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The other side of Christianity

Marvin the Martian

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Sometimes our conservative brothers and sisters try to infer that Christianity = conservative. That is far from the truth, and here is a great example.

For some time I have been tired of the way conservatives have tried to infer one must be conservative to be Christian. I am quite proud of what those Christians did. I would fully support my church offering sanctuary.
 
I see that inference more from our liberal brothers and sisters and that inference is usually followed by some epithet against Christians (or what they conceive a Christian or Christianity to be).

The religion is not left or right, no matter which political side you choose you are going to have to do some moral pretzel twisting to support them. I dated a Catholic girl in college who was fairly liberal on most things, she was also very anti-abortion. That was something she struggled with.
 
I see that inference more from our liberal brothers and sisters and that inference is usually followed by some epithet against Christians (or what they conceive a Christian or Christianity to be).

The religion is not left or right, no matter which political side you choose you are going to have to do some moral pretzel twisting to support them. I dated a Catholic girl in college who was fairly liberal on most things, she was also very anti-abortion. That was something she struggled with.
The first part of your post is laughable. The GOP and right wingers have monopolized god for ages. Some candidates on the right have gone as far as to say if you are a liberal, Democrat, or anything but a Pub you are godless...and I have seen many instances of Pub politicians calling the democrat party a godless party. The invisible man (thought you might like a "gotcha" moment) has always been a central plank in the GOP's rallying cry. If you are not a "conservative pub" you are godless. At least try to be believable on your claims about "liberals".
 
The first part of your post is laughable. The GOP and right wingers have monopolized god for ages. Some candidates on the right have gone as far as to say if you are a liberal, Democrat, or anything but a Pub you are godless...and I have seen many instances of Pub politicians calling the democrat party a godless party. The invisible man (thought you might like a "gotcha" moment) has always been a central plank in the GOP's rallying cry. If you are not a "conservative pub" you are godless. At least try to be believable on your claims about "liberals".

Thanks for making my point. I hope you are not as miserable a person in real life as you come across on these forums.
 
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Sometimes our conservative brothers and sisters try to infer that Christianity = conservative. That is far from the truth, and here is a great example.

For some time I have been tired of the way conservatives have tried to infer one must be conservative to be Christian. I am quite proud of what those Christians did. I would fully support my church offering sanctuary.

Good post Marvin. Sometimes the left gets over it’s skis when it equates Christians to evangelicals. The raging hypocrites are the evangelicals, not the Christians. My guess is that the percentage of Methodists that support Trump is much lower than the 80% of evangelicals that do. The majority of Christians decry divisive rhetoric and would support equal protection for LGBT and humane treatment for immigrants and refugees. If anything, we have learned the evangelicals have missed much of Jesus’ teachings about what it means to be a Christian.
 
I see that inference more from our liberal brothers and sisters and that inference is usually followed by some epithet against Christians (or what they conceive a Christian or Christianity to be).

The religion is not left or right, no matter which political side you choose you are going to have to do some moral pretzel twisting to support them. I dated a Catholic girl in college who was fairly liberal on most things, she was also very anti-abortion. That was something she struggled with.

It is true that the religion is not in itself conservative or liberal, which is my point. I have no issue with people choosing to be conservative Christians, note how I don't go after Van's Christianity. He is free to interpret scripture as he will even though it may befuddle me.

But there are numerous issues where it appears to this liberal Christian that conservatives co-opt the religion. A great example is the debate on gay rights where many proudly proclaim that it is the right/duty of Christians to stand up against homosexuality. No, it is not. It may be the right/duty of some specific forms of Christianity but not all of us accept that.

Now I will make fun of some people who view themselves as leaders of Christianity. My youngest, far and away the most spiritual in my family, worked for a Christian bookstore. She was aghast at how many items sold have Joel Osteen's face, that he is selling himself and not Christ. That I completely accept and because Mr Osteen is so much a public figure so no reason not to call him out specifically.

But for the majority of conservatives I may not agree with your interpretation but I don't have a direct line to God so I accept it is entirely your right to have it. But this Christian does not believe there is a war on Christmas, or a war on Christians, or that being gay is somehow some sin far greater than any other sin, or accept our response at the border. I try to couch anything I believe with "I believe" and not "Christians believe" not even "Methodists believe".

And I do suspect if a group of conservative Christians were arrested trying to block an Obama law enforcement operation we would be hearing the words, "war on Christians". I don't believe this action by ICE was anything close to that. I admire the people that took that step of surrounding the ICE vehicle, but they should have been arrested and they were. Being Christian is not a get out of jail free card. The US government put a lot of pressure on Turkey to release a Christian pastor. I'm glad it worked, but for me, I'm not sure a Christian pastor deserved special treatment. This NASA scientist is still held in Turkey. For me, all humans regardless of faith should be accorded basic human rights. I don't get why so much more effort was expended on the pastor. I'm not arguing for less, but one was a major expenditure of political capital and the other has been completely ignored.

So I guess I am saying among other things, I don't believe we should expect more from this country be cause we are Christian. But it seems some do. And those some seem to be more conservative.
 
Good post Marvin. Sometimes the left gets over it’s skis when it equates Christians to evangelicals. The raging hypocrites are the evangelicals, not the Christians. My guess is that the percentage of Methodists that support Trump is much lower than the 80% of evangelicals that do. The majority of Christians decry divisive rhetoric and would support equal protection for LGBT and humane treatment for immigrants and refugees. If anything, we have learned the evangelicals have missed much of Jesus’ teachings about what it means to be a Christian.

I am glad you mentioned, "Sometimes the left gets over it’s skis when it equates Christians to evangelicals". I see that happen often and among people I know I try to point out not all Christians are evangelical. I often receive a reply that I should make sure not to let the evangelicals speak for me then. Which is what I am doing here. I think we on the left have been much quieter than our evangelical brethren, and thus the perception has grown that all Christians are evangelical and support Trump. That certainly isn't true. We saw it in Indiana with RFRA where a couple religious groups spoke out against it immediately. We just need to be better at making it clear we exist and that evangelicals do not speak for us.
 
It is true that the religion is not in itself conservative or liberal, which is my point. I have no issue with people choosing to be conservative Christians, note how I don't go after Van's Christianity. He is free to interpret scripture as he will even though it may befuddle me.

But there are numerous issues where it appears to this liberal Christian that conservatives co-opt the religion. A great example is the debate on gay rights where many proudly proclaim that it is the right/duty of Christians to stand up against homosexuality. No, it is not. It may be the right/duty of some specific forms of Christianity but not all of us accept that.

Now I will make fun of some people who view themselves as leaders of Christianity. My youngest, far and away the most spiritual in my family, worked for a Christian bookstore. She was aghast at how many items sold have Joel Osteen's face, that he is selling himself and not Christ. That I completely accept and because Mr Osteen is so much a public figure so no reason not to call him out specifically.

But for the majority of conservatives I may not agree with your interpretation but I don't have a direct line to God so I accept it is entirely your right to have it. But this Christian does not believe there is a war on Christmas, or a war on Christians, or that being gay is somehow some sin far greater than any other sin, or accept our response at the border. I try to couch anything I believe with "I believe" and not "Christians believe" not even "Methodists believe".

And I do suspect if a group of conservative Christians were arrested trying to block an Obama law enforcement operation we would be hearing the words, "war on Christians". I don't believe this action by ICE was anything close to that. I admire the people that took that step of surrounding the ICE vehicle, but they should have been arrested and they were. Being Christian is not a get out of jail free card. The US government put a lot of pressure on Turkey to release a Christian pastor. I'm glad it worked, but for me, I'm not sure a Christian pastor deserved special treatment. This NASA scientist is still held in Turkey. For me, all humans regardless of faith should be accorded basic human rights. I don't get why so much more effort was expended on the pastor. I'm not arguing for less, but one was a major expenditure of political capital and the other has been completely ignored.

So I guess I am saying among other things, I don't believe we should expect more from this country be cause we are Christian. But it seems some do. And those some seem to be more conservative.

There is some there that I agree with and some that I disagree with. Is their a war on Christianity? No. But people are much more openly hostile to it. I believe the "War on Christianity" is a smaller piece of a much larger war, that is the war against freedom of expression and freedom of thought. I think the extreme left is a pretty egregious offender in that war (and you will probably see the right as an aggressor as well).

I have agreement on Osteen. I am not a fan of the mega churches...at all. Some of the Indianapolis area churches have spent hundreds of thousands (if not more) on building gigantic concert halls that are used so a small group of people can "lead the congregation in song" (read: drown out the congregation by being Christian Rockstar every week) when, IMO, that money would be better served and spent helping out the less fortunate in the community.

We each have our own circles to square when it comes to religion, that is the reason for so many denominations to begin with.
 
There is some there that I agree with and some that I disagree with. Is their a war on Christianity? No. But people are much more openly hostile to it. I believe the "War on Christianity" is a smaller piece of a much larger war, that is the war against freedom of expression and freedom of thought. I think the extreme left is a pretty egregious offender in that war (and you will probably see the right as an aggressor as well).

I have agreement on Osteen. I am not a fan of the mega churches...at all. Some of the Indianapolis area churches have spent hundreds of thousands (if not more) on building gigantic concert halls that are used so a small group of people can "lead the congregation in song" (read: drown out the congregation by being Christian Rockstar every week) when, IMO, that money would be better served and spent helping out the less fortunate in the community.

We each have our own circles to square when it comes to religion, that is the reason for so many denominations to begin with.

Do you believe people are more hostile to Christianity or homosexuality?
 
I am glad you mentioned, "Sometimes the left gets over it’s skis when it equates Christians to evangelicals". I see that happen often and among people I know I try to point out not all Christians are evangelical. I often receive a reply that I should make sure not to let the evangelicals speak for me then. Which is what I am doing here. I think we on the left have been much quieter than our evangelical brethren, and thus the perception has grown that all Christians are evangelical and support Trump. That certainly isn't true. We saw it in Indiana with RFRA where a couple religious groups spoke out against it immediately. We just need to be better at making it clear we exist and that evangelicals do not speak for us.

I really like Bill Maher but I disagree with his assertive atheist stance. Telling religious folks that they are stupid is not helpful. I’m highly skeptical about some core beliefs of Mormons; however, the Mormons I’ve met have been kind, principled and family oriented. They are the exact kind of people we want to have in our society.
 
Do you believe people are more hostile to Christianity or homosexuality?

Depends on the person and the groups they run in. Take the arts crowd for instance, you would probably find more people in that group who are accepting of homosexuality and less accepting of Christianity. On the reverse, if you went to a small town in Alabama or Indiana, you would probably find the reverse to be true.

I think what gets us all in trouble is that we are far, far too comfortable in labeling people based on groups and then expecting them to adhere to everything we believe that group represents. So Christians are this. Jews think that. Muslims do this. Whites believe this. Blacks are good at that. Asians are capable of this. And on and on. In reality, we are all individuals and none of us fit into the perfect little demographic boxes that politicians, advertisers, and even we like to put each other in.
 
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Depends on the person and the groups they run in. Take the arts crowd for instance, you would probably find more people in that group who are accepting of homosexuality and less accepting of Christianity. On the reverse, if you went to a small town in Alabama or Indiana, you would probably find the reverse to be true.

I think what gets us all in trouble is that we are far, far too comfortable in labeling people based on groups and then expecting them to adhere to everything we believe that group represents. So Christians are this. Jews think that. Muslims do this. Whites believe this. Blacks are good at that. Asians are capable of this. And on and on. In reality, we are all individuals and none of us fit into the perfect little demographic boxes that politicians, advertisers, and even we like to put each other in.

I guess my point is that the war on Christianity is a made up affront concocted by the alleged victims and perpetuated by the GOP for political gain. As a white male catholic, I’ve witnessed absolutely no evidence of the alleged injustices. It’s like the war on Christmas. It exists mainly on Fox News.
 
I am glad you mentioned, "Sometimes the left gets over it’s skis when it equates Christians to evangelicals". I see that happen often and among people I know I try to point out not all Christians are evangelical. I often receive a reply that I should make sure not to let the evangelicals speak for me then. Which is what I am doing here. I think we on the left have been much quieter than our evangelical brethren, and thus the perception has grown that all Christians are evangelical and support Trump. That certainly isn't true. We saw it in Indiana with RFRA where a couple religious groups spoke out against it immediately. We just need to be better at making it clear we exist and that evangelicals do not speak for us.

I think this is another trap, it appears that you are equating Evangelical as bad. I do not think that is fair either.
 
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I think this is another trap, it appears that you are equating Evangelical as bad. I do not think that is fair either.

That may be true. Bad is in the eye of the beholder and I'm really just wanting to imply "very different". Take whatever wording you want to make my words mean that "Evangelicals have different beliefs than many other Christian groups and because they tend toward being more outgoing their beliefs are often taken as de facto "Christian".

Have you sat at a restaurant next to a table that has a very loud member? Sometimes that is how I perceive the Evangelicals simply because they are more willing, heck, they more desire the spotlight. It may not be completely fair to them, but it certainly appears they get attention far more than most other Christian groups. Because I am seated at the table with the Evangelical, often their views are interpreted as mine.
 
I haven't seen that inference. In fact I think the opposite is more true. I see non-christians and non-conservatives blending the two solely for purpose of disparaging both.

Really, you do not think I cannot easily find multiple examples of Evangelicals saying, "As a Christian I must oppose gay marriage (or a host of other beliefs)". The precise wording there is, "As an Evangelical I ... ". I know Ms Davis repeatedly used Christian in that context, and I am certain I can Google many other examples. By saying, "As a Christian", they are trying to speak for me as well and I do not grant them that privilege.
 
Really, you do not think I cannot easily find multiple examples of Evangelicals saying, "As a Christian I must oppose gay marriage (or a host of other beliefs)". The precise wording there is, "As an Evangelical I ... ". I know Ms Davis repeatedly used Christian in that context, and I am certain I can Google many other examples. By saying, "As a Christian", they are trying to speak for me as well and I do not grant them that privilege.

Of course you can. And you can find conservatives who oppose gay marriage. And you might even find a "Christian conservative" who opposes it. But just because two kinds of people believe the same thing doesn't make them joined at the hip. You are making the liberal argument that I see in every thread here. It goes like this:

Trump thinks tax reform is a good idea.

I think tax reform is a good idea.

Therefore: I am a Trump supporter.

Arrrggghhhhh!
 
Of course you can. And you can find conservatives who oppose gay marriage. And you might even find a "Christian conservative" who opposes it. But just because two kinds of people believe the same thing doesn't make them joined at the hip. You are making the liberal argument that I see in every thread here. It goes like this:

Trump thinks tax reform is a good idea.

I think tax reform is a good idea.

Therefore: I am a Trump supporter.

Arrrggghhhhh!

Well, you voted for Trump ergo you are a Trump supporter. That path is much easier to take than you made it out to be. It has nothing to do with the taxation argument. I voted for Hillary for President. I voted against her in the primary and gave cash to her opponent. But until the next election, I am technically a Hillary supporter. She got my vote. It doesn't mean I have to drink the kool aid and back every position of hers 100%. That would be a Hillary (or Trump) fanatic.

Trump has overwhelming poll support among Evangelicals. I assume they voted for him. Ergo, by definition, they are Trump supporters.
 
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Well, you voted for Trump ergo you are a Trump supporter. That path is much easier to take than you made it out to be. It has nothing to do with the taxation argument. I voted for Hillary for President. I voted against her in the primary and gave cash to her opponent. But until the next election, I am technically a Hillary supporter. She got my vote. It doesn't mean I have to drink the kool aid and back every position of hers 100%. That would be a Hillary (or Trump) fanatic.

Trump has overwhelming poll support among Evangelicals. I assume they voted for him. Ergo, by definition, they are Trump supporters.
This is nothing new. For years - several Presidential cycles at least and maybe more than several - the most reliable trait used to identify likely Republican voters has been the regularity of church attendance. Likewise the most likely indicator of Democrat voting has been the absence or near absence of church attendance. While none of the data is universal - no 100%s out there -- those numbers hold up. Christian Believers are likely to vote Republican and atheists are likely to vote Democrat. In between the outcomes slide from conservative to liberal. But, to repeat, that is never universally the case
 
Of course you can. And you can find conservatives who oppose gay marriage. And you might even find a "Christian conservative" who opposes it. But just because two kinds of people believe the same thing doesn't make them joined at the hip. You are making the liberal argument that I see in every thread here. It goes like this:

Trump thinks tax reform is a good idea.

I think tax reform is a good idea.

Therefore: I am a Trump supporter.

Arrrggghhhhh!
I stand in awe of this whole thread. I am devout believer of Christ and His church which is His body. Does this make me different from world views? I would surely hope so. Christians have since its start in Jerusalem have and always will be persecuted for their belief. Christ says to separate yourself from the things of this world, more to the point idols and false Prophets. any one thing that you put before God is an idle. If you claim to be a Christian one must strive to put Christ first in all matters. No mortal man alive today can succeed in this endeavor. It is not a easy life to try and let others see the good in you when you are human. I am joined at the hip with Christ, not any political party. The Christian conservatives you say are forever Trump is far from the truth. The Christian conservatives came to His camp very late in the political process after much debate. I think many are not sure this was the thing to as Trump shotgun splatter governing is hurting us all. Don't jump on part of God's children when all claim He is in their corner, He loves us all.
 
I see that inference more from our liberal brothers and sisters and that inference is usually followed by some epithet against Christians (or what they conceive a Christian or Christianity to be).

The religion is not left or right, no matter which political side you choose you are going to have to do some moral pretzel twisting to support them. I dated a Catholic girl in college who was fairly liberal on most things, she was also very anti-abortion. That was something she struggled with.

Crazed, curious about the fairly liberal Catholic girl you dated in college and her struggle with abortion.

Was her struggle with abortion on a personal or political level ?

Given she was very anti-abortion, I take it she would would never consider an abortion for herself. Was her struggle then about taking political action in favor of eliminating choice for others, or what ?
 
Crazed, curious about the fairly liberal Catholic girl you dated in college and her struggle with abortion.

Was her struggle with abortion on a personal or political level ?

Given she was very anti-abortion, I take it she would would never consider an abortion for herself. Was her struggle then about taking political action in favor of eliminating choice for others, or what ?

Her struggle was with being vehemently opposed to abortion when the Democrats were not (she was not pro-choice, she drew line at rape, incest, and life of mother) and also being an economic liberal. She thought the Democrats put forth an economic vision that was more focused on taking care of the less fortunate. So she had to weigh that whenever she voted. She was an interesting girl to date, we both challenged each other with our viewpoints.

(Addendum: You are correct that she was personally opposed to it for herself. I think her position was pretty in line with the current Pope).
 
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Good post Marvin. Sometimes the left gets over it’s skis when it equates Christians to evangelicals. The raging hypocrites are the evangelicals, not the Christians. My guess is that the percentage of Methodists that support Trump is much lower than the 80% of evangelicals that do. The majority of Christians decry divisive rhetoric and would support equal protection for LGBT and humane treatment for immigrants and refugees. If anything, we have learned the evangelicals have missed much of Jesus’ teachings about what it means to be a Christian.
So then we are a Christian nation. Cool.
 
That may be true. Bad is in the eye of the beholder and I'm really just wanting to imply "very different". Take whatever wording you want to make my words mean that "Evangelicals have different beliefs than many other Christian groups and because they tend toward being more outgoing their beliefs are often taken as de facto "Christian".

Have you sat at a restaurant next to a table that has a very loud member? Sometimes that is how I perceive the Evangelicals simply because they are more willing, heck, they more desire the spotlight. It may not be completely fair to them, but it certainly appears they get attention far more than most other Christian groups. Because I am seated at the table with the Evangelical, often their views are interpreted as mine.
You're missing an important point about many evangelicals.

To get to heaven, many of them are taught that they must "witness" their "faith" to the whole world, no matter how intrusive they are. They are taught that they shouldn't hide their faith "under a bushel" and to "let it shine." It's not that they are accidentally being too loud talking about their religion without realizing it -- they may be doing it on purpose so the whole restaurant is exposed to their "message." Their desire to go to a heaven (if you believe in that sort of thing) is a selfish motivation for their own benefit. In other words, they may be "witnessing" to you not to save your sorry ass from hell but to qualify their own ass for heaven.

That's why a friend of mine had to tactfully figure out what to say when a plumber he hired asked, "Have you ever been saved? Do you know Jesus?"

That's why I had to deal with doorknockers at 7 a.m. every Sunday for about a year, inviting me to attend their church an hour later, which was located about two blocks away. The same people kept coming even after I told them I wasn't interested.

If you hadn't been required to grow up in this world you might not have known what it is.
 
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You're missing an important point about many evangelicals.

To get to heaven, many of them are taught that they must "witness" their "faith" to the whole world, no matter how intrusive they are. They are taught that they shouldn't hide their faith "under a bushel" and to "let it shine." It's not that they are accidentally being too loud talking about their religion without realizing it -- they may be doing it on purpose so the whole restaurant is exposed to their "message." Their desire to go to a heaven (if you believe in that sort of thing) is a selfish motivation for their own benefit. In other words, they may be "witnessing" to you not to save your sorry ass from hell but to qualify their own ass for heaven.

Actually, real Christians should realize that they can never do enough evangelizing, or anything else, to get into heaven. They should realize that the concept of earning their way into heaven is a total misinterpretation of the Gospel. Instead of doing what is right in order to get into heaven, real Christians should do what is right because they are going to heaven, because of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, and their acceptance and faith in him. There is a huge difference between doing what is right to score points, and doing what is right out of love for God, and for your neighbor. The first is a calculating and selfish act. The second is selfless.

At least, that's how I see it.
 
Actually, real Christians should realize that they can never do enough evangelizing, or anything else, to get into heaven. They should realize that the concept of earning their way into heaven is a total misinterpretation of the Gospel. Instead of doing what is right in order to get into heaven, real Christians should do what is right because they are going to heaven, because of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, and their acceptance and faith in him. There is a huge difference between doing what is right to score points, and doing what is right out of love for God, and for your neighbor. The first is a calculating and selfish act. The second is selfless.

At least, that's how I see it.
It's actually even more perverse than that. Because of the underlying reliance on predestination ("election") in Protestantism, most of these people are taught that they have already been chosen by God, but that they will know they are among the chosen by their acts. So they aren't trying to earn their way to heaven as much as they are trying to prove to themselves (and others?) that they are already headed there.
 
It's actually even more perverse than that. Because of the underlying reliance on predestination ("election") in Protestantism, most of these people are taught that they have already been chosen by God, but that they will know they are among the chosen by their acts. So they aren't trying to earn their way to heaven as much as they are trying to prove to themselves (and others?) that they are already headed there.

I do believe there is a split between Presbyterians, who believe in predestination, and Methodist, who believe in free will (for example). The first group does not focus on evangelizing, because of their belief in the elect. The second does because of the Great Commission.
 
I haven’t seen any numbers yet, but I’m curious as to the white evangelical vote numbers for Hyde-Smith in Mississippi. Anyone want to bet that the number will be greater than 80% votes for her?
 
I do believe there is a split between Presbyterians, who believe in predestination, and Methodist, who believe in free will (for example). The first group does not focus on evangelizing, because of their belief in the elect. The second does because of the Great Commission.
This is a good point. Protestant traditions which follow Luther or Calvin (more strongly for Calvin) have a theological disposition toward predestination, but Wesley largely rejected that. Methodist views on free will more closely match those of Catholics and Orthodox than other Protestants.
 
Sometimes our conservative brothers and sisters try to infer that Christianity = conservative. That is far from the truth, and here is a great example.

For some time I have been tired of the way conservatives have tried to infer one must be conservative to be Christian. I am quite proud of what those Christians did. I would fully support my church offering sanctuary.

Remove politics from the equation, and examine the substance of the actions/statements of many of the self-identified ”Christians”. With respect to what they allow, endorse and support fully.

Thise things are a lot of things, but they’re sure as hell not “Christian”.

They're the worst kind of hypocrites- because they wrap themselves in religion, as a means to justify anything they want to justify. No amount of reason or truth will change their mind- because they feel that they’re carrying out god’s will. Meanwhile, all the things they claim to believe in are things that they’re actively straying from.

You can point out the inconsistencies all day- it just won’t matter. Somehow they’ll find a perverted way to justify them.

We’ve got a pretty good example of all of this on this very board.

Sad.
 
Sometimes our conservative brothers and sisters try to infer that Christianity = conservative. That is far from the truth, and here is a great example.

For some time I have been tired of the way conservatives have tried to infer one must be conservative to be Christian. I am quite proud of what those Christians did. I would fully support my church offering sanctuary.

I'm not sure if you're implying that the Citywell UMC congregation is liberal or that a conservative congregation would have acted differently or if no implication was intended. Regardless, the UMC Book of Discipline plainly supports the sanctuary given to Mr. Oliver-Bruno.

On The Rights of Immigrants
"We recognize, embrace, and affirm all persons, regardless of country of origin, as members of the family of God. We affirm the right of all persons to equal opportunities for employment, access to housing, health care, education, and freedom from social discrimination. We urge the Church and society to recognize the gifts, contributions, and struggles of those who are immigrants and to advocate for justice for all. We oppose immigration policies that separate family members from each other or that include detention of families with children, and we call on local churches to be in ministry with immigrant families."

- Book of Discipline, Social Principles, paragraph 162.H
Given the UMC's stated discipline, my takeaway is that the action taken was neither liberal or conservative. It was Methodist.
 
I'm not sure if you're implying that the Citywell UMC congregation is liberal or that a conservative congregation would have acted differently or if no implication was intended. Regardless, the UMC Book of Discipline plainly supports the sanctuary given to Mr. Oliver-Bruno.

On The Rights of Immigrants
"We recognize, embrace, and affirm all persons, regardless of country of origin, as members of the family of God. We affirm the right of all persons to equal opportunities for employment, access to housing, health care, education, and freedom from social discrimination. We urge the Church and society to recognize the gifts, contributions, and struggles of those who are immigrants and to advocate for justice for all. We oppose immigration policies that separate family members from each other or that include detention of families with children, and we call on local churches to be in ministry with immigrant families."

- Book of Discipline, Social Principles, paragraph 162.H
Given the UMC's stated discipline, my takeaway is that the action taken was neither liberal or conservative. It was Methodist.

Of all denominations, the one that I’ve found to be the most true to the spirit and actions of Jesus is the Methodist church. And I’ve been to several denominations over the years. The last three congregations we attended were Methodist.

My wife is a baptist preacher’s daughter. She’s also been to many different denominations of churches. And she agrees with me.

In general, organized religion has the power to do wonderful things. And sometimes it does. But, neither one of us goes to church regularly anymore. And we haven’t for a while. And there’s good reason for that. Too much drama and gossip, and people not devoting their energies to the right things.
 
I'm not sure if you're implying that the Citywell UMC congregation is liberal or that a conservative congregation would have acted differently or if no implication was intended. Regardless, the UMC Book of Discipline plainly supports the sanctuary given to Mr. Oliver-Bruno.

On The Rights of Immigrants
"We recognize, embrace, and affirm all persons, regardless of country of origin, as members of the family of God. We affirm the right of all persons to equal opportunities for employment, access to housing, health care, education, and freedom from social discrimination. We urge the Church and society to recognize the gifts, contributions, and struggles of those who are immigrants and to advocate for justice for all. We oppose immigration policies that separate family members from each other or that include detention of families with children, and we call on local churches to be in ministry with immigrant families."

- Book of Discipline, Social Principles, paragraph 162.H
Given the UMC's stated discipline, my takeaway is that the action taken was neither liberal or conservative. It was Methodist.

I am saying it does not fit the model of many of the conservative Evangelical movements. Methodists do not take the stand on this issue to be liberal or conservative, but the stand tends to align more with liberal thought.

Methodists cross the aisle, the "war" in the UMC over gay marriage and gay pastors is an example.
 
I really like Bill Maher but I disagree with his assertive atheist stance. Telling religious folks that they are stupid is not helpful. I’m highly skeptical about some core beliefs of Mormons; however, the Mormons I’ve met have been kind, principled and family oriented. They are the exact kind of people we want to have in our society.
Bill Maher is a drug addict. 'Nuf said.
 
I don't care what most people think of me but one thing I find that I really don't understand is how lots of people jump from disagreement to hate. For example, I don't agree with gay marriage so I've been told I hate them. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I don't think you should look down on them, discriminate against them, or treat them badly. I don't hate anyone....that's just not me. I don't hate Trump (like I think a lot on here do) but I sure as hell disagree with a lot of his actions and how he treats people.
 
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