The oversign...

[Tasmanian Devil]

Oversigning has NOT happened, silly. You Creaniacs are hilarious.

This is the point that amazes me in this whole thread.

Where is there any GUARANTEE we get both Garland and Romeo? There isn't - so, because you believe we might "oversign" you don't recruit Garland as hard - and then lose Romeo to UofL? You get Romeo to commit first, then stop because you're out of scholarships - Garland goes to Duke/Vanderbilt, then Davis has a monster year and goes pro? Or another guy decides to transfer (I know, it's always they're being PUSHED out when that happens, right)?

Vegas, our guy has no history of Creaning. None. Doesn't he deserve the benefit of doubt?

 

[MKordIUBB]

Heard the in home visit went very well.

This is the point that amazes me in this whole thread.

Where is there any GUARANTEE we get both Garland and Romeo? There isn't - so, because you believe we might "oversign" you don't recruit Garland as hard - and then lose Romeo to UofL? You get Romeo to commit first, then stop because you're out of scholarships - Garland goes to Duke/Vanderbilt, then Davis has a monster year and goes pro? Or another guy decides to transfer (I know, it's always they're being PUSHED out when that happens, right)?

Vegas, our guy has no history of Creaning. None. Doesn't he deserve the benefit of doubt?

Why in the world would we stop recruiting Garland if Romeo signed? He's a top 10 player we are in the top 2 or 3 on behind Vandy, maybe Duke, and maybe UK. I also saw he is very excited for Hoosier Hysteria

 

[cryano]

Some of you sound like you prefer the 'Josh Smith' strategy...go after just a couple really big name guys that you have a scholarship spot for, claim help is on the way, then when they dont come say 'man if Josh Smith wouldve come...'

 

[IU Scott]

we get it, it's only "oversigning" if someone other than Archie does it, and it only counts even with Archie, if Archie does it to one of his own recruits.

and it doesn't even count with Archie's own recruits, if the player isn't as good as other players.

too bad the term "quantitative easing" was already taken.

"oversigning" makes it sound like we're recruiting more kids than we have schollies, which is a total distortion of the situation.

at least so, after taking into account that players recruited by previous coaches and players that aren't as good as other players apparently don't count, therefore shouldn't even be considered in the numbers.

So are you saying if we have 4 open scholarships then we should only recruit 4 players. You have to put a wide net out when you are recruiting and can't just recruit a few players and hope they commit to you.

 

[TheVegasHoosier]

This is the point that amazes me in this whole thread.

Where is there any GUARANTEE we get both Garland and Romeo? There isn't - so, because you believe we might "oversign" you don't recruit Garland as hard - and then lose Romeo to UofL? You get Romeo to commit first, then stop because you're out of scholarships - Garland goes to Duke/Vanderbilt, then Davis has a monster year and goes pro? Or another guy decides to transfer (I know, it's always they're being PUSHED out when that happens, right)?

Vegas, our guy has no history of Creaning. None. Doesn't he deserve the benefit of doubt?

First of all, who cares if there is a "GUARANTEE" or not? As long as we have a legit shot, which we do, we should keep our options open for it.

Second, it's not like he used the ride on a 4 or 5 star....or at a position we weren't loaded at. It was for a 3 star at a position with have a glut of....so two strikes in that.

Third, stop acting like it would have been the END OF THE WORLD if a couple players left we didn't expect and "only" had 11 or 12 players on the team. Virtually no team in the country plays even 10 players.

 

[TheVegasHoosier]

So are you saying if we have 4 open scholarships then we should only recruit 4 players. You have to put a wide net out when you are recruiting and can't just recruit a few players and hope they commit to you.

Who are you directing that question to? Haven't seen a single person imply it.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

First of all, who cares if there is a "GUARANTEE" or not? As long as we have a legit shot, which we do, we should keep our options open for it

Just how do you KNOW we aren't doing that?

 

[i'vegotwinners]

So are you saying if we have 4 open scholarships then we should only recruit 4 players. You have to put a wide net out when you are recruiting and can't just recruit a few players and hope they commit to you.

who said or even implied that?

no one and you know it.

if you have 4 schollies available, you go after as many potential recruits as you wish.

but once you have 4 "commits" you're out of schollies so you need to stop at that point.

 

[TheVegasHoosier]

Just how do you KNOW we aren't doing that?

It's called "math", cupcake.

We have ONE spot open yet TWO Top 10 guards are still seriously considering us.

 

[Tony20]

It's called "math", cupcake.

We have ONE spot open yet TWO Top 10 guards are still seriously considering us.

Which kind of implies that Archie understands that someone will be either A) head to pros (whether smart or not is a different conversation) or B) is going to graduate early and leave or C) he knows that out of 5-6 guys one might choose to go play elsewhere for more time.

Have to be the only fan base in the country that spends this much time on this topic. With the exception of maybe PU or Illinois fans.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Vegas, our guy has no history of Creaning. None.

NONE?? LMAO!

Grant Gelon might be surprised to learn that.

Miller couldn't Crean him fast enough. (or was he "Millered", so it therefor doesn't officially count as a "Creaning")

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

It's called "math", cupcake.

We have ONE spot open yet TWO Top 10 guards are still seriously considering us.

How do KNOW it's only one spot, Vegas? Maybe, just maybe Archie knows something we don't. He's never had a history of creaning, has he? Don't you think he deserves the benefit of doubt?

And "cupcake"? C'mon, Vegas, you're better than that. Let's don't go down that road . . .

 

[MKordIUBB]

NONE?? LMAO!

Grant Gelon might be surprised to learn that.

Miller couldn't Crean him fast enough. (or was he "Millered", so it therefor doesn't officially count as a "Creaning")

Grant Gelon was an odd situation. He's a slightly above average player for highschool that got offered to a b10 school. If you can't play, you don't stay

 

[i'vegotwinners]

How do KNOW it's only one spot, Vegas? Maybe, just maybe Archie knows something we don't. He's never had a history of creaning, has he? Don't you think he deserves the benefit of doubt?

And "cupcake"? C'mon, Vegas, you're better than that. Let's don't go down that road . . .

what's really amazing, is that apparently coaches know that a player is going to transfer, before the player or his family have the slightest idea he's planing on doing so.

who knew????

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Grant Gelon was an odd situation. He's a slightly above average player for highschool that got offered to a b10 school. If you can't play, you don't stay

yes, the infamous "odd situation" exemption.

i feel so silly now.. if it's an "odd situation", that obviously changes everything.

on a side note, if it falls under the "odd situation" exemption, does that mean the otherwise "Creaned" player doesn't have to sit out a yr to trans to another D1 school, because after all, it was an "odd situation"?

 

[mohepa]

Everyone is forgetting an important part of the equation. Just because a kid is "committed" he is not signed and IU can't talk about it. Any chance that one of our commits has a conditional offer?

I also think the biggest difference in my opinion is that we are not currently recruiting 5-7 more players. That is what drove me crazy the last few years.

Bottom line is NO ONE has signed yet and therefore we are not "oversigned". If in April, after the season is over we have 14 signed players for 13 slots, this is a legitimate conversation. Until then it is just looking for a reason to argue.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Everyone is forgetting an important part of the equation. Just because a kid is "committed" he is not signed and IU can't talk about it. Any chance that one of our commits has a conditional offer?

I also think the biggest difference in my opinion is that we are not currently recruiting 5-7 more players. That is what drove me crazy the last few years.

Bottom line is NO ONE has signed yet and therefore we are not "oversigned". If in April, after the season is over we have 14 signed players for 13 slots, this is a legitimate conversation. Until then it is just looking for a reason to argue.

what absurd self serving perverted logic.

if you have 14 signed players for 13 slots after the season, there is no "legitimate conversation" to be had, nor can there be.

you would have to kick a player off the team.

you could debate which player to kick off. (by rule, has to be a returning player not an incoming player).

but that debate and this debate are not the same debate. can you actually not grasp that?

 

[jimmygoiu]

NONE?? LMAO!

Grant Gelon might be surprised to learn that.

Miller couldn't Crean him fast enough. (or was he "Millered", so it therefor doesn't officially count as a "Creaning")

Nine players transferred in Painter's first 2 years. Comments?

 

[TheVegasHoosier]

Which kind of implies that Archie understands that someone will be either A) head to pros (whether smart or not is a different conversation) or B) is going to graduate early and leave or C) he knows that out of 5-6 guys one might choose to go play elsewhere for more time.

.

Every single one of those options applied to Crean's teams as well....yet he was still crucified for over-signing.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Nine players transferred in Painter's first 2 years. Comments?

LMAO, that the best ya got??

what does that have to do with anything??

obviously you've reached the desperation level, in trying to justify the unjustifiable.

 

[jimmygoiu]

LMAO, that the best ya got??

what does that have to do with anything??

obviously you've reached the desperation level, in trying to justify the unjustifiable.

I am fine with players leaving to allow Archie to field his best team. If it happens to the extent that it did at pu, I would be concerned. So no desperation on my end, just excited that we may land Romeo AND Darius. That is all. Hope your period goes a little smoother, so you are not so emotional over nothing.

 

[TheVegasHoosier]

I am fine with players leaving to allow Archie to field his best team. If it happens to the extent that it did at pu, I would be concerned. So no desperation on my end, just excited that we may land Romeo AND Darius. That is all. Hope your period goes a little smoother, so you are not so emotional over nothing.

The only ones on the rag are those foaming at the mouth I'm a HATER because I said I wished we hadn't taken the last kid.

 

[jimmygoiu]

The only ones on the rag are those foaming at the mouth I'm a HATER because I said I wished we hadn't taken the last kid.

I would have been ok with waiting on Forrester. He is now a commit to IU, is a legit contributor down the road, so I will support Archie's decision to accept the commitment. I guess I'm a little shellshocked by many of Crean's offers/acceptances, and am thrilled that Archie only offers legit B1G basketball players.

 

[IDontWannaLargeFarva]

Defectors(whether shown the door or leaving on their own) are a major part of every top program. I've never seen it this hotly debated before. Especially when it hasn't even happened yet.

Any number of things could happen to make room for Garland, Romeo or other top players. Using Archie's signing of Forrester as a platform on which to prematurely rant about roster management seems like a non sequitur to me.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Defectors(whether shown the door or leaving on their own) are a major part of every top program. I've never seen it this hotly debated before. Especially when it hasn't even happened yet.

Any number of things could happen to make room for Garland, Romeo or other top players. Using Archie's signing of Forrester as a platform on which to prematurely rant about roster management seems like a non sequitur to me.

someone "shown the door" is hardly a "defector".

the "defectors", are the ones, (coach, AD, and school) who literally abandon the kid, (not the other way around), strictly for self gain, in showing him the door

 

[IDontWannaLargeFarva]

someone "shown the door" is hardly a "defector".

the "defectors", are the ones, (coach, AD, and school) who literally abandon the kid, (not the other way around), strictly for self gain, in showing him the door

So say what you mean then. Is Archie an unethical person for forcing out Gelon? If you believe he is then go find a new program too root for. I wouldn't want you to sacrifice your morals by rooting for a shady coach. We're not UK amiright?

But if you're gonna stay and root for IU, then quit complaining about something that is commonplace and necessary.

 

[MKordIUBB]

LMAO, that the best ya got??

what does that have to do with anything??

obviously you've reached the desperation level, in trying to justify the unjustifiable.

What's unjustifiable? Is it justified to say no to a recruit far better than a current player that wants to commit?

 

[IDontWannaLargeFarva]

What's unjustifiable? Is it justified to say no to a recruit far better than a current player that wants to commit?

No it's not. And Archie would have a hard time justifying that decision to Fred if it caused him to lose games. That is his job after all, to win games.

These scholarships are renewed every year. They don't come with a guarantee that you can stay here if the team is trying to improve and you're low man on the totem pole.

You want stability? Say no to the scholarship and be a regular student.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

So say what you mean then. Is Archie an unethical person for forcing out Gelon? If you believe he is then go find a new program too root for. I wouldn't want you to sacrifice your morals by rooting for a shady coach. We're not UK amiright?

But if you're gonna stay and root for IU, then quit complaining about something that is commonplace and necessary.

are you under some impression i don't say what i mean?

LMAO!!!

since you are suggesting forcing players out is unethical, perhaps you should say what you mean.

as for my loyalties, my loyalty is to IU, not Miller or Glass or McRobbie, and if any of those do something, anything, i see as tarnishing the school, they do nothing but lose points with me.

 

[IDontWannaLargeFarva]

are you under some impression i don't say what i mean?

LMAO!!!

since you are suggesting forcing players out is unethical, perhaps you should say what you mean.

as for my loyalties, my loyalty is to IU, not Miller or Glass or McRobbie, and if any of those do something, anything, i see as tarnishing the school, they do nothing but lose points with me.

You think Gelon being forced out tarnished IU?

 

[wchew200]

This is the point that amazes me in this whole thread.

Where is there any GUARANTEE we get both Garland and Romeo? There isn't - so, because you believe we might "oversign" you don't recruit Garland as hard - and then lose Romeo to UofL? You get Romeo to commit first, then stop because you're out of scholarships - Garland goes to Duke/Vanderbilt, then Davis has a monster year and goes pro? Or another guy decides to transfer (I know, it's always they're being PUSHED out when that happens, right)?

Vegas, our guy has no history of Creaning. None. Doesn't he deserve the benefit of doubt?

No creaning? None? Grant Gelon strongly disagrees. From things I've read over the years (been a rivals member for 10 years) is that every coach accounts for 1 guy leaving each year that still has eligibility. People have to remember, tgat just because the public doesn't know that someone is leaving, it doesn't mean that the coach doesn't know that someone is leaving.

 

[T.M.P.]

NONE?? LMAO!

Grant Gelon might be surprised to learn that.

Miller couldn't Crean him fast enough. (or was he "Millered", so it therefor doesn't officially count as a "Creaning")

dumb

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

dumb

They need to talk to Rabjohns

 

[T.M.P.]

They need to talk to Rabjohns

It's probably nothing but a sorry ass attempt to validate Crean, well, beyond being dumb.

It's almost if there's posters trying to out dumb each other ...

 

[cshartle123]

Every single one of those options applied to Crean's teams as well....yet he was still crucified for over-signing.

Vegas, are you trying to find ways to criticize Miller because he has already reeled in guys that Crean couldn't get five minutes with? Miller is going to be so much better than Crean that you won't even remember the Syracuse game. He will be transparent with players and handle business ethically. I understand we have been hard on Crean, but you might wait to pick a better battle.

 

[IU Scott]

who said or even implied that?

no one and you know it.

if you have 4 schollies available, you go after as many potential recruits as you wish.

but once you have 4 "commits" you're out of schollies so you need to stop at that point.

Why is that because you never know if players will transfer or leave early for the NBA. With over 700 transfers a year and that comes out to around 2 a team so you keep recruiting. If the new transfer rule comes in then you really have to keep recruiting.

 

[IU Scott]

How do KNOW it's only one spot, Vegas? Maybe, just maybe Archie knows something we don't. He's never had a history of creaning, has he? Don't you think he deserves the benefit of doubt?

And "cupcake"? C'mon, Vegas, you're better than that. Let's don't go down that road . . .

I ignored him and it makes going through this board a lot more tolerable.

 

[minneman]

I ignored him and it makes going through this board a lot more tolerable.

Same here. My first"ignore" and it's been a good one.

 

[jet812]

How do KNOW it's only one spot, Vegas? Maybe, just maybe Archie knows something we don't. He's never had a history of creaning, has

Vegas, are you trying to find ways to criticize Miller because he has already reeled in guys that Crean couldn't get five minutes of with? Miller is going to be so much better than Crean that you won't even remember the Syracuse game. He will be transparent with players and handle business ethically. I understand we have been hard on Crean, but you might wait to pick a better battle.

He's butt hurt we didn't hire Alford...

 

[kkott]

First of all, who cares if there is a "GUARANTEE" or not? As long as we have a legit shot, which we do, we should keep our options open for it.

Second, it's not like he used the ride on a 4 or 5 star....or at a position we weren't loaded at. It was for a 3 star at a position with have a glut of....so two strikes in that.

Third, stop acting like it would have been the END OF THE WORLD if a couple players left we didn't expect and "only" had 11 or 12 players on the team. Virtually no team in the country plays even 10 players.

My guess is he feels Forrester fills a position of need: namely defending the post. There are still 2 areas of need to me for 2018: post and PG depth. CAM has no control over the talent in a given year and 2018 is weak on post depth. I think he took a calculated gamble with Forrester hoping he can defend the 5. Right now it seems the only proven player we have is Davis... and he could leave or get injured. i know folks are hoping Moore or Thompson can fill that void, but I think that's his plan with Forrester and I agree it's an area of need.

Also, while I don't think CAM's nature or desire is to oversign, he's dealing with the aftereffects from a coach who did. GG fell victim to that and I would support him doing that to get the roster he wants. As I said, if we're dealing with this in year 3 and beyond, then I'll consider it a problem. If it were to come to pass now, I'd consider it an unfortunate outcome from a former Coach who took too many panic commits. I also disagree on "only" having 11 players. If that shortfall strikes this roster at an area of need (PG or post) then we could have a real problem. And I bet you'd be the first to be complaining about it.