The Ignorance of the Democrats and Left

glmiu11

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Maybe you think Trump "leadership" would have been well-received by Cuomo and De Blasio, but I don't think so.
Cuomo and DeBlasio failed miserably. That’s not an argument that the leader of our country was incapable of success. Typical Trumper.

Edit: at least Cuomo has made a difference since.
The voters are going to kick DeBlasio out.
 
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mcmurtry66

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Biden just said that he would shut the country down if scientists recommended it and it would control the spread. I don’t think the majority of folks support a shutdown at this point. But I have no idea. Thoughts? I suspect it will be a pivotal election concern. Both ways.
 

outside shooter

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By Jan 21, 2021, the US death toll will be about 350,000. A shutdown then is kind of like slamming on your brakes in mid-air, after you sped off a cliff, Thelma & Louise style.
 

CO. Hoosier

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Cuomo and DeBlasio failed miserably. That’s not an argument that the leader of our country was incapable of success. Typical Trumper.

Edit: at least Cuomo has made a difference since.
The voters are going to kick DeBlasio out.

Trump has no authority to issue the orders you think he can, short of a marshal law declaration. That wasn’t gonna happen.
 

CO. Hoosier

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Biden just said that he would shut the country down if scientists recommended it and it would control the spread. I don’t think the majority of folks support a shutdown at this point. But I have no idea. Thoughts? I suspect it will be a pivotal election concern. Both ways.

One of the problems is giving priority to “scientists”. Even if science suggests we must shut down to control the spread there are other important considerations that could take priority. We can’t have the cure worse than the disease.

That said, treatment protocols are quickly advancing. The scary part of a positive test should diminish, but Biden and the Democrats have staked their election future on continued fear and accompanying chaos. In fact, more cases and recoveries should be seen as a good thing.

I think the October surprise will be a vaccine.
 
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brianiu

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Biden just said that he would shut the country down if scientists recommended it and it would control the spread. I don’t think the majority of folks support a shutdown at this point. But I have no idea. Thoughts? I suspect it will be a pivotal election concern. Both ways.

I don’t think the President has that power. From what I’ve read, that lies with the state. I would like to know the Constitutional justification for this. I know of none but I am not a lawyer.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/consti...is-the-presidents-authority-during-a-pandemic
 
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mcmurtry66

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One of the problems is giving priority to “scientists”. Even if science suggests we must shut down to control the spread there are other important considerations that could take priority. We can’t have the cure worse than the disease.

That said, treatment protocols are quickly advancing. The scary part of a positive test should diminish, but Biden and the Democrats have staked their election future on continued fear and accompanying chaos. In fact, more cases and recoveries should be seen as a good thing.

I think the October surprise will be a vaccine.
I think that’ll be the surprise too. But unless it’s actually in Walgreens people will be skeptical.
 

hoot1

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One of the problems is giving priority to “scientists”. Even if science suggests we must shut down to control the spread there are other important considerations that could take priority. We can’t have the cure worse than the disease.

That said, treatment protocols are quickly advancing. The scary part of a positive test should diminish, but Biden and the Democrats have staked their election future on continued fear and accompanying chaos. In fact, more cases and recoveries should be seen as a good thing.

I think the October surprise will be a vaccine.

Just because Democrats in general appear to be more concerned about the pandemic than Republicans, according to some polling, doesn't mean they arrive at this outlook strictly because of politics. Nor does it mean Democrats aren't rooting for an end to the pandemic just to make Trump and Republicans look bad.

Think about the above. Is it reasonable to have a great fear about something while at the same time not wanting the reason for the fear to end?

So who is playing politics here? Those who claim their political opponents don't want a successful outcome regarding the pandemic, or those who claim our president has done a poor job in dealing with the pandemic ?

The answer to this question is that many on both sides want to use the pandemic for political purposes.

The sad part is that we aren't fighting this threat together. Having said that, some will say the threat is being exaggerated for political purposes.

When a nation cannot agree among themselves on much of anything, we may have a house too divided to make our democracy work for the general welfare.
 
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glmiu11

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Biden just said that he would shut the country down if scientists recommended it and it would control the spread. I don’t think the majority of folks support a shutdown at this point. But I have no idea. Thoughts? I suspect it will be a pivotal election concern. Both ways.
I’m for it. But if the scientists said it was wrong I wouldn’t be. I like it that Biden has some guts. Now he needs to say that these riots have to stop.
 

glmiu11

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Trump has no authority to issue the orders you think he can, short of a marshal law declaration. That wasn’t gonna happen.
Not true. I know what’s available to him. Super condescending. He’s tried to do nothing but stir problems.
 

CO. Hoosier

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Just because Democrats in general appear to be more concerned about the pandemic than Republicans, according to some polling, doesn't mean they arrive at this outlook strictly because of politics. Nor does it mean Democrats aren't rooting for an end to the pandemic just to make Trump and Republicans look bad.

Think about the above. Is it reasonable to have a great fear about something while at the same time not wanting the reason for the fear to end?

So who is playing politics here? Those who claim their political opponents don't want a successful outcome regarding the pandemic, or those who claim our president has done a poor job in dealing with the pandemic ?

The answer to this question is that many on both sides want to use the pandemic for political purposes.

The sad part is that we aren't fighting this threat together. Having said that, some will say the threat is being exaggerated for political purposes.

When a nation cannot agree among themselves on much of anything, we may have a house too divided to make our democracy work for the general welfare.

I get the impression that Biden and the Democrats sense a strong political opportunity with keeping the public cranked up about Covid and blaming Trump for it. Biden doubled down in that last night. They believe if the voters grow less concerned about Covid that will be bad news for them because that Trump bash will be less effective. I think they are right
 

glmiu11

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I get the impression that Biden and the Democrats sense a strong political opportunity with keeping the public cranked up about Covid and blaming Trump for it. Biden doubled down in that last night. They believe if the voters grow less concerned about Covid that will be bad news for them because that Trump bash will be less effective. I think they are right
The prediction is now that over 300,000 will be dead by December. I suppose that’s overblown.
 

glmiu11

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I wonder how that will differ from rioting and the Republican convention?
It is sad though. I watch the news mix. It lets me switch back-and-forth from MSNBC, CNN and Fox news. Fox never covers the virus. The other two never cover the riots. It gives the people that say “fake news” a leg to stand on. The problem is those people should look everywhere for their news instead of making excuses not to.
 
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IUclover

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I’m for it. But if the scientists said it was wrong I wouldn’t be. I like it that Biden has some guts. Now he needs to say that these riots have to stop.

Replace “guts” with integrity. That’s absent in the Republican Party and even more in their leadership. I feel like that used to mean something to everyone.
 

mcmurtry66

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Repub party is devoid of integrity, but I don’t see it with the Dems either. With the crime and destruction that’s followed the protests I see silence and cowardice and pandering on the part of Dems in failing to address it in any meaningful way. We’ll see if Harris accepts the charge on that front going forward.
 

DrHoops

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What about the clusters? Many deaths flow from nursing or assisted care situations, prisons and jails, meat packing houses, crowded mass transit, bars, or other easily identified infection clusters. Contact tracing probably helps in general community spread, but do we know how many cases or deaths are involved with that? We know where the clusters are, yet we didn't address those issues, and in some cases made them worse through mistaken notions of nondiscrimination against infected elders. Not addressing the clusters is our biggest error, but I don't think that is Trump's fault because one-size-fits-all doesn't work. Then we have the stupidity of not even allowing social distancing and masking in a large church sanctuary but we look the other way for protests. As for the rest of us, information is key and I am generally satisfied with the information to manage my own risk.

Co. We are the absolute BOTTOM OF THE BARREL at handling Covid-19. 1/4 of the cases are in America and we have 4% of the world's population. Trump didn't want to wear a mask, because he thought it made him look stupider than his fake orange tan and bird's nest hair, so he fought it and made things political. He can't be overshadowed by Fauci, so he sidelines him. Anyone who says something that doesn't match up with Trump's "gut feeling" is sidelined. There are currently only a handful of countries in the world that will allow US citizens in their countries. Most are in the Caribbean and Central America. It's a disaster on every level.
 

CO. Hoosier

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The prediction is now that over 300,000 will be dead by December. I suppose that’s overblown.

Do you deny that Biden and the Dems Are going to use Covid as a way to attack Trump? Of those 300k, how many are because Trump didn’t do whatever you think he should have done?
 

outside shooter

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Do you deny that Biden and the Dems Are going to use Covid as a way to attack Trump? Of those 300k, how many are because Trump didn’t do whatever you think he should have done?
4.5% of the world's population... let's say the USA, with even average leadership and a plan, had 4.5% of the world's deaths. That leaves about 80% of the death toll to amazing ineptitude.
 

82hoosier

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???

If you vote for Trump, you likely are white.

You are also
probably male,
probably didn't go to college*,
probably think science is conspiring against you, and
probably have had voluntary away-from-work social interactions with persons of color with a lesser frequency than solar eclipses are viewable from your backyard.

*if you did, it was a public college in a "red state"

Not many are going to fit every aspect of that profile, but I'd expect a strong p value for each correlation.

edit: P values have to do with math, so you had better skip that part...

53% of white women voted for Trump. To me that's the most confusing statistic
I don’t think the President has that power. From what I’ve read, that lies with the state. I would like to know the Constitutional justification for this. I know of none but I am not a lawyer.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/consti...is-the-presidents-authority-during-a-pandemic

First time around Trump let the states make the decisions and that worked pretty well didn't it?
 

brianiu

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First time around Trump let the states make the decisions and that worked pretty well didn't it?

He didn’t want to let them. He wanted to force states that shut down to open back up but he does not have that power. The same would apply to Biden. Democrats argued vociferously that shut downs were up to the states. I agree.

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/14/8340...-have-the-authority-to-order-states-to-reopen

President Trump at a briefing Monday night made an assertion that likely would have surprised the framers of the U.S. Constitution: that as president, his authority is "total" and that he has the power to order states — which have told businesses to close and people to remain at home to limit the spread of the coronavirus — to reopen.

"The president of the United States calls the shots," Trump said. "They can't do anything without the approval of the president of the United States."

Trump said there were "numerous provisions" in the Constitution that give him that power but he didn't name any.

"When somebody's the president of the United States, the authority is total," he said.

But Trump's assertion is simply without merit or grounding in the Constitution, legal experts say.

"The President's powers are not 'total,' " Susan Low Bloch, a professor of constitutional law at Georgetown Law School, said in an email. "Our government is a government of divided powers. We call it 'separation of powers' with 'checks and balances.' "

The president has the powers articulated in Article II of the Constitution, she says. "But the Congress, the judiciary, and the states also have powers — as articulated in the rest of the Constitution (particularly in Article I, Article III, and the 10th Amendment respectively). The President is not a king. His powers are broad, but they are definitely not 'total.' "

"It's so plain and obvious it's not even debatable," added Kathleen Bergin, a professor at Cornell Law School.

"Trump has no authority to ease social distancing, or to open schools or private businesses," she said. "These are matters for states to decide under their power to promote public health and welfare, a power guaranteed by the 10th Amendment to the Constitution. Despite what he claims, no president has absolute authority over domestic policy, and he certainly has no power to override the type of measures that have been taken across the country that have proved successful in flattening the curve."

Illinois Gov. J.B. Pritzker, a Democrat, told NPR's Morning Edition Tuesday: "The reality is that the president does not have the authority to tell the states what to do in this regard. We put the executive orders in place. We're the ones who are responsible for the safety and health of the people of our states."

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, also a Democrat, said on MSNBC's Morning Joe: "The president basically declared himself King Trump, right? And all that annoying federal-state back and forth our Founding Fathers went through, he just disregarded that."

Cuomo vowed to challenge in court any presidential order to reopen the state against his will.

Later Tuesday, Cuomo said he doesn't want to fight with the president. And Trump himself said his decision about easing restrictions "is going to be done in conjunction with governors."

Bradley Moss, a Washington attorney who specializes in national security law, said, "Quite simply, there is no provision that gives a president 'total' authority, and particularly none in the context of a public health crisis."

Moss said the Constitution delegates most public health authorities to the states, not the federal government. The president can declare national emergencies, Moss says, which Trump did on March 13, and even designate select groups for quarantine, but none of his authorities permit him to dictate how entire states open or close.

"President Trump is gaslighting us," Moss said, "nothing more."

Cornell's Bergin said the president does have some additional powers, for instance to lift international travel restrictions and to issue directives to the military or federal agencies. And Congress could provide states with financial incentives to change course, though it's doubtful lawmakers would agree to that at this stage.

"Could Trump try to flex some muscle here? Sure," Bergin said. "But he doesn't get constitutional authority simply by claiming it. What he tries to do and what he's authorized by the Constitution to do are two different things."

Polly J. Price, a professor of law and global health at the Emory University School of Law, says the Supreme Court denied the president "this kind of authority" in a 1952 case, when it ruled against President Harry Truman, who was trying to shut down the steel industry to avert a nationwide steelworkers strike.

"The order required the secretary of commerce to seize and operate most of the steel mills. The Supreme Court struck it down as beyond the powers of the president, despite the claim that it was a matter of national security," Price said.

She added that Congress may have the authority to reopen the economy under the Constitution's Commerce Clause.

But "Congress is given this regulatory power, not the president," Price noted. "Congress could delegate to the president the determination of when a 'reopening' should occur, either regionally or nationwide. But I am not aware of any legislation that already gives the president that authority."

 

DrHoops

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Do you deny that Biden and the Dems Are going to use Covid as a way to attack Trump? Of those 300k, how many are because Trump didn’t do whatever you think he should have done?

Why on Earth shouldn't they? Every other nation on the planet has handled this better than the U.S. Trump is completely incompetent and is not up to the job. That's just a fact that I hope will be clear.
 

TommyCracker

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Quite a bit of difference. I don’t see how the GOP can tag Biden with the riots the way the Dems can tag Trump with Covid.

You're not paying attention, it's pretty much the base of their campaign.

The convention will be a majority of radical left is bringing anarchy.

Yes, the dems are being careful to go after Trump because, duh, they think there is a large base of Republicans who are sick and tired of being represented by him.

You don't get those voters by calling them disingenuous morons. You get them by playing to their emotions that country is bigger than party.

And lastly of course dems are going to rip Trump's ass for his handling of Covid. It's a cold blank indictment of his incompetence as a leader.

It is what it is. He accepts no responsibility. It will just magically go away. Let's hold back relief because it's hitting blue states and they don't like me so we can use this in the election. I'm putting Pence in charge. It's another hoax. Wearing a mask means you don't support me. This miracle cure will work. By July we'll be back to normal. I know we put open up rules in place and we haven't met them but we need to open up anyway. I'm putting together a strategy that will be beautiful (and then never mentions it again). I told them to slow the testing down because you're going to find more cases!

Just a absolute clown show of leadership which unsurprisingly ranks us as one of the worst responders in the world....even though we got it last and had a front seat preview to what it does.

There's a reason there was a travel ban against us by most every country in the world.

So yeah, that display of ineptitude is going to be a big part of the campaign against Trump.

What's funny is that's just one of many examples. Unfortunately it's the one that's causing needless pain and suffering.

Even if it goes away tomorrow it doesn't change how he was a deer in headlights.
 

TommyCracker

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Sorry if already posted but Bloomberg was pretty straight to the point in his speech.

He basically makes a job performance case on Trump from one independent billionaire to another.

Talks about Trumps claims vs the data and also his tax cuts for the 1%, like Bloomberg and Trump himself.

 
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Cortez88

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I get the impression that Biden and the Democrats sense a strong political opportunity with keeping the public cranked up about Covid and blaming Trump for it. Biden doubled down in that last night. They believe if the voters grow less concerned about Covid that will be bad news for them because that Trump bash will be less effective. I think they are right

Hammering home that the leader of the country is a terrible leader and doesn’t care that 175,000 Americans are dead is a political strategy. And an obvious one. The fact that Covid exists is just reality.
 
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bawlmer

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Hammering home that the leader of the country is a terrible leader and doesn’t care that 175,000 Americans are dead is a political strategy. And an obvious one. The fact that Covid exists is just reality.

The failure of the President to lead an effective response to the pandemic is the most relevant issue of the this election. He's had his chance. Next man up.
 

82hoosier

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The failure of the President to lead an effective response to the pandemic is the most relevant issue of the this election. He's had his chance. Next man up.
I wouldn't dismiss the exploding federal deficit, the denial of climate change, losing the respect of our allies around the world, the decisions to essentially leave NATO and the World Health Organization, the 20,000 plus lies, Mexico building the wall, and all the huge tax breaks that went to the most wealthy Americans. Oh, and all those jobs he brought back from overseas.

What does everybody think about his thoughts about trading Puerto Rico as well as three million Americans for Greenland?
 

Stuffshot

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The failure of the President to lead an effective response to the pandemic is the most relevant issue of the this election. He's had his chance. Next man up.
8e2ffc910278a263f93c50447447531d.jpg
 

bawlmer

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I wouldn't dismiss the exploding federal deficit, the denial of climate change, losing the respect of our allies around the world, the decisions to essentially leave NATO and the World Health Organization, the 20,000 plus lies, Mexico building the wall, and all the huge tax breaks that went to the most wealthy Americans. Oh, and all those jobs he brought back from overseas.

What does everybody think about his thoughts about trading Puerto Rico as well as three million Americans for Greenland?

That list reflects the same short-sighted, reactionary approach to the job that has failed us so miserably with COVID. But it's COVID that has really blown-up in his face.
 
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CO. Hoosier

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I am sure the St Louis couple have a speaking spot at the RNC to discuss the UAE-Israel deal.

The Trump commercials lately sure tagged Biden on the riots,

C’mon man! Nuance! You asked about the difference between Covid and riots. The difference is obvious. Campaign advertising is a totally different issue. The riots are seen as a Democratic failure. The pandemic is seen as a Trump failure.
 

mcmurtry66

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I am sure the St Louis couple have a speaking spot at the RNC to discuss the UAE-Israel deal.

The Trump commercials lately sure tagged Biden on the riots,
They have been invited to talk and last I heard were going to do so via zoom from Stl. That was earlier this week. Mark furhman has a slot. They found a witness to the guy who ate that rotten bat in China as well as a witness to the lab leak - but haven’t decided who they’re going with yet. It’s fluid. David Duke has a slot. The days will vacillate between the China king kung fu flu and scary rabid blacks heading to the burbs

But so far no celebs so I’ll still prefer it to the dnc...although there’s talk of Roseanne Barr- so that too is fluid.
 

Marvin the Martian

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C’mon man! Nuance! You asked about the difference between Covid and riots. The difference is obvious. Campaign advertising is a totally different issue. The riots are seen as a Democratic failure. The pandemic is seen as a Trump failure.

Hmm, so all the complaints about the governor's of Florida and Georgia being COVIDiots are really just attacks on Trump?

The president has long been considered the head of the party. So yes, some of the sins of the party make their way to the president. If you do not believe the president is the head of the party, why did some states cancel Republican primaries even though he had 2 challengers?

The GOP has a vested interest in scaring people that Antifa is on their way to rural America to kill and loot. There is NO difference in an attempt to spread fear. Rioting is way down. But I will bet you that more people will die today and tomorrow from COVID than the number of homes and businesses looted in rioting.

So which one is a more legitimate fear?
 

Bulk VanderHuge

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The Southern Sun
Hmm, so all the complaints about the governor's of Florida and Georgia being COVIDiots are really just attacks on Trump?

The president has long been considered the head of the party. So yes, some of the sins of the party make their way to the president. If you do not believe the president is the head of the party, why did some states cancel Republican primaries even though he had 2 challengers?

The GOP has a vested interest in scaring people that Antifa is on their way to rural America to kill and loot. There is NO difference in an attempt to spread fear. Rioting is way down. But I will bet you that more people will die today and tomorrow from COVID than the number of homes and businesses looted in rioting.

So which one is a more legitimate fear?
Nuance, brah!
 
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