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The Mississippi Law and My Time Machine

MyTeamIsOnTheFloor

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So the opinion says:

“The law at issue in this case, Mississippi’s Gestational Age Act, see Miss. Code Ann. §41–41–191 (2018), contains this central provision: “Except in a medical emergency or in the case of a severe fetal abnormality, a person shall not intentionally or knowingly perform . . . or induce an abortion of an unborn human being if the probable gestational age of the unborn human being has been determined to be greater than fifteen (15) weeks.” §4(b).

To support this Act, the legislature made a series of factubal findings. It began by noting that, at the time of enact- ment, only six countries besides the United States “permit[ted] nontherapeutic or elective abortion-on-demand after the twentieth week of gestation.”15 §2(a). The legislature then found that at 5 or 6 weeks’ gestational age an “unborn human being’s heart begins beating”; at 8 weeks the “unborn human being begins to move about in the womb”; at 9 weeks “all basic physiological functions are present”; at 10 weeks “vital organs begin to function,” and “[h]air, fin- gernails, and toenails . . . begin to form”; at 11 weeks “an unborn human being’s diaphragm is developing,” and he or she may “move about freely in the womb”; and at 12 weeks the “unborn human being” has “taken on ‘the human form’ in all relevant respects.” §2(b)(i) (quoting Gonzales v. Car- hart, 550 U. S. 124, 160 (2007)). It found that most abor- tions after 15 weeks employ “dilation and evacuation proce- dures which involve the use of surgical instruments to crush and tear the unborn child,” and it concluded that the “intentional commitment of such acts for nontherapeutic or elective reasons is a barbaric practice, dangerous for the maternal patient, and demeaning to the medical profes- sion.” §2(b)(i)(8).”

Clearly carefully crafted by years of legal wrangling and thought and planning. I will admit that I was surprised by the effort - my view of the typical Misssissippian was adversely affected by Mississippi Burning.

How do you fellas (both sides/all sides) see this statutory language now that Roe was overturned?

If you KNEW in advance Roe was dead, would you have accepted this law? It is neither “No, none, ever” or “yes, always.” What tweaks would have made you accept it? Or is “never” or “always” going to be the demanded extremes?

The provisions were discussed as the case awaited ruling, but time and events have a way of quickening the ultimate thoughts. (First lesson from my first appearance at a federal courthouse - “when you come here for your resolution, one side wins and one side loses. You want to talk in the hall for 10 minutes, or do you want my ruling?”)
 
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What constitutes a "medical emergency" needs to be better defined.

What's clear is that the Mississippi law need not have been deemed inconsistent with Roe, which from its very beginning was viewed as a first trimester option. Note below the headline from the NYT on the day that the Roe v Wade decision came down:

DxjEI9RWkAEVI9u.jpg
 
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What constitutes a "medical emergency" needs to be better defined.

What's clear is that the Mississippi law need not have been deemed inconsistent with Roe, which from its very beginning was viewed as a first trimester option. Note below the headline from the NYT on the day that the Roe v Wade decision came down:

DxjEI9RWkAEVI9u.jpg
LBJ and The Great Society. (Urp!)
Foreman stops Frazier!
GM recalls cars.
 
What constitutes a "medical emergency" needs to be better defined.

What's clear is that the Mississippi law need not have been deemed inconsistent with Roe, which from its very beginning was viewed as a first trimester option. Note below the headline from the NYT on the day that the Roe v Wade decision came down:

DxjEI9RWkAEVI9u.jpg
Roe was gone already. It got replaced basically by Casey which opened the floodgates to everything.

The politically smart thing to do is to probably push the Mississippi law on everyone. It is in line with popular opinion. I want to see it mostly gone...as in, there are only 3 reasons to have them: rape, incest, and very clearly defined health of the mother (which would not include most things that fall under the mental health umbrella that gets used now). To me it is a moral issue and not a political one.

If I were a politician right now, I would put in a first trimester cause and ban after that and then make people like me work with that shifted Overton window. I am not though, so I don't have to really play with the same set of rules.
 
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So the opinion says:

“The law at issue in this case, Mississippi’s Gestational Age Act, see Miss. Code Ann. §41–41–191 (2018), contains this central provision: “Except in a medical emergency or in the case of a severe fetal abnormality, a person shall not intentionally or knowingly perform . . . or induce an abortion of an unborn human being if the probable gestational age of the unborn human being has been determined to be greater than fifteen (15) weeks.” §4(b).

To support this Act, the legislature made a series of factubal findings. It began by noting that, at the time of enact- ment, only six countries besides the United States “permit[ted] nontherapeutic or elective abortion-on-demand after the twentieth week of gestation.”15 §2(a). The legislature then found that at 5 or 6 weeks’ gestational age an “unborn human being’s heart begins beating”; at 8 weeks the “unborn human being begins to move about in the womb”; at 9 weeks “all basic physiological functions are present”; at 10 weeks “vital organs begin to function,” and “[h]air, fin- gernails, and toenails . . . begin to form”; at 11 weeks “an unborn human being’s diaphragm is developing,” and he or she may “move about freely in the womb”; and at 12 weeks the “unborn human being” has “taken on ‘the human form’ in all relevant respects.” §2(b)(i) (quoting Gonzales v. Car- hart, 550 U. S. 124, 160 (2007)). It found that most abor- tions after 15 weeks employ “dilation and evacuation proce- dures which involve the use of surgical instruments to crush and tear the unborn child,” and it concluded that the “intentional commitment of such acts for nontherapeutic or elective reasons is a barbaric practice, dangerous for the maternal patient, and demeaning to the medical profes- sion.” §2(b)(i)(8).”

Clearly carefully crafted by years of legal wrangling and thought and planning. I will admit that I was surprised by the effort - my view of the typical Misssissippian was adversely affected by Mississippi Burning.

How do you fellas (both sides/all sides) see this statutory language now that Roe was overturned?

If you KNEW in advance Roe was dead, would you have accepted this law? It is neither “No, none, ever” or “yes, always.” What tweaks would have made you accept it? Or is “never” or “always” going to be the demanded extremes?

The provisions were discussed as the case awaited ruling, but time and events have a way of quickening the ultimate thoughts. (First lesson from my first appearance at a federal courthouse - “when you come here for your resolution, one side wins and one side loses. You want to talk in the hall for 10 minutes, or do you want my ruling?”)
It doesn't matter. The 15-week law was never intended to take effect. Instead, Mississippi will enforce its 2007 trigger law that bans virtually all abortions at any stage. I told you guys this was the plan all along.

 
Letting the issue be determined by states pushes the abortion question closer to "the people" which is closer to a democratic decision. If enough voters don't like the law put in place, they can vote out the politicians and vote in ones closer to what they want.
 
contrary to fake propaganda, virtually zero liberals want abortion on demand much after 15 wks, absent some newly found serious medical situation for fetus or mom.

those who don't want any exemption for the serious medical issue thing, have perverted liberal's views to lock out the serious medical exemptions too.

health of the mother will always be priority one for me.

leaving this for the states might not be the win for Pubs some think,

and states outlawing abortion altogether, will create serious unforeseen issues.

the big losers, will be low income women who will be forced to travel long distances, and can't.
 
the big losers, will be low income women who will be forced to actually control their partners, bodies, hormones and emotions before they have to decide, killing their babies due to their poor decisions is the correct thing to do.
That may be more in line with reality. (Underlined is my addition).
 
Last edited:
contrary to fake propaganda, virtually zero liberals want abortion on demand much after 15 wks, absent some newly found serious medical situation for fetus or mom.

those who don't want any exemption for the serious medical issue thing, have perverted liberal's views to lock out the serious medical exemptions too.

health of the mother will always be priority one for me.

leaving this for the states might not be the win for Pubs some think,

and states outlawing abortion altogether, will create serious unforeseen issues.

the big losers, will be low income women who will be forced to travel long distances, and can't.
This may be the first time in years that I have agreed with you. George Will said that the worst fear of a pro-life state legislator is the overturning of Roe Vs Wade and having the issue sent back to the states. Go to a pioneer cemetery and look at the graves of the father his three wives that all died in childbirth and all the little unmarked stones of the dead children.
 
That may be more in line with reality.

falsely making it look that i said that was waaayyy out of line, and crossed the line.

please edit it back to what i actually said.

when it's you who says what you did, don't falsely quote me as saying that.
 
falsely making it look that i said that was waaayyy out of line, and crossed the line.

please edit it back to what i actually said.

when it's you who says what you did, don't falsely quote me as saying that.
What? I really don't know what you are getting at here.
 
Roe was gone already. It got replaced basically by Casey which opened the floodgates to everything.

The politically smart thing to do is to probably push the Mississippi law on everyone. It is in line with popular opinion. I want to see it mostly gone...as in, there are only 3 reasons to have them: rape, incest, and very clearly defined health of the mother (which would not include most things that fall under the mental health umbrella that gets used now). To me it is a moral issue and not a political one.

If I were a politician right now, I would put in a first trimester cause and ban after that and then make people like me work with that shifted Overton window. I am not though, so I don't have to really play with the same set of rules.
Dumb. What does your wife think?
 
What? I really don't know what you are getting at here.

like hell you don't.

go back and look at the sht you quoted me as saying, that i absolutely didn't and never would say.

you said it yourself, then falsely said i was the one that did.

considering what was said, that crosses the line.

fix it.
 
Dumb. What does your wife think?
She thinks it should be banned except for rape and incest and that those types of incidents should have a pretty strict timeliness as well.

The idea that women are monolithically interested in keeping abortion around is demonstrably false.

You can disagree with my take all you like, just know that I have the same opinion of yours as you do mine.
 
like hell you don't.

go back and look at the sht you quoted me as saying, that i absolutely didn't and never would say.

you said it yourself, then falsely said i was the one that did.

considering what was said, that crosses the line.

fix it.
I honestly didn't and had not went back to look. Now that I have, yea you are right. It was my original intention to identify my addition, but obviously I had failed to do that. It was not intention.
 
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