the white woman and the african american in central park
- Thread starter kurt cloverdales
- Start date
A
anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
There is an additional wrinkle to all of this, though i mostly agree with the general vibe of the thread. Cooper, the dude, told her he “had to do what he has to do” with respect to her dog being off the leash. He later claimed that meant using treats to lure the dog out of the protected area but that was a very poor choice of words that many people (women especially) may find threatening.
A
anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
He actually said a phrase that could have been perceived as a threat to her dog.
The woman is clearly an idiot and deserves to be branded a racist, but I disagree with the thought that she didn’t feel threatened. He vaguely threatened her.
A
anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
Read more about what he said to her before video. Nothing is typically as simple as it seems.
A
anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
He did escalate and the guy’s a douchebag for confronting someone like this over a path and birdway.
Still, she acted completely inappropriately and deserves what happened to her.
Both of them should be ashamed of themselves. Her over a dumb dog and him over dumb birds.
What you're missing is the guy was bird watching, in a portion of the park where the law requires dogs to be leashed. it wasn't that he had a dog and their dogs were getting aggressive to each other, or any kind of pet interaction. She was not obeying the rules and he asked her to do so. HER ONLY LEGITIMATE response was to LEASH her dog., which she refused to do. And she made matters worse by threatening him. She should be cited for breaking leash laws, and arrested for her false crime report.
I feel much more comfortable when meeting a person with a dog on the trail or sidewalk if the dog is leashed. Some dogs have a strong sense of protecting their owners and can be unpredictable.
Seldom do I see a dog unleashed. If I did, I probably wouldn't lecture the dog walker about leash laws. Having said that, I don't find fault with the gentleman who took the time to remind the lady about the local leash laws.
Seldom do I see a dog unleashed. If I did, I probably wouldn't lecture the dog walker about leash laws. Having said that, I don't find fault with the gentleman who took the time to remind the lady about the local leash laws.
Just in general, people are on edge. No touching, no smiles and everyone thinks covid is coming to get them. We have a thread about the adverse mental health aspects of this lockdown, and these people aren't immune to them.
flip that he should have said his piece then moved on unless he has authority to arrest or fine her
I think you guys are kind of missing the key point, here. Regardless of whether or not he was a snotty little dick about the whole thing, the real problem here is:
1. She weaponized her whiteness and his blackness and use that to wield the power of law enforcement against him.
2. We live in a society where that is a viable social strategy.
That's a serious problem, and it's a problem regardless of whether or not Mr. Birdwatcher needs to get off his high horse.
A
anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
I’m not missing that at all. I think you’re putting too much into that first bucket without considering all the facts. It’s not about him acting like a poopyhead, it’s that most haven’t read the full story where he admitted saying ambiguous phrases like “I’m going to have to do what I have to do.” To a woman, regardless of color, that can be a threat. He is guilty in this scenario also, but the language and racial-based response she delivered was completely asinine and she deserves the reaction she’s received from her employer.
She threatened to have his life ruined by her clearly worded threat. She got what she wanted, just the wrong person.
VanPastorMan
Hall of Famer
Overkill? Should we just bring the death penalty on her? This was a situation where on both sides cooler heads could have stopped this.
Did he suggest that his phrase was meant to be seen as a physical threat? It reads like "I'm going to have to
He didn't behave perfectly. There are aspects he could have done better, but for the most part I thought he acquitted himself okay. I'm not really seeing any parts where she did okay.
A
anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
He said I’m gonna have to do what I have to do. Period. Nobody knows what that means in the heat of it.
He didn’t acquit himself well at all. He started a confrontation over a stupid ass bird trail. She handled it as poorly as one can, and made it racial, but the guy isn’t innocent in any way other than legally. Both are morons and one out-moroned the other.
In the heat of it? I respectfully disagree, Ranger. You're assuming "heat of it" to something that could just as easily be benign. That's not a threat absent something that offers more context. You obviously don't care about birdwatching, but this guy does. I didn't say he was "innocent", but he didn't start a confrontation. He asked someone to follow the rules about something which he cares. She turned it into a confrontation.
I had a similar encounter several years ago with a guy who was letting his dog run around leashless in the area of a nearby park where little kids play soccer. His little dog dropped a load in the middle of the field and he walked off like he didn't see it. I told him that he must have missed what his dog left behind and he got super defensive just like this woman did in NY. I wasn't "innocent", but I didn't start a problem. I asked him to clean up after his dog, but he didn't care that little kids would be rolling around in that grass later. Just like this guy, this lady didn't care that dogs running around leashless in that area of the park causes problems for what it was set aside for. That someone else does care doesn't make them morons.
He didn't "start" anything. She was not following the rules of use for the park. That was wrong. She started it.
His choice was then A) to point it out to her, or B) to bow to white privilege and just understand that white people ought to be able to do what they damn well please. He chose A. Nothing wrong with that.
She refused to so anything. So, she escalated it.
It was a minor mistake on his part to then pull out the dog treats. That's annoying. In no way, though, is it an assault. Saying that she was physically threatened, and going batshit crazy about it, was way out of line. She escalated it further.
Seeing her batshit craziness, he decides to document the behavior on video. Nothing wrong with that.
Chasing him and trying to get him to stop filming escalated it further.
She then follows through on her threat to report that a big scary black man poses a danger to her very existence. That escalated the crap out of it.
This was not a 50-50, both sides were bad situation.
More like 99.9- 0.1
His choice was then A) to point it out to her, or B) to bow to white privilege and just understand that white people ought to be able to do what they damn well please. He chose A. Nothing wrong with that.
She refused to so anything. So, she escalated it.
It was a minor mistake on his part to then pull out the dog treats. That's annoying. In no way, though, is it an assault. Saying that she was physically threatened, and going batshit crazy about it, was way out of line. She escalated it further.
Seeing her batshit craziness, he decides to document the behavior on video. Nothing wrong with that.
Chasing him and trying to get him to stop filming escalated it further.
She then follows through on her threat to report that a big scary black man poses a danger to her very existence. That escalated the crap out of it.
This was not a 50-50, both sides were bad situation.
More like 99.9- 0.1
A
anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
I’m lost mate. Read the transcript. He ambiguously says “Look, if you’re going to do what you want, I’m going to do what I want, but you’re not going to like it.”
If you’re a lone woman walking in the park and someone says that to you amidst a confrontation and you can quickly deduce he means filming you then you’re a goddamned Nostradomic genius.
I’m not defending her actions. She reacted vilely. But his word choice was very poor. Anybody claiming otherwise is promoting a narrative for a narrative’s sake.
For what it’s worth, the most ridiculous people I come by in the world are single dog owners. In most of my personal cases, they treat their dogs like children and think they have the same rights as children would. They’re super annoying. I’m glad the guy stood up for his trail - but that wording he used is very confrontational, ambiguous, and easily perceived as a threat. That you’d disagree is remarkable to me.
https://nypost.com/2020/05/26/christian-cooper-recounts-amy-cooper-incident-before-video-footage/
I disagree. It’s the couple with no kids dog owners. They treat their dogs better than anyone treats their kids.
Hard to have a conversation with someone who does the "anybody who differs with me is (insert hyperbolic nonsense here)" thing.
But, it's good to see that you've backed off of your calling him a moron and insisting, "He started a confrontation over a stupid ass bird trail" because it you didn't sound very "glad" about it.
Anyway, like I said, I don't think the guy was perfect in his behavior. I likely would have approached it a little differently, but I don't have huge problems with how he handled it overall. If that's remarkable to you, them's the breaks.
Ah more "you all" posts from our resident whiner-in-chief. You're just like the President...all fake victim all the time.
Most people have problems itemizing situations like this. They hang their hat on whatever aspect was "worse" or triggers them personally and they run to Yabutt Yabutt. Too bad because it is a useful exercise.
One could easily talk about the perceived threats a woman alone in a park might infer from "I am going to do what I want and you aren't going to like it" let alone the fear that a dog hater might be offering poisoned treats or a real favorite of dog haters...glass shards in treats.
IMO there was plenty of bad behavior in the Ramble that morning but her's was worse so we will focus only on that and shame anyone that suggests both participants could improve their citizenship.
A
anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
It’s not a conversation worth having if you are quick to jump to the “she weaponized her whiteness” narrative and won’t even consider what it means when a guy who is 50% bigger than a lone woman says “I’m gonna do what I’m gonna do and you’re not gonna like it” as a way of escalating the confrontation. Them is indeed the breaks.
Saying something to the woman violating park rules is fine - escalating with statements easily perceived as threats is not - especially over a bird trail.
A
anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
Guest
Don’t conflate - these are discrete events and each worthy of their own discussion. The young dudes in the Minneapolis gym handled themselves far more maturely than did the Harvard - educated bird lover.
Also this... Christian Cooper is a Harvard grad and senior biomedical editor at Health Science Communications, who also once worked as an editor for Marvel Comics.
I'm not ignoring that. I just don't want the reality of what she did to be subsumed by "They were both wrong" platitudes, like Crazy is doing.
You can clearly hear him ask her to "stay away". It doesn't seem like he had any more interest in getting close to her than she had in having him close. He also says "thank you" as soon as she leashes her dog, and repeatedly tells her to "please call the police" every time she threatens to do so. The most ridiculous part is when she's talking fairly calmly to the 911 (really??) operator and then goes into her fake "help he's coming to hurt me" voice...
Sorry but I think she's about 95% to blame and clearly in the wrong. Why would leashing your dog be anything but the proper response to someone asking you to do so when that is what you are SUPPOSED to do? Had she simply done what she SHOULD HAVE done, he'd have said "thanks", she'd still have her job and her dog. You break the rules- you live with the consequences...
I'm going to bet that he would have videoed ANYBODY that was leaving their dos unleashed. She on the other hand would not have threatened to call the cops and say an AA man was "threatening her" had he not been Black. I even have a sneaky suspicion if it had been someone white, she likely would have gone ahead and leashed her dog. In other words, I don't think he saw it as any type of "racial incident" and she saw it that way from the outset...
Similar threads
