They don't even try to hide it.

IUCrazy2

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BTW, there are tons of white folks here who aren't vaccinated . . . their trust for the government is nonexistent. Why?
Welcome back. Sounds like you have had some surgery, hope all is well.

As to lack of trust in government/media (I think the two are intertwined) there has been quite a bit of hiding the ball around COVID from the get go. Things that were forbidden topics that were censored from popular social media sites or were ridiculed by a Trump obsessed media (if he fir it, we agin it) were later found to be true or likely true.

So with that backdrop, the current vaccines do seem to have a higher than norm reporting of fatalities and complications than we have seen from many (most?) other vaccines that were released to the public in the past. The numbers are downplayed by the media but they burnt out their trust, particularly with the segment of the population that were being gaslit about things like China not being responsible for the virus and it not being possible this was a lab leak. Add in that for most younger, healthy people that the virus is not as deadly and you have people weighing their options.

Basically, lying has consequences, even if you think you are lying for good reasons. If the lie is found out, it erodes your credibility at a time when you most need your reputation to convince someone to see things your way.

Our media is the least trusted in the developed world. They are viewed as the mouthpiece of the government, which also scores low on the trust meter. Put all that together and you end up here.
 

Aloha Hoosier

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You are probably right.
I just smile that some are able to read the posts of the likes of DANC, cray, COH, Stoll, Lucy ;), Masa, ulrey, Floor, Fletch, HDG, Crazy, VPM, Univee, Hoopsdoc, Jet, mushroomhead, plus 2 obvious right leaning mods (IUJIM and NPT), in addition to those posters who say they're middle of the road, but save their ire exclusively for the Left, and finally those who really are central (you, Aloha, Brad, etc...), and want to claim this board is some sort of left-wing stronghold.

60-40 at most.
It's all about Trump! ;) I used to be called an extreme right winger at times. Now I don't believe I ever was except in comparison to our extreme left wingers, but since I'm definitely anti-Trump and Trumpism, now I'm a middle of the roader.

Am I the only one that thinks Lucy is really a lefty playing a crazy right for laughs?
 

Sope Creek

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Then I’m done with him.
From the link in the OP:
"Earlier this year, Vance met with Trump at Mar-a-Lago. He also attended his rally in Ohio late last month. And his connection with the pro-Trump donor Peter Thiel may further help soften any bad feelings Trump could have for Vance."
 

INRanger27

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From the link in the OP:
"Earlier this year, Vance met with Trump at Mar-a-Lago. He also attended his rally in Ohio late last month. And his connection with the pro-Trump donor Peter Thiel may further help soften any bad feelings Trump could have for Vance."
I have no problem with using Thiel as a donor. He’s more of a libertarian than a Trumper.

At some point the GOP has to snap out of the Trump Nightmare - and at some point the Democrats have to snap out of making everything about Trump. All publicity is good publicity.
 

IUCrazy2

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I just looked it up on Google Maps...Denigration is a two-way street. 😉
Absolutely is a two way street. I can see the appeal of more urban but also having space (thus where I live). I think the case can be made that those who are smacking at "flyover country" are doing that from a position where they are basically punching down though. So, not only is the country basically ran by people in a small corridor from D.C. to New York with a small corridor in California thrown in, they are also the ones who are some of the most vociferous in their denigration of those who live in between. That is not only a Democrat thing mind you, there are many Republicans who occupy the same area who, even though they get the votes from these people, they have no damn clue about them either.
 

Crayfish57

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I'm with you there.
In the same way Uncle Mark does for the left ? Bulk, a few beers on a rainy afternoon but be fair. Like I said I figured out how to joust with you, and some respect to other views and I dont think I ever called you stupid, a few other things maybe :);) . I can see your wanting out of small town. I have been on the road touring Indiana for 35 yrs going to auctions and I see it and its sad. Not sure where you were referring to ? Ive been thru most of the northern half from Indy .
 

Univee2

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We looked in Tellico Village a few years back . . . nice place. Saw a former coworker at a local grill there and said "no thanks".

We're still interested in places like Cashiers, Lake Senteelah, and Brevard/Hendersonville . . . might look around the Winchester/Tim's Ford area in Tennessee. So far I'm not advancing this argument much . . . and my cousin's husband isn't persuading her of the advantages of moving either.

Our last expedition started in Asheville, staying with friends who recently relocated after John retired from P&G. This was our base for visits to Hendersonville, Arden and Brevard. Looked at a nice area - Mission Hills - in Hendersonville. But, overall, my impression of Hendersonville was nowhere near as positive as it had been about a decade ago. It's much too crowded around the little downtown area and the traffic is horrible. Didn't help that 26 around Asheville/Hendersonville is under major reconstruction.

Next expedition is to Tellico, Rarity Bay, WindRiver, Jasper Highlands, all around Tellico Lake, and Fairfield Glade, a little further west.

And, you can't say "Reynolds Plantation" anymore. You'll be canceled. It's now Reynolds Lake Oconee.
 

Bulk VanderHuge

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The Southern Sun
In the same way Uncle Mark does for the left ? Bulk, a few beers on a rainy afternoon but be fair. Like I said I figured out how to joust with you, and some respect to other views and I dont think I ever called you stupid, a few other things maybe :);) . I can see your wanting out of small town. I have been on the road touring Indiana for 35 yrs going to auctions and I see it and its sad. Not sure where you were referring to ? Ive been thru most of the northern half from Indy .
I truly believe Uncle Mark is genuine. That's why I enjoy his posts.
I truly believe Lucy is about as real as a 3 dollar bill. That's why I enjoy his posts.

Heck, for all we know, Uncle Mark may be Lucy. :)
Or, Lucy may be Uncle Mark. 🤯
 

outside shooter

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Off to ignoreland goes the fake Ranger, #4 among the biggest arseholes on this forum, this century.

Well done, fake Ranger!
 

Sope Creek

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I have no problem with using Thiel as a donor. He’s more of a libertarian than a Trumper.

At some point the GOP has to snap out of the Trump Nightmare - and at some point the Democrats have to snap out of making everything about Trump. All publicity is good publicity.
Well, we elected a policy wonk and ended up with a sexual harasser. Then we elected a reformed drunk who diverted us from a just and proper war to one that could have been for personal reasons. Then we elected an inexperienced neophyte . . . and then we elected Trump.

We are far afield from centrist policies . . . hell, we're getting ready for a violent challenge to our democracy. Some people just don't have enough to do . . . .

What's going to snap the GOP and Democrats out of their current funks? Personally, I think we need good old boring politics focused on sound policy . . . and take the religious fervor out of politics. The divisions we have aren't based on anything rational . . . they're pure emotion-driven.

There's a guy on Atlanta's city council who has been featured on the news a couple of times regarding the city's need to spend money on fire trucks, which cost $1.4 million each. He's talking about the need to spend money now to ensure that the city has fire engines to fight fires (there've been two towed away from fire locations in the past couple of weeks), and a two-year plan to buy all 5. He's boring as hell, but he's got my attention . . . that's what we need nationally.
 
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Crayfish57

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Absolutely is a two way street. I can see the appeal of more urban but also having space (thus where I live). I think the case can be made that those who are smacking at "flyover country" are doing that from a position where they are basically punching down though. So, not only is the country basically ran by people in a small corridor from D.C. to New York with a small corridor in California thrown in, they are also the ones who are some of the most vociferous in their denigration of those who live in between. That is not only a Democrat thing mind you, there are many Republicans who occupy the same area who, even though they get the votes from these people, they have no damn clue about them either.
Wherever someone choose to live and the whole denigration really isnt any different than the racial stuff thrown up and there are probably ethnic charts. I'm sure cosmic Kid would research it . Why is it so important to people where someone else lives and the push from mostly urban people to tell others how to live? I could care less, I like sports so yeah I get that . Is it worth it ? To me no wouldn't be .
 

Sope Creek

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Our last expedition started in Asheville, staying with friends who recently relocated after John retired from P&G. This was our base for visits to Hendersonville, Arden and Brevard. Looked at a nice area - Mission Hills - in Hendersonville. But, overall, my impression of Hendersonville was nowhere near as positive as it had been about a decade ago. It's much too crowded around the little downtown area and the traffic is horrible. Didn't help that 26 around Asheville/Hendersonville is under major reconstruction.

Next expedition is to Tellico, Rarity Bay, WindRiver, Jasper Highlands, all around Tellico Lake, and Fairfield Glade, a little further west.

And, you can't say "Reynolds Plantation" anymore. You'll be canceled. It's now Reynolds Lake Oconee.
We've got Cullowhee on our radar too. Love Black Mountain too . . . but it's a little pricey for what you get.

Regarding Reynolds, I'm fully aware but wanted you to know what I was talking about. <GRIN>
 

Cortez88

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I don’t doubt the pain at all.

I’m not arguing the latter point whatsoever. I’m merely pointing out that to say the reason we’re not at herd immunity on the vaccine side isn’t a “white GOP” problem. There are multiple facets and angry white morons is only one of them….

You and I know that, but the Master of Testimony - who lords over a society of 7M professionals - does not.
Of course it’s not that simple, but the recent data is showing that the most new cases are in more rural areas of places like Arkansas, Missouri, etc.
 

Crayfish57

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Well, we elected a policy wonk and ended up with a sexual harasser. Then we elected a reformed drunk who diverted us from a just and proper war to one that could have been for personal reasons. Then we elected an inexperienced neophyte . . . and then we elected Trump.

We are far afield from centrist policies . . . hell, we're getting ready for a violent challenge to our democracy.

What's going to snap the GOP and Democrats out of their current funks? Personally, I think we need good old boring politics focused on sound policy . . . and take the religious fervor out of politics. The divisions we have aren't based on anything rational . . . they're pure emotion-driven.

There's a guy on Atlanta's city council who has been featured on the news a couple of times regarding the city's need to spend money on fire trucks, which cost $1.4 million each. He's talking about the need to spend money now to ensure that the city has fire engines to fight fires (there've been two towed away from fire locations in the past couple of weeks), and a two-year plan to buy all 5. He's boring as hell, but he's got my attention . . . that's what we need nationally.

I haven't a clue on the top half and doubt anyone else does.

Maybe should Atlanta be keeping up with maintenance? How many miles a year do fire trucks actually get driven and used? They are built like tanks to begin with so maybe spend a little to maintain them than spend a million and a half to just get new ones.
 

INRanger27

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Jan 11, 2005
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Well, we elected a policy wonk and ended up with a sexual harasser. Then we elected a reformed drunk who diverted us from a just and proper war to one that could have been for personal reasons. Then we elected an inexperienced neophyte . . . and then we elected Trump.

We are far afield from centrist policies . . . hell, we're getting ready for a violent challenge to our democracy. Some people just don't have enough to do . . . .

What's going to snap the GOP and Democrats out of their current funks? Personally, I think we need good old boring politics focused on sound policy . . . and take the religious fervor out of politics. The divisions we have aren't based on anything rational . . . they're pure emotion-driven.

There's a guy on Atlanta's city council who has been featured on the news a couple of times regarding the city's need to spend money on fire trucks, which cost $1.4 million each. He's talking about the need to spend money now to ensure that the city has fire engines to fight fires (there've been two towed away from fire locations in the past couple of weeks), and a two-year plan to buy all 5. He's boring as hell, but he's got my attention . . . that's what we need nationally.
We need more Eric Adams’ and more Massies in politics. More people with real experience and perspective and that had to have what “it” takes to succeed.

We also need an honest media - something we are a far cry away from.
 

mcmurtry66

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I truly believe Uncle Mark is genuine. That's why I enjoy his posts.
I truly believe Lucy is about as real as a 3 dollar bill. That's why I enjoy his posts.

Heck, for all we know, Uncle Mark may be Lucy. :)
Or, Lucy may be Uncle Mark. 🤯
Or someone else could....
 

INRanger27

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Of course it’s not that simple, but the recent data is showing that the most new cases are in more rural areas of places like Arkansas, Missouri, etc.
Of course.

Outside Shooter’s argument is that it’s being led by dumb white people - while he ignores the African American problem. I’m saying it’s both - but he would blame congresspeople which is sheer lunacy.
 
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Sope Creek

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Welcome back. Sounds like you have had some surgery, hope all is well.

As to lack of trust in government/media (I think the two are intertwined) there has been quite a bit of hiding the ball around COVID from the get go. Things that were forbidden topics that were censored from popular social media sites or were ridiculed by a Trump obsessed media (if he fir it, we agin it) were later found to be true or likely true.

So with that backdrop, the current vaccines do seem to have a higher than norm reporting of fatalities and complications than we have seen from many (most?) other vaccines that were released to the public in the past. The numbers are downplayed by the media but they burnt out their trust, particularly with the segment of the population that were being gaslit about things like China not being responsible for the virus and it not being possible this was a lab leak. Add in that for most younger, healthy people that the virus is not as deadly and you have people weighing their options.

Basically, lying has consequences, even if you think you are lying for good reasons. If the lie is found out, it erodes your credibility at a time when you most need your reputation to convince someone to see things your way.

Our media is the least trusted in the developed world. They are viewed as the mouthpiece of the government, which also scores low on the trust meter. Put all that together and you end up here.
Thanks Crazy. Just a couple of skin cancer removals - one a melanoma in situ about 18 months ago and another basal cell carcinoma just removed. They're costing me some skin though . . . 51 stitches in the last 5 years, 33 in the last two. I'm sure it won't be the last either . . . they found this basal cell carcinoma in the 2 year followups scheduled every 3 months since the melanoma surgery.

Regarding the media, I guess folks want perfection from them (the media), government and the other side. I have a pretty good filter, and can hold stuff in abeyance until all of the dust settles. I don't require perfection from the get-go from anybody any more, not even myself. Those who do are either setting themselves up to be disappointed or setting themselves up to be defrauded. There's a good bit of both going on now . . . I guess I'd rather be skeptical than disappointed or defrauded.
 
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Sope Creek

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I haven't a clue on the top half and doubt anyone else does.

Maybe should Atlanta be keeping up with maintenance? How many miles a year do fire trucks actually get driven and used? They are built like tanks to begin with so maybe spend a little to maintain them than spend a million and a half to just get new ones.
We live in a society of distractions . . . folks would prefer to talk about the latest outrage to keep the divisions hostile to each other than take care of the business of what we have in common. The business of what we have in common is hard enough without the distractions.

Plus, the maintenance is no longer practicable . . . I think.
 
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HooDatGuy

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Then I’m done with him.
Really? Cozying up to politicians who hold a lot of sway with your electorate has been a political tactic since the dawn of time. Trump obviously still holds a lot of sway in Ohio.

I'm not willing to write off Vance's entire political career because of what I see as a fairly genuine change opinion on Trump. I've read the book and listened to him speak a bunch, a Trump sycophant is not how I would escribe him. He appears to be a pretty independent thinker who is playing the political game needed to get him elected.
 

IUCrazy2

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Thanks Crazy. Just a couple of skin cancer removals - one a melanoma in situ about 18 months ago and another basal cell carcinoma just removed. They're costing me some skin though . . . 51 stitches in the last 5 years, 33 in the last two. I'm sure it won't be the last either . . . they found this basal cell carcinoma in the 2 year followups scheduled every 3 months since the melanoma surgery.

Regarding the media, I guess folks want perfection from them, government and the other side. I have a pretty good filter, and can hold stuff in abeyance until all of the dust settles. I don't require perfection from the get-go from anybody any more, not even myself. Those who do are either setting themselves up to be disappointed or setting themselves up to be defrauded. There's a good bit of both going on now . . . I guess I'd rather be skeptical than disappointed or defrauded..
That sounds less than fun. On the bright side they are catching things before they progress?

I think your last sentence is where many of the people who are a little leery of the vaccine find themselves.

On the media, I don't think people want/need perfection but I think they do desire something better than what we have. I think that is something that cuts across all lines.
 

Univee2

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Thanks Crazy. Just a couple of skin cancer removals - one a melanoma in situ about 18 months ago and another basal cell carcinoma just removed. They're costing me some skin though . . . 51 stitches in the last 5 years, 33 in the last two. I'm sure it won't be the last either . . . they found this basal cell carcinoma in the 2 year followups scheduled every 3 months since the melanoma surgery.

Regarding the media, I guess folks want perfection from them, government and the other side. I have a pretty good filter, and can hold stuff in abeyance until all of the dust settles. I don't require perfection from the get-go from anybody any more, not even myself. Those who do are either setting themselves up to be disappointed or setting themselves up to be defrauded. There's a good bit of both going on now . . . I guess I'd rather be skeptical than disappointed or defrauded..

Glad you're back. I have some AK issues on face and hands but the Dermatologist seems to have it under control, with semi-annual spot freezing.

Interested in your take on Woodson, given the ATL connection. Haven't been this intrigued/excited about IU hoops in some time. Not expecting miracles but sure hoping the program is on a rapid upswing.
 

Crayfish57

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Really maintainance on a 1.4 million dollar truck that likely doesnt put 5,000 miles a year on? Probably not 2500 besides grocery store runs. Seems it would be worth taking care of them. The tech isn't that much different, get there pump water and have ladders. 1.4 million a truck just seems like quite a bit to me to just say hey get new ones. They probably only need brake jobs every 10 years.
We live in a society of distractions . . . folks would prefer to talk about the latest outrage to keep the divisions hostile to each other than take care of the business of what we have in common. The business of what we have in common is hard enough without the distractions.

Plus, the maintenance is no longer practicable . . . I think.
 

Stuffshot

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I still have trouble reconciling Obama winning IN in 2008 and then Trump winning by large margins in 2016/20. Boggles the mind. The people weren't all that different. There was no influx (like say GA or Nevada) of newer voters. Seems odd there would be a shift that large on just policy grounds. I used to think Trump really did bring folks out of the woodwork that had no intention of ever being involved in the voting process. But in 2016 there were about 140,000 fewer votes case than in 2008. 2020 was a different story but I think that was true everywhere relative to turnout. Trump's vote share as a Republican in 2016 was the worst since Gerald Ford in 76**.

Hillary was a terrible candidate for the Dems.



** absent the Perot years
The reason might have been the opponents and not "policy grounds."

You might not need to create a new brilliant offense to beat Slippery Rock.

On-This-Day-McCain-chooses-Palin-as-running-mate.jpg
 
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Sope Creek

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Glad you're back. I have some AK issues on face and hands but the Dermatologist seems to have it under control, with semi-annual spot freezing.

Interested in your take on Woodson, given the ATL connection. Haven't been this intrigued/excited about IU hoops in some time. Not expecting miracles but sure hoping the program is on a rapid upswing.
I mentioned Woody on the free board when Crean was let go, and then recalled that some of the Hawks players got tired of hearing his voice - a voice of the Hawks (Steve Holman) comment - and so I withheld pumping him up. I also recalled that Woody's offense was primarily iso-Joe Johnson in those days . . . but that might have been more of a personnel limitation at the time. I don't recall much reaction when I mentioned Woody then . . . .

I think he'll get more effort from players on defense . . . and in my lifetime, IU's defense was its brand/calling card. I could get excited about that . . . but would prefer to defend without a shot clock. I recall IU defending so well for so long that teams like Wisconsin had to reset the offense 4-5 times . . . we'd give IU a standing O for defense . . . then the opponent would miss a hurried/off-balance shot and IU would rebound the miss and go score . . . we'd get free McDonald's french fries if IU held an opponent under 50, and more if IU held them under 40.
 
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Sope Creek

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Really maintainance on a 1.4 million dollar truck that likely doesnt put 5,000 miles a year on? Probably not 2500 besides grocery store runs. Seems it would be worth taking care of them. The tech isn't that much different, get there pump water and have ladders. 1.4 million a truck just seems like quite a bit to me to just say hey get new ones. They probably only need brake jobs every 10 years.
You ever been to Atlanta? They'd put 5000 miles on an engine in 3 months, maybe less . . . .
 
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Crayfish57

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You ever been to Atlanta? They'd put 5000 miles on an engine in 3 months, maybe less . . . .
No I have never been, how big are the fire districts? Regardless diesel engines in those rigs you would be talking 20k a year which isnt even break in on a new one. Just seems prevention would be a better way to spend money to me.
 

Sope Creek

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No I have never been, how big are the fire districts? Regardless diesel engines in those rigs you would be talking 20k a year which isnt even break in on a new one. Just seems prevention would be a better way to spend money to me.
Well, the city councilman is closer to this than either of us. He did a good job of laying out what he thought the city should do. You and I are trying to substitute our judgments for his . . . but neither of us has been elected so our judgments don't count. He has data regarding the current trucks usage . . . I don't know whether he has a donor who stands to gain from selling firetrucks to the city, but unless that's the case I'd have to concede that we ought to grant him a good bit of discretion to do what he thinks is the right thing . . . .
 

Stuffshot

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Trumpers existed long before Trump. They just went by different names.
Trump found a way to appeal to them.
There is an overlap/ progression from the old Birchers to the Tea Party to the Trumpers. Similarities are dogmatic, unshakeable opinions, intolerance of other viewpoints and cozy little isolated worlds of their own. So, I agree that "Trumpers" existed before Trump, but with different names.

The left is not entirely free of this, but I'm responding to your comments about the Trump appeal to the Trumpers.
 
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