Anyone amused about the fact that the defense of Archie has gone from, "He's the right guy. He just needs to get HIS guys" to.... "He'll be here at least another year or two because we can't afford to buy him out"??
The Changing Defense of Archie
- Thread starter SoccerSammy
- Start date
It's amusing that the "Fire Archie" crowd continues with emotionally whining, "why can't all of you agree with me!"
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Actually I have been generally happy with it. I like the recruiting, I like the defense getting better every year, I like the style of play - of course I want the team to be measurably better his year too and this year isn't over. Better shooting will cure our issues because they're getting good shots that they're just not hitting. We need players to improve their shooting like Franklin has. He's a lot better. Others need to shoot better too.
I live in the Dayton area and saw Miller's teams at Dayton. I'll always be an IU fan first, and I really enjoyed watching UD play, so Miller was my first choice to replace Crean (who I never liked much at all, by the way). UD fans were not happy to lose him and OSU fans had him first on their list. I've not seen a good reason to give up on him yet - and I think it's dumb to believe IU would eat a 100% buyout after this season. They're not going to do it even if they weren't losing a lot of money this year due to COVID. I don't see a reason to support firing a coach when there's not a chance in hell, short of cheating and voiding the buyout, that it's going to happen. We've got him for this year and next no matter what and I'm hoping he proves we should keep him too - that means IU is successful.
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How is that a defense of the guy? It sounds like more of the same whining, crying and bitching to me.
“ I like the recruiting” - that is a stretch! We lack depth in frontcourt (even if Brunk is healthy), 3 frontcourt players on a 13 player roster is not acceptable. A roster of below average shooters is not acceptable.
Brunk was a good transfer for Miller and he'd be a difference maker this year. Might have two more wins. IU has a lot of top 100 players on the roster, mostly four stars, three straight IU Mr. Basketballs, the top PG in the 2021 class reclassed to play this year, a probable steal in Galloway, Thompson was a very good recruit. Franklin was a very good recruit and also a steal. Duncomb will be a good player for IU, etc. The roster is in far better shape than what was leftover from Crean. We'll see what other newcomer we get for next year to see how the roster is constructed. Of course I'm disappointed with the shooting too, but it's actually trending up. Franklin is legit. Yes, I like the recruiting. You can disagree, but it's only your opinion too.
So you are satisfied with only 3 bigs on a 13 man roster & the high probability of only 2 next year?
I'd prefer one more, but we don't have one. Brunk is a key missing piece. I said you can disagree. Don't be a dick.
Asking a question isn’t being a Dick! Accusing someone of being a Dick for asking a question is definitely being a DICK!
Continuing to argue about a difference of opinion is being a dick.
I don't think anyone expected an immediate turnaround. People have been willing to give Miller time. The question is how much. It's year four. Many think that's enough to know whether or not Miller is going to be able to get IU basketball back to national prominence. I'm not on the Fire Miller bandwagon yet, but he needs to show me something this year. So far I'm not confident he will. Sure, the improved defense is a big positive, but the shortcomings are glaring. But hey, what do I know. I'm sure not getting $3M to coach basketball. I hopes he proves that I'm an impatient idiot and that he's going to be our guy for a long long time.
Not arguing about a difference in opinion - I asked a simple question about a recruiting weakness you didn’t address. You found the need to resort to being a child and use name calling to make you feel superior
The lowered expectations crowd is backpedaling furiously. Doubt Miller is going anywhere for at least another year, but he won’t have Glass to protect him the way Crean did. Our failures are rooted in a lack of leadership, and we’ve had issues above the coach for years.
To be accurate, I didn't call you a name. I said, don't be a dick. I didn't say you were a dick. Continuing to ask the question again after I answered it would be responding like a dick, but I shouldn't have assumed you'd ask it again. However, this board is overflowing with people that post like dicks so my tolerance here can be short sometimes. Sorry about that.
Ok kids, play nice. Just because Christmas is over it doesn't mean Santa isn't still watching.
Semantics. You called the man a dick. Don’t shy away. That makes you a pussy
Well he’s not going anywhere for awhile. I’m assuming they won’t extend his contract and that will kill recruiting even more. I expect we buy him out after year 6.
Covid may buy him next season, but absent a material turnaround this year...he gone.
It’s already bought him 1 extra year. His buyout is 100% until March of 2022. He probably gets 1 after that.
Its the same people who take all the time the time they feel they need to make up THEIR minds on this issue and then get frustrated with other people who need more time to make up their minds on the same issues.
You got 4 likes so I guess there are at least 4 people who are generally happy with the situation. I don't personally know anyone who feels the same way.
Taking an honest response to your question, and twisting it into a rhetorical straw man for the purpose of continuing an argument no one wants to have with you is being a dick.
A coach should have things rolling at IU by year 4. Crean wasn't a good coach and earned his termination, and he had something going by year 4. Tom Allen almost won the Big 10 in year 4 for IU freaking football, and he had things turned around in year 3. Archie's recruiting has crapped out, and his offense consistently struggles: not good enough. Below .500 in Big 10 play isn't good enough. I haven't seen anything special from Archie, and he has had enough time to do so.
but but but Jimbo... the B1G is really good this year. Haven't you read that??? He's trying really really hard
I'm picking up some sarcasm, lol. In all reality, I'm sick of watching defensive struggles where we try to eke out a 62-60 win because we can't score enough points. Archie has failed to construct a roster of consistently capable offensive players and to run an offense that puts his players in a position to succeed. I appreciate the defensive efforts, but you have to play well on both ends. I don't want to waste 9 years on somebody who isn't the guy like Crean.
You've been happy with falling further behind in the conference year by year? Wow. And the recruiting? Falling farther behind there also.
IU has been getting better in the best conference in the country which has had great talent. The defense is currently one of the very best in the country. The offense is the issue and it would be tremendously improved by an incremental improvement in shooting percentage which these players are capable of. IU’s 2020 class is second highest rated class in the Big Ten and the 15th in the country. I disagree with you on both counts based on quantifiable data.
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National prominence?
Try relevant in your own conference.
The IU basketball program is settling into a yearly pecking order of being one of the worst teams in the conference. We may be lucky to see an NIT invite this season.
Miller might be bringing in highly rated/the top recruits in the country, but what has he accomplished with them? Exactly the same thing we were seeing when Crean was here. Personally, I'm getting sick of seeing,, "We got (insert overhyped random recruit's name here) coming in next year, he'll turn around our, shooting/defense/rebounding next year." Then next year comes, the kid struggles, we finish middle to bottom of the Big 10, and we're back to "Look what we got coming next year." What is the the evidence that IU "has been getting better"?
What makes you think after 4 years that Archie's boys are going to shoot better?? Because Franklin has improved? Thank goodness he has, or we'd be getting our asses kicked repeatedly rather than hanging by a thread. The eye test says we ain't going anywhere
Looks to me like IU players are likely to make more of their shots. Reports are that they did well shooting in practices and in high school. The fact is that they haven't been making those shots...and what to do about it. Keep the hot hand in the game. And give them the opportunities. However....
What I see is that our guards are not performing at the level required in the B1G. Rob was when a freshman...but hasn't stepped it up...probably because of his concussion. He slows things down. Al is inconsistent. And Brunk is out.
Who is to blame? That is a question. I say that Indiana should give Archie Miller ample time. He performed well in Dayton and that is a good indicator. Doesn't mean he will be successful at Indiana in the B1G, no. Is anyone happy about IU's performance? No.
The Indiana University administration had the basketball program in the dumpster for decades. I think that Indiana's goofiness in the past put Archie Miller's recruiting way behind the curve. AD Glass may have thought that he was stabilizing the turnover at the HC level by keeping Crean. I did not like keeping Crean. I even thought that Crean was not a good fit at IU back as he was being hired. Same thing happened with Coach 'He who must not be named'.
I think that the question is really about how to get IU to the top of the B1G and to make great runs in the NCAAT. I believe that Indiana is getting those pieces into place. Just a few shots fall and IU wins all but the Texas game. Getting rid of our HC now just puts the program that much further behind the curve and it would take forever to get out of that fiasco.
So we keep an underperforming coach for several more years whose recruiting is actually heading backwards now after some good gets his first couple years.... so that we won't be further behind the curve??? How many years at the bottom of the B1G behind such perennial powerhouses as Rutgers and Penn St. will it take???
This thinking is one of the reasons we are a "has been blue blood" now.... Name another true blue blood program that would accept 4 years of complete ineptitude in the hopes that "the pieces are starting to come together"... Belein and UM was used as a template Archie's first 3 years.... I think we can safely say now that CAM is NOT John Belein
It hasn't been 4 years with Archie because we're in year 4. We have had 3 years of statistical improvement to include getting to the NCAA tournament last year if we had a tournament. We have to see how year 4 goes but the defense so far has made another step up and if we get more out of the offense we'll have another year of improvement and another NCAA tournament. Losing Brunk has hurt us because the front court is too thin without him and forces playing Hunter out of position sometimes. We need Brunk back and we need other guards to improve their shooting like Franklin has. Shooting IS our problem and it looks improved sometimes. When we're shooting good all looks good with this team. But we can't keep it going enough. Make the bad shooting periods shorter and we've got a team that can beat any team in the B1G and make a run in the tournament. This season isn't over and we need to let it play out. It could end up great or bad or something in between!
Posters keep pointing out that Archie will be here not less than one more year because of his 100% buy out. They're right and I don't get why people don't understand that. Archie is our coach and will be next year so let's hope for continued improvement and some good showings in the NCAA tournament!
Coach K. First three years Duke was 5th, 6th, then 7th in Duke's conference. Year 2 Duke was 11 - 17 and year 3 Duke was 10 - 17.
Now, as I remember it, Duke kept Coach K.
So, according to the poster's logic, Archie Miller is better than Coach K.
Better hang on to Archie!
We're in the fourth year, it's not after four years. Franklin has improved and appears to be a legitimate shooter now. He's clearly worked on it. Durham and Phinisee have shot better over their careers so they should start shooting better. Hunter shot very well at the end of last year and no reason to believe he can't start doing that again. You're a real glass half empty kind of guy, aren't you?
I really don't care about any excuses, conditions, etc. at this point in time. I want to see results. I want to see wins. If Archie can't construct a roster, recruit, produce consistent offense, or win at this point in time, then he should be yanked and somebody else deserves a shot. My patience is very close to being at an end, if not already.We're in the fourth year, it's not after four years. Franklin has improved and appears to be a legitimate shooter now. He's clearly worked on it. Durham and Phinisee have shot better over their careers so they should start shooting better. Hunter shot very well at the end of last year and no reason to believe he can't start doing that again. You're a real glass half empty kind of guy, aren't you?
Cash isn't the issue. Knowing the replacement is.
The BOT likely won't stop Dolson from pulling the trigger as they did with Glass/Crean. Absent a miraculous turnaround he will be done no later than the end of next season and that extra year is due to covid.
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