The "Perfect New B10 Alignment?"

[Bowlmania]

IU had zero, repeat zero, leverage when it came to football division alignments. Fred used all the pull we might have had to lock in the IU/PU game annually. It's the only protected cross-divisional game in the conference.

His letter to you was, of course, boilerplate.

If you're talking about locking in Purdue as an opponent, of course it's boilerplate.

Lol.

 

[td75]

Indiana doesn't have much leverage at all in this conference. Their basketball leverage has quickly eroded over the last 20+ years. Of course they've never had any football leverage and can't even get a fair whistle at home!!!

 

[newIUfan]

The divisions are fine, time changes things and as for now the tougher division is an advantage to IU. No school wants to be in a weak conference or division.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Indiana doesn't have much leverage at all in this conference. Their basketball leverage has quickly eroded over the last 20+ years. Of course they've never had any football leverage and can't even get a fair whistle at home!!!

the more schools in the conference, the less leverage IU has.

not just in the percentage weight it's vote has, (a 30% drop in voting power since there were only 10), but in oversized conferences the commissioner becomes more powerful as well.

and 30% less opportunity for our women and non revenue men to be on BTN.

expansion has cost IU significantly both in sovereignty/political power and exposure, (it's math. it's not a subjective opinion), and it's really not gotten anything of value in return..

one could even credibly argue it's lost value in scheduling as well, both in bball and fball.

decent chance that diluting the shares 30% has cost IU money as well, since the league was a national entity with a national revenue base already.

there is zero proof that expansion has helped per school revenues, and a just as strong or stronger case could be made that it's hurt revenues.

and don't confuse revenue gains from new contracts and more revenue streams, necessarily as gains from expansion.

 

[009rdarby]

neither you nor anyone else, including Delany, can prove expansion generated so much as 1 extra dollar in tv revenue.

in fact, prior to adding RU and UMd, the league released BTN revenues for the past yr, every yr, to tout the increased amount BTN made that yr.

that no longer continued after RU and UMd were added, highly suggesting they weren't a per school BTN revenue booster for the league, as had they been, the league would have bragged about it publically, as they always had in the past.

the B10 does still release total payout per school, but no longer breaks down the BTN portion. (which were always much less than the tier 1,2 portions).

the increased revenue this past yr or 2, was due to the expiration of the old tier 1,2 contracts, and the signing of new ones (involving Fox as well in tier 1 and 2 for the 1st time), which always brings a huge jump in revenues, not only for the B10, but all major conferences and all major sports.

there is zero evidence that expansion was responsible for any per school gains, and again, not even Delany could prove or even knows their impact on the new tier 1,2 contracts. (he only knows the immediately before and after of BTN revenues for the RU and UMd geographical areas, and his sudden silence there does not point to hoped for gains).

the only way to know the tier 1,2 impacts, (which are league wide rather than broken down by geographic area like BTN revenues), would be for an alternate universe to also exist in which there was no expansion, and compare the revenues per school of the 2 different universes. (one with expansion. one without).

think of selling a house you bought 15 yrs ago, in a market where selling prices have gone up mostly between 75-85% over that time for homes in the area, with some going up more than others.

1 yr before selling, you did new tile in the tub/shower surround of one of the existing baths.

you then sell the house for 80% more than you originally paid 15 yrs ago.

how much of the increased selling price was due to increased market value of the specific home over the 15 yrs, and how much was due to the new tile in the surround.

absolutely zero way for anyone, including the owner and the RE agents involved, to ever know.

Your reasoning is very unsound. There are many factors to account for the obviously increased financial support for the B1G athletic programs! But that everyone is much better off is unassailable! That the B1G is substantially ahead of the SEC and every other conference is likewise unassailable! You have no point!

 

[009rdarby]

How about we move Michigan State to the West and purdue to the East...

No, move MSU to the West and NW to the East!

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Your reasoning is very unsound. There are many factors to account for the obviously increased financial support for the B1G athletic programs! But that everyone is much better off is unassailable! That the B1G is substantially ahead of the SEC and every other conference is likewise unassailable! You have no point!

nice try.

there aren't many factors. there is basically one.

my reason was exact, which is why instead of pointing out why i was wrong, you instead tried to change the subject.

the dynamics of the pay industry, and now internet as well, are virtually solely responsible for the meteoric rise in media money over the last couple decades.

the most recent jump was driven by the expiration of the previous tier 1,2 contracts, and the signing of new ones for those rights.

such new contracts have always driven big jumps in revenues.

this has held true for all major conferences and all major sports leagues, pro and college.

baring negative changes in the dynamics, if the SEC signs it's next top tier contracts before us, they will very likely leapfrog us till we sign our next.

as for all members of the B10 being better off financially today, nobody is disputing that.

only the "why".

it wasn't Delany. it wasn't expansion. it was the pay tv/internet dynamics and the recent contracts with distributors.

 

[dillonpgp]

When Jim Delaney negotiated the last contract (effective 9/1/17, he made the contract 6 years (instead of the previous ten) so it expires one year before the SEC’s current deal expires.

Big Ten deal expires beginning with the 2023 football season).

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

No, move MSU to the West and NW to the East!

NW has beaten MSU 3 years in a row. How does this solve your competitive balance issue?

 

[Hoosiers Rising]

Rutgers to the West and Wisconsin to the East.

 

[IUPaterade724]

Why not put IU in the west and Purdue in the east? The biggest issue I have heard IU fans repeatedly reference is the strength of the east division versus the west division, and how that has been an advantage for Purdue.

Wouldn't playing UW, Iowa, Nebraska, Illinois, Northwestern, and Minnesota be easier, and provide IU with a better chance of winning more conference games?

This is what we really want

 

[ufo33]

Ohio State Michigan
Wisconsin Penn State
Nebraska. Michigan State
Iowa. Northwestern
Minnesota Purdue
Indiana. Maryland
Rutgers Illinois

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

I think the B10 should be aligned as closely to an East/West alignment as possible. With 14 teams, a natural 2 conference, 7 teams per makes sense as well. It really wouldn't take that much of a tweak.

Would it look something like this:

East / West

Ohio State Michigan
Penn State Wisconsin
Michigan State Nebraska
Purdue Iowa
Indiana Northwestern
Maryland Minnesota
Rutgers Illinois

Basically trading Michigan for Purdue (and having one MI school be in the "West") would seem more balanced. At that point, teams will rise and fall, but can't really overly complain if that change happened, as ultimately you have to be able to beat good teams to win in the B10.

Thoughts?

Jim Delany sucks. 3.5 NCAA Championships in football, basketball, and baseball as a Conference in 30 years. Can't get out as commish soon enough.

 

[trailrunner]

Go back to the original Big Ten and throw the rest out!!!!!

University of Chicago?

 

[009rdarby]

nice try.

there aren't many factors. there is basically one.

my reason was exact, which is why instead of pointing out why i was wrong, you instead tried to change the subject.

the dynamics of the pay industry, and now internet as well, are virtually solely responsible for the meteoric rise in media money over the last couple decades.

the most recent jump was driven by the expiration of the previous tier 1,2 contracts, and the signing of new ones for those rights.

such new contracts have always driven big jumps in revenues.

this has held true for all major conferences and all major sports leagues, pro and college.

baring negative changes in the dynamics, if the SEC signs it's next top tier contracts before us, they will very likely leapfrog us till we sign our next.

as for all members of the B10 being better off financially today, nobody is disputing that.

only the "why".

it wasn't Delany. it wasn't expansion. it was the pay tv/internet dynamics and the recent contracts with distributors.

Ok so you admit that I am correct. Only in a hypothetical future, where the numbers change, in your direction, could the SEC, which is the stronger football conference, approach the B1G in terms of revenue.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Ok so you admit that I am correct. Only in a hypothetical future, where the numbers change, in your direction, could the SEC, which is the stronger football conference, approach the B1G in terms of revenue.

A) you were wrong, which i pointed out and why.

B) everything in the future is hypothetical.

 

[009rdarby]

A) you were wrong, which i pointed out and why.

B) everything in the future is hypothetical.

Not so! Your only “reason” is B: a future hypothetical.

 

[coachv jr]

Only problem is that OSU UM would have to be a protected rival. Then if both won their divisions, would have to play again in the B1G championship game.

I would prefer non directional divisions. Perhaps an inside/outside.

OSU Wisconsin
UM Minnesota
MSU PSU
Indiana Nebraska
Purdue Iowa
Illinois Rutgers
Northwestern Maryland

2 Bluebloods, one cupcake, 4 middle class, in each division.

outside of penn st, who is the other blue blood in their division?

 

[coachv jr]

I actually think no conf, top two and play more teams more often would be fine too! Consider my idea if for whatever reason two conferences must remain.

yes. get rid of the conference altogether. think you are on to something

 

[coachv jr]

Why not put IU in the west and Purdue in the east? The biggest issue I have heard IU fans repeatedly reference is the strength of the east division versus the west division, and how that has been an advantage for Purdue.

Wouldn't playing UW, Iowa, Nebraska, Illinois, Northwestern, and Minnesota be easier, and provide IU with a better chance of winning more conference games?

of course it would help iu but why would it happen?

 

[coachv jr]

Although I am a fan of a theoretical conference contraction back to a true BigTEN conference, practicality would dictate this would never happen. There was too much money to made by the BTN when it added the New York market held by Rutgers and MD. Even Nebraska brings in a million TV sets as the Huskers are the only show in the state for any sport. They sold out their 90k seat stadium for the spring game, for crying out loud.

Can Indiana stomach the loss of $10 to $20 million in ANNUAL revenues from those markets for the sake of a more favorable football schedule? I don't think any school, even Indiana would be in favor of that.

nebraska sold out 90k for the spring game? damn. the sleeping giant is about to awaken perhaps

 

[IUCX9]

outside of penn st, who is the other blue blood in their division?

Nebraska has a national championship and perennially recruits in top 15-20. I'm calling them a blue blood.

 

[IUCX9]

nebraska sold out 90k for the spring game? damn. the sleeping giant is about to awaken perhaps

Also has the longest sellout streak in the nation by far. 360 some games dating back to 1962. Blue. Blood.

 

[coachv jr]

I doubt you'd see any loss since Oklahoma would bring in a National TV audience following and Temple would bring in another major city...

My post was meant to be much less about revenue and much more about evening out the competitive balance of both divisions.

By moving Michigan State to the West and adding Oklahoma the West just became tougher, top thru middle.

By moving p u to the East and adding Temple, the East, while remaining difficult becomes less of a hardcore meat grinder for the middle...

people in philly care about watching temple as much as new yorkers care about watching rutgers. hardly at all

 

[coachv jr]

Not me, I’m all in B10. Just saying when adding new teams if that was inevitable I like the more MidWest adds, lime NE, KU, Mizzou, Iowa St. That may not be best TV market thinking cap move, but I think hardcore MidWest focus would be a strong brand, close to go to away games, and be very appealing. Not sure I’ll ever be excited playing Rutgers.

yep. columbus to nebraska. just get up saturday morning, have a quick drive, enjoy the noon tipoff

 

[coachv jr]

problem is, what you consider entertaining is being taken seriously by those who ruined things in the 1st place, and the solution you offer only ruins the league even more.

and Neb going back to the B12, RU, PSU, UMd going elsewhere, or joining in with a reformed ACC minus the recently added smaller schools that bring little to the ACC, isn't as far fetched as you think.

half the PSU and UMd fans want to be in the ACC now.. RU will be happy in the ACC as well.. and Neb fans won't mind the B12 again, as their B10 experience has not been good at all.

bet you never thought you'd be advancing the idea of RU, Temple, and UMd, in the B10 either.

i'd keep penn st. they just feel like old time big ten football

 

[coachv jr]

problem is, what you consider entertaining is being taken seriously by those who ruined things in the 1st place, and the solution you offer only ruins the league even more.

and Neb going back to the B12, RU, PSU, UMd going elsewhere, or joining in with a reformed ACC minus the recently added smaller schools that bring little to the ACC, isn't as far fetched as you think.

half the PSU and UMd fans want to be in the ACC now.. RU will be happy in the ACC as well.. and Neb fans won't mind the B12 again, as their B10 experience has not been good at all.

bet you never thought you'd be advancing the idea of RU, Temple, and UMd, in the B10 either.

hell, rutgers belongs in the atlantic 10

 

[coachv jr]

Interesting concept but it falls short in one significant way. Any B10 fan (and especially fans of the following two institutions) would agree that Michigan and Ohio State should play every year, but the whining out of East Lansing about Michigan State not being guaranteed a game against its in-state rival would be similar to a B10 schedule leaving out IU and Purdue.

This proposal also penalizes Michigan and Ohio State for having a guaranteed crossover against (currently) the strongest opponents in the conference. Michigan’s closest in-division opponent would be 240 miles away. And the beauty (not to be underestimated) of the current Eastern division are several major research universities who are guaranteed one away game per year to a major alumni base (New York/Rutgers) or the Federal Government (also alumni base...Washington/Maryland). I know from people in Ann Arbor, Columbus and Happy Valley that this is a huge deal.

It would be interesting to see some “pods” of four teams (assuming the league gets to 16) that would start with 3 “in-pod” opponents, perhaps a single guaranteed crossover if needed, and the remaining schedule created in season based on season records to date. (1st place teams play each other).

The challenges are obviously first getting the home/away balanced for revenue purposes and coming to grips with the likelihood that a 4/5 year football player might not play all the other teams in the league at least once during a career.

Pods that write themselves are
WEST: Nebraska/Wisconsin/Minnesota/Iowa
MIDWEST: Indiana/Purdue/Northwestern/Illinois
EAST: Rutgers/Maryland/Penn State
MIDEAST: Michigan/Michigan State/. Ohio state could go here or in the East.

A lot would depend on where the inevitable 15&16 teams are located.

Appreciate the thought provoking post.

there are probably more michigan alumni that rutgers alumni living in nyc

 

[IUCX9]

don't blue bloods have to win? they are a blue blood in football like iu is in basketball. in memory only

Even Penn State went through a drought with Joe Pa. Scott Frost will win. Last 4 recruiting classes ranked #24, 20, 21, 15.

 

[ElMeson]

https://www.espn.com/college-footba...rojans-lead-list-college-football-blue-bloods

No Penn State

 

[rezzerfly]

It's not going to bring a new TV market in but I think Pitt should be in.

That could bump IU out west

I know football runs these moves but would also like to add Iowa State and Kansas. West Virginia doesn't belong where they're at. Two West, Two East.

 

[rezzerfly]

Adding Pitt and WV due to closeness makes sense

 

[rezzerfly]

Virginia, VT would also be nice. Sub them in for Iowa State and Kansas.