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The Active Shooter Thread

And that's exactly why people like Joe and Ladoga are full of it. "If you can't prevent all deaths, you shouldn't do anything" is essentially what they are arguing.
You respond to your own wild imagination or tendency to twist other peoples' words. I did not say that. If you don't know that, you're not fit to argue anything. Wait....
Oh. You missed again. You almost always miss the points made here. You really should give it up.
 
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You respond to your own wild imagination or tendency to twist other peoples' words. I did not say that. If you don't know that, you're not fit to argue anything. Wait....
Oh. You missed again. You almost always miss the points made here. You really should give it up.
I'm not twisting your words. I'm just restating them more honestly. If I'm wrong, then please give us a list of gun restrictions that you'd support, even though they wouldn't prevent all shootings.
 
Gawd. It’s disgusting that people like you play the ROI card when countering reasonable gun policy.
Post your real "reasonable gun policy" then. It has to be possible to be enacted into law by a legislative body - they don't enact newspaper articles or message board posts . Give us the law you'd support to stop these shootings. Stop attacking people and put your policy on here. I've requested that several times. Not one piece of legislation - eve in outline form - has been put forward from the left. Makes one wonder if you lefties don't want more and more of these shooting to use for your electoral political purposes. You sure as hell aren't advocating anything that would help fix the problem.
 
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You respond to your own wild imagination or tendency to twist other peoples' words. I did not say that. If you don't know that, you're not fit to argue anything. Wait....
Oh. You missed again. You almost always miss the points made here. You really should give it up.
It would help if you’d just admit that you pasted talking points you received in a chain email this morning. Talking points that you’ll defend as facts in some arguments and make no claim to in others. You’re a garbage politician operative that has no business tainting minds.

Save it for the Cracker Barrel.
 
Post your real "reasonable gun policy" then. It has to be possible to be enacted into law by a legislative body - they don't enact newspaper articles or message board posts . Give us the law you'd support to stop these shootings. Stop attacking people and put your policy on here. I've requested that several times. Not one piece of legislation - eve in outline form - has been put forward from the left. Makes one wonder if you lefties don't want more and more of these shooting to use for your electoral political purposes. You sure as hell aren't advocating anything that would help fix the problem.
I don’t know why I’m wasting my time with you but at a high level my policy would be:
  1. Make semi-automatic rifles/carbines illegal and any other devices that could be used to turn a bolt action or lever gun rifle into a high rate of fire weapon. Yes, I know that some people can shoot these guns at a high rate of fire naturally but they’re quite rare and highly trained trick shooters. We can probably agree on a reasonable list of excepted weapons (eg M1s from WWII).
  2. Stop all new sales of these weapons immediately.
  3. Establish a buy back program and exchange program that pays market value for the weapon being turned in or exchanges for a pistol or shotgun or non-SA rifle of approximate value.
  4. Declare an amnesty period where those who are still harboring these weapons must turn them in.
  5. Prosecute upon finding any remaining illegal weapons. I’m not saying house to house search.
Edit: forgot my carrot in the whole thing: domestic ownership is what I would criminalize. If you want to keep it/then at a sporting club / range then that is fine. The weapons are to be locked in an approved specification arms room with buttstock counts required daily a la the military. It doesn’t leave the range.
 
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It would help if you’d just admit that you pasted talking points you received in a chain email this morning. Talking points that you’ll defend as facts in some arguments and make no claim to in others. You’re a garbage politician operative that has no business tainting minds.

Save it for the Cracker Barrel.
Haha! Good call. He did just copy and paste from one of several online gun communities.

From defensivecarry.com message boards:
What DIDN’T stop today’s school shooting:
- Maryland’s assault weapon ban
- Maryland’s 10-round magazine limit
- Maryland’s universal background check requirement
- Maryland’s law requiring an exhaustive application process to obtain a permit to purchase a handgun
- Maryland’s law prohibiting purchase of more than one firearm per month
- Maryland’s law requiring handgun registration
- Maryland’s law requiring licensing of handgun owners
- Maryland’s extremely limited approval of concealed carry permits
- Maryland’s refusal to honor any concealed carry permit from another state
- Federal law prohibiting handgun possession for people under 21
- Laws against carrying without a permit
- Gun free zone laws
- Laws against discharging a firearm in public
- Laws against attempted murder

What DID stop today’s school shooting:
- An armed person at the scene who engaged the shooter in less than a minute

Also found on the 3 Percenters (paramilitary enthusiast) Facebook page, and from the Virginia Citizens Defense League, among several others.

I can't believe I actually considered the possibility he came up with all that himself.
 
I'm not twisting your words. I'm just restating them more honestly. If I'm wrong, then please give us a list of gun restrictions that you'd support, even though they wouldn't prevent all shootings.
The only one I've advocated which is not on the books is this. You're gonna soil yourself. Everyone in America who is taking or has taken drugs prescribed by a medical professional or mental health professional AND everyone in America who has been diagnosed by such professional shall be reported, including all known contact information to the Department of Homeland Security and such contact information together with the written diagnosis and treatment provided shall be placed in the same data bases now used to run background checks for gun purchases. If they are on the data base, they cannot purchase and have 30 days to lodge an appeal to DHS and/or to request a hearing within 180 days of the purchase denial to request a change of status and removal from the data base for good cause shown to an appellate body within DHS. Since the right denied is Constitutional, surely there would need to be judicial review of these determinations.
There ye are.

Oh one more I've never posted. No carry, concealed carry or permit or license of any kind shall ever be required to allow a citizen of the United States to own, posses or carry upon his person any firearm which is lawful to own in the United states when owned by a person who is not the holder of a Federal Firearms license.

How dare the government think it can require a license to exercise a Constitutional right.

Anyone here got a better idea?
Post it.

If yours is not a better idea, don't post it. We have had pages by the score of terrible ideas. They don't work.
 
Haha! Good call. He did just copy and paste from one of several online gun communities.

From defensivecarry.com message boards:
What DIDN’T stop today’s school shooting:
- Maryland’s assault weapon ban
- Maryland’s 10-round magazine limit
- Maryland’s universal background check requirement
- Maryland’s law requiring an exhaustive application process to obtain a permit to purchase a handgun
- Maryland’s law prohibiting purchase of more than one firearm per month
- Maryland’s law requiring handgun registration
- Maryland’s law requiring licensing of handgun owners
- Maryland’s extremely limited approval of concealed carry permits
- Maryland’s refusal to honor any concealed carry permit from another state
- Federal law prohibiting handgun possession for people under 21
- Laws against carrying without a permit
- Gun free zone laws
- Laws against discharging a firearm in public
- Laws against attempted murder

What DID stop today’s school shooting:
- An armed person at the scene who engaged the shooter in less than a minute

Also found on the 3 Percenters (paramilitary enthusiast) Facebook page, and from the Virginia Citizens Defense League, among several others.

I can't believe I actually considered the possibility he came up with all that himself.
Holy God, @Ladoga, you literally just copy and pasted? How lazy are you?
 
Haha! Good call. He did just copy and paste from one of several online gun communities.

From defensivecarry.com message boards:
What DIDN’T stop today’s school shooting:
- Maryland’s assault weapon ban
- Maryland’s 10-round magazine limit
- Maryland’s universal background check requirement
- Maryland’s law requiring an exhaustive application process to obtain a permit to purchase a handgun
- Maryland’s law prohibiting purchase of more than one firearm per month
- Maryland’s law requiring handgun registration
- Maryland’s law requiring licensing of handgun owners
- Maryland’s extremely limited approval of concealed carry permits
- Maryland’s refusal to honor any concealed carry permit from another state
- Federal law prohibiting handgun possession for people under 21
- Laws against carrying without a permit
- Gun free zone laws
- Laws against discharging a firearm in public
- Laws against attempted murder

What DID stop today’s school shooting:
- An armed person at the scene who engaged the shooter in less than a minute

Also found on the 3 Percenters (paramilitary enthusiast) Facebook page, and from the Virginia Citizens Defense League, among several others.

I can't believe I actually considered the possibility he came up with all that himself.


Its in a huge amount of places and postings. Does that make it any less true? BUT for full transparency, and those who live under a rock, he should have cited it, somehow.
 
Haha! Good call. He did just copy and paste from one of several online gun communities.

From defensivecarry.com message boards:
What DIDN’T stop today’s school shooting:
- Maryland’s assault weapon ban
- Maryland’s 10-round magazine limit
- Maryland’s universal background check requirement
- Maryland’s law requiring an exhaustive application process to obtain a permit to purchase a handgun
- Maryland’s law prohibiting purchase of more than one firearm per month
- Maryland’s law requiring handgun registration
- Maryland’s law requiring licensing of handgun owners
- Maryland’s extremely limited approval of concealed carry permits
- Maryland’s refusal to honor any concealed carry permit from another state
- Federal law prohibiting handgun possession for people under 21
- Laws against carrying without a permit
- Gun free zone laws
- Laws against discharging a firearm in public
- Laws against attempted murder

What DID stop today’s school shooting:
- An armed person at the scene who engaged the shooter in less than a minute

Also found on the 3 Percenters (paramilitary enthusiast) Facebook page, and from the Virginia Citizens Defense League, among several others.

I can't believe I actually considered the possibility he came up with all that himself.
Yes, Sir I sure did. It was posted on Facebook. Have you made up some wild rule about that now?

And aren't you the cock of the walk.
Instead of writing something coherent about the thread, you went out and found the article. You're a friggin' genius.
But here's yer trouble. That list is true and accurate and you are powerless to change that - though that must frost you plenty.
 
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Haha! Good call. He did just copy and paste from one of several online gun communities.

From defensivecarry.com message boards:
What DIDN’T stop today’s school shooting:
- Maryland’s assault weapon ban
- Maryland’s 10-round magazine limit
- Maryland’s universal background check requirement
- Maryland’s law requiring an exhaustive application process to obtain a permit to purchase a handgun
- Maryland’s law prohibiting purchase of more than one firearm per month
- Maryland’s law requiring handgun registration
- Maryland’s law requiring licensing of handgun owners
- Maryland’s extremely limited approval of concealed carry permits
- Maryland’s refusal to honor any concealed carry permit from another state
- Federal law prohibiting handgun possession for people under 21
- Laws against carrying without a permit
- Gun free zone laws
- Laws against discharging a firearm in public
- Laws against attempted murder

What DID stop today’s school shooting:
- An armed person at the scene who engaged the shooter in less than a minute

Also found on the 3 Percenters (paramilitary enthusiast) Facebook page, and from the Virginia Citizens Defense League, among several others.

I can't believe I actually considered the possibility he came up with all that himself.
It never entered in my mind that he came up with those himself. clear as day talking points and ones he can easily back away from or say that you’re misunderstanding. It’s a hack job.
 
Haha! Good call. He did just copy and paste from one of several online gun communities.

From defensivecarry.com message boards:
What DIDN’T stop today’s school shooting:
- Maryland’s assault weapon ban
- Maryland’s 10-round magazine limit
- Maryland’s universal background check requirement
- Maryland’s law requiring an exhaustive application process to obtain a permit to purchase a handgun
- Maryland’s law prohibiting purchase of more than one firearm per month
- Maryland’s law requiring handgun registration
- Maryland’s law requiring licensing of handgun owners
- Maryland’s extremely limited approval of concealed carry permits
- Maryland’s refusal to honor any concealed carry permit from another state
- Federal law prohibiting handgun possession for people under 21
- Laws against carrying without a permit
- Gun free zone laws
- Laws against discharging a firearm in public
- Laws against attempted murder

What DID stop today’s school shooting:
- An armed person at the scene who engaged the shooter in less than a minute

Also found on the 3 Percenters (paramilitary enthusiast) Facebook page, and from the Virginia Citizens Defense League, among several others.

I can't believe I actually considered the possibility he came up with all that himself.


Well now he's going to disappear again. Maybe he'll come up with a new name too. Maybe Roachdale or something.
 
The only one I've advocated which is not on the books is this. You're gonna soil yourself. Everyone in America who is taking or has taken drugs prescribed by a medical professional or mental health professional AND everyone in America who has been diagnosed by such professional shall be reported, including all known contact information to the Department of Homeland Security and such contact information together with the written diagnosis and treatment provided shall be placed in the same data bases now used to run background checks for gun purchases. If they are on the data base, they cannot purchase and have 30 days to lodge an appeal to DHS and/or to request a hearing within 180 days of the purchase denial to request a change of status and removal from the data base for good cause shown to an appellate body within DHS. Since the right denied is Constitutional, surely there would need to be judicial review of these determinations.
There ye are.

Oh one more I've never posted. No carry, concealed carry or permit or license of any kind shall ever be required to allow a citizen of the United States to own, posses or carry upon his person any firearm which is lawful to own in the United states when owned by a person who is not the holder of a Federal Firearms license.

How dare the government think it can require a license to exercise a Constitutional right.

Anyone here got a better idea?
Post it.

If yours is not a better idea, don't post it. We have had pages by the score of terrible ideas. They don't work.
1. You have to get a permit to legally assemble if the group is large enough
 
Its in a huge amount of places and postings. Does that make it any less true? BUT for full transparency, and those who live under a rock, he should have cited it, somehow.
Actually, much of it probably isn't true. As Ranger has already pointed out, for example, Maryland's "assault weapon" ban may have prevented deaths, because the killer had a less deadly weapon.

All that said, it doesn't matter if the individual statements are true. It matters what the hell someone intends to argue by sharing them. As Ladoga has now made clear, his point is that he opposes virtually all gun control provisions, regardless of their efficacy. He can't even offer the one example of a new law he'd support without adding in the fact that he'd also like to ban all firearm licensures as a violation of Constitutional rights, presumably because saying something even remotely anti-gun made a large portion of his brain revolt.
 
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Its in a huge amount of places and postings. Does that make it any less true? BUT for full transparency, and those who live under a rock, he should have cited it, somehow.
Oh yes, groups on The Facebook are a tremendous source for reliable info! Just today I saw that Obama and Trump are lizard people!

It’s not “true.” It’s the type of lazy thinking that would get an F on any high school level analysis/research.

If that’s truly how you get information, I feel sorry for you.
 
It never entered in my mind that he came up with those himself. clear as day talking points and ones he can easily back away from or say that you’re misunderstanding. It’s a hack job.
Yeah, I feel like an idiot. I guess that's normal when I stoop to actually engaging him, though. I've certainly never left a conversation with Ladoga smarter than I was when I started.
 
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1. You have to get a permit to legally assemble if the group is large enough
In some places and in some circumstances, that is the case. I'll join you in supporting an amendment to remove that limitation from the 1st Amendment thus negating all such limitations. Maybe we could do that at an Article V Convention. OK?

1st Amendment (cut and pasted)
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
 
Well now he's going to disappear again. Maybe he'll come up with a new name too. Maybe Roachdale or something.
I have enough handles and passwords to last a while.

But this is Wednesday and Wednesday is my day to watch you people.
 
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Actually, much of it probably isn't true. As Ranger has already pointed out, for example, Maryland's "assault weapon" ban may have prevented deaths, because the killer had a less deadly weapon.

All that said, it doesn't matter if the individual statements are true. It matters what the hell someone intends to argue by sharing them. As Ladoga has now made clear, his point is that he opposes virtually all gun control provisions, regardless of their efficacy. He can't even offer the one example of a new law he'd support without adding in the fact that he'd also like to ban all firearm licensures as a violation of Constitutional rights, presumably because saying something even remotely anti-gun made a large portion of his brain revolt.
Efficacy is no excuse for abridgment of a Constitutional Right. Liberals think its ok if it helps their agenda or makes them feel good, but the relative utility of a law doesn't not make it meet Constitutional muster. But you know all that or you should.
 
How dare the government think it can require a license to exercise a Constitutional right.

So, should I have a right to own a Browning M2? An Abrams M1A2? An F-22 Raptor? Minuteman III ICBM? An M777 Howitzer? A nuclear warhead? We largely don't allow those because we think their value is less than their danger. So at some point, we agree. The question is, where does the value become greater than the risk.
 
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Efficacy is no excuse for abridgment of a Constitutional Right. Liberals think its ok if it helps their agenda or makes them feel good, but the relative utility of a law doesn't not make it meet Constitutional muster. But you know all that or you should.
LOL. Actually, the utility of a law does have a bearing on it's Constitutionality, but I doubt you know that.
 
Oh yes, groups on The Facebook are a tremendous source for reliable info! Just today I saw that Obama and Trump are lizard people!

It’s not “true.” It’s the type of lazy thinking that would get an F on any high school level analysis/research.

If that’s truly how you get information, I feel sorry for you.


So you are saying the list isn’t true, right? How about we debunk it, start with the bottom.
Don’t murder ( paraphrase of course).... if this is false we will move up to the next one.

Thanks for playing rbb.
 
Yes, Sir I sure did. It was posted on Facebook. Have you made up some wild rule about that now?

And aren't you the cock of the walk.
Instead of writing something coherent about the thread, you went out and found the article. You're a friggin' genius.
But here's yer trouble. That list is true and accurate and you are powerless to change that - though that must frost you plenty.
You. Got. It. From. Facebook.

You can’t come on here and rant about biased media while also pasting idiotic memes from Facebook groups. You don’t see how freaking stupid that is?

And why is 90% of your post italicized?
 
So you are saying the list isn’t true, right? How about we debunk it, start with the bottom.
Don’t murder ( paraphrase of course).... if this is false we will move up to the next one.

Thanks for playing rbb.
Oh my Lord.
 
I have enough handles and passwords to last a while.

But this is Wednesday and Wednesday is my day to watch you people.
Isn’t it a violation of site rules to have multiple handles?

You are insane.
 
Its in a huge amount of places and postings. Does that make it any less true? BUT for full transparency, and those who live under a rock, he should have cited it, somehow.
What a surprise that I haven't seen it anywhere. I guess that means my social media and group of friends are of a different mind than yours and Lagoda. Shocking, I know.
 
There is another unknown in the Maryland shooting, what was the shooter's goal? It is said he had been in a relationship with the girl he shot, it could be he went there targeting only her and the other boy got in the way. Or it could be he wanted both of them and no one else. It is hard to say why this shooting was less damaging. It may have been the pistol, it may have been intent, it may have been the resource officer.
 
There is another unknown in the Maryland shooting, what was the shooter's goal? It is said he had been in a relationship with the girl he shot, it could be he went there targeting only her and the other boy got in the way. Or it could be he wanted both of them and no one else. It is hard to say why this shooting was less damaging. It may have been the pistol, it may have been intent, it may have been the resource officer.

From what I've seen, there aren't reports of a large number of shots fired. That by itself makes it much different than Parkland or Vegas. It's sort of like the mall shooting that started this thread. That was a guy shooting his ex-wife and then himself.
 
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I don’t know why I’m wasting my time with you but at a high level my policy would be:
  1. Make semi-automatic rifles/carbines illegal and any other devices that could be used to turn a bolt action or lever gun rifle into a high rate of fire weapon. Yes, I know that some people can shoot these guns at a high rate of fire naturally but they’re quite rare and highly trained trick shooters. We can probably agree on a reasonable list of excepted weapons (eg M1s from WWII).
  2. Stop all new sales of these weapons immediately.
  3. Establish a buy back program and exchange program that pays market value for the weapon being turned in or exchanges for a pistol or shotgun or non-SA rifle of approximate value.
  4. Declare an amnesty period where those who are still harboring these weapons must turn them in.
  5. Prosecute upon finding any remaining illegal weapons. I’m not saying house to house search.
Edit: forgot my carrot in the whole thing: domestic ownership is what I would criminalize. If you want to keep it/then at a sporting club / range then that is fine. The weapons are to be locked in an approved specification arms room with buttstock counts required daily a la the military. It doesn’t leave the range.
Note my challenge was that your proposal has to be capable of being enacted. Confiscating (making the semi-automatic rifles/carbine illegal) rifles is impossible and would certainly lead to a shooting war with the government on one side - the confiscation side - and that could NEVER pass. Prohibiting sales of those weapons is not as terrible and the first idea but terrible enough to be impossible to enact. There is no market value to contraband. Thats another bad idea that couldn't pass Congress. Amnesty to delay compliance with a terrible law - even worse idea? No chance to be enacted. THEN after enacting those horribles, you want law enforcement to arrest and imprison those who, in good faith, believe their right to keep and bear arms is what the SCOTUS says it is - an individual right that they can enforce. Every one of those ideas is the ranting of a wacko - surely those aren't your original thoughts. I disagree with most of what you post, but never thought you wacko. Those are target and hunting rifles you'd outlaw, confiscate and prosecute possession of. Its a shame. Rancher in Wyoming (or name lots of other places) has predators after his cattle/sheep/chickens. He could own the rifle used to shoot the predators?
 
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There is another unknown in the Maryland shooting, what was the shooter's goal? It is said he had been in a relationship with the girl he shot, it could be he went there targeting only her and the other boy got in the way. Or it could be he wanted both of them and no one else. It is hard to say why this shooting was less damaging. It may have been the pistol, it may have been intent, it may have been the resource officer.
Don't let the pistol fool you. The largest mass shooting in American history was done by one person with two handguns at Virginia Tech.
 
Note my challenge was that your proposal has to be capable of being enacted. Confiscating (making the semi-automatic rifles/carbine illegal) rifles is impossible and would certainly lead to a shooting war with the government on one side - the confiscation side - and that could NEVER pass. Prohibiting sales of those weapons is not as terrible and the first idea but terrible enough to be impossible to enact. There is no market value to contraband. Thats another bad idea that couldn't pass Congress. Amnesty to delay compliance with a terrible law - even worse idea? No chance to be enacted. THEN after enacting those horribles, you want law enforcement to arrest and imprison those who, in good faith, believe their right to keep and bear arms is what the SCOTUS says it is - an individual right that they can enforce. Every one of those ideas is the ranting of a wacko - surely those aren't your original thoughts. I disagree with most of what you post, but never thought you wacko. Those are target and hunting rifles you'd outlaw, confiscate and prosecute possession of. Its a shame. Rancher in Wyoming (or name lots of other places) has predators after his cattle/sheep/chickens. He could own the rifle used to shoot the predators?
You’re full of nonsense. If a rancher needs a 30rnd magazine of 0.223 to kill chicken predators he’s not qualified to be a rancher. I said levers and bolts are fine as are .22 LR-firing rounds.

And the rest of your post is further nonsense and doesn’t address what I wrote. I said no house to house search. But, to your point, if some jackass that thinks like you wants to militia up and go to war with the government I say GO. FOR. IT.
 
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Don't let the pistol fool you. The largest mass shooting in American history was done by one person with two handguns at Virginia Tech.
Liar. Use Google.

Back to the Cracker Barrel porch with you.
 
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