THIS Could Be a Problem...

Discussion in 'IU Football Board' started by 76-1, Dec 6, 2019.

  1. 76-1

    76-1 All-American
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  2. JohnsyRick

    JohnsyRick All-Big Ten
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    This isn’t about a contract, it’s about a HC opportunity in a place CKD knows, with assistants he knows and players he knows. If offered, and it appears he is likely to be, he should take it assuming that is what he wants right now. He’s a great guy and great coach, but having coaches that are in demand is a good thing. Be great to keep him another year or two, but if this is right for him at this time, wish him all the best. IU is certainly better for him having been here, even if it ends up being only one year.
     
  3. CC  Mac

    CC Mac All-Big Ten
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    Honestly,I think he would be gone after this year without the Fresno St opening.
    With the success we had this year he’s a hot name right now.
    On the flip side,since we did have a good year it could help us find a good replacement for him if he does leave.
     
  4. fkfootball

    fkfootball All-Big Ten
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    Allen’s new contract and the amount of offensive talent we have, will help CTA find a suitable replacement.
     
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  5. iubud

    iubud Hall of Famer
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    People get their panties in a wad over paying coaches market salaries. DeBoer is worth above average pay. We can't offer him a head coaching position if that is what he wants, but we should make him a very well paid OC.

    I would rather pay up for a successful coach than start looking for someone that will replace him. It costs a lot of time and money to hire a new employee. I would give him a big bump in pay.
     
  6. Tegray1

    Tegray1 Junior
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  7. JohnsyRick

    JohnsyRick All-Big Ten
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    I’m not so sure we lose him this year without the HC opportunity, especially at a place he knows so well. With the talent we have coming back he would likely be in even higher demand after next year. I just think this will be too good for him to pass up. I do agree we will have no issue finding a good replacement, however, that will be a tough call with Hart already on staff, do you promote him ? Or likely lose him too.
     
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  8. JohnsyRick

    JohnsyRick All-Big Ten
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    Fresno was paying Tedford something like 1.55M , we cannot offer our OC that much, plus as you said this is about being a HC.
     
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  9. CC  Mac

    CC Mac All-Big Ten
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    I agree it would take a HC to lose him. I guess I meant with all the openings his name would have popped up even without the Fresno job opening up.
    One huge advantage he has is he’s already had good success as a HC.
     
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  10. iubud

    iubud Hall of Famer
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    We can pay DeBoer $2 million if we want. McRobbie will just have to let us keep more of the TV revenue or bowl payouts.

    This program should have learned where going on the cheap has taken us. CTA worked out, but I am done risking sliding backward to get a cost cutter coach that might work out.
     
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  11. 76-1

    76-1 All-American
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    Ordinarily I agree with you but on this point I'm confused...

    Why can't we afford to pay our OC 1.55mil?

    Isn't he already making $850,000?

    He's proven he's worth the money (in my opinion)...
    Fred could tie much of it to performance (so you don't end up with a Brohmardi scenario)..
     
    11 76-1, Dec 6, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
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  12. JohnsyRick

    JohnsyRick All-Big Ten
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    So you are going to almost double his salary and make him one of the highest 5 or 6 paid assistants in the country ? I know everyone thinks we have unlimited cash, but we don’t, if we supported the team and filled our stadium regularly that would help. It also throws the salary structure of the entire staff into turmoil, even giving everyone else a raise , paying one guy 4-5 times what everyone else is making could cause issues.
    Look, I would love to keep him, but this is a HC opportunity, and they are likely to offer more than 1.55 , that is what Tedford was making, a new guy will get more. Hope I’m wrong and he stays, just think this may be too good to pass up, even if we did offer 1.5M .
     
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  13. JohnsyRick

    JohnsyRick All-Big Ten
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    I think only 2 or 3 assistants in the country make 2M, our budget isn’t the same as the LSU’s of the world I’m afraid.
     
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  14. 76-1

    76-1 All-American
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    I see this as an Opportunity...

    First Fred needs to find out what Deboers thoughts are on his future and structure a big time contract accordingly...

    It's just my opinion but I think that the smart move on his part is to stay at least 3 more years and parlay his continued success to a much better head coaching job than Fresno State...

    While I'm sure that going to Fresno would be a comfortable move for him, I think he can do much, much better...

    Personally, I'm hoping we can find a way to bring in Fresno's current OC as an Asst. Coach...;***when he and Deboer have been paired together great things seem to happen***..., of course..., the problem is where do you put him?
     
    14 76-1, Dec 6, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
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  15. 76-1

    76-1 All-American
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    This is blink or not blink time for Fred...

    I'm hoping we find a way to pay the guy.

    As far as the rest of the staff goes..., pffft... Who else on this staff has produced the way Deboer has?

    In my opinion, Deboer is worth 4-5 wins a year...

    Why go looking for another guy that "might" be that good when you already have him on staff???
     
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  16. mobilehoosier

    mobilehoosier Junior
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    Good post! I agree and I'm confident the correct conversations are taking place.
     
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  17. toastedbread

    toastedbread Hall of Famer
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    Deboer was the rockstar on the staff this year. He's likely the most talented member of the coaching staff. You pay him whatever you can. It's the difference between 6 wins and 10 imo.
     
  18. JohnsyRick

    JohnsyRick All-Big Ten
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    Again, because this is about a HEAD COACH position, if he leaves it isn’t about money, and this may come as a surprise but Allen and DeBoer can’t do it alone, they do need a staff. If DeBoer leaves ,a good replacement will be found, he is not the only really good OC out there.
    This is what happens at good programs, our fans just aren’t used to it, justifiably so .
     
  19. CC  Mac

    CC Mac All-Big Ten
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    Everything is not about money and even if it was,Fresno St will be able to offer more as a HC than we can as an assistant.
    If we kept him this year we would be going through this again next year.
    Good assistant coaches who have had previous success as a HC are a hot commodity.
    I’m sure he is wanting to get his own program,he will be gone later if not sooner in my opinion.
     
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  20. 76-1

    76-1 All-American
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    Like I said earlier, I usually agree with you, and very much value and appreciate your evaluations and information over the years on here..., in this case however, I think you're wrong...

    In my opinion, Deboer is one of the top OC's in the country... Thinking that we'll easily replace him is a Big Mistake (in my opinion)...

    If I were the AD I'd do literally Everything possible to find a way to A) support him and, B) keep him at least 3 more years...

    They'll be better Head Coaching opportunities out there for him...

    If we can't find a way to match up with the draw of a Fresno State..., we really aren't trying hard enough...
     
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  21. JohnsyRick

    JohnsyRick All-Big Ten
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    I will say again, and then I’m done, IF we lose Kalen to become HC at Fresno , it will not be about money. It will be about opportunity and what he feels is best for his family and future, period. So if you want to set the table as this being about IU not doing “enough” to keep him, fine, you are entitled to your opinion, wrong as it may be in this case.
     
  22. travlinhoosier

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    I’ve lived uphill from Fresno. It’s hot hot in extended summer; often stinky due to inversions in winter; otherwise not so bad. I’d happily live in Bloomington, I’d rather not live in Fresno.
     
  23. 76-1

    76-1 All-American
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    I was about to address that...

    In my opinion, Fresno is a place most are looking to leave, not return to...

    If it's a quality of life question Bloomington, Indiana wins every time...

    Fresno offers: high crime, poor air quality, and summer temperatures that routinely top the century mark..., plus it flat out stinks in areas...

    Bloomington isn't perfect but it tops Fresno in literally every way...
     
  24. Hoosier_Hack

    Hoosier_Hack All-Big Ten
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    I agree that we should try and keep him. That’s really all we can do. I have come around to believing Fred will make money available if needed on a case by case basis. I’m concerned about the DC we have and keeping some dry powder for that if something comes up. It appears to me that Fred has a lot of trust in CTA and believes CTA if CTA says we need it.
     
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  25. YOTHN

    YOTHN All-Big Ten
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    Sooo...what's Kevin Wilson up to? Vbg
     
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  26. mattndallas

    mattndallas All-Big Ten
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    Matt Canada?

    Chad Morris?
     
  27. Walt542

    Walt542 All-Big Ten
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    I have to agree with you in this one Johnny. It is about an HC job not the money. The only question is if CKD wants to give it another year or two here and try for a bigger HC job.
     
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  28. muubell

    muubell Sophomore
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    Bowl payments go into the Big Ten pool and are split among all teams.

    And on a personal note, there’s enough $ that taking a few symbolic dollars for academics isn’t going to hurt a damn thing....
     
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  29. secondasky

    secondasky Freshman
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    I'm wondering with the high tax rate in California if this could help be an equalizer. Also maybe a long shot but a well paid OC in a power 5 school worth a wait for a better HC opportunity vs Fresno?
     
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  30. Pigalow

    Pigalow All-American
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    I believe he has already received a 500K raise, but if we're being honest, if it's not Fresno State it's going to be someone else. This is what happens when you're successful, although it would be nice to see 2 years at least out of Deboer, but we can't necessarily control that. Just have to continue to make good hires.
     
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  31. iubud

    iubud Hall of Famer
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    I would tell people that complain to improve the defense, special teams or whatever your responsibility is and get a raise and make us want to keep you. If we have the best or top 10 at a particular spot, we should pay them what they are worth. Otherwise we are telling them we don't care if they stay.

    There are other good OCs we can hire. We will have to pay them what DeBoer is being paid or more. If we want to continue to improve, we can't have a new OC every year and recruit and build on our success.

    Offer Kalen what a top OC will earn and add 50% of the administrative and other costs of replacing him as a signing bonus. If he leaves, he is doing so for a HC position that we couldn't compete with. I would certainly look to hire a coach with a lot of upside to groom them to be the next OC. Maybe Mike Hart is that guy. If not, we can upgrade in other areas to get that coach in place.
     
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  32. iubud

    iubud Hall of Famer
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    Yes it is split among all teams. It is like the TV money. We receive it regardless of how we perform. It should go back into the program.
     
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  33. boston jamie

    boston jamie Junior
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    If he's offered (and he likely will be) and he has head coaching ambitions, he should take the job. I will be sad to see him leave for sure, but we should be able to attract top talent given who's returning next year across the entire offense.
     
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  34. Hoosier_Hack

    Hoosier_Hack All-Big Ten
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    Who grooms them? DC maybe but OC I don’t know who grooms....
     
  35. Palmbeachhoosier

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    Some are missing the point whether he leaves or stays is not about the money. It is about the job is this case. He has to decide if being a head coach in control of your own program is going to help more than being a coordinator at a BIG team. Which you are not in charge of and you have to believe in CTA and his program that it is not goi g to backslide then you could be in trouble. I hope he stays but if offered I don’t know that he will.
     
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  36. CC  Mac

    CC Mac All-Big Ten
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    Yes,this.
     
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  37. MMcCormick

    MMcCormick Recruit
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    Kalen Deboer's market value is approaching $2 million and Indiana if they were smart would pay it. It would be really hard to replace the value of what he has brought to the table. If I had a choice between keeping him or Allen, I'd choice him.
     
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  38. baileyiu

    baileyiu All-American
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    No way we pay him $2M, maybe $1.1M!
    There are a lot of really good OC’s out there that we can hire in the $750k range. We will be very attractive to a lot of OC’s - Penix, Scott, James, Whop, Fryfogle, solid OL+++!
     
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  39. Hoosiers Rising

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    I dont think that point is lost on people. If he wants a head job at a G5 program right now he is gone. If more $ will convince him to stay here awhile longer and maybe go directly to a P5 then I hope it is offered.
     
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  40. Palmbeachhoosier

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    My point is you may or may not have an offer now. But suppose another offer does not come and his goal is to be head football coach. As the head coach he has control of the program and better offer does not come from that it is on him. Whereas if he stays it is dependent on someone else’s program.
     

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