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The problem is Republicans

Rockfish1

Hall of Famer
Sep 2, 2001
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Almost 80 percent of Republicans approve of Trump's appalling performance in Helsinki. This explains why elected Republicans are already falling in line:

As I wrote Tuesday, the main goal of Trump’s comments seemed to be to quiet friendly fire from the GOP. To do that, the president had to offer just the slightest cover to Republican leaders. Even if his denial wasn’t credible, it was at least a denial. If Trump’s would/wouldn’t excuse was cynical, it also proved effective, at least before a New York Times report Wednesday night revealed the president knew all along about Putin’s direct involvement in meddling.

“I’m glad he clarified his comments today,” Senator Rob Portman of Ohio said Tuesday afternoon on Fox News. “But I wish he had said it in front of President Putin and the world yesterday. I take him at his word. If he said he misspoke, absolutely.”

Senator Marco Rubio of Florida agreed.

“I’m just glad he clarified it,” he said. “I can’t read his intentions or what he meant to say at the time. Suffice it to say that for me as a policymaker, what really matters is what we do moving forward.”

Senator John Thune of South Dakota said, “Ahh, well, I mean I guess it’s probably the best we’re going to be able to get.” Give Thune credit for candor, or at least for a Kinsley gaffe: Intentionally or not, he made clear that the game was getting the best available walk-back and moving on.

. . . In the hours immediately after Trump’s press conference with Putin, pundits wondered whether this moment was different than the president’s previous meltdowns, and whether Republicans would truly turn on him this time.

The fact that leading Republicans signaled their willingness to accept Trump’s would/wouldn’t excuse should put that notion to rest. There will always be a few outspoken critics in the GOP—Jeff Flake, or, on occasion, Bob Corker—but this episode suggests that there may be no turning point when the president says something that’s simply too far for his allies in Congress to accept.
Yes, it's a big problem that Trump is a Russian stooge, but it's an even bigger problem that 90 percent of Republicans approve of the Russian stooge. The biggest national security threat to the United States may be Republicans.

emperors-new-clothes.jpg
 
Almost 80 percent of Republicans approve of Trump's appalling performance in Helsinki. This explains why elected Republicans are already falling in line:

As I wrote Tuesday, the main goal of Trump’s comments seemed to be to quiet friendly fire from the GOP. To do that, the president had to offer just the slightest cover to Republican leaders. Even if his denial wasn’t credible, it was at least a denial. If Trump’s would/wouldn’t excuse was cynical, it also proved effective, at least before a New York Times report Wednesday night revealed the president knew all along about Putin’s direct involvement in meddling.

“I’m glad he clarified his comments today,” Senator Rob Portman of Ohio said Tuesday afternoon on Fox News. “But I wish he had said it in front of President Putin and the world yesterday. I take him at his word. If he said he misspoke, absolutely.”

Senator Marco Rubio of Florida agreed.

“I’m just glad he clarified it,” he said. “I can’t read his intentions or what he meant to say at the time. Suffice it to say that for me as a policymaker, what really matters is what we do moving forward.”

Senator John Thune of South Dakota said, “Ahh, well, I mean I guess it’s probably the best we’re going to be able to get.” Give Thune credit for candor, or at least for a Kinsley gaffe: Intentionally or not, he made clear that the game was getting the best available walk-back and moving on.

. . . In the hours immediately after Trump’s press conference with Putin, pundits wondered whether this moment was different than the president’s previous meltdowns, and whether Republicans would truly turn on him this time.

The fact that leading Republicans signaled their willingness to accept Trump’s would/wouldn’t excuse should put that notion to rest. There will always be a few outspoken critics in the GOP—Jeff Flake, or, on occasion, Bob Corker—but this episode suggests that there may be no turning point when the president says something that’s simply too far for his allies in Congress to accept.
Yes, it's a big problem that Trump is a Russian stooge, but it's an even bigger problem that 90 percent of Republicans approve of the Russian stooge. The biggest national security threat to the United States may be Republicans.

emperors-new-clothes.jpg

The GOP has become a personality cult. I don't think there's anything more that needs to be said. If you oppose the leader, you will be banished. (voted out of office)
 
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It kind of reminds me of how people will overlook faults in a leader as long as they think he is winning-look at how venerated certain coaches are by their alumni even though you know and they have to know also he is cheating like crazy in order to win.
 
It's important to remember in these polls......The % that self-identify as Republicans is an important as anything. 80% of a shrinking base comes out to only about 20% of the country. (Only about 25% of the country now calls themselves Republicans)


http://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/397695-pollster-gop-base-is-shrinking
Fewer of them is bettter than more of them, but elected Republicans can’t win without them, so they have an outsized impact. The only way to reduce their malign influence is to vote Republicans out of office.
 
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It's important to remember in these polls......The % that self-identify as Republicans is an important as anything. 80% of a shrinking base comes out to only about 20% of the country. (Only about 25% of the country now calls themselves Republicans)


http://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/397695-pollster-gop-base-is-shrinking
If the numbers are overstated, why are Republican Congressmen reportedly in fear of getting primaried and unwilling to put any real check on the President?
 
If the numbers are overstated, why are Republican Congressmen reportedly in fear of getting primaried and unwilling to put any real check on the President?

Because if they don’t have the rabid Trump folks on their side, they can’t win re-election. It’s that simple. The party is increasingly becoming more and more pro-rabidly Trump as it shrinks.

Props to the lifelong pubs that have come out and said to vote dem this time, as a check on Trump (George Will, Steve Schmidt, Jim Comey). As well as those that have left the party (Joe Scarborough). These guys realize that the party is fast approaching the proverbial cliff. And they aren’t going to be on the train when it plunged over that cliff.
 
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Because if they don’t have the rabid Trump folks on their side, they can’t win re-election. It’s that simple. The party is increasingly becoming more and more pro-rabidly Trump as it shrinks.

Props to the lifelong pubs that have come out and said to vote dem this time, as a check on Trump (George Will, Steve Schmidt, Jim Comey). As well as those that have left the party (Joe Scarborough). These guys realize that the party is fast approaching the proverbial cliff. And they aren’t going to be on the train when it plunged over that cliff.
They can't win without "moderate" Republicans either and it appears they've correctly concluded that by just ducking the obvious they're not really at risk of losing the "moderates" either. To Rockfish's point, the rabid Trump supporters aren't really the problem. I don't see how you avoid the conclusion that it's Republicans generally. And regardless of whether the base (whatever that means at this point) has shrunk, it's not at all clear to me that there's been any meaningful reduction in party affiliation. I think I'd need to see evidence/projections of really meaningful shifts in the House and Senate to believe the poll numbers aren't really indicative.
 
Who do you think shows up for primaries? That's your answer...
To hear fearful Republican representatives tell the story, they're staving off the radicals who'd otherwise win the day. I think one needs to assess whether that's accurate or if Republican representatives are just worried about their jobs. If a "moderate" Republican lost the primary to a "radical", who'd win in the general election in, say, Arizona or Nevada or West Virginia?
 
To hear fearful Republican representatives tell the story, they're staving off the radicals who'd otherwise win the day. I think one needs to assess whether that's accurate or if Republican representatives are just worried about their jobs. If a "moderate" Republican lost the primary to a "radical", who'd win in the general election in, say, Arizona or Nevada or West Virginia?

The radical would probably lose in Nevada or Arizona. Might win in WV. The fearful republican won't win the primary. Look at Roy Moore. That's the radical.
 
You don’t really expect reasonable republicans to actually vote for a democrat if that’s what it takes, do you?

That was mostly tongue-in-cheek, but I constantly hear comments at work along the lines of “Trump is such a f*****g idiot...yadda yadda...and we’ll probably end up with another damn democrat”. I work with nothing but full on republicans...not even another person who identifies as independent, although I’ll never vote for another republican again, even for local office. Yep, all republicans, from the housekeepers on up to the docs. That rough quote to start this paragraph is what Fox “News” has accomplished. Pure hatred for anything not republican. They all even use their favorite new buzz word “socialism”.
The dems have their old buzz word “ Racist “ Dems are not going to win the house or senate back!
 
The dems have their old buzz word “ Racist “ Dems are not going to win the house or senate back!
Thus the anecdotal points that suggest things like BLM are critical influencers on the Republican electorate. Even moreso than Trump’s inexplicable relationship with a national security adversary.
 
They can't win without "moderate" Republicans either and it appears they've correctly concluded that by just ducking the obvious they're not really at risk of losing the "moderates" either. To Rockfish's point, the rabid Trump supporters aren't really the problem. I don't see how you avoid the conclusion that it's Republicans generally. And regardless of whether the base (whatever that means at this point) has shrunk, it's not at all clear to me that there's been any meaningful reduction in party affiliation. I think I'd need to see evidence/projections of really meaningful shifts in the House and Senate to believe the poll numbers aren't really indicative.

Why would we leave? Seriously, Trump is gone in 6 more years, max. The Democrats, when left with an opportunity to steal votes from the center have Obama out talking U.B.I. and are trying to make a rock star out of the Ocasio girl from New York (and she has been clowning herself lately).

At best for Democrats right now, enough people become irritated with Trump to sit out. You are not generally going to attract free market capitalists and libertarian leaning individuals with identity politics and socialism.
 
Thus the anecdotal points that suggest things like BLM are critical influencers on the Republican electorate. Even moreso than Trump’s inexplicable relationship with a national security adversary.
Obama, Goats Idol by the way, was in charge when the Russian are coming happened, why didn’t he stop the hacking?
 
Make fun,but that doesn’t change the fact that it happened under Obama’s watch!

If I was you, I would have gone with,

"Why didn't Clinton stop this while Al Gore was inventing the internet?"

So many more layers to peel back there. ;)
 
Make fun,but that doesn’t change the fact that it happened under Obama’s watch!
I think I heard Dan Coats say yesterday that the Russian interference began as long ago as 1980 or 1981 and has been ongoing since.
 
Obama, Goats Idol by the way, was in charge when the Russian are coming happened, why didn’t he stop the hacking?

He went to McConnell, because he knew without his support/public acknowledgement that the news would be viewed as him being partisan. And he was right.

Mitch told him that he absolutely wouldn’t support calling them out. And that was the end of it. Because literally everyone thought that Clifton would win, so it was viewed as a moot point.

In hindsight, I’m sure Obama would’ve done it differently.

When this is all said and done, McConnell is going to look really bad for not agreeing to back up Obama on the interference.
 
He went to McConnell, because he knew without his support/public acknowledgement that the news would be viewed as him being partisan. And he was right.

Mitch told him that he absolutely wouldn’t support calling them out. And that was the end of it. Because literally everyone thought that Clifton would win, so it was viewed as a moot point.

In hindsight, I’m sure Obama would’ve done it differently.

When this is all said and done, McConnell is going to look really bad for not agreeing to back up Obama on the interference.

LOL. What happened to the pen and the phone? Obama proudly claimed to have given McConnell and congress a "todo list". Obama never had a problem acting on his own when he wanted. He was just being Obama here. He was looking for cover and weaseling his way around about what we all know now was serious matter that happened on his watch. His public position was that this was no big deal and after all, he did tell Putin to "cut it out".
 
LOL. What happened to the pen and the phone? Obama proudly claimed to have given McConnell and congress a "todo list". Obama never had a problem acting on his own when he wanted. He was just being Obama here. He was looking for cover and weaseling his way around about what we all know now was serious matter that happened on his watch. His public position was that this was no big deal and after all, he did tell Putin to "cut it out".

But what about...
 
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Why would we leave? Seriously, Trump is gone in 6 more years, max. The Democrats, when left with an opportunity to steal votes from the center have Obama out talking U.B.I. and are trying to make a rock star out of the Ocasio girl from New York (and she has been clowning herself lately).

At best for Democrats right now, enough people become irritated with Trump to sit out. You are not generally going to attract free market capitalists and libertarian leaning individuals with identity politics and socialism.
While I think Ocasio is unfit for office, to talk about UBI like it’s the most ludicrous idea in the world is to have blinders on. UBI is coming no matter who controls the government. AI and automation will soon put an even larger swath of the populace out of work. What’s your solution? Homelessness?
 
While I think Ocasio is unfit for office, to talk about UBI like it’s the most ludicrous idea in the world is to have blinders on. UBI is coming no matter who controls the government. AI and automation will soon put an even larger swath of the populace out of work. What’s your solution? Homelessness?

I think UBI and AI will lead to dystopia, but I am a pessimist when it comes to humanity.
 
Now I get why we see the world so differently. I'm amazed by humanity's ongoing progress though incredible trials and tribulations.

Don't get me wrong, I think that most people do strive to be upstanding people. The problem is that just one mold spore can eventually ruin all of the fruit.

I view UBI and advanced AI as a march backwards by progressing forward. The majority of us will be serfs beholden to a group of elites. The ability to move into their caste will reduce to nil. And unlike in the past, with advanced A.I. they will not even have to hire some of us to keep the others in line. No, they will have a soulless, tireless, emotionless army to do their bidding.
 
While I think Ocasio is unfit for office, to talk about UBI like it’s the most ludicrous idea in the world is to have blinders on. UBI is coming no matter who controls the government. AI and automation will soon put an even larger swath of the populace out of work. What’s your solution? Homelessness?

UBI is reasonable. Federal jobs guarantee is not.
 
Wait, isn't that what we on the left have said about corporate America?:).

No joke, I believe if we get UBI and AI that will eventually become true. There will be a few mega corporations and the technocrats that they choose that will rule the planet. We will be nothing but consumers to them. They will be our "protectors" and we will depend on them for everything. It is a neo-serfdom. That is middle case scenario. Best case, we end up like the humans in Wall-E. Worst case, warlord like governments with robots fighting for resources and us stuck in between.
 
UBI is reasonable. Federal jobs guarantee is not.
I think your second clause is in regards to Ocasio’s platform. Let’s just say I’ve been less than impressed in the clips I’ve seen where she’s tried to go more than inch deep on any of her platform positions. I don’t think she’s ready.
 
I think your second clause is in regards to Ocasio’s platform. Let’s just say I’ve been less than impressed in the clips I’ve seen where she’s tried to go more than inch deep on any of her platform positions. I don’t think she’s ready.

Yes, it's been cringe worthy to put it mildly, not that I would perform better.
 
Understatement of the year. Outside of her politics, she is in her 20's and it really shows.
Her age isn’t the whole story. She’s clearly parroting left wing talking points without understanding them. Many an intelligent 20-something can and has done better.
 
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He was taking law classes instead of computer science classes?
Make fun,but that doesn’t change the fact that it happened under Obama’s watch!
Oh come on, the wheels of justice doesn’t move at lightning speed. The charges that were brought up last Friday stemmed from the initial FBI investigations in 2016. Therefore, Obama’s FBI did do something about it. It just takes time to get enough evidence to bring formal charges.

Are you going to say that Trump was the one capturing these Russian hackers? LOL!!
 
I think your second clause is in regards to Ocasio’s platform. Let’s just say I’ve been less than impressed in the clips I’ve seen where she’s tried to go more than inch deep on any of her platform positions. I don’t think she’s ready.
Ready for what?
 
Make fun,but that doesn’t change the fact that it happened under Obama’s watch!

What could he have done, he was so lame duck the Senate stopped letting him nominate people several months before. The nature of hacking is that one tends to find out they have been hacked well after the hack occurs. By the time anyone really knew what was going on, we were deep into the campaign season. If Obama had come out blaming Russia and announcing massive sanctions, the people now criticizing Obama would have said he was just throwing the election for Clinton.
 
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