The pro-segregation, anti-abortion nexus

[cosmickid]

Ali Velshi lays it out pretty definitively in this commentary. You're welcome to disagree, but the evidence is pretty strong for his argument. Not only is the link between the Religious Right's overriding anti segregation and anti-abortion stances pretty blatant, but he also points out that Roe vs Wade was not even a very galvanizing ruling for the Right, until probably a 1/2 decade or so later...

The BIG issue for the Right from the start was Brown vs Board of Education- rendered in 1954,the year before I was born. Falwell, Liberty U, Bork... he lays out all the damning evidence that Segregation was the real boogeyman, and it was only when they realized that they were not going to gain traction (and political power) on that issue with any semblance of a majority of the population that they fell into line and chose abortion as their political sword. Obviously, the "moral majority"...not particularly moral, and never really close to a majority, has never really believed in individual freedom for everyone...

 

[IUCrazy2]

Ali Velshi lays it out pretty definitively in this commentary. You're welcome to disagree, but the evidence is pretty strong for his argument. Not only is the link between the Religious Right's overriding anti segregation and anti-abortion stances pretty blatant, but he also points out that Roe vs Wade was not even a very galvanizing ruling for the Right, until probably a 1/2 decade or so later...

The BIG issue for the Right from the start was Brown vs Board of Education- rendered in 1954,the year before I was born. Falwell, Liberty U, Bork... he lays out all the damning evidence that Segregation was the real boogeyman, and it was only when they realized that they were not going to gain traction (and political power) on that issue with any semblance of a majority of the population that they fell into line and chose abortion as their political sword. Obviously, the "moral majority"...not particularly moral, and never really close to a majority, has never really believed in individual freedom for everyone...

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You all have one brush. You use that brush for all jobs.

 

[mcmurtry66]

You all have one brush. You use that brush for all jobs.

MSNBC. The paint store

 

[IUCrazy2]

MSNBC. The paint store

Abortions have a disparate impact on minorities and the poor. If the anti-abortion movement had racist tendencies, boy did they grab onto the wrong thing to be against.

Hell, with this dumb ass logic, I should be a pro-abortion, woke AF individual. The woke crowd wants set asides and special places for minorities and abortion kills more blacks a year than the a devoted racist could ever hope for.

My position makes no sense politically, because it is a moral position. Every one of those children, o matter their color or if they may vote against my politics in 18 years, deserves a life.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Abortions have a disparate impact on minorities and the poor. If the anti-abortion movement had racist tendencies, boy did they grab onto the wrong thing to be against.

Hell, with this dumb ass logic, I should be a pro-abortion, woke AF individual. The woke crowd wants set asides and special places for minorities and abortion kills more blacks a year than the a devoted racist could ever hope for.

My position makes no sense politically, because it is a moral position. Every one of those children, o matter their color or if they may vote against my politics in 18 years, deserves a life.

It's a pretzel for sure

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

Anyone that supported trump but still claims to have morals is hilarious.

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

Ali Velshi lays it out pretty definitively in this commentary. You're welcome to disagree, but the evidence is pretty strong for his argument. Not only is the link between the Religious Right's overriding anti segregation and anti-abortion stances pretty blatant, but he also points out that Roe vs Wade was not even a very galvanizing ruling for the Right, until probably a 1/2 decade or so later...

The BIG issue for the Right from the start was Brown vs Board of Education- rendered in 1954,the year before I was born. Falwell, Liberty U, Bork... he lays out all the damning evidence that Segregation was the real boogeyman, and it was only when they realized that they were not going to gain traction (and political power) on that issue with any semblance of a majority of the population that they fell into line and chose abortion as their political sword. Obviously, the "moral majority"...not particularly moral, and never really close to a majority, has never really believed in individual freedom for everyone...

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Interesting video and not surprising.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

It’s ALWAYS racism with Cosmic. 😂

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

Abortions have a disparate impact on minorities and the poor. If the anti-abortion movement had racist tendencies, boy did they grab onto the wrong thing to be against.

Hell, with this dumb ass logic, I should be a pro-abortion, woke AF individual. The woke crowd wants set asides and special places for minorities and abortion kills more blacks a year than the a devoted racist could ever hope for.

My position makes no sense politically, because it is a moral position. Every one of those children, o matter their color or if they may vote against my politics in 18 years, deserves a life.

Cosmic has one card, which he plays continuously. What you posted is obvious to everyone who doesn’t have a narrative to push.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

Abortions have a disparate impact on minorities and the poor. If the anti-abortion movement had racist tendencies, boy did they grab onto the wrong thing to be against.

Hell, with this dumb ass logic, I should be a pro-abortion, woke AF individual. The woke crowd wants set asides and special places for minorities and abortion kills more blacks a year than the a devoted racist could ever hope for.

My position makes no sense politically, because it is a moral position. Every one of those children, o matter their color or if they may vote against my politics in 18 years, deserves a life.

If you are a conservative, should the government be digging around in women's panties? There is more than one right in the debate.

 

[outside shooter]

The medical expenses of childbirth and baby-rearing also have a disparate impact on the poor and the uninsured. The pro-life position would be more appealing if it were not limited to being pro-in-utero-life.

 

[anon_mya1phvcpf5x4]

The medical expenses of childbirth and baby-rearing also have a disparate impact on the poor and the uninsured. The pro-life position would be more appealing if it were not limited to being pro-in-utero-life.

Pro-Life sounds so much better than Pro-Birth.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

The medical expenses of childbirth and baby-rearing also have a disparate impact on the poor and the uninsured. The pro-life position would be more appealing if it were not limited to being pro-in-utero-life.

If conservative or "pro-lifers" actually gave a crap about lives after birth, then America would look like Europe. Lack of finances is the main reason women get abortions. It doesn't take 50 years of trying to get Roe overturned to stop abortions, it just takes giving a crap about people after they are born.

 

[iuwclurker]

You all have one brush. You use that brush for all jobs.

You have one brush which you use for all posts, posters, and people you disagree with.

 

[iuwclurker]

Ali Velshi lays it out pretty definitively in this commentary. You're welcome to disagree, but the evidence is pretty strong for his argument. Not only is the link between the Religious Right's overriding anti segregation and anti-abortion stances pretty blatant, but he also points out that Roe vs Wade was not even a very galvanizing ruling for the Right, until probably a 1/2 decade or so later...

The BIG issue for the Right from the start was Brown vs Board of Education- rendered in 1954,the year before I was born. Falwell, Liberty U, Bork... he lays out all the damning evidence that Segregation was the real boogeyman, and it was only when they realized that they were not going to gain traction (and political power) on that issue with any semblance of a majority of the population that they fell into line and chose abortion as their political sword. Obviously, the "moral majority"...not particularly moral, and never really close to a majority, has never really believed in individual freedom for everyone...

View embedded media

I argue the hatred for abortion primarily gets its political traction from the lie that liberals love abortion. Liberals do not love abortion but they sure as hell campaign as if they do. Liberals ignorantly think this is a good campaign issue. It’s not. Liberals need to disassociate themselves from the lie that they love abortion.

 

[outside shooter]

 

[Univee2]

MSNBC. The paint store

And Ali Velshi? Good grief. A HOF nutcase.

 

[Crayfish57]

Anyone that supported trump but still claims to have morals is hilarious.

Anyone that voted for Biden but still claims to have a brain is hilarious.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I don't understand this. I live in a state with a Republican gov. We have Medicaid, snap, hud, free school. What are you talking about? Speaking as the conservative you are, of course.

 

[IUCrazy2]

If you are a conservative, should the government be digging around in women's panties?

1. The government isn't digging around in women's panties.

2. You are conflating conservativism and libertarianism. They are not the same although they do overlap in some areas.

The medical expenses of childbirth and baby-rearing also have a disparate impact on the poor and the uninsured. The pro-life position would be more appealing if it were not limited to being pro-in-utero-life.

"Give me the money or I kill the kid...." Completely ignores the multitude of ways to not get pregnant. There are 5 approaches to pregnancy:

1. Abstinence
2. Contraceptives
3. Parenthood.
4. Adoption, giving the child up
5. Abortion

Only one of those involves a loss of a human life (whether you label it "potential" or otherwise). All we want to do is take that one item off the menu in all but the most extreme circumstances. If you know you have a money issue, you should be looking at ordering 1, 2, or 4.

 

[outside shooter]

I don't understand this. I live in a state with a Republican gov. We have Medicaid, snap, hud, free school. What are you talking about?

I'm talking, in part, about the economics of childbirth in the USA. That is a major driver of abortions

The U.S. Is The World’s Most Expensive Nation For Childbirth [Infographic]

Even though estimates of the cost of childbirth in the United States vary considerably, there is no doubt that Americans have to endure the highest childbirth costs on the planet with bills frequently adding up to tens of thousands of dollars.

www.forbes.com

 

[IUCrazy2]

If conservative or "pro-lifers" actually gave a crap about lives after birth, then America would look like Europe. Lack of finances is the main reason women get abortions. It doesn't take 50 years of trying to get Roe overturned to stop abortions, it just takes giving a crap about people after they are born.

We have programs to take care of children whose mothers do not have means to do so. As McM already pointed out, healthcare? There is Medicaid. Feeding? SNAP. Free school. Free breakfast and lunches in school. EITC. Childcare tax credits. Child tax credits. Housing assistance. What more do you want? Paid maternity leave? OK. None of the problems listed above go away with that. Health assistance is there. Help feeding is there. Help with housing is there. All of these things already available and the answer is, "Not exactly what I want...so the child must die."

You guys can keep bringing this line of argument up and I will keep pointing out that this is nothing more than a hostage negotiation.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I'm talking, in part, about the economics of childbirth in the USA. That is a major driver of abortions

The U.S. Is The World’s Most Expensive Nation For Childbirth [Infographic]

Even though estimates of the cost of childbirth in the United States vary considerably, there is no doubt that Americans have to endure the highest childbirth costs on the planet with bills frequently adding up to tens of thousands of dollars.

www.forbes.com

That's not what the poster was

 

[IUCrazy2]

That's not what the poster was

The people we would be discussing never end up paying that cost anyway so it could be $1 million and for the sake of this conversation would not matter.

Just do the math on people who don't abort. You think the economically challenged wome who decide to keep their 3 or 4 children paid $33,000 to $60,000 to have them?

Again, this is just the hostage argument. I am the bad person for saying don't kill the baby. If I want the baby to live, I have to make sure that a middle class lifestyle is guaranteed for every mother and child in the country. And what defines a middle class lifestyle is completely defined by the hostage taker. Absent from the conversation are options 1, 2, and 4 I listed above. They believe that 3 and 5 are it and if 5 is off the table, 3 must be funded to their liking (which is beyond the funding that is already set aside).

Basically you made the money drop and they said they changed their mind. They need another hundred grand or the kid gets it see.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Finally, let's do the pro-abortion racism nexus. Start with Margaret Sanger and then do the argument in Freakonomics (which is basically where most people here are coming from). There is a very real vein of "eliminate the undesirables" that runs through the pro-choice movement.

 

[GuyDatHoo]

The medical expenses of childbirth and baby-rearing also have a disparate impact on the poor and the uninsured. The pro-life position would be more appealing if it were not limited to being pro-in-utero-life.

If you don’t pay for universal healthcare, universal child care, paid family leave, NSLP, TANF, SNAP, Head Start, UBI, my rent, and a vacation to Cabo then we get to kill this baby.

Quite a hostage situation you’ve designed there. Fund everything on the Democratic wish list, or the baby dies.

Do you threaten to kill seniors when Republicans talk about restructuring social security as well?

Democrats get so mad about a potential R v W overturn because it shatters their fundamental world view, which is, I don’t deserve to bear the consequences for my actions.

 

[outside shooter]

If you you don’t pay for universal healthcare, universal child care, paid family leave, UBI, my rent, and a vacation to Cabo then we get to kill this baby.

No, just provide support befitting that of a developed country. We're not Haiti. Nowhere else in the world are you faced with getting a second mortgage or selling off your assets/home to pay off the bills from a preemie birth. I have seen people have a preemie who needed to in intensive care for weeks and their bill was tens of thousands of dollars, even with so-called "great insurance".

 

[GuyDatHoo]

No, just provide support befitting that of a developed country. We're not Haiti. Nowhere else in the world are you faced with getting a second mortgage or selling off your assets/home to pay off the bills from a preemie birth. I have seen people have a preemie who needed to in intensive care for weeks and their bill was tens of thousands of dollars, even with so-called "great insurance".

So your point stands, preemies can be expensive, let’s kill them.

 

[ribbont]

The medical expenses of childbirth and baby-rearing also have a disparate impact on the poor and the uninsured. The pro-life position would be more appealing if it were not limited to being pro-in-utero-life.

You are stuck on this falsehood and have posted it in other threads. No one on this board has advocated to let the mother and child fend for themselves. Do you have some proof of your disinformation? Where's the czar when you need her?!

 

[outside shooter]

So your point stands, preemies can be expensive, let’s kill them.

Dumb, even for you. Almost, dare we say... DANC dumb.

Fairly routine health care that people get all over the world BANKRUPTS many Americans and (yes) contributes to a higher abortion rate. If you want few abortions, have first-world health care, better educate women, expand access to birth control, and be pro-life rather than just pro-embryo.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

We have programs to take care of children whose mothers do not have means to do so. As McM already pointed out, healthcare? There is Medicaid. Feeding? SNAP. Free school. Free breakfast and lunches in school. EITC. Childcare tax credits. Child tax credits. Housing assistance. What more do you want? Paid maternity leave? OK. None of the problems listed above go away with that. Health assistance is there. Help feeding is there. Help with housing is there. All of these things already available and the answer is, "Not exactly what I want...so the child must die."

You guys can keep bringing this line of argument up and I will keep pointing out that this is nothing more than a hostage negotiation.

No, the point is a strategy of better social programs and jobs for people would address the financial component of breeding and reduce abortion way more than throwing out Roe v. Wade. The financial component will always be there, whether Roe v. Wade is on the books or not.

I'm good with the compromise that is Roe v. Wade, as are most Americans. I'm not holding anybody hostage.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

1. The government isn't digging around in women's panties.

They basically are. They are making a female's vagina their business, and vaginas tend to be private. Last time I checked, I can't go around digging in a woman's pants without their consent: why should the government be able to?

You ignore the right to privacy, specifically, the right to a woman's privacy of her vagina and reproductive system. I doubt you walk around with no pants on or keep the door open in public while you use the bathroom.

 

[Crayfish57]

I'm talking, in part, about the economics of childbirth in the USA. That is a major driver of abortions

The U.S. Is The World’s Most Expensive Nation For Childbirth [Infographic]

Even though estimates of the cost of childbirth in the United States vary considerably, there is no doubt that Americans have to endure the highest childbirth costs on the planet with bills frequently adding up to tens of thousands of dollars.

www.forbes.com

So you are saying it is a monetary issue? So if we go by that, it opens up all kinds of things. What if a kid becomes too expensive when it is 6? Or it costs me too much to live so I can go steal from someone else?

It is way too much, I have seen random internet postings of old bills and in the 50's is under 100 to a couple hundred , lots of times doctor came to the home . Midwives are an option.

 

[mcmurtry66]

No, the point is a strategy of better social programs and jobs for people would address the financial component of breeding and reduce abortion way more than throwing out Roe v. Wade. The financial component will always be there, whether Roe v. Wade is on the books or not.

I'm good with the compromise that is Roe v. Wade, as are most Americans. I'm not holding anybody hostage.

I'm good with Roe too. Not as a legal question but just life compromise. Your social program bit has been a question of why isn't this working better for 90 years

 

[Spartans9312]

We have programs to take care of children whose mothers do not have means to do so. As McM already pointed out, healthcare? There is Medicaid. Feeding? SNAP. Free school. Free breakfast and lunches in school. EITC. Childcare tax credits. Child tax credits. Housing assistance. What more do you want? Paid maternity leave? OK. None of the problems listed above go away with that. Health assistance is there. Help feeding is there. Help with housing is there. All of these things already available and the answer is, "Not exactly what I want...so the child must die."

You guys can keep bringing this line of argument up and I will keep pointing out that this is nothing more than a hostage negotiation.

Can we eliminate all those things and keep Roe in place?
That would be a compromise

 

[Crayfish57]

Dumb, even for you. Almost, dare we say... DANC dumb.

Fairly routine health care that people get all over the world BANKRUPTS many Americans and (yes) contributes to a higher abortion rate. If you want few abortions, have first-world health care, better educate women, expand access to birth control, and be pro-life rather than just pro-embryo.

Lets look at the causes. Just local to me , I have watched a healthcare facility maybe 15 yrs old get demolished to put in a new Health facility that looks like something from mars . Just down the same rd there is another health facility, then a block away a new in 15 yrs building was demolished to guess what ? Put in a new health care facility. Not very far away , guess what another health care facility! I'm leaving out the occupational ones in between. I just have to start wondering as someone that needs a major injury to attend one of these................and not counting actual hospitals...............do people go to get there ass wiped or just what is wrong with so many people that we need so many of these facilities? My grandma passed at 90 , east central Indiana in a local hospital. She died because she was 90! They took care of her, family actually got a refund on bills. Since been taken over by Parkview. No one her included was prolonging life a very finite amount of time in a hospital and the cost of it. She passed peacefully on her own terms. Some people will spend thousands upon thousands of insurance money to extend a life for a few months when the time has come.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

I don't understand this. I live in a state with a Republican gov. We have Medicaid, snap, hud, free school. What are you talking about? Speaking as the conservative you are, of course.

The cartoon is a pretty simplistic shot, but it does touch on an important point. For decades, the anti-abortion movement* has been almost entirely invested in making abortion illegal. They haven't put any effort into making abortion less attractive. The end result of this will necessarily be a huge increase in births among, especially, the poor, the rural, the minorities, in red states. Precisely the people who might need some assistance raising those kids.

* Or, at least the Protestant evangelical-driven movement. Catholics have taken a more multi-pronged attack.

 

[mcmurtry66]

The cartoon is a pretty simplistic shot, but it does touch on an important point. For decades, the anti-abortion movement* has been almost entirely invested in making abortion illegal. They haven't put any effort into making abortion less attractive. The end result of this will necessarily be a huge increase in births among, especially, the poor, the rural, the minorities, in red states. Precisely the people who might need some assistance raising those kids.

* Or, at least the Protestant evangelical-driven movement. Catholics have taken a more multi-pronged attack.

Or a huge increase in plan B sales

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Or a huge increase in plan B sales

Not likely in most of the states where this will matter.

Edit: Not sure your brain went there, yet, but that brings up another issue. If we truly believe (do we?) that this will be limited to abortion and not open the door to outlaw contraception, the courts will still need to rule on the line between the two.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Not likely in most of the states where this will matter.

Edit: Not sure your brain went there, yet, but that brings up another issue. If we truly believe (do we?) that this will be limited to abortion and not open the door to outlaw contraception, the courts will still need to rule on the line between the two.

I'm celebrating cinco de mayo. It didn't go there. And you're absolutely right. Yuck