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The Greatest Female Pop Voice of All Time

Lol, even dumber. You really don't know crap about music do you? And you actually have decent taste. fwiw - I don't question your taste, I only question your knowledge, because it's obvious you have NONE.

So, why do you pretend? Do I tell you how to dress for golf? No. Because I don't know crap about golf wardrobes. Maybe you should stick with what you know instead of blurting your ignorance out for everyone to see.

And, you just keep going on your ignorance of Janis and music in general.. Amazing. Here, maybe this will show you. It's basically like you just said "I don't know if Jimi Hendrix was a great guitarist because he used a wah". Do you get it now? Tone. God, you sound dumb....
I'm certainly no musician, I just know what I like. You say Janis has great tone, maybe you're right. I say I like Janis, I know I'm right. God, you sound like a bitch.
 
I was just going to say Linda Ronstadt. Besides, she was originally backed by your favorite band. *snicker*
Once again. I don't dislike the Eagles musically, I only dislike their greed and refuse to give them any of my money. I even ripped every CD they have and gave them to all my friends so they never spend money on them. Musically they're fine, they're just crappy human beings..

and that story is mostly horseshit, the group that would eventually be known as the Eagles were never officially her back up band, they filled in for a few shows, and they were never there as a whole group. Just so ya know.. it was hyperbole that has reached myth status.
 
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I'm certainly no musician, I just know what I like. You say Janis has great tone, maybe you're right. I say I like Janis, I know I'm right. God, you sound like a bitch.

I didn't say she had anything. Pay attention. I said you sounded dumb and that is a verified fact. You sounded dumb. Plus, you can like whatever you wish, in fact when it comes to music that's all you can do. You don't have the knowledge or experience to judge what is well done and what isn't. So stop trying...

lol
 
Once again. I don't dislike the Eagles musically, I only dislike their greed and refuse to give them any of my money. I even ripped every CD they have and gave them to all my friends so they never spend money on them. Musically they're fine, they're just crappy human beings..

and that story is mostly horseshit, the group that would eventually be known as the Eagles were never officially her back up band, they filled in for a few shows, and they were never there as a whole group. Just so ya know.. it was hyperbole that has reached myth status.
I know. It was just a way to work it into the response. I tried to include Buckingham but I just couldn't. lol
 
I didn't say she had anything. Pay attention. I said you sounded dumb and that is a verified fact. You sounded dumb. Plus, you can like whatever you wish, in fact when it comes to music that's all you can do. You don't have the knowledge or experience to judge what is well done and what isn't. So stop trying...

lol
I didn't pretend to be an authority on music. I only listed what I liked. I said I didn't think Janis was a pop singer and that I didn't think she had a traditionally great female voice. Now stop being a bitch.
 
I know. It was just a way to work it into the response. I tried to include Buckingham but I just couldn't. lol

You trollin me, esse? I've always liked the Eagles, especially early when they were country but even later when they went rock. Hotel California is one of the great albums, ya know..

lol ....
 
I didn't pretend to be an authority on music. I only listed what I liked. I said I didn't think Janis was a pop singer and that I didn't think she had a traditionally great female voice. Now stop being a bitch.

Bullshit ... don't lie and try to change what you were saying just because you sounded dumb. Own up to it, pay attention to my posts and learn something .. dumbass.
 
Glad to see someone finally included Billie Holiday (even if you spelled it wrong). I'm a big Janis fan, but not quite sure I'd call her either a pop voice or a great vocalist--maybe because she's not your typical female voice. Amy Winehouse is underrated, Ella and Etta are phenomenal, Allison Krause and Patsy Cline are high on my list, Peggy Lee, Nora Jones, Diana Krall would all be in the top 20.

There, this is exactly what I said. Now stop being a bitch.
 
There, this is exactly what I said. Now stop being a bitch.

dumb ..

I'm done with you for the day, you're boring in your continued acceptance and dismissal of your own ignorance. So very American. When and if you finally take the time to learn something about music, though you may have to take time away from sitting on your fat ass watching football, picking out even gheyer clothes to golf in and drinking over priced over hyped beer, maybe, I'll take the time to teach you something, again. Until then, keep fighting the dumb fight. lol ...
 
dumb ..

I'm done with you for the day, you're boring in your continued acceptance and dismissal of your own ignorance. So very American. When and if you finally take the time to learn something about music, though you may have to take time away from sitting on your fat ass watching football, picking out even gheyer clothes to golf in and drinking over priced over hyped beer, maybe, I'll take the time to teach you something, again. Until then, keep fighting the dumb fight. lol ...
douchelord.
 
douchelord.

Wow. So now I have to teach you about wit? fwiw -I don't have the time. You suck at everything, dude. Regardless, you've been dismissed...So, ugh, go away.

Maybe spend the next 20 minutes learning something other than being so commonly ignorant.
 
Wow. So now I have to teach you about wit? fwiw -I don't have the time. You suck at everything, dude. Regardless, you've been dismissed...So, ugh, go away.

Maybe spend the next 20 minutes learning something other than being so commonly ignorant.
Those who can't do, teach. You obviously can't do a damn thing.
 
You trollin me, esse? I've always liked the Eagles, especially early when they were country but even later when they went rock. Hotel California is one of the great albums, ya know..

lol ....
Lmao. Gettin' my own little version of TMP going. I gotta tell you though, dude. The "Out of the Woods" cover by Ryan Adams is badass. I don't give a chit who wrote it. It's one of the best songs I've heard this year. It's a solid album all the way around, especially when compared to all the other shite out there these days.
 
Lmao. Gettin' my own little version of TMP going. I gotta tell you though, dude. The "Out of the Woods" cover by Ryan Adams is badass. I don't give a chit who wrote it. It's one of the best songs I've heard this year. It's a solid album all the way around, especially when compared to all the other shite out there these days.
Of course it is, arrangement is the most important aspect in good music. It's underrated when compared to composition, and lyrics. He's still covered in it .. I don't care how good he makes her dumb songs sound.
 
Of course it is, arrangement is the most important aspect in good music. It's underrated when compared to composition, and lyrics. He's still covered in it .. I don't care how good he makes her dumb songs sound.
Dammit! The lyrics on at least a few of those songs are good. Hell, he even said so and, all due respect dude, I'll take his opinion over yours every day of the week. I've seen his lyrics after all and they're tits.
 
None of the white girls have the understanding of time the black gospel trained singers have. Most don't have the range or power either. Read Lomax's book as to why, it's cultural. The answer is Whitney and/or Aretha. 1a 1b. and, it's a no contest.

The answer is Ella effin Fitzgerald. She was the pop singer of her time. She sang the most popular tunes written at the time. She's pop. She's the best. If there's anything to argue here, it's the definition of "Pop".
 
So for this discussion, "pop" allows us to compare Aretha (60s soul) to Whitney (80s RnB) to Linda Ronstadt (70s yacht rock) to Christina Aguilera (bad 90s over singing blue eyed soul) to Alison krauss (bluegrass), but not Ella, because she's old timey jazz big band.

Ok, got it.
 
"pop" describes a music genre so...

IMHO, that doesn't mean someone like Janis Joplin but Anne Murray, she was a pop singer, and she also did country and adult contemporary.

Janis was a blues/rocker.
shut up ... and go away.
 
So for this discussion, "pop" allows us to compare Aretha (60s soul) to Whitney (80s RnB) to Linda Ronstadt (70s yacht rock) to Christina Aguilera (bad 90s over singing blue eyed soul) to Alison krauss (bluegrass), but not Ella, because she's old timey jazz big band.

Ok, got it.

We gonna seriously define genres of modern music? It gets damn messy. Everyone got a little annoyed when I called Sympathy for the Devil a samba, and yet that's what it is.

Let's just go Ella/Whitney/Aretha. 1a, 1b, 1c.... then the rest, though now I want to add Etta. Blues and Jazz were popular once right? Or are we defining pop as manufactured music, with simple melodies and common hooks? If so we need to remove Ella and maybe Aretha..

While were at it - let's define Rock, Country, Blues and Folk... what ya got? lol ..Example: Is Ripple by the GD, a country blues song, since it uses I/Iv/V or is it just folk? Wait, it's country. Or is it acoustic rock? No, it's actually a 4/4 waltz. Which would make the GD a waltz band? Damn messy ..
 
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We gonna seriously define genres of modern music? It gets damn messy. Everyone got a little annoyed when I called Sympathy for the Devil a samba, and yet that's what it is.

Let's just go Ella/Whitney/Aretha. 1a, 1b, 1c.... then the rest, though now I want to add Etta. Blues and Jazz were popular once right? Or are we defining pop as manufactured music, with simple melodies and common hooks? If so we need to remove Ella and maybe Aretha..

While were at it - let's define Rock, Country, Blues and Folk... what ya got? lol ..Example: Is Ripple by the GD, a country blues song, since it uses I/Iv/V or is it just folk? Wait, it's country. Or is it acoustic rock? No, it's actually a 4/4 waltz. Which would make the GD a waltz band? Damn messy ..

A 4/4 waltz . . . now wait a minute . . . . .
 
A 4/4 waltz . . . now wait a minute . . . . .
It is ... though most are 3/4, Ripple is without doubt a 4/4 country waltz. It's also folk. And country, and acoustic rock, played by a psychedelic "jam" band... it's not blues, though it's most likely based in blues. All those words and they barely mean anything...

Damn messy ..
 
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So for this discussion, "pop" allows us to compare Aretha (60s soul) to Whitney (80s RnB) to Linda Ronstadt (70s yacht rock) to Christina Aguilera (bad 90s over singing blue eyed soul) to Alison krauss (bluegrass), but not Ella, because she's old timey jazz big band.

Ok, got it.
Hey Phyloe, you are correct, to have this conversation the term "pop" has to be defined, or better, we need to choose which definition were using.

One; it is used to represent any musical style that isn't classical or opera.

Two; it is used to describe music that is "popular" at a certain time.

Three; it is used to define music that is mass produced with little serious regard of art, that uses simple melodies and common hooks.

I tend to go for the third example when the word is mentioned. So, Ella fits if example one or two is used, but not if three is used. Aretha fits all three. Whitney fits all three. LR fits all three. CA fits all three. Allison only fits two. (why is she even being mentioned?)
 
Dammit! The lyrics on at least a few of those songs are good. Hell, he even said so and, all due respect dude, I'll take his opinion over yours every day of the week. I've seen his lyrics after all and they're tits.
You're sitting there telling me that Taylor Swift lyrics are good. ... lol .. and I'm supposed to take you seriously?

Did you read the story about busking? Dude played Spiderman all day long, and held every person who gave him money in contempt. I've known many musicians. the best are always tilted in some strange way and I've know plenty of punk and metal musicians and they are even more tilted. RA has always been tilted and is apt to cynicism.

And then you followed that with "he doesn't care" and that's cool or something? It's not like he covered an album that no one would understand or listen to. He covered one of the highest selling pop twit icons. that's not provocative, it's not art, it's playing spiderman over and over again to idiot fans. He's not Rivers Cuomo you know ..

Ugh, do you really think any musician actually likes their fans? I mean, the drunk dude who sings way too loud and tells you how great you are because you played Doobie Bros. The other drunk dude who keeps screaming out dumb song requests? The air guitar player who thinks he's playing along while looking like a spastic retard. Or the ugly fat chick that didn't dress enough that wants to dance right in front of you suggestively. You think they like or care about those people.. lol ....

It's a money grab based in cynicism and nothing else. And, he's obviously playing a role to sell it. And, like I said the first time this was posted, if you have to cover yourself in shit to bring notice to your art, at the end of the day no matter how good it is, you're still covered in shit.

He reeks ... and she's a joke and if he's actually taking this or her twit inflected teenie bopper bubblegum songs seriously, so is he.
 
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Hey Phyloe, you are correct, to have this conversation the term "pop" has to be defined, or better, we need to choose which definition were using.

One; it is used to represent any musical style that isn't classical or opera.

Two; it is used to describe music that is "popular" at a certain time.

Three; it is used to define music that is mass produced with little serious regard of art, that uses simple melodies and common hooks.

I tend to go for the third example when the word is mentioned. So, Ella fits if example one or two is used, but not if three is used. Aretha fits all three. Whitney fits all three. LR fits all three. CA fits all three. Allison only fits two. (why is she even being mentioned?)

I agree with all this, with just an issue with regards to number three: "with little serious regard of art..." I believe that, back when Tin Pan Alley writers were creating the songs, and jazz singers and musicians were playing them, they were working the standards, and they had simple melodies with common hooks, but given serious treatments and interpretations. (Actually, not totally unlike RA and the Taylor Swift mashup...) It was a long period of time where the best musicians relied on the simpler tunes of the day. Started with early jazz, all the way through Miles and trane, until they all moved towards writing their own material. If you agree, then I'd say Ella fits all three of your criteria. But I'll also add that, while "pop" is a broader category than most here think, I'll also agree that in later years, it started to become sacharine, and childish...almost like advertising. (I'll say that, in that way, I don't really like the early Beatles....) So you've got the monkees, and Alvin and the partridge family, which turned into all sorts of terrible money makers....but then really good shit, like Michael Jackson. Pop music with a serious framework. I can see that it gets messy. Even thriller, created with Quincy Jones, still had goofy elements, like Vincent price giving it a Disney like feel. I wish pop music today had way more Quincy Jones and far less Mutt Lange.

I know that a ramble you just suffered through. Pop though, is complicated, and it's easier to include stuff than exclude. Some country fits, and so does blues, so I think Etta belongs there too. Two cents....
 
I agree with all this, with just an issue with regards to number three: "with little serious regard of art..." I believe that, back when Tin Pan Alley writers were creating the songs, and jazz singers and musicians were playing them, they were working the standards, and they had simple melodies with common hooks, but given serious treatments and interpretations. (Actually, not totally unlike RA and the Taylor Swift mashup...) It was a long period of time where the best musicians relied on the simpler tunes of the day. Started with early jazz, all the way through Miles and trane, until they all moved towards writing their own material. If you agree, then I'd say Ella fits all three of your criteria. But I'll also add that, while "pop" is a broader category than most here think, I'll also agree that in later years, it started to become sacharine, and childish...almost like advertising. (I'll say that, in that way, I don't really like the early Beatles....) So you've got the monkees, and Alvin and the partridge family, which turned into all sorts of terrible money makers....but then really good shit, like Michael Jackson. Pop music with a serious framework. I can see that it gets messy. Even thriller, created with Quincy Jones, still had goofy elements, like Vincent price giving it a Disney like feel. I wish pop music today had way more Quincy Jones and far less Mutt Lange.

I know that a ramble you just suffered through. Pop though, is complicated, and it's easier to include stuff than exclude. Some country fits, and so does blues, so I think Etta belongs there too. Two cents....

Yup I agree with the Tin Pan alley stuff too, you're absolutely correctly, I was looking more with a current scene approach. Hell i consider some 80's metal pop.. because it was. These labels are so vague. Anymore, country, rap and R&B are also pop. In the third sense. For this exercise I believe the first and second are better. Basically anything not classical or opera.
 
It is ... though most are 3/4, Ripple is without doubt a 4/4 country waltz. It's also folk. And country, and acoustic rock, played by a psychedelic "jam" band... it's not blues, though it's most likely based in blues. All those words and they barely mean anything...

Damn messy ..
LOL. It's not a waltz. Even discounting the time signature (which you shouldn't), the rhythm and bass pattern are all wrong for a waltz. You're trolling.
 
LOL. It's not a waltz. Even discounting the time signature (which you shouldn't), the rhythm and bass pattern are all wrong for a waltz. You're trolling.

It's a 4/4 country waltz, with swing feel. It can be counted as 2/2 (cut time), I've played the damn thing for 25 years, I know this as undeniable fact. Also, there's no bass pattern on that song, Phil is all over the place, unless you're talking about the Carter picked intro (Carter picked Bakersfield style, where notes are up picked and with a little Jerry hybrid picking to fill it out) . Jerry on his rhythm alternates between the C and G on C chords, like one would do a waltz. Bobby is capoed 7th and playing perfect fifths over Jerry which muddles the rhythm a bit and again Phil is all over the place playing runs instead of basslines. There's no song I know better Goat, none. And it's a 4/4 country waltz with swing feel. First notes of melody, then - bum ba bum bum ba bum... next notes of melody, then - bum ba bum bum ba bum. It's a waltz.
 
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Here, I think maybe all the instruments are confusing you, you can hear it much easier like this ..


 
LOL. It's not a waltz. Even discounting the time signature (which you shouldn't), the rhythm and bass pattern are all wrong for a waltz. You're trolling.

Yes, I'm replying again - you bothered me with your reply.. I can't believe you can't hear it Hum this phonetically with the intro guitar or the outro vocals.. same melody..

La de da dum de da, dum da dum dum de dum, la de da da de da da, dum da dum dum de dum, la de da, de da, la de da dada da ..

La de da da da, dum da dum dum de dum, la de da da de da da, dum da dum dum de dum ..

it's a waltz, it's played fast, but that's what it is. The bolded part is the back ground rhythm which no one in the band highlights, or emphasizes but it's there.
 
It's a 4/4 country waltz, with swing feel. It can be counted as 2/2 (cut time), I've played the damn thing for 25 years, I know this as undeniable fact. Also, there's no bass pattern on that song, Phil is all over the place, unless you're talking about the Carter picked intro (Carter picked Bakersfield style, where notes are up picked and with a little Jerry hybrid picking to fill it out) . Jerry on his rhythm alternates between the C and G on C chords, like one would do a waltz. Bobby is capoed 5th and playing perfect fifths over Jerry which muddles the rhythm a bit and again Phil is all over the place playing runs instead of basslines. There's no song I know better Goat, none. And it's a 4/4 country waltz with swing feel. First notes of melody, then - bum ba bum bum ba bum... next notes of melody, then - bum ba bum bum ba bum. It's a waltz.

I counted it out as a quick 2/2, with G, C and D, and an Am thrown in on the chorus. I'd have to listen to it a hundred times to get each of the guitar rhythm and lyric rhythm down. But it's a very nice song . . . something to teach your grandchildren because they won't know what the hell it means either.

After listening to them playing that on youtube, I'd say you started with some decent musicians who wanted to play bluegrass and sing bluegrass harmonies, but they couldn't make the true bluegrass work so they just kept stumbling and getting lost into other forms . . . and in doing so they became reasonably accomplished at a whole lot of styles, and at muddling/blending them . . . toss in some seemingly mystical lyrics "You who would lead . . . must follow . . . when you fall, you must. fall a-lone" . . . . and WTF? Ah, yes, a psychedelic jam band . . . that's what it is.
 
I counted it out as a quick 2/2, with G, C and D, and an Am thrown in on the chorus. I'd have to listen to it a hundred times to get each of the guitar rhythm and lyric rhythm down. But it's a very nice song . . . something to teach your grandchildren because they won't know what the hell it means either.

After listening to them playing that on youtube, I'd say you started with some decent musicians who wanted to play bluegrass and sing bluegrass harmonies, but they couldn't make the true bluegrass work so they just kept stumbling and getting lost into other forms . . . and in doing so they became reasonably accomplished at a whole lot of styles, and at muddling/blending them . . . toss in some seemingly mystical lyrics "You who would lead . . . must follow . . . when you fall, you must. fall a-lone" . . . . and WTF? Ah, yes, a psychedelic jam band . . . that's what it is.

sigh
 
Yes, I'm replying again - you bothered me with your reply.. I can't believe you can't hear it Hum this phonetically with the intro guitar or the outro vocals.. same melody..

La de da dum de da, dum da dum dum de dum, la de da da de da da, dum da dum dum de dum, la de da, de da, la de da dada da ..

La de da da da, dum da dum dum de dum, la de da da de da da, dum da dum dum de dum ..

it's a waltz, it's played fast, but that's what it is. The bolded part is the back ground rhythm which no one in the band highlights, or emphasizes but it's there.
Are you high? Waltzes are pretty easy to spot. They are in triple time, with the root on the first beat and the other notes in the chord on the other two beats. Ripple's a great song, but that's not what's happening in it.
 
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