They don't even try to hide it.

INRanger27

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Jan 11, 2005
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Really? Cozying up to politicians who hold a lot of sway with your electorate has been a political tactic since the dawn of time. Trump obviously still holds a lot of sway in Ohio.

I'm not willing to write off Vance's entire political career because of what I see as a fairly genuine change opinion on Trump. I've read the book and listened to him speak a bunch, a Trump sycophant is not how I would escribe him. He appears to be a pretty independent thinker who is playing the political game needed to get him elected.
Trump is a piece of shit that is everything wrong with the GOP right now. He’s scum and anyone who cozies up to him is a pandering invertebrate and not a leader that we need.
 

Crayfish57

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Sep 18, 2013
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There is an overlap/ progression from the old Birchers to the Tea Party to the Trumpers. Similarities are dogmatic, unshakeable opinions, intolerance of other viewpoints and cozy little isolated worlds of their own. So, I agree that "Trumpers" existed before Trump, but with different names.

The left is not entirely free of this, but I'm responding to your comments about the Trump appeal to the Trumpers.
Entirely free of it? You aren't even remotely free from it.
raw
 
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Sope Creek

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Feb 5, 2003
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What!? Can't hear you!

Day two of a four-day window replacement project. Along with the new blinds/shades/whatever-they're-called my bride is having installed Saturday this project will cost as much as my first condo.
Can I say "plantation shutters" here?
 

HooDatGuy

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Sep 10, 2020
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Trump is a piece of shit that is everything wrong with the GOP right now. He’s scum and anyone who cozies up to him is a pandering invertebrate and not a leader that we need.
Sorry you feel that way. I think Vance is a good one.
 
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Stuffshot

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Feb 20, 2008
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Yep, and given all that there are many who still felt that he was a better option than anybody put forth by any of the other parties. Think about that. There are so many people starved to have their needs and wants reflected by a candidate that they had to basically come out for a guy like that.

Then they have quite a few people from the left calling them idiots and the like...or the trope we always hear about poor Republicans voting against their interests and needing to wise up and vote Democrats because nothing screams success like what that party did to the black community.

(Edited to be less attacking)
Those "starved" people often don't understand they are already receiving "socialist" benefits from the same government they are attacking and either lack or are totally out of practice in thinking critically when someone asserts a claim -- they don't know how to challenge it or confirm it either.

To Trump, they were like fish in a barrel, even though he didn't believe what he was dealing.

 

Stuffshot

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Feb 20, 2008
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Sorry you feel that way. I think Vance is a good one.
Vance, by not being a "career politician", has a proverbial snowball's chance of shepherding any legislation through Congress.

No matter whether he has a brilliant idea or not, it won't matter unless he sponsors a bill that actually gets passed. A rookie and iconoclast has little chance of doing that.

Reminds me of Trump -- he preaches good soundbites but he failed at building a wall from the Pacific to the Gulf, failed at repealing and replacing the ACA and attained a tax cut only by a law that built in automatic tax increases in 2021, 2023, 2025 and 2027 for the lower wage earners.

If Trump had campaigned in 2020 on the idea of voiding only the 2021 tax increase (but not those for 2023, 2025 and 2027) plus handled Covid much differently, he would have been reelected by a wide margin. But he didn't. He's just not that good of a politician when persuasion (not bullying and threatening) are called for.
 

IUCrazy2

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Mar 7, 2004
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Those "starved" people often don't understand they are already receiving "socialist" benefits from the same government they are attacking and either lack or are totally out of practice in thinking critically when someone asserts a claim -- they don't know how to challenge it or confirm it either.

To Trump, they were like fish in a barrel, even though he didn't believe what he was dealing.

I posted a thread on 4 Americas, I think that would touch on this. There are things there I disagree with but if you are arguing that lying politician lies and people vote for them based on lies I would like to assert that water is wet.
 

DANC

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lmao for you to have the temerity to write such a thing. you're worthy of ignoring. you're a far left, moronic hack who makes up fake stories and posts them. what could possibly be worse than fabricating bs stories. oh i know, pretending to be a conservative while doing it.
Hey, he used to be a Republican! lmao!
 
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DANC

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Trump is a piece of shit that is everything wrong with the GOP right now. He’s scum and anyone who cozies up to him is a pandering invertebrate and not a leader that we need.
'pandering invertebrate'? lol Well, I'll give you points for originality.
 

DANC

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Those "starved" people often don't understand they are already receiving "socialist" benefits from the same government they are attacking and either lack or are totally out of practice in thinking critically when someone asserts a claim -- they don't know how to challenge it or confirm it either.

To Trump, they were like fish in a barrel, even though he didn't believe what he was dealing.

Oh, The Atlantic. Now there's an objective source. :rolleyes:
 

Stuffshot

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Feb 20, 2008
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Fact check false







Maybe you can make sense of this and report back.
 

HooDatGuy

Senior
Sep 10, 2020
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Maybe you can make sense of this and report back.
Yeah, Trump effectively got rid of the individual mandate which will affect many people’s tax credit if they choose not to purchase qualified insurance. If they do still purchase insurance they’ll still receive the credit and their taxes won’t go up. Taxes will go up in 2027 because of a 10 year sunset on tax cuts passed through reconciliation.

The idea of a built in tax hike is something only uninformed idiots parrot.

Edit: Some of the articles you link even back me up on this and refute your claim. Some of them are completely off topic. Did you even bother reading them?
 
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DANC

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The Atlantic is as good a rag as there is right now. Many more hits than misses.
It's as biased as it gets. Just because it has some ineresting articles doesn't mean it's not leaning far left.
 

HooDatGuy

Senior
Sep 10, 2020
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You should at least read what Betsy Rader says about that sellout before you claim JD knows anything about that area.
Had to google her. An employment Lawyer, oh goodie we need more of those.

Seems jaded and jealous that Vance wrote a national bestseller and despite her success she toils in obscurity.

She also mischaracterizes Vance's view in the one op-ed I read of hers.
 
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mushroomgod_1

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Apr 9, 2012
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Vance, by not being a "career politician", has a proverbial snowball's chance of shepherding any legislation through Congress.

No matter whether he has a brilliant idea or not, it won't matter unless he sponsors a bill that actually gets passed. A rookie and iconoclast has little chance of doing that.

Reminds me of Trump -- he preaches good soundbites but he failed at building a wall from the Pacific to the Gulf, failed at repealing and replacing the ACA and attained a tax cut only by a law that built in automatic tax increases in 2021, 2023, 2025 and 2027 for the lower wage earners.

If Trump had campaigned in 2020 on the idea of voiding only the 2021 tax increase (but not those for 2023, 2025 and 2027) plus handled Covid much differently, he would have been reelected by a wide margin. But he didn't. He's just not that good of a politician when persuasion (not bullying and threatening) are called for.

Why would he have been reelected by a wide margin?

And, fyi, he lost no votes as a result of 2023, 2025, and 2027 tax policy. You couldn't be totally truthful in a post....you had to add some bs.

The truth is he lost because of Covid & Tweets. He would have otherwise won by a large margin.
 
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mcmurtry66

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Mar 14, 2019
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Why would he have been reelected by a wide margin?

And, fyi, he lost no votes as a result of 2023, 2025, and 2027 tax policy. You couldn't be totally truthful in a post....you had to add some bs.

The truth is he lost because of Covid & Tweets. He would have otherwise won by a large margin.
"The truth is he lost because of Covid & Tweets." Sort of. covid and the summer of love exposed his idiocy. he lost because he's off so voters came out of the bushes to vote against him (not for biden) or stayed home and didn't vote at all. biden's a cadaver and harris is vapid. that's one hell of an indictment on trump
 
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mushroomgod_1

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"The truth is he lost because of Covid & Tweets." Sort of. covid and the summer of love exposed his idiocy. he lost because he's off so voters came out of the bushes to vote against him (not for biden) or stayed home and didn't vote at all. biden's a cadaver and harris is vapid. that's one hell of an indictment on trump

It is. But he needed both the covid and tweets to lose. Blaming future tax policy is idiotic.
 
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rocket_knight

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Mar 11, 2004
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Had to google her. An employment Lawyer, oh goodie we need more of those.

Seems jaded and jealous that Vance wrote a national bestseller and despite her success she toils in obscurity.

She also mischaracterizes Vance's view in the one op-ed I read of hers.
Is this what you read? https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/i-grew-up-in-poverty-in-appalachia-jd-vances-hillbilly-elegy-doesnt-speak-for-me/2017/08/30/734abb38-891d-11e7-961d-2f373b3977ee_story.html

Did your kin spend themselves into the poor house with poor choices? I'm sure you saw where Cornell West also came out as jaded and jealous this week.
 

Stuffshot

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Feb 20, 2008
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Why would he have been reelected by a wide margin?

And, fyi, he lost no votes as a result of 2023, 2025, and 2027 tax policy. You couldn't be totally truthful in a post....you had to add some bs.

The truth is he lost because of Covid & Tweets. He would have otherwise won by a large margin.
I agree Trump should have handled Covid better -- that's in my post you responded to.

As for the tax issue, my post also suggested Trump would have been better off had he "campaigned in 2020 on the idea of voiding only the 2021 tax increase (but not those for 2023, 2025 and 2027)." I didn't say he should have campaigned on the 2023, 2025 and 2027 taxes. And, as of election day in November, 2020, any tax increase to arise in 2021 wasn't that far off and so I don't consider that one to be "future tax policy" as you commented.
 

DANC

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I agree Trump should have handled Covid better -- that's in my post you responded to.

As for the tax issue, my post also suggested Trump would have been better off had he "campaigned in 2020 on the idea of voiding only the 2021 tax increase (but not those for 2023, 2025 and 2027)." I didn't say he should have campaigned on the 2023, 2025 and 2027 taxes. And, as of election day in November, 2020, any tax increase to arise in 2021 wasn't that far off and so I don't consider that one to be "future tax policy" as you commented.
LMAO! You are the last person who should be commenting on tax rates, after your blunder about the 2017 tax cuts.

Who's going to pay for them? 🤣