Actually, I'm ripping the people who blasted Crean for something they're giving Archie a free pass for.
Odd how that keeps flying over all of your heads.
If there's one thing I hate, it's hypocrites.
The oversign...
- Thread starter MKordIUBB
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Actually, I'm ripping the people who blasted Crean for something they're giving Archie a free pass for.
Odd how that keeps flying over all of your heads.
If there's one thing I hate, it's hypocrites.
I agree that a lot of that goes on here...
And there's a lot of 'The days of (insert a Crean weakness here) are finally over!'
So while I do hope for more wins, better defense, and mostly IU to succeed - I do find it humorous how some show their hopes.
Archie is still in his honeymoon phase where people view everything he does positively. There have been a lot of positives though.
Some people will never look at things positively . Some are just not happy unless they are complaining about something or being negative.
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B) or C) will be looked at with a skeptical eye, rightly or wrongly. With our recent history, that is understandable. That said, at this point it's all pure speculation. Me, I'd prefer we not find ourselves in an oversign situation, but if we do I will give CAM the benefit of the doubt until such time as I find it's undeserved.
Yawn.
The "real" fans like you think we shouldn't bring up ANYTHING negative at all or else that makes us a HATER.
Even when the coach is a complete and total disaster, like Crean was, you cried your eyes out with, "Waaaaaaaaahhhh, stop the negativity."
(rolleyes)
Why?
Are you saying if he doesn't "win big" his first 2 years he's gone?
(rolleyes)
I'd rather he do things the right way from the start and don't buy into the "WE HAVE TO WIN RIGHT AWAY" crapola.
Let me come out and say what I think you are fishing for. If Archie oversigns this year, and it forces Curtis Jones or Devonte Green to transfer then I am OK with that. The reason that is acceptable, is because they are not his recruits. If the oversign forces Al Durham or Phinisee out then it would be considered Creaning, and I'm not ok with that. Archie winning Championships will not change my position on that. The error you are making is that you are stuck at the act of recruiting more guys than scholarships. That alone is not inappropriate. Are you happy now?
Why? Signing more talented players is always going to push some kids out. Nothing wrong with signing more talented players, or a guy on the roster deciding to leave because he thinks his PT is jeopardized. The only thing I see as wrong is a coach deciding to force a kid out and making him miserable in doing so. And that likely may apply to GG. Honestly I'm OK with what he did there though, just because I think the kid was so overmatched at this level; he should have never been on the roster. Crean should have lived with it, but I don't think it's reasonable to ask Archie to. He had to take an unfortunate action because of Crean's misstep and that sucks for GG. But, his beef to me is with CTC.
This thread suggests that
Or trying to redefine "Hoosier Hysteria" to signify an irrational mental/emotional state rather than fervent appreciation for and obsession with the Game.
Or trying to redefine "Hoosier Hysteria" to signify an irrational mental/emotional state rather than fervent appreciation for and obsession with the Game.
Solid contender for first prize in hypocrisy. CuJo and Devo are IU's recruit's - their deal was with IU, not CTC. Trying to spin it so it's ok to cut loose either one (and for an unproven recruit at that) is pure BS and a complete slap at two young men that made life-changing commitments and who continue to work their asses off for IU. As of right now they're Family.
I'd take getting to watch either one and preferably both for three more years over anyone CAM might recruit.
A-freaking-men.
It's pretty disgusting how these "real" fans look at these kids as just pieces of meat in their selfish quest to see a Title.
Don't brag "We worship our players" in one breathe and then turn around and say, "But we'll kick you out the door the SECOND we think we found someone better."
And they can take their "That's just the way the game is today" and ram it where the sun don't shine as I was always taught, "Just because others do something wrong doesn't make it ok for you to."
I doubt many parents on here let their kids do something bad/wrong when the kid says, "But dad....all the other kids do it too." "Well, heck, son, if all the other kids are hood surfing at night, I guess it's ok for you too."
Having read various IU boards for the last ~10 years. Either (i) IU coaches do not get honeymoon phases where people view what they do positively or (ii) I have no idea what "honeymoon phase" means.
I think the drumbeat of criticism may have gotten higher at the end of Sampson's and Crean's tenures, but they were criticized effectively from the beginning (as is Miller now).
Crea
Creaning is over committing....like having 16 players for 13 spots. We currently have 12 players for 13 spots. And that makes this is a really dumb issue.
ehhh....i might agree we're ruining these kids lives (?) if all parties didn't kind of know the deal. i'll sign whatever petition you hardliners put in front of me but until then i can deal with the occasional roster nudging. considering the blow back on our last guy I'm sure Miller isn't headed down that road.
No, Goober, if a kid leaves on his own that does not mean he was "pushed out."
"Pushed out" is when you over-sign so you HAVE to get rid of a kid no matter what.
No one is saying Archie shouldn't "keep recruiting", so you can stop that Strawman. What I'm saying is, don't take a kid that you don't have to have when you only have 2 spots open and still have a great shot at 2 Top 10 kids.
Are you being stupid on purpose?
Nothing like folks that complain incessantly about things that haven't yet and may never happen. You might as well start complaining about not making the tournament this year, Trump getting re elected in 2020, the price of gas next year, etc. What a stupid waste of time.
You're exhibiting record levels of butthurt. Tell the truth, it's about Steve isn't it?
But he is doing things "the right way" and exceeding our expectations. You are so Vocal over things that might happen. Archie has done so much in so little time, I can't help but be impressed. You have made 100 negative posts over something that hasNOT happened. wow
What? these kids are given advantages o over kids obtain- unfortunately better wins-- yo are living in lala land and give losers trophies with that attitude- You would neve run my company because it would fail miserably always rewarding mediocrity because of loyalty
I think everyone should first learn the difference in over-signing, and over-committing. fwiw - This isn't directed at you but the board as a whole.
Teams are allowed to over sign, that is to sign a 14th recruit, though they still need to be down to 13 at the beginning of the season.
That's not what Crean did, it's not what he's famous for and it's not the reason Wisconsin fans coined his actions as Creaning while he was at Marquette. At IU he was only over- signed twice.
Crean over-committed or over-recruited. Which was the act of accepting verbals when the roster was already full and there wasn't enough open spots, or reason to expect open spots, except with transfers.
Basically assuring he would have constant roster turnover. Which he did. It was also the order in which he did it. Most coaches have the awareness to realize letting players go before replacing them looked better. Crean, well, awareness just isn't his thing.
Other programs over-sign or over-commit once in a while. Iowa and Wisconsin a couple years back. Duke, once or twice. Louisville a few times. Most major programs will over commit one player once in a awhile (generally when they know a player is going pro ) but that's the key, most programs over-commit by one and not every year.
It's very rare for programs to do what Crean did by constantly accepting verbals before spots opened up, rarer still to accept more than one and even rarer still to do it every year.
Crean did it every year but two at IU and almost every year at Marq from 2004 on. One year he had 16 players for 13 spots. The years Crean over-committed we had transfers. Obviously, because we had to have people leave to fit in the new players. This always made us young and inexperienced and made HS and AAU coaches wonder if sending their kids to someone with no loyalty was wise.
That's the act of "Creaning". That was Crean's problem - not over-signing. If these people see Arch over-committed the next 7 of 9 years and by more than just one player, then they can bitch about it and compare him to Crean.
Until then - it's obvious they're people only looking for fault based on their emotional needs, either a love of Crean or just petty attention for themselves. It's not based on any measure of moral integrity, knowledge or intelligence.
Basically, they have very little information,or knowledge. Most don't even know what the issue is (or what a forward is) and they're just whining to whine.
"forwards" .. lol.
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thanks for that complete load of crappola.
if you sign more guys in the fall than you know you'll lose in the spring, then you're flat oversigned period.
there is no way to verbally bs around that, as you are so trying to do.
you have to keep the incoming freshmen, (though Crean and IU managed to magically get around that with the Indy kid who ended up at Cuse).
since you can't Crean an incoming freshman by rule, if no underclassmen go pro or wish to transfer, you tell a kid he's decided to transfer.
I agree, if a kid comes in and does what's asked of him, the school and program should honor their commitment, and I think most feel the same. But there is an onus on the kid to keep up their end of the bargain, in the classroom, weight room, locker room and on the court. Unfortunately, we had a prior Coach who set some kids up to fail because they didn't have the tools to be successful in all those areas (GG, TP, Devin Davis and HMP all come to mind). Archie, based on his history at Dayton, has given every indication that he will be more forthright and judicious in selecting these players. I'm glad you're watchful and not going along with the crowd, but I think you also have to give the guy some leniency in cleaning this up and getting the program the way he wants and needs it, based on what he inherited. Be watchful, but also give the guy the room to get us to the point where we do things the right way, with the right players and win. I understand your concern, but when you bend the facts to say we have "7 forwards", as opposed to recognizing that collectively they have skills that span 4 positions, it comes off as Chicken Little.
Yet Archie is setting out to do this very thing his first year out.
He asked all these players to come back so he surely isn't showing them any loyalty at all.
It's also a lie he only keeps 11 players on the team like we were told. It's fine he has more, but the people who claimed that are clueless.
learn how to read if you plan on being the moral conscience and chief critic of the board
"Be watchful, but also give the guy the room to get us to the point where we do things the right way, with the right players and win. I understand your concern, but when you bend the facts to say we have "7 forwards", as opposed to recognizing that collectively they have skills that span 4 positions, it comes off as Chicken Little."
I must have missed it.
Could you please give me a link to something stating that part of your argument?
Thanks in advance.
Only thing he has said was that he will not always use up all 13 scholarships but he never said it would be every year.
learn how to read if you plan on being the moral conscience and chief critic of the board
"Be watchful, but also give the guy the room to get us to the point where we do things the right way, with the right players and win. I understand your concern, but when you bend the facts to say we have "7 forwards", as opposed to recognizing that collectively they have skills that span 4 positions, it comes off as Chicken Little."
We've been told he plays all 4.
