ADVERTISEMENT

The Swedish Experiment

sglowrider

Hall of Famer
Gold Member
Apr 9, 2012
27,377
23,498
113
Tiny Red Dot
Good thread on Sweden and whether their different approach has been vindicated.


tl;dr It hasn’t.

Plus I think it really needs to be taken into account that Swedes have been generally been a lot better with social distancing than a lot of other countries.
 
Last edited:
Good thread on Sweden and whether their different approach has been vindicated.


tl;dr It hasn’t.

Plus I think it really needs to be taken into account that Swedes have been generally been a lot better with social distancing than a lot of other countries.

This has turned into a very contentious topic on the yahoo forums, and the bots are out in force. The Swedes have led the world in the most virus deaths for the past 2 weeks, and that is while fellow Scandanavian neighbors like Denmark and Norway are back to nearly pre-lockdown operating status and their deaths are falling.

Sweden is the right-wing cause celebre de jour because they didn't "wreck their economy". But Swedish officials seem pretty open about admitting that they gravely miscalculated the cost in lives. And the figures I've seen show that by the end of April only about 7% of the populace in Stockholm had developed antibodies...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/c...19-policy-model-for-right-also-a-deadly-folly
 
  • Like
Reactions: sglowrider
This has turned into a very contentious topic on the yahoo forums, and the bots are out in force. The Swedes have led the world in the most virus deaths for the past 2 weeks, and that is while fellow Scandanavian neighbors like Denmark and Norway are back to nearly pre-lockdown operating status and their deaths are falling.

Sweden is the right-wing cause celebre de jour because they didn't "wreck their economy". But Swedish officials seem pretty open about admitting that they gravely miscalculated the cost in lives. And the figures I've seen show that by the end of April only about 7% of the populace in Stockholm had developed antibodies...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/c...19-policy-model-for-right-also-a-deadly-folly


worthless stats in both links for strategy debate.

if using to debate/establish strategies for dealing with covid, any stats not broken down by age groups are worthless, as the age factor is just far too great to be absent from any debate on the subject..

the refusal to acknowledge reality by the entire world is insane.
 
worthless stats in both links for strategy debate.

if using to debate/establish strategies for dealing with covid, any stats not broken down by age groups are worthless, as the age factor is just far too great to be absent from any debate on the subject..

the refusal to acknowledge reality by the entire world is insane.

Its useful in that Sweden is near the top with no signs of slowing down. Herd immunity is a tough bullet to bite. UK and US is due to incompetence. Brazil's leader still has his head in the sand -- so bad that he is on his 3rd Health Minister in the last 2 months.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortality_due_to_COVID-19#Mortality_by_age

here's a good age chart on wiki broken down by age.

i prefer actual totals more than percentages, since percentages are dependent on testing numbers, but percentages are better than nothing.
---------------------------------------------------------------------



US covid death thru 5/16/2020 by age per CDC

under 1 yr old, 3 deaths
1- 4 yrs, 2
5-14 yrs 7
15-24 yrs 76
25-34 yrs 463
35-44 yrs 1,186
45-54 3,338
all ages 68,998

here's some hard numbers, but still absent knowing how much of the country had been exposed thru 5/16/2020.
 
Last edited:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortality_due_to_COVID-19#Mortality_by_age

here's a good age chart on wiki broken down by age.

i prefer actual totals more than percentages, since percentages are dependent on testing numbers, but percentages is better than nothing.
---------------------------------------------------------------------



US covid death thru 5/16/2020 by age per CDC

under 1 yr old, 3 deaths
1- 4 yrs, 2
5-14 yrs 7
15-24 yrs 76
25-34 yrs 463
35-44 yrs 1,186
45-54 3,338
all ages 68,998

here's some hard numbers, but still absent knowing how much of the country had been exposed thru 5/16/2020.

Thats the conventional view on Covid19. The elderly and chronic.

However, it turns out that its a more complex virus compared other respiratory virus in how it manifests itself. Kawasaki Disease for example in kids with COVID is now another manifestation.

Another:
Does SARS-CoV-2 cause a vascular disease?
(granted its still in preprint)

Basic premise is that -19 might be a completely different disease to SARS/MERS, which primarily attack the airways in the lungs. It’s possible that this spares the airways but wrecks the tiny blood vessels that surround them. Which has big implications for treatment options.
 
Thats the conventional view on Covid19. The elderly and chronic.

However, it turns out that its a more complex virus compared other respiratory virus in how it manifests itself. Kawasaki Disease for example in kids with COVID is now another manifestation.

Another:
Does SARS-CoV-2 cause a vascular disease?
(granted its still in preprint)

Basic premise is that -19 might be a completely different disease to SARS/MERS, which primarily attack the airways in the lungs. It’s possible that this spares the airways but wrecks the tiny blood vessels that surround them. Which has big implications for treatment options.

Thank you for this info. Please keep posting stuff like this. It’s helpful- and devoid of politics. Which is exactly the way it should be when it comes to a pandemic of which we know very little about right now.

Science and FACT should always rule the day. Unfortunately, it has taken a back seat quite often.
 
Thank you for this info. Please keep posting stuff like this. It’s helpful- and devoid of politics. Which is exactly the way it should be when it comes to a pandemic of which we know very little about right now.

Science and FACT should always rule the day. Unfortunately, it has taken a back seat quite often.

I always like having as much info as possible. At some point, they coagulate and then we can have some clearer direction.
Its interesting stuff.
 
  • Like
Reactions: outside shooter
Thats the conventional view on Covid19. The elderly and chronic.

However, it turns out that its a more complex virus compared other respiratory virus in how it manifests itself. Kawasaki Disease for example in kids with COVID is now another manifestation.

Another:
Does SARS-CoV-2 cause a vascular disease?
(granted its still in preprint)

Basic premise is that -19 might be a completely different disease to SARS/MERS, which primarily attack the airways in the lungs. It’s possible that this spares the airways but wrecks the tiny blood vessels that surround them. Which has big implications for treatment options.

facts are facts. and facts matter.

easy to just point out the problems.

building a strategy other than wait for a lifeboat that hasn't yet been invented, let alone built, and zero reason to assume is doable in the next 10 yrs, is another.

we need a plan A strategy, and one that doesn't take the age thing into account is not a good strategy.

a vaccine or cure is still just as viable a plan B, and not hurt by a plan A in the mean time.

absent an age based strategy, Sweden, with no safety net anymore for anyone, will be forced upon us within a month.

letting the under 45 and wtf crowd build herd immunity and keep society and the economy as close to normal as possible, while the at risks not willing to roll the dice stay in lockdown with a govt safety net, is the best plan A i can come up with.

no, it's not perfect.

if you or wiede or anyone else have a better one, go for it.

i'd love a better one, but haven't seen one yet from anyone or any country yet.

have you?

if so, what is it?
 
Last edited:
I always like having as much info as possible. At some point, they coagulate and then we can have some clearer direction.
Its interesting stuff.

The NY Times has made everything COVID-19 related free to read. I believe a few other publications are doing the same thing. I appreciate that they do that- it’s the right thing to do.

I couldn’t agree more with you. I read all kinds of stuff that makes my blood boil- but I do it because you never know what may end up being true- and useful.

This virus is insidious as hell, and we still know very little about it. If you wanted to design something that’s going to hang around for a long time and play on some of our worst impulses, this is it.

I fear that “getting over it”, may not really happen for a LOT of people. Those that wish to downplay the severity of what’s going on aren’t seeing the big picture.

All the talk about economic damage cracks me up- it’s the same way of thinking as delaying tackling the issue of climate change. It’s “right now damnit!!!” vs long term. Obviously, the approach has backfired re: climate change.

I hope the same pattern won’t be true with the way we’re addressing this pandemic. We’re already going to be in bad shape re: medical costs with the huge “baby boomer” demographic getting older. What the hell do we think will happen when we throw a bunch of COVID-19 related outcomes on top of that reality?

And yes, I totally understand that the shutdown has been devastating for a great number of folks. I don’t take that truth lightly. However, the alternative will be much worse. We’re in charge of what happens next- and I fear that we’re going to blow it.

The point is this- the cost will be MUCH higher if we don’t do things the way we should. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Or something like that.

Would a short term UBI have been such a bad thing? It sure could’ve helped us get more ahead of this thing.
 
facts are facts.

easy to just point out the problems.

building a strategy other than wait for a lifeboat that hasn't yet been invented, let alone built, and zero reason to assume is doable in the next 10 yrs, is another.

we need a plan A strategy, and one that doesn't take the age thing into account is not a good strategy.

a vaccine or cure is still just as viable a plan B, and not hurt by a plan A in the meantime.

absent an age based strategy, Sweden, with no safety net anymore for anyone, will be forced upon us within a month.

letting the under 45 and wtf crowd build herd immunity and keep society and the economy as close to normal as possible, while the at risks not willing to roll the dice stay in lockdown with a govt safety net, is the best plan A i can come up with.

no, it's not perfect.

if you have a better one, go for it.

Herding the under 45s & the WTFs is not sustainable and politically untenable. As mentioned in my previous posts, there are new discovers/manifestations of Covid19 incl Kawasaki and that preprint paper.

It causes uncertainty which in turns will seep down into the economy and being a consumer-driven economy, confidence is critical.

Bottom line is that there isn't enough clear data due to the insufficient testings.

But I was saying back in Feb/March -- containment (test, track/trace, map and isolate.) But I think its a bit too late now. I am all out of ideas as the scale of things are way too big to now try and trace. Start small before escalating to nuclear options like shutdowns or now herd immunity.

It won't be good regardless.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wiede
Herding the under 45s & the WTFs is not sustainable and politically untenable. As mentioned in my previous posts, there are new discovers/manifestations of Covid19 incl Kawasaki and that preprint paper.

It causes uncertainty which in turns will seep down into the economy and being a consumer-driven economy, confidence is critical.

Bottom line is that there isn't enough clear data due to the insufficient testings.

But I was saying back in Feb/March -- containment (test, track/trace, map and isolate.) But I think its a bit too late now. I am all out of ideas as the scale of things are way too big to now try and trace. Start small before escalating to nuclear options like shutdowns or now herd immunity.

It won't be good regardless.

If only we had taken the Singapore/South Korea approach, right? I was on the same bandwagon that you’re on- still am. I do agree that we’ve dug the hope much deeper at this point. How deep is too deep?

I understand that the Singapore/S Korea approach would have to have been modified in the states. That’s a given. But we would be in a much better place right now had we followed their lead.

Instead, we had a leader who didn’t even really pay attention to the pandemic until it was far too late. And to make matters worse, he’s continuing to do the opposite of the things that can help. Let’s face it- something on this scale requires the massive reach and (at least partial) authority of the federal government. And we’ve got most probably the least competent CIC that we’ve ever had, at a time where we need competency.

if it weren’t so foreseeable, it wouldn’t be so GD frustrating. I’m not talking about the pandemic- although we could’ve prepared better for that as well.

I’m talking about the incompetency of this administration. We’re getting ready to reap the consequences of the choice a minority of the country made in 2016. It took a while, but we’re almost there. The guy couldn’t run his businesses competently, with a 400 million dollar head start. Then we (As a collective) go ahead and hand him the power of the federal government. What could go wrong? Short answer- a helluva lot.

I realize that I am being very tough on Trump and his team. It’s possible that even the most competent leader would’ve screwed up some things.

However, it’s almost as if Trump and his team have begun reading a choose your own adventure book- and every choice they make leads to the worst possible outcome.
 
The NY Times has made everything COVID-19 related free to read. I believe a few other publications are doing the same thing. I appreciate that they do that- it’s the right thing to do.

I couldn’t agree more with you. I read all kinds of stuff that makes my blood boil- but I do it because you never know what may end up being true- and useful.

This virus is insidious as hell, and we still know very little about it. If you wanted to design something that’s going to hang around for a long time and play on some of our worst impulses, this is it.

I fear that “getting over it”, may not really happen for a LOT of people. Those that wish to downplay the severity of what’s going on aren’t seeing the big picture.

All the talk about economic damage cracks me up- it’s the same way of thinking as delaying tackling the issue of climate change. It’s “right now damnit!!!” vs long term. Obviously, the approach has backfired re: climate change.

I hope the same pattern won’t be true with the way we’re addressing this pandemic. We’re already going to be in bad shape re: medical costs with the huge “baby boomer” demographic getting older. What the hell do we think will happen when we throw a bunch of COVID-19 related outcomes on top of that reality?

And yes, I totally understand that the shutdown has been devastating for a great number of folks. I don’t take that truth lightly. However, the alternative will be much worse. We’re in charge of what happens next- and I fear that we’re going to blow it.

The point is this- the cost will be MUCH higher if we don’t do things the way we should. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Or something like that.

Would a short term UBI have been such a bad thing? It sure could’ve helped us get more ahead of this thing.

If anything positive is to come out of this is that one has to relook at the whole system. This pandemic has just highlighted the basic weakness of the current economic model. Its a plutocracy first of all. acknowledgement of that and either acceptance or change needs to be there otherwise the same out populistic jingoism will just blind a large portion of the population.

There is has to be a change in the value system within the context of the society -- is money the determining factor of what is considered a 'success' in America? Why are banker wankers, lawyers etc paid so much more than nurses, teachers, and doctors? Its too mercantilistic a society for my taste. Not everything is measured in dollar & cents.

On a practical level, Universal healthcare needs to be addressed. I just don't see how there is an end game to this pandemic management. 80million folks who cannot afford to get tested or treated. What next?

One - a vaccine isn't a guaranteed thing. One in ten vaccines in Phase 1 ever gets into the market. Then the cost of that? Think Epi-Pen and you will see a very skewed distribution of the vaccines and once again, going back to the 1st point of being a plutocracy.

There are discussions within the intelligentsia here on the Singapore economic model. They are generally whingers here -- considering that out of the 30,000 cases here, 90% are migrant workers and has a total of 23 deaths since this thing started in January. But there is some discussion on what has made this country successful and yet the issue with the dependence on migrant workers has become an issue.
But nevertheless, there needs to change -- human relationship with the environment, the working from home will change the whole landscape on org structures, and as mentioned above -- value system.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Tacoll and wiede
If only we had taken the Singapore/South Korea approach, right? I was on the same bandwagon that you’re on- still am. I do agree that we’ve dug the hope much deeper at this point. How deep is too deep?

I understand that the Singapore/S Korea approach would have to have been modified in the states. That’s a given. But we would be in a much better place right now had we followed their lead.

Instead, we had a leader who didn’t even really pay attention to the pandemic until it was far too late. And to make matters worse, he’s continuing to do the opposite of the things that can help. Let’s face it- something on this scale requires the massive reach and (at least partial) authority of the federal government. And we’ve got most probably the least competent CIC that we’ve ever had, at a time where we need competency.

if it weren’t so foreseeable, it wouldn’t be so GD frustrating. I’m not talking about the pandemic- although we could’ve prepared better for that as well.

I’m talking about the incompetency of this administration. We’re getting ready to reap the consequences of the choice a minority of the country made in 2016. It took a while, but we’re almost there. The guy couldn’t run his businesses competently, with a 400 million dollar head start. Then we (As a collective) go ahead and hand him the power of the federal government. What could go wrong? Short answer- a helluva lot.

I realize that I am being very tough on Trump and his team. It’s possible that even the most competent leader would’ve screwed up some things.

However, it’s almost as if Trump and his team have begun reading a choose your own adventure book- and every choice they make leads to the worst possible outcome.

I think the obvious direction where is heading is one that nobody wants to think about -- thus, the prevalent ostrich in the sand approach of many.
What sad for me is that the various states are only now attempting the tracing approach. I saw with my own eyes here how they needed to scale the hell out of their tracing capability and they were struggling. All hand on deck.
I am not sure how you do it for 1.6million cases -- where they would have met 10 people per day and those 10 people... tech is one of them but all that fear of big brother etc will hinder that. It wont work in the 3rd world country -- was talking to a buddy in South Africa on this -- they only have like 35% of people on smart phones. So even if you wanted to light up the tracing app, how many can you affect?
The US on the other hand...
 
Herding the under 45s & the WTFs is not sustainable and politically untenable. As mentioned in my previous posts, there are new discovers/manifestations of Covid19 incl Kawasaki and that preprint paper.

It causes uncertainty which in turns will seep down into the economy and being a consumer-driven economy, confidence is critical.

Bottom line is that there isn't enough clear data due to the insufficient testings.

But I was saying back in Feb/March -- containment (test, track/trace, map and isolate.) But I think its a bit too late now. I am all out of ideas as the scale of things are way too big to now try and trace. Start small before escalating to nuclear options like shutdowns or now herd immunity.

It won't be good regardless.



no offense, but that's a giant load of sht. (uncharacteristic for you).

what's unsustainable and politically untenable in a capitalistic corporate controlled govt and Fox News, and 100% economically unsustainable anywhere, is thinking you can tread water forever while waiting for a miracle, for which there is no credible reason is coming for yrs, if ever.

and quarantining everyone in a bubble for yrs, still leaves the virus out there, and all forever quarantined with zero immunity.


my plan gives youngers, the roll the dice crowd, Wall St, Fox News, and the economy and small business, what they all want, while totally preserving what the "at risks" want and need at the same time.

and at least builds as much as possible towards some herd immunity in the meantime, for the willing..

what about that exactly is it that you don't like????????

how the hell is forever lock down, or forced Sweden with no more safety net for anyone, better or more politically doable, or better long term.

don't fight me just to be fighting me for the hell of it, unless you have a better and more politically and economically doable plan, that keeps the at risks as safe as possible.

you don't. nor does wiede or anyone else.

let me know when you do.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Tacoll and stollcpa
no offense, but that's a giant load of sht. (uncharacteristic for you).

what's unsustainable and politically untenable in a capitalistic corporate controlled govt and Fox News, is thinking you can tread water forever while waiting for a miracle, for which there is no credible reason is coming for yrs, if ever.

and quarantining everyone in a bubble for yrs, still leaves the virus out there, and all forever quarantined with zero immunity.


my plan gives youngers, the roll the dice crowd, Wall St, and Fox News, what they all want, while totally preserving what the "at risks" want and need at the same time.

and at least builds as much as possible towards some herd immunity in the meantime, for the willing..

what about that exactly is it that you don't like????????

how the hell is forever lock down, or forced Sweden with no more safety net for anyone, better or more politically doable, or better long term.

don't fight me just to be fighting me for the hell of it, unless you have a better and more politically and economically doable one, that keeps the at risks as safe as possible.

you don't. nor does wiede or anyone else.

let me know when you do.

Thats the point -- the scale where its at, I am not sure there is any real solution. Other countries have some semblance of a plan but the situation that the US finds itself, I am not so sure.

Ok, say with your approach -- lets put some meat to it.

How you would you start the operations in terms of an implementation plan? How would you segment the society out? How do you keep the plus 45s corralled in their homesteads? How do you compensate them for it? People currently at work over 45?

Its a consumer-driven society. Stick a large chunk of people into euphemistically put, 'homesteads' will plough it back into the 70s -- unless you create two separate economies and society? Apartheid?
 
Thats the point -- the scale where its at, I am not sure there is any real solution. Other countries have some semblance of a plan but the situation that the US finds itself, I am not so sure.

Ok, say with your approach -- lets put some meat to it.

How you would you start the operations in terms of an implementation plan? How would you segment the society out? How do you keep the plus 45s corralled in their homesteads? How do you compensate them for it? People currently at work over 45?

Its a consumer-driven society. Stick a large chunk of people into euphemistically put, 'homesteads' will plough it back into the 70s -- unless you create two separate economies and society? Apartheid?

no idea what you're talking about.

seems you're just trolling at this point, and no idea why.

my plan doesn't force anything on anyone, thus doesn't need me to corral anyone, or force anyone out of lockdown or leave them without a safety net.

everyone can choose the universe they wish and need, and switch at will as well.

that is the whole basis of my plan. DUH!

it acknowledges, accepts, and accommodates, our political and economic realities

it also acknowledges the realities of the two universes, (which you refuse to the death to acknowledge or take into account), and the health risks and mindsets of both, and doesn't force either universe into what's best or wanted from the other universe.

you refuse to offer a better plan, that's politically and economically doable, and gives both sides what they want and need, and doesn't force either side on the other.

you're just trolling at this point. (again uncharacteristic).

please don't respond again until you have a better plan to offer, that's politically and economically more doable than mine, still protects the at risks and the safety net, and doesn't force lockdown on the unwilling and un-needing who you can't control forever. (or even for another month).

until such time, i'll assume you accept my plan as the far best of the imperfect.
 
  • Like
Reactions: stollcpa
no idea what you're talking about.

seems you're just trolling at this point, and no idea why.

my plan doesn't force anything on anyone, thus doesn't need me to corral anyone, or force anyone out of lockdown or leave them without a safety net.

everyone can choose the universe they wish and need, and switch at will as well.

that is the whole basis of my plan. DUH!

it acknowledges, accepts, and accommodates, our political and economic realities

it also acknowledges the realities of the two universes, (which you refuse to the death to acknowledge or take into account), and the health risks and mindsets of both, and doesn't force either universe into what's best or wanted from the other universe.

you refuse to offer a better plan, that's politically and economically doable, and gives both sides what they want and need, and doesn't force either side on the other.

you're just trolling at this point. (again uncharacteristic).

please don't respond again until you have a better plan to offer, that's politically and economically more doable than mine, still protects the at risks and the safety net, and doesn't force lockdown on the unwilling and un-needing who you can't control forever. (or even for another month).

until such time, i'll assume you accept my plan as the far best of the imperfect.

Seems like more of the default reality we're left with rather than an actual plan. A plan would minimize the risks of exposure because there will inevitably be infections across groups. But the Administration seems intent to downplay any effort to control the risk of spreading the disease while restarting the economy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wiede
no offense, but that's a giant load of sht. (uncharacteristic for you).

what's unsustainable and politically untenable in a capitalistic corporate controlled govt and Fox News, and 100% economically unsustainable anywhere, is thinking you can tread water forever while waiting for a miracle, for which there is no credible reason is coming for yrs, if ever.

and quarantining everyone in a bubble for yrs, still leaves the virus out there, and all forever quarantined with zero immunity.


my plan gives youngers, the roll the dice crowd, Wall St, Fox News, and the economy and small business, what they all want, while totally preserving what the "at risks" want and need at the same time.

and at least builds as much as possible towards some herd immunity in the meantime, for the willing..

what about that exactly is it that you don't like????????

how the hell is forever lock down, or forced Sweden with no more safety net for anyone, better or more politically doable, or better long term.

don't fight me just to be fighting me for the hell of it, unless you have a better and more politically and economically doable plan, that keeps the at risks as safe as possible.

you don't. nor does wiede or anyone else.

let me know when you do.

No. That’s just flat out wrong re: my position.

I also agree with one of sf’s posts in this thread that says that we should re-imagine what we prioritize as a society.

Folks are hurting economically. Obviously. And that really, really sucks. I’ve been fortunate enough to work from home this entire time- and I hate it. It’s affected my business also- what I do is very much a face to face, in person business.

At the same time, I realize this this ain’t about me.

But we can and should do better. It’s times like right now that make you realize that the things you’ve railed against for as long as you’ve been on this board are unsustainable in the long term. Unless you want a huge permanent underclass that has no real ability to obtain the “American Dream”. The rules have been rigged against the vast majority of Americans, and instead of realizing that reality, many are stuck in an “us vs them” world view.

And after struggling through reading your sometimes rambling and poorly drafted posts, I think we agree on this point.

*** I will give you credit- they’ve gotten a little better. Still hard to read at times.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sglowrider
Seems like more of the default reality we're left with rather than an actual plan. A plan would minimize the risks of exposure because there will inevitably be infections across groups. But the Administration seems intent to downplay any effort to control the risk of spreading the disease while restarting the economy.

That’s not really a “plan”- it’s the absence of a plan. Which will lead to tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths.

Unfortunately, due to incompetence, this looks like our reality in the states moving forward. It didn’t have to be this way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sglowrider
I think barring any grand scheme and when any problems get too overwhelming which its is now, the key will be to break it down and chop it down into bitesize.

Maybe the bitesize solution is to develop all multiple regions and sub regions. Ensure that they have their infra in place to be able to meet the 2nd Wave with the simple objective of making sure that the regional hospital systems are working together ie for PPEs and to ensure travel only within that region?

Then get their containment strategy ramped up. Start again -- hopefully, there will be lessons learnt both by the healthcare authorities and the population within the region. Bypass the WH and roll out a comprehensive comms strategy ad one that is clear and unambiguous -- and that has some strange message for working together and a sacrifice fr the greater good. (They use the whole 'sacrifice' theme in the UK a bit.)

The US needs to leverage technology better -- it has an 81% smartphone penetration rate. Why not leverage that. The tracing apps need to incentivised or have better-developed motivation to use them.
 
No. That’s just flat out wrong re: my position.

I also agree with one of sf’s posts in this thread that says that we should re-imagine what we prioritize as a society.

Folks are hurting economically. Obviously. And that really, really sucks. I’ve been fortunate enough to work from home this entire time- and I hate it. It’s affected my business also- what I do is very much a face to face, in person business.

At the same time, I realize this this ain’t about me.

But we can and should do better. It’s times like right now that make you realize that the things you’ve railed against for as long as you’ve been on this board are unsustainable in the long term. Unless you want a huge permanent underclass that has no real ability to obtain the “American Dream”. The rules have been rigged against the vast majority of Americans, and instead of realizing that reality, many are stuck in an “us vs them” world view.

And after struggling through reading your sometimes rambling and poorly drafted posts, I think we agree on this point.

*** I will give you credit- they’ve gotten a little better. Still hard to read at times.

what have i ever railed against that you feel is unsustainable, and why?

and what in my plan laid out in this thread do you disagree with?
 
Last edited:
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT