The Ignorance of the Democrats and Left

INRanger27

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LOL. That’s title is mild compared to standard fare around here. At least there is data.
Since you’re so into data, I’m sure you’ll accept the finding shown that overall, Fox News viewers are more uninformed than those that watch other networks.
 

ribbont

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Mar 23, 2006
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outside shooter

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Trump is unfit. So is Biden. Both are unworthy. But one belongs to a party that protects the unborn. The other, not so much.
How many unborn has Trump saved? How many abortions would you guess that Don has personally paid for, over the years?
 

ribbont

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How many unborn has Trump saved? How many abortions would you guess that Don has personally paid for, over the years?

As usual, reading comprehension is difficult for you. I am not surprised. The key word is party.

Condemn violence yet by Keese Love, yet? Or are you still holding out in hopes the victim is somehow, some way a Trump supporter? I know you hope the guy loves Trump so you can be thankful he was beaten.
 

CO. Hoosier

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Since you’re so into data, I’m sure you’ll accept the finding shown that overall, Fox News viewers are more uninformed than those that watch other networks.

Of corse I’ve seen that. That data is linked regularly here. I also know those kinds of studies usually are highly dependent on the issues tested.
 

cosmickid

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Oct 23, 2009
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Some people pay more attention to nonsense than I do. On the list of what I was looking for from the administration, yapping about Lysol is way down the list.

Where does pandemic preparedness rank on your list of what you expected? Are you a YUGE proponent of the wall- to the point where you agree with Trump that sacrifices in the area of pandemic preparedness (a concern of the entire populace) should be allowed in order to divert the funds to his and his supporters' pet project- the wall...?

Not only did Trump make the cuts in critical areas of preparedness from what Bush and Obama had put into place. But in order to justify his requests to make cuts in the budget, he used the argument that Obama had done such a good job preparing that the cuts were justified. Then he and lying Kayleigh both tried to shift blame to Obama and started spreading the unmitigated lie that Obama had "left the cupboard bare". The exact opposite of what Trump had previously argued...

No idea why you keep trying to gaslight for trump's actions after the COVID era began. His dereliction of duty in the preceding 3 yrs is enough to condemn him for, all on its own. The reality is that practically anyone would have followed the playbook and implemented the control measures the playbook called for from the outset. It almost sounds ridiculous to say, but the idea that Trump refused to follow the recommendations of the playbook because it came from Obama is beyond credible...It's exactly the kind of behavior you'd expect from him...
 

cosmickid

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Of corse I’ve seen that. That data is linked regularly here. I also know those kinds of studies usually are highly dependent on the issues tested.

Dude, you linked a study from 2013 talking about how liberals were more susceptible to depression as if it was a current study. How reliable is that 7 yr old "research"?
 

CO. Hoosier

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Where does pandemic preparedness rank on your list of what you expected? Are you a YUGE proponent of the wall- to the point where you agree with Trump that sacrifices in the area of pandemic preparedness (a concern of the entire populace) should be allowed in order to divert the funds to his and his supporters' pet project- the wall...?

Not only did Trump make the cuts in critical areas of preparedness from what Bush and Obama had put into place. But in order to justify his requests to make cuts in the budget, he used the argument that Obama had done such a good job preparing that the cuts were justified. Then he and lying Kayleigh both tried to shift blame to Obama and started spreading the unmitigated lie that Obama had "left the cupboard bare". The exact opposite of what Trump had previously argued...

No idea why you keep trying to gaslight for trump's actions after the COVID era began. His dereliction of duty in the preceding 3 yrs is enough to condemn him for, all on its own. The reality is that practically anyone would have followed the playbook and implemented the control measures the playbook called for from the outset. It almost sounds ridiculous to say, but the idea that Trump refused to follow the recommendations of the playbook because it came from Obama is beyond credible...It's exactly the kind of behavior you'd expect from him...

Trump appointed the Covid-19 task force about a week after the first US case. He stopped foreign Travel from China a day or so later. Biden was among the critics of that move. All this happened during the senate impeachment trial. What playbook are you talking about?
 
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TommyCracker

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Trump is unfit. So is Biden. Both are unworthy. But one belongs to a party that protects the unborn. The other, not so much.

Not wanting to hijack the thread but I always ask and legitimately wonder if the party the protects the unborn actually has a plan to help protect that stance other than basic slut shaming.

Are you going to make the father financially accountable automatically to where only by death can he get out of his financial responsibility?

Are you going to better fund preventative measures like planned parenthood?

Are you going to fund the increase in foster care and adoption services/options?

Are you going to fund and guarantee the health care of the mother through the birth?

Or are you just going to wag your finger, call her a slut that should have kept her whore legs closed and walk away very well knowing that rich girls will still have that option as they can afford to go out of country for one (and will).

So far in my lifetime on this conversation the answer has been slut shaming and Jesus.

That's not good enough.
 

CO. Hoosier

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Dude, you linked a study from 2013 talking about how liberals were more susceptible to depression as if it was a current study. How reliable is that 7 yr old "research"?

Dude, Newton published his laws of motion more than 300 years ago and they are still reliable.
 

Marvin the Martian

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It is true Dems are n Dems were much less likely to believe it was created in a Chinese lab. https://today.yougov.com/topics/pol...hinese-lab-make-virus-nearly-half-americans-t

We have not tended to believe a vaccine is a trick by Gates to implant trackers. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ro...es-coronavirus-vaccines-tracking-1004415/amp/

It also turns out a majority of Republicans say they will not get vaccinated. Just pointing out that disinformation is pretty bad, full stop.

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/202...-would-reject-COVID-19-vaccine/7681596796789/
 

i'vegotwinners

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Dec 1, 2006
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Just because you’ve presented more facts doesn’t take away from what you’ve preached. Trust me. I’m as guilty as you are in that.


please quote exactly what i've preached that i should feel guilty about.

imo if what i have preached would have been followed, deaths would be a fraction of what they now are, the economy would be far better, college classes or playing games with limited or no fans wouldn't be an issue, and we would be much much further along with herd immunity.. (and if there is no herd immunity, a vaccine isn't going to solve things).

and don't quote or refer to half of what i have pushed for without also quoting or referring the other half as well, as with what i've pushed for, you can't do one half without the other, it doesn't work that way..
 

glmiu11

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please quote exactly what i've preached that i should feel guilty about.

imo if what i have preached would have been followed, deaths would be a fraction of what they now are, the economy would be far better, college classes or playing games with limited or no fans wouldn't be an issue, and we would be much much further along with herd immunity.. (and if there is no herd immunity, a vaccine isn't going to solve things).

and don't quote or refer to half of what i have pushed for without also quoting or referring the other half as well, as with what i've pushed for, you can't do one half without the other, it doesn't work that way..
I’m not saying you should be guilty for anything. In fact I wish I hadn’t gotten involved.
Your plan seems to be to separate people from their families and I think that’s been done already. You want the youth to go about their ways and you want the adults to go about their ways. And you want anybody who wants to assume the risk to go ahead and do that. And I think that’s what life is anyway.
I can’t imagine that you want to go all into it again, but you’re welcome to. I’m just telling you what my take on what you said is. And it seems like it’s the take that others have gathered as well.
 

Marvin the Martian

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I’m not saying you should be guilty for anything. In fact I wish I hadn’t gotten involved.
Your plan seems to be to separate people from their families and I think that’s been done already. You want the youth to go about their ways and you want the adults to go about their ways. And you want anybody who wants to assume the risk to go ahead and do that. And I think that’s what life is anyway.
I can’t imagine that you want to go all into it again, but you’re welcome to. I’m just telling you what my take on what you said is. And it seems like it’s the take that others have gathered as well.

I imagine we could take the 4 Kroger stores in Bloomington and make 1 for under 20. Only under 20 can shop or work there, another one for under 40, another 4 under 60, and the last for over 60. But I'm not sure what we do with only one WalMart. Or what we do in other businesses where kids and older people work side-by-side. Maybe Cook could go to 1st shift for people under 40 and 2nd shift for people over 40? I have no idea what to do if they need only one shift though.

I guess we could take doctors who are under 30 and restrict them to only seeing patients under 30.

But what do we do for people with high risk who are younger? Do they get a card to allow them into the old people Kroger, or do they have to risk going to the young person Kroger?

All this is to say, how do you run two completely separate societies that almost never interact with one another in the exact same physical space.
 

i'vegotwinners

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I’m not saying you should be guilty for anything. In fact I wish I hadn’t gotten involved.
Your plan seems to be to separate people from their families and I think that’s been done already. You want the youth to go about their ways and you want the adults to go about their ways. And you want anybody who wants to assume the risk to go ahead and do that. And I think that’s what life is anyway.
I can’t imagine that you want to go all into it again, but you’re welcome to. I’m just telling you what my take on what you said is. And it seems like it’s the take that others have gathered as well.

don't summarize what you THINK i said, go find what i actually said on my 2 (3) universes posts, so we can discuss what i actually said, and not just the parts you remember.

and just as i said you would, you gave only your take on half of what i said, and left out the other half, when the half you left out entirely is absolutely fundamental to the plan.

possibly i'll expound and expand on what i've pushed for soon, so you might want to hold off for now, and take things on when i do, and exactly what i'm pushing for is laid out in front of you word for word, for you and others to debate and pick apart.
 
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glmiu11

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I imagine we could take the 4 Kroger stores in Bloomington and make 1 for under 20. Only under 20 can shop or work there, another one for under 40, another 4 under 60, and the last for over 60. But I'm not sure what we do with only one WalMart. Or what we do in other businesses where kids and older people work side-by-side. Maybe Cook could go to 1st shift for people under 40 and 2nd shift for people over 40? I have no idea what to do if they need only one shift though.

I guess we could take doctors who are under 30 and restrict them to only seeing patients under 30.

But what do we do for people with high risk who are younger? Do they get a card to allow them into the old people Kroger, or do they have to risk going to the young person Kroger?

All this is to say, how do you run two completely separate societies that almost never interact with one another in the exact same physical space.
You can’t. We’ve needed a national response from the start.
 

glmiu11

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don't summarize what you THINK i said, go find what i actually said on my 2 (3) universes posts, so we can discuss what i actually said, and not just the parts you remember.

and just as i said you would, you gave only your take on half of what i said, and left out the other half, when the half you left out entirely is absolutely fundamental to the plan.
Come on man. I’m not the enemy here.
 

glmiu11

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as i just put in my edit to the post you quoted, i'll try to expound and expand on my plan soon, so we can debate and discuss exactly what my thoughts are, in full, word for word.
Ok. But go play catch with someone you love first. You need a hug man.
 
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Stuffshot

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Trump appointed the Covid-19 task force about a week after the first US case. He stopped foreign Travel from China a day or so later. Biden was among the critics of that move. All this happened during the senate impeachment trial. What playbook are you talking about?
Trump's restrictions on travel China were about 1-31-20.

https://www.westernjournal.com/trump-bans-travel-china-orders-1st-quarantine-50-years/

The same day, positive cases were confirmed in Italy and, by March 1, Covid had spread to all parts of Italy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Italy

Trump should have seen it spreading in Europe and should have taken action, but he didn't ban travel from Europe until March 31.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/12/trump-bans-travel-from-europe-here-what-you-need-to-know.html

Throughout that entire time period you referred to, Trump and Pence gave inconsistent messages about the administration's plans to oppose Covid and Trump repeatedly contradicted, undercut and insulted the task force. Trump then started claiming he had already brought Covid under control and that it would be gone by April (i.e. gone only one day after he banned travel from Europe).

i agree with you -- there are no signs that Trump had a playbook.
 
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outside shooter

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Ah . . . .If I don't vote for Biden I'm not white. Got it.
???

If you vote for Trump, you likely are white.

You are also
probably male,
probably didn't go to college*,
probably think science is conspiring against you, and
probably have had voluntary away-from-work social interactions with persons of color with a lesser frequency than solar eclipses are viewable from your backyard.

*if you did, it was a public college in a "red state"

Not many are going to fit every aspect of that profile, but I'd expect a strong p value for each correlation.

edit: P values have to do with math, so you had better skip that part...
 
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T.M.P.

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Trump appointed the Covid-19 task force about a week after the first US case. He stopped foreign Travel from China a day or so later. Biden was among the critics of that move. All this happened during the senate impeachment trial. What playbook are you talking about?
more lies ...
 

Bulk VanderHuge

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The Southern Sun
Hey, dmb, I asked in another thread, so maybe you missed it. Since you are the "gaffe" experts here, and I didn't get a chance to see the Biden acceptance speech yet, would you please list all the embarrassing mistakes he made last night? Did he fall off the stage? Drool on his notes? Seem disoriented? Repeat himself before trailing off? Ask where his World's Fair spoon was? Start singing, "The Old Gray Mare"? Have trouble descending any ramps? Use two hands to drink his water?

What have you got?
 

cosmickid

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Trump appointed the Covid-19 task force about a week after the first US case. He stopped foreign Travel from China a day or so later. Biden was among the critics of that move. All this happened during the senate impeachment trial. What playbook are you talking about?

Biden op-ed of 1-27 discussing impending PANDEMIC, and Trump's cuts to preparedness...
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...us-less-prepared-joe-biden-column/4581710002/

Biden tweet of 10-25-19 regarding previous day's WAPO article on study rating each country on disaster preparedness...On that same day, Trump tweeted complaining about the iphone's revision of the HOME button...

Imo, these links are important because they destroy the narrative (employed by Trump and others) that NO ONE could have known what was coming or at least been better prepared and ready to implement the necessary measures earlier


The "China Travel ban" was nothing more than a xenophobic talking point. The virus was primarily transported to the US via people travelling from Europe who had been infected by their fellow countrymen (esp Spain and Italy) who had returned from VISITING China. There was no ban on European flights, or US citizens returning from Europe or China.

There was also no screening of incoming flights at the airport. That and contact tracing were fundamental elements instituted in places like Singapore and S Korea, who both started off with significantly more cases than the US but got things under control much more quickly and efficiently...

Countries that share a land border with China and are far closer than US cities have literally millions of fewer cases. Laos for instance...

Location Cases Recovered Deaths
Laos 22 19 0

US 5.61 M 2.85 175K

Just pointing out that proximity to China and Chinese citizens is not really a huge factor. Vientiane Laos is a city of 820,000 people, 6 hrs (1138 miles) from Wuhan via China Air. 3 or 4 flights daily.

Bloomington is nearly 7500 miles from Wuhan separated by a vast ocean and about 1/2 a continent. Monroe Co has had 827 cases and 39 deaths. The virus originated in China, but Chinese citizens have not been the ones spreading it...

Bragging about banning travel from Chinese tourists and "saving thousands of US lives" in the process is basically hot air.

As to the playbook- it's an actual blueprint that Bush and Obama implemented and passed on to Trump.
Not only did he make budget requests in line with what was already in place, but he argued that because Obama had done such a wonderful job on the issue, that he didn't need to use funds for that purpose. That's how he diverted funds to the wall...

Of course, those were the arguments he made in budget discussions. Later in May 2020, he claimed Obama left the cupboard bare-
because he's Trump. And that's what he does...

Google is a wonderful thing...

"2016

Obama administration prepares a 69-page Pandemic Playbook to coordinate an early, all of government response to an outbreak. Trump officials will leave it on the shelf.

Jan 2017

Outgoing Obama officials conduct a disaster response exercise described as “the worst influenza pandemic since 1918” with incoming Trump officials."

https://www.rollingstone.com/politi...ng-stone-timeline-coronavirus-america-982944/

Again prior to Trump the efforts were bi-partisan...

2005

President George W. Bush delivers a speech to the National Institutes of Health: “A pandemic is a lot like a forest fire. If caught early, it might be extinguished with limited damage. If allowed to smolder, undetected, it can grow to an inferno that can spread quickly beyond our ability to control it…. If we wait for a pandemic to appear, it will be too late to prepare. And one day many lives could be needlessly lost because we failed to act today.”

2007

Bush-era Centers for Disease Control publishes pandemic response plan.

ton Post/Getty Images

2009

Republican Sen. Susan Collins of Maine reportedly blocks $870 million in flu pandemic preparedness funding from Recovery Act stimulus.

2011

National Institutes of Health sponsors study that warns: “In a severe influenza pandemic, hospitals will likely experience serious and widespread shortages of patient pulmonary ventilators.”

2015

Centers for Disease Control (CDC) sponsors study warning of a deficit of up to 60,500 ventilators in a severe influenza pandemic.

Department of Homeland Security study predicts a severe flu epidemic could result in 6.5 million hospitalizations and 2.3 million ICU admissions and “could overwhelm the Healthcare and Public Health Sector in as little as 3-6 weeks.” Warns of “significant shortages in… personal protective equipment (PPE), and medical equipment, including ventilators” as well as of “supply chain disruptions” that could “significantly hamper the effectiveness” of frontline workers.

Document outlines strategy now known a “flattening the curve”:

pandemic-curve.jpg

Obama HHS solicits plans for a machine that can produce up to 2 million N95 respirators a day. “Respirator manufacturing capacity remains a critical gap” in pandemic preparedness says a top federal official in charge of project.

2016

Obama administration prepares a 69-page Pandemic Playbook to coordinate an early, all of government response to an outbreak. Trump officials will leave it on the shelf.

pandemic-playbook.jpg

Jan 2017

Outgoing Obama officials conduct a disaster response exercise described as “the worst influenza pandemic since 1918” with incoming Trump officials.

Later 2017

Trump administration — focusing DHS on immigration — shuts down the department’s modeling of flu pandemics."


These links are vital because they dispel two of Trump's (and his allies) talking points.

First off past administrations did have plans in place that they assumed would be followed and adhered to by Responsible successors. The key of course is "responsible"...

Also it's extremely hard to argue that a Dem Administration (which by it's nature would include people involved in formulating the Obama Admin policies in this area) would suddenly shift gears and somehow decide to not implement the same policies that they had a hand in creating in the first place...Yet that is among the excuses Trump comes up with to try and excuse his own failures...

St Louis Post Dispatch has researched the issue of Budet cuts,and Trump's ridiculous claim that Obama left the cupboard bare. The facts are scathing, and this editorial is Brutal...

"Woe is Donald Trump. The long-suffering, misunderstood president just can’t make the world understand what a raw deal he got. The pandemic was China’s fault. Or was it the World Health Organization’s fault? One thing we know for sure, the lax U.S. response was President Barack Obama’s fault.

“We inherited a broken, terrible system …,” Trump told reporters on April 18. “Our cupboards were bare. We had very little in our stockpile.” That was Trump’s attempt, frequently repeated by the president and recycled in White House presentations, to lay responsibility for the inept pandemic response at Obama’s feet, as if three years in office were insufficient for Trump to repair all the supposed damage his predecessor wrought.




Except it’s a lie of colossal Trumpian proportions.

We’ve taken the time to dissect Centers for Disease Control and Prevention budgets from the year before Obama left office all the way to the present. Trump can lie, but the numbers cannot. Obama left office with an unblemished record of building up the nation’s pandemic preparedness. Trump systematically sought to dismantle it.

Perhaps because of his experience with the 2015 Ebola outbreak, Obama sought to leave his successor fully prepared to confront future pandemics. He asked in his fiscal 2017 budget request to boost federal isolation and quarantine funding by $15 million, to $46.6 million. Congress approved $31.6 million. In Trump’s three years in office, he has not requested a dime more in funding.


Obama asked to nearly double his own $40 million outlay for epidemiology and laboratory capacity. Congress balked, but Obama left Trump with that $40 million as a starting point. What did Trump do? In his 2020 budget , he asked Congress to cut that number to: Zero. Zilch. Nothing.

https://www.stltoday.com/opinion/ed...cle_bd1bb8d6-7477-590d-af72-ae4e305de601.html

Deep Budget cuts for pandemic preparedness in the fall of 2019. And the shutting down of the US monitor within China charged with keeping the CDC and the US Govt informed of any potential hot spots and possible virus outbreaks, earlier in July of that same year. Man poor DJT- talk about LOUSY TIMING. And of course, totally beyond his control DWS...
 

Marvin the Martian

Hall of Famer
Sep 4, 2001
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Biden op-ed of 1-27 discussing impending PANDEMIC, and Trump's cuts to preparedness...
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...us-less-prepared-joe-biden-column/4581710002/

Biden tweet of 10-25-19 regarding previous day's WAPO article on study rating each country on disaster preparedness...On that same day, Trump tweeted complaining about the iphone's revision of the HOME button...

Imo, these links are important because they destroy the narrative (employed by Trump and others) that NO ONE could have known what was coming or at least been better prepared and ready to implement the necessary measures earlier



The "China Travel ban" was nothing more than a xenophobic talking point. The virus was primarily transported to the US via people travelling from Europe who had been infected by their fellow countrymen (esp Spain and Italy) who had returned from VISITING China. There was no ban on European flights, or US citizens returning from Europe or China.

There was also no screening of incoming flights at the airport. That and contact tracing were fundamental elements instituted in places like Singapore and S Korea, who both started off with significantly more cases than the US but got things under control much more quickly and efficiently...

Countries that share a land border with China and are far closer than US cities have literally millions of fewer cases. Laos for instance...

Location Cases Recovered Deaths
Laos 22 19 0

US 5.61 M 2.85 175K

Just pointing out that proximity to China and Chinese citizens is not really a huge factor. Vientiane Laos is a city of 820,000 people, 6 hrs (1138 miles) from Wuhan via China Air. 3 or 4 flights daily.

Bloomington is nearly 7500 miles from Wuhan separated by a vast ocean and about 1/2 a continent. Monroe Co has had 827 cases and 39 deaths. The virus originated in China, but Chinese citizens have not been the ones spreading it...

Bragging about banning travel from Chinese tourists and "saving thousands of US lives" in the process is basically hot air.

As to the playbook- it's an actual blueprint that Bush and Obama implemented and passed on to Trump.
Not only did he make budget requests in line with what was already in place, but he argued that because Obama had done such a wonderful job on the issue, that he didn't need to use funds for that purpose. That's how he diverted funds to the wall...

Of course, those were the arguments he made in budget discussions. Later in May 2020, he claimed Obama left the cupboard bare-
because he's Trump. And that's what he does...

Google is a wonderful thing...

"2016

Obama administration prepares a 69-page Pandemic Playbook to coordinate an early, all of government response to an outbreak. Trump officials will leave it on the shelf.

Jan 2017

Outgoing Obama officials conduct a disaster response exercise described as “the worst influenza pandemic since 1918” with incoming Trump officials."

https://www.rollingstone.com/politi...ng-stone-timeline-coronavirus-america-982944/

Again prior to Trump the efforts were bi-partisan...

2005

President George W. Bush delivers a speech to the National Institutes of Health: “A pandemic is a lot like a forest fire. If caught early, it might be extinguished with limited damage. If allowed to smolder, undetected, it can grow to an inferno that can spread quickly beyond our ability to control it…. If we wait for a pandemic to appear, it will be too late to prepare. And one day many lives could be needlessly lost because we failed to act today.”

2007

Bush-era Centers for Disease Control publishes pandemic response plan.

ton Post/Getty Images

2009

Republican Sen. Susan Collins of Maine reportedly blocks $870 million in flu pandemic preparedness funding from Recovery Act stimulus.

2011

National Institutes of Health sponsors study that warns: “In a severe influenza pandemic, hospitals will likely experience serious and widespread shortages of patient pulmonary ventilators.”

2015

Centers for Disease Control (CDC) sponsors study warning of a deficit of up to 60,500 ventilators in a severe influenza pandemic.

Department of Homeland Security study predicts a severe flu epidemic could result in 6.5 million hospitalizations and 2.3 million ICU admissions and “could overwhelm the Healthcare and Public Health Sector in as little as 3-6 weeks.” Warns of “significant shortages in… personal protective equipment (PPE), and medical equipment, including ventilators” as well as of “supply chain disruptions” that could “significantly hamper the effectiveness” of frontline workers.

Document outlines strategy now known a “flattening the curve”:

pandemic-curve.jpg

Obama HHS solicits plans for a machine that can produce up to 2 million N95 respirators a day. “Respirator manufacturing capacity remains a critical gap” in pandemic preparedness says a top federal official in charge of project.

2016

Obama administration prepares a 69-page Pandemic Playbook to coordinate an early, all of government response to an outbreak. Trump officials will leave it on the shelf.

pandemic-playbook.jpg

Jan 2017

Outgoing Obama officials conduct a disaster response exercise described as “the worst influenza pandemic since 1918” with incoming Trump officials.

Later 2017

Trump administration — focusing DHS on immigration — shuts down the department’s modeling of flu pandemics."


These links are vital because they dispel two of Trump's (and his allies) talking points.

First off past administrations did have plans in place that they assumed would be followed and adhered to by Responsible successors. The key of course is "responsible"...

Also it's extremely hard to argue that a Dem Administration (which by it's nature would include people involved in formulating the Obama Admin policies in this area) would suddenly shift gears and somehow decide to not implement the same policies that they had a hand in creating in the first place...Yet that is among the excuses Trump comes up with to try and excuse his own failures...

St Louis Post Dispatch has researched the issue of Budet cuts,and Trump's ridiculous claim that Obama left the cupboard bare. The facts are scathing, and this editorial is Brutal...

"Woe is Donald Trump. The long-suffering, misunderstood president just can’t make the world understand what a raw deal he got. The pandemic was China’s fault. Or was it the World Health Organization’s fault? One thing we know for sure, the lax U.S. response was President Barack Obama’s fault.

“We inherited a broken, terrible system …,” Trump told reporters on April 18. “Our cupboards were bare. We had very little in our stockpile.” That was Trump’s attempt, frequently repeated by the president and recycled in White House presentations, to lay responsibility for the inept pandemic response at Obama’s feet, as if three years in office were insufficient for Trump to repair all the supposed damage his predecessor wrought.




Except it’s a lie of colossal Trumpian proportions.

We’ve taken the time to dissect Centers for Disease Control and Prevention budgets from the year before Obama left office all the way to the present. Trump can lie, but the numbers cannot. Obama left office with an unblemished record of building up the nation’s pandemic preparedness. Trump systematically sought to dismantle it.

Perhaps because of his experience with the 2015 Ebola outbreak, Obama sought to leave his successor fully prepared to confront future pandemics. He asked in his fiscal 2017 budget request to boost federal isolation and quarantine funding by $15 million, to $46.6 million. Congress approved $31.6 million. In Trump’s three years in office, he has not requested a dime more in funding.


Obama asked to nearly double his own $40 million outlay for epidemiology and laboratory capacity. Congress balked, but Obama left Trump with that $40 million as a starting point. What did Trump do? In his 2020 budget , he asked Congress to cut that number to: Zero. Zilch. Nothing.

https://www.stltoday.com/opinion/ed...cle_bd1bb8d6-7477-590d-af72-ae4e305de601.html

Deep Budget cuts for pandemic preparedness in the fall of 2019. And the shutting down of the US monitor within China charged with keeping the CDC and the US Govt informed of any potential hot spots and possible virus outbreaks, earlier in July of that same year. Man poor DJT- talk about LOUSY TIMING. And of course, totally beyond his control DWS...

Is this what you do at the dog park when no one else is there. :).
 

dbmhoosier

All-Big Ten
Nov 23, 2005
3,468
2,519
113
Hey, dmb, I asked in another thread, so maybe you missed it. Since you are the "gaffe" experts here, and I didn't get a chance to see the Biden acceptance speech yet, would you please list all the embarrassing mistakes he made last night? Did he fall off the stage? Drool on his notes? Seem disoriented? Repeat himself before trailing off? Ask where his World's Fair spoon was? Start singing, "The Old Gray Mare"? Have trouble descending any ramps? Use two hands to drink his water?

What have you got?

I tried to tune in but my record player wasn't working last night. Sorry.

But it sounds like he did fine. But no one cares what he or Trump says when they're reading some rehearsed speech that they've probably practiced for months off a teleprompter. The debates are when Biden will have the opportunity to quiet the doubters.
 
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CO. Hoosier

Hall of Famer
Aug 29, 2001
36,938
7,799
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Biden op-ed of 1-27 discussing impending PANDEMIC, and Trump's cuts to preparedness...
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...us-less-prepared-joe-biden-column/4581710002/

Biden tweet of 10-25-19 regarding previous day's WAPO article on study rating each country on disaster preparedness...On that same day, Trump tweeted complaining about the iphone's revision of the HOME button...

Imo, these links are important because they destroy the narrative (employed by Trump and others) that NO ONE could have known what was coming or at least been better prepared and ready to implement the necessary measures earlier



The "China Travel ban" was nothing more than a xenophobic talking point. The virus was primarily transported to the US via people travelling from Europe who had been infected by their fellow countrymen (esp Spain and Italy) who had returned from VISITING China. There was no ban on European flights, or US citizens returning from Europe or China.

There was also no screening of incoming flights at the airport. That and contact tracing were fundamental elements instituted in places like Singapore and S Korea, who both started off with significantly more cases than the US but got things under control much more quickly and efficiently...

Countries that share a land border with China and are far closer than US cities have literally millions of fewer cases. Laos for instance...

Location Cases Recovered Deaths
Laos 22 19 0

US 5.61 M 2.85 175K

Just pointing out that proximity to China and Chinese citizens is not really a huge factor. Vientiane Laos is a city of 820,000 people, 6 hrs (1138 miles) from Wuhan via China Air. 3 or 4 flights daily.

Bloomington is nearly 7500 miles from Wuhan separated by a vast ocean and about 1/2 a continent. Monroe Co has had 827 cases and 39 deaths. The virus originated in China, but Chinese citizens have not been the ones spreading it...

Bragging about banning travel from Chinese tourists and "saving thousands of US lives" in the process is basically hot air.

As to the playbook- it's an actual blueprint that Bush and Obama implemented and passed on to Trump.
Not only did he make budget requests in line with what was already in place, but he argued that because Obama had done such a wonderful job on the issue, that he didn't need to use funds for that purpose. That's how he diverted funds to the wall...

Of course, those were the arguments he made in budget discussions. Later in May 2020, he claimed Obama left the cupboard bare-
because he's Trump. And that's what he does...

Google is a wonderful thing...

"2016

Obama administration prepares a 69-page Pandemic Playbook to coordinate an early, all of government response to an outbreak. Trump officials will leave it on the shelf.

Jan 2017

Outgoing Obama officials conduct a disaster response exercise described as “the worst influenza pandemic since 1918” with incoming Trump officials."

https://www.rollingstone.com/politi...ng-stone-timeline-coronavirus-america-982944/

Again prior to Trump the efforts were bi-partisan...

2005

President George W. Bush delivers a speech to the National Institutes of Health: “A pandemic is a lot like a forest fire. If caught early, it might be extinguished with limited damage. If allowed to smolder, undetected, it can grow to an inferno that can spread quickly beyond our ability to control it…. If we wait for a pandemic to appear, it will be too late to prepare. And one day many lives could be needlessly lost because we failed to act today.”

2007

Bush-era Centers for Disease Control publishes pandemic response plan.

ton Post/Getty Images

2009

Republican Sen. Susan Collins of Maine reportedly blocks $870 million in flu pandemic preparedness funding from Recovery Act stimulus.

2011

National Institutes of Health sponsors study that warns: “In a severe influenza pandemic, hospitals will likely experience serious and widespread shortages of patient pulmonary ventilators.”

2015

Centers for Disease Control (CDC) sponsors study warning of a deficit of up to 60,500 ventilators in a severe influenza pandemic.

Department of Homeland Security study predicts a severe flu epidemic could result in 6.5 million hospitalizations and 2.3 million ICU admissions and “could overwhelm the Healthcare and Public Health Sector in as little as 3-6 weeks.” Warns of “significant shortages in… personal protective equipment (PPE), and medical equipment, including ventilators” as well as of “supply chain disruptions” that could “significantly hamper the effectiveness” of frontline workers.

Document outlines strategy now known a “flattening the curve”:

pandemic-curve.jpg

Obama HHS solicits plans for a machine that can produce up to 2 million N95 respirators a day. “Respirator manufacturing capacity remains a critical gap” in pandemic preparedness says a top federal official in charge of project.

2016

Obama administration prepares a 69-page Pandemic Playbook to coordinate an early, all of government response to an outbreak. Trump officials will leave it on the shelf.

pandemic-playbook.jpg

Jan 2017

Outgoing Obama officials conduct a disaster response exercise described as “the worst influenza pandemic since 1918” with incoming Trump officials.

Later 2017

Trump administration — focusing DHS on immigration — shuts down the department’s modeling of flu pandemics."


These links are vital because they dispel two of Trump's (and his allies) talking points.

First off past administrations did have plans in place that they assumed would be followed and adhered to by Responsible successors. The key of course is "responsible"...

Also it's extremely hard to argue that a Dem Administration (which by it's nature would include people involved in formulating the Obama Admin policies in this area) would suddenly shift gears and somehow decide to not implement the same policies that they had a hand in creating in the first place...Yet that is among the excuses Trump comes up with to try and excuse his own failures...

St Louis Post Dispatch has researched the issue of Budet cuts,and Trump's ridiculous claim that Obama left the cupboard bare. The facts are scathing, and this editorial is Brutal...

"Woe is Donald Trump. The long-suffering, misunderstood president just can’t make the world understand what a raw deal he got. The pandemic was China’s fault. Or was it the World Health Organization’s fault? One thing we know for sure, the lax U.S. response was President Barack Obama’s fault.

“We inherited a broken, terrible system …,” Trump told reporters on April 18. “Our cupboards were bare. We had very little in our stockpile.” That was Trump’s attempt, frequently repeated by the president and recycled in White House presentations, to lay responsibility for the inept pandemic response at Obama’s feet, as if three years in office were insufficient for Trump to repair all the supposed damage his predecessor wrought.




Except it’s a lie of colossal Trumpian proportions.

We’ve taken the time to dissect Centers for Disease Control and Prevention budgets from the year before Obama left office all the way to the present. Trump can lie, but the numbers cannot. Obama left office with an unblemished record of building up the nation’s pandemic preparedness. Trump systematically sought to dismantle it.

Perhaps because of his experience with the 2015 Ebola outbreak, Obama sought to leave his successor fully prepared to confront future pandemics. He asked in his fiscal 2017 budget request to boost federal isolation and quarantine funding by $15 million, to $46.6 million. Congress approved $31.6 million. In Trump’s three years in office, he has not requested a dime more in funding.


Obama asked to nearly double his own $40 million outlay for epidemiology and laboratory capacity. Congress balked, but Obama left Trump with that $40 million as a starting point. What did Trump do? In his 2020 budget , he asked Congress to cut that number to: Zero. Zilch. Nothing.

https://www.stltoday.com/opinion/ed...cle_bd1bb8d6-7477-590d-af72-ae4e305de601.html

Deep Budget cuts for pandemic preparedness in the fall of 2019. And the shutting down of the US monitor within China charged with keeping the CDC and the US Govt informed of any potential hot spots and possible virus outbreaks, earlier in July of that same year. Man poor DJT- talk about LOUSY TIMING. And of course, totally beyond his control DWS...

I obviously won't go into the detail you did. The budget stuff has been litigated often here. Most of your material was been debunked. See and See.

It's no secret that we were unprepared for a pandemic like this. I've posted about that often including reports from 10 or 15 years ago from disaster people who were on the front lines. Not only did our pandemic response suffer from years of neglect, it was also hampered by systemic issues such as the CDC testing foulups in January and February.

The argument that "Laos is closer and did better" has been a stupid red herring from the start. It shows basic ignorance about how the virus moves around the world.

True that most of our cases came from Europe, but we did not, and likely could not, know that, in late January and Early February of 2020. positioned

As I said, N.Y.C. was a gateway through which much of the virus passed as it entered the U.S. Most observers would agree that N.Y.C. was not only well positioned to be a virus incubator in terms of highly dense housing, mass transit, social life, travel, and more. Maybe you think Trump "leadership" would have been well-received by Cuomo and De Blasio, but I don't think so.

There is no doubt that we could have done things better. There is no doubt that some sounded the alarm about a possible pandemic disaster and had done that for years. Those things are true for any disaster. Preparedness could have been better, and there would have been those who sounded the alarm.
 

Stuffshot

All-American
Feb 20, 2008
8,323
3,607
113
I obviously won't go into the detail you did. The budget stuff has been litigated often here. Most of your material was been debunked. See and See.

It's no secret that we were unprepared for a pandemic like this. I've posted about that often including reports from 10 or 15 years ago from disaster people who were on the front lines. Not only did our pandemic response suffer from years of neglect, it was also hampered by systemic issues such as the CDC testing foulups in January and February.

The argument that "Laos is closer and did better" has been a stupid red herring from the start. It shows basic ignorance about how the virus moves around the world.

True that most of our cases came from Europe, but we did not, and likely could not, know that, in late January and Early February of 2020. positioned

As I said, N.Y.C. was a gateway through which much of the virus passed as it entered the U.S. Most observers would agree that N.Y.C. was not only well positioned to be a virus incubator in terms of highly dense housing, mass transit, social life, travel, and more. Maybe you think Trump "leadership" would have been well-received by Cuomo and De Blasio, but I don't think so.

There is no doubt that we could have done things better. There is no doubt that some sounded the alarm about a possible pandemic disaster and had done that for years. Those things are true for any disaster. Preparedness could have been better, and there would have been those who sounded the alarm.
No, I think a Trump travel ban against European travelers at that time would have been well-received. The number of European flights that daily come into NYC, NJ, Fla. and Mass. itself is evidence of the dangers Trump overlooked. Trump's administration should have known by then that the virus was spreading through the European Union and, given Trump's obsession with closing southern borders and restricting travel from China, there is no way you can claim Trump didn't know by then that he could reduce America's exposure to Covid by restricting travel from Europe as well.

And, no, you are ridiculous in saying something was "litigated here," where there are no standards of evidence, attribution or discovery. If you really are a lawyer (and not Kellyanne Conway) you wouldn't taint the meaning of "litigated" by suggesting that what happens on this board is the same as what happens in a formal legal proceeding to resolve issues.
 

CO. Hoosier

Hall of Famer
Aug 29, 2001
36,938
7,799
113
No, I think a Trump travel ban against European travelers at that time would have been well-received. The number of European flights that daily come into NYC, NJ, Fla. and Mass. itself is evidence of the dangers Trump overlooked. Trump's administration should have known by then that the virus was spreading through the European Union and, given Trump's obsession with closing southern borders and restricting travel from China, there is no way you can claim Trump didn't know by then that he could reduce America's exposure to Covid by restricting travel from Europe as well.

And, no, you are ridiculous in saying something was "litigated here," where there are no standards of evidence, attribution or discovery. If you really are a lawyer (and not Kellyanne Conway) you wouldn't taint the meaning of "litigated" by suggesting that what happens on this board is the same as what happens in a formal legal proceeding to resolve issues.

As late as March of 2020, De Blasio and Cuomo were bragging about N.Y.C. and how it could beat Covid like nobody else in the world. Trump banned European travel days later and he wa
s criticized for that. l
 

ribbont

All-American
Mar 23, 2006
6,796
2,022
113
Not wanting to hijack the thread but I always ask and legitimately wonder if the party the protects the unborn actually has a plan to help protect that stance other than basic slut shaming.

Are you going to make the father financially accountable automatically to where only by death can he get out of his financial responsibility?

Are you going to better fund preventative measures like planned parenthood?

Are you going to fund the increase in foster care and adoption services/options?

Are you going to fund and guarantee the health care of the mother through the birth?

Or are you just going to wag your finger, call her a slut that should have kept her whore legs closed and walk away very well knowing that rich girls will still have that option as they can afford to go out of country for one (and will).

So far in my lifetime on this conversation the answer has been slut shaming and Jesus.

That's not good enough.

Personally, I am fine with many of those ideas and would gladly pay more taxes to do so.
 

blynn

Benchwarmer
Nov 24, 2002
300
155
43
Anybody wanna dispute the point that Democrats are by in large uninformed about Covid risks which is what the thread is about?
LOL. The study said Americans were misinformed, though more-so Democrats and those who get their news from social media. Quite different from your take on liberals. Not to mention there being no support for your own conclusions. And to what degree are Democrats more misinformed versus Republicans? Well, it turns out we’re not told. Maybe the margin of error might be helpful? Oh, there is no margin of error because the methodology was, let’s just say, not of particularly high quality.

But I’m guessing that you still don’t understand the irony in your posting about people being misinformed.
 

glmiu11

Junior
Gold Member
Oct 23, 2014
1,942
1,010
113
Most observers would agree that N.Y.C. was not only well positioned to be a virus incubator in terms of highly dense housing, mass transit, social life, travel, and more.
Wait a month from now and see what opening the schools does.