was more or less a response to the North Carolina job opening which I'm sure coincidentally was given on the same day.
I hear you, but just about every school (including IU) would open themselves to unwanted and even unwarranted scrutiny if the NCAA were to suddenly become the arbiter of academic standards. None of the schools want it, and there’s a reason.
Remember when the survey of BiG assistant basketball coaches rated IU as being the second easiest school in which to gain admission? Do we really want all of that sausage making exposed? With few exceptions, the special admissions decisions that are common at most BiG schools would shine an undesired spotlight on some practices that wouldn’t make any alum particularly proud.
What was allowed to evolve at UNC wasn’t pretty, but plenty of non-athletes who were a part of it, too. Again, not sure anyone wants to go there, and no one should want the NCAA to invent rules in the middle of the game to make something a violation.
Where”s Danny D? Massive grin! I think mike Davis was better than Archie. If josh smith goes IU and not pro he could still be coach. He is a very good X and O guy and values D. Oh ya and went to final game. Cream won two big titles and was big coach of the year. Cream and Davis have done the best. Bar is low coach. Go Hoosiers!
If Davis didn't start struggling with recruiting, then losing out on Smith wouldn't have mattered. He didn't appear to have backup plans if his first option didn't come to IU. His biggest recruiting wins was a family friend in DJ White and a transfer in Marco. I guess Bracey would count too but he didn't end up as good as expected.
Fundamentals also seemed to go downhill the longer he was coach. He got his best results early on when he let Knight's recruits/players loose and let them play more freely. But when it was his recruits/players, it didn't go so well.
He couldn't maintain momentum. Between fundamentals going downhill and not being successful with recruiting, he wasn't keeping the program competitive.
Don’t disagree. Good analysis. Hard to do well when you don’t feel welcome and supported. I’m just ready to “not suck”. Go Hoosiers!
This is completely asinine. Archie above Crean and Davis?
Archie never even coached a NCAAT game. Never won 3 conference games in a row. Never beat Purdue. Do you also list Matt Doherty above Roy Williams because this is equally as absurd. Hell I’d put Dakich above Archie. Stop the insanity people.
You ever have a disagreement without trying to be insulting?
I commented that it was a close call to me. I think they were all fairly bad.
The NCAA gave them their notices of allegations and some of the schools have made their responses. Penalty phase still to come. It’s a very good bet there will be some. I’d also bet some significant ones.
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I often wonder if the recent lack of success by UNC and UK, etc. was due to the FBI scrutiny of these programs. Maybe they can’t buy the high end players they used to get, and their coaches haven’t adapted to coaching real college players. Something to think about, eh?
Excellent post. Who knows but certainly possible. Go Hoosiers!
I don’t think either was caught up in that investigation and UK’s recruiting class before last year was full of the usual five stars. They didn’t mesh and UK underachieved with them. I enjoyed that.
Perhaps not those specific schools, but I think the FBI shoe-money scandal seems to have had an affect on some blue bloods.
Not so much UNC but I've always stated that Duke getting into the one and done game made it exponentially harder for both programs to play the one and done game.
Then Memphis took Wiseman to dilute the OAD talent even more.
Davis does tell a pretty funny story about Josh Smith.
Said he went to watch Josh after he committed at one of the big AAU tournaments and Davis felt like the cock of the walk. He's watching him with Pitino and other big name coaches and Josh is showing out. Said Pitino put his arm around him and said while laughing, 'Mike, congratulations on a great recruiting win but....that kid isn't playing one minute of college basketball".
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