Tedros Under Fire

Discussion in 'The Water Cooler' started by mohoosier, Apr 6, 2020.

  1. JamieDimonsBalls

    JamieDimonsBalls All-Big Ten
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    Did he declare it a pandemic yet or he still waiting?
     
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  2. TheOriginalHappyGoat

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    Good Lord, you people are just absolutely crazy.
     
  3. Hoopsdoc1978

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    Are you saying the one million are crazy or JDB and MO? Or both?

    I think there is legitimate reason to criticize the WHO, especially wrt China.
     
  4. IUCrazy2

    IUCrazy2 Hall of Famer
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    The guy is a Chinese puppet.

    I have said it before but will say it again, when this is all over, China needs to be called to the floor and so do the lackeys they have in the global system.
     
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  5. mashnut

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    I just want to be clear that the major problem people have with this guy is that he reinforced likely incomplete information from China and used that to recommend policy which likely led to unnecessarily increased spread and deaths.

    That sounds so familiar, it seems like someone here in the US praised the Chinese response, downplayed the severity based on Xi's misinformation, and used that to drive policy that delayed mitigation measures. I'm fine with looking back at all the people (including Tedros) who helped make this worse than it needs to be, but that undercuts the argument we keep seeing on this board that Trump bears no responsibility and we should only be blaming the Chinese government.
     
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  6. TheOriginalHappyGoat

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    JDB and Mo.
     
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  7. IUCrazy2

    IUCrazy2 Hall of Famer
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    I know it is all Trump, Ytump, Trump for you guys...I feel like he had been proven to be ahead of the curve on several things though. Also, I think people get more caught up in what he says as opposed to what he does.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/04/consider-possibility-trump-right-china/609493/
     
  8. mashnut

    mashnut Freshman
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    How about you explain the difference between your angst about Trump getting any flak, and your need to post in this thread about some other guy who needs to be taking flak? It's not all about Trump for me, I'm very happy to play the blame game and share it around between China, The WHO, Trump, and other world leaders. Are you? Or are you only here to make sure the finger gets pointed anywhere other than at the leader who has failed the people of this country? For someone who supposedly is on the America-first train I'd think that's where your biggest worry would be.
     
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  9. IUCrazy2

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    Why don't you start with why Trump is to blame for the disease. He shut off travel. They have reacted and attempted to get PPE (supplies of which were depleted by the prior administration. And the PPE is being hoarded by someone...

    https://nypost.com/2020/04/05/trump-admin-weighs-legal-action-over-alleged-chinese-hoarding-of-ppe/

    You all were afraid he would declare martial law and put himself in charge and now you are pissed that he isn't locking things down and putting it under his control. "He has said he thinks it will be alright..." Yeah he did, when people were panic buying out grocery stores. Who gives a **** what he was saying if the steps he was doing were in line with getting things under control.

    You want to say that we were underprepared for this? Fine, I agree. But that did not suddenly happen because Trump.

    And why am I interested in blaming China and the WHO? Because the rest of the world was putting their response together based on the bull shit data they were sharing. It is akin to having cancer but your doctor telling you for months not too worry because it is just a mole. Then you catching the blame for not cutting it off because of that data. And to top it off, in this scenario your doctor knew it was cancer but he wanted to keep that from you for reporting purposes.

    So in that case I blame China and the WHO (the doctor in this scenario) quite a bit more than Trump and the rest of the world (the patient in this case.)

    Additionally, the idiots like Joe Biden who are wanting a vote to run this country were saying it was racist and xenophobic to block travel when Trump did. That has proved to be stupid as hell and even geriatric brain addled Joe Biden has come along on that point, but based on where he was at when Ttump did that for China and then Europe, I believe that we would have been worse off with others in charge.
     
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  10. mashnut

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    What was xenophobic was the way the "travel ban" was enacted. It didn't stop the infection, it stopped specific people. More than 40k people have travelled to the US from China since that was enacted. He put in place something for show rather than something that would actually help.

    We know that China's government is a bad actor. You have been screaming about that during all the tariff conversations. Now suddenly it's China's fault that Trump believed Xi instead of his own intelligence community, defense advisors, and health advisors who all told him it was more serious than China was letting on. You gotta pick a side on that one to have any credibility here.
     
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  11. Hoopsdoc1978

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    If I’m not mistaken, the 40,000 were mostly Americans, who had to be allowed to come home, and were all quarantined at some level.
     
  12. T.M.P.

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    Why don't you start with why Trump is to blame for the disease.
    • He's not to blame for it. Though he does deserve blame for his lack of timely response and incompetence. But this is what happens you have a president who doesn't read intel briefings. .
    He shut off travel.
    • Too late.
    They have reacted and attempted to get PPE
    • Too late.
    And the PPE is being hoarded by someone.
    • Sure pal .. probably the deep state and liberals, right?


    .
     
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  13. mashnut

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    I agree that keeping a good portion of those people out would have been legally problematic. I don't agree that any real effort to monitor and ensure compliance with self-quarantining happened, I'd love to see evidence to the contrary but I've mostly seen people saying they walked off those planes without any screening or special instructions.

    I also think it's very disingenuous to admit to those major holes in the "travel ban" and still tout it as some miraculous solution Trump came up with that he should get credit for.
     
  14. cosmickid

    cosmickid All-American
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    "Why don't you start with why Trump is to blame for the disease. He shut off travel. They have reacted and attempted to get PPE (supplies of which were depleted by the prior administration. And the PPE is being hoarded by someone..."

    Supplies were "depleted" because both swine flu and ebola were issues the previous Admin had to deal with. And remind me which Party had control of both Houses of Congress from 2010-2018? This whole notion of "Trump being faced with depletion" might have a shred of credibility if we were facing this crisis in March/April 2017. However, it IS March/April 2020- 3+ yrs into the Trump regime.
    And Trump did scrap the Pandemic response team (over Fauci's concerns) in 2018...

    https://apnews.com/ce014d94b64e98b7203b873e56f80e9a

    And more analysis on the "depletion issue"...

    "After the first alarms sounded in early January that an outbreak of a novel coronavirus in China might ignite a global pandemic, the Trump administration squandered nearly two months that could have been used to bolster the federal stockpile of critically needed medical supplies and equipment.

    A review of federal purchasing contracts by The Associated Press shows federal agencies largely waited until mid-March to begin placing bulk orders of N95 respirator masks, mechanical ventilators and other equipment needed by front-line health care workers.

    By that time, hospitals in several states were treating thousands of infected patients without adequate equipment and were pleading for shipments from the Strategic National Stockpile. That federal cache of supplies was created more than 20 years ago to help bridge gaps in the medical and pharmaceutical supply chains during a national emergency."

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-wasted-months-preparing-virus-122411806.html

    "You want to say that we were underprepared for this? Fine, I agree. But that did not suddenly happen because Trump."

    Well, there is certainly evidence that Trump's obsession with de-Obamatizing the country, along with his business-oriented desire to shrink Govt, at the very least CONTRIBUTED... Again from the same article cited above...

    "The NSC directorate for global health and security and bio-defense survived the transition from President Barack Obama to Trump in 2017.

    Trump’s elimination of the office suggested, along with his proposed budget cuts for the CDC, that he did not see the threat of pandemics in the same way that many experts in the field did.

    “One year later I was mystified when the White House dissolved the office, leaving the country less prepared for pandemics like COVID-19,” Beth Cameron, the first director of the unit, wrote in an op-ed Friday in The Washington Post.

    She said the directorate was set up to be the “smoke alarm” and get ahead of emergencies and sound a warning at the earliest sign of fire — “all with the goal of avoiding a six-alarm fire.”

    It’s impossible to assess the impact of the 2018 decision to disband the unit, she said. Cameron noted that biological experts remain at the White House, but she says it’s clear that eliminating the office contributed to what she called a “sluggish domestic response.” She said that shortly before Trump took office, the unit was watching a rising number of cases in China of a deadly strain of the flu and a yellow fever outbreak in Angola.

    “It’s unclear whether the decision to disband the directorate, which was made in May 2018, after John Bolton became national security adviser, was a tactical move to downgrade the issue or whether it was part of the White House’s interest in simplifying and shrinking the National Security Council staff,” Cameron says."

    Another assertion you make...

    "And why am I interested in blaming China and the WHO? Because the rest of the world was putting their response together based on the bull shit data they were sharing. It is akin to having cancer but your doctor telling you for months not too worry because it is just a mole. Then you catching the blame for not cutting it off because of that data. And to top it off, in this scenario your doctor knew it was cancer but he wanted to keep that from you for reporting purposes.

    So in that case I blame China and the WHO (the doctor in this scenario) quite a bit more than Trump and the rest of the world (the patient in this case.)"

    China notified the WHO on Dec 31st. So let's look at Trump's January comments and actions...

    "President Trump made his first public comments about the coronavirus on Jan. 22, in a television interview from Davos with CNBC’s Joe Kernen. The first American case had been announced the day before, and Kernen asked Trump, “Are there worries about a pandemic at this point?”

    The president responded: “No. Not at all. And we have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China, and we have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.”

    I'll just interject that this was 2 days before the CDC/Intelligence Services briefing to the Senate Intelligence Committee that resulted in both Burr and Loeffler selling off stock...


    "By this point, the seriousness of the virus was becoming clearer. It had spread from China to four other countries. China was starting to take drastic measures and was on the verge of closing off the city of Wuhan."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/15/opinion/trump-coronavirus.html
     
  15. HillzHoozier

    HillzHoozier All-American
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    dumb
     
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  16. i'vegotwinners

    i'vegotwinners All-American
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    it's not a pandemic till he gets it.

    kind of like with a depression.
     
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  17. mohoosier

    mohoosier Hall of Famer
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    Some trust the Chinese, some don’t. I live amongst a large representation of Chinese Americans that are firmly planted in the latter, and they aren’t crazy as you suppose.
     
  18. Hoopsdoc1978

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    I don’t think you can call allowing people back in because they’re citizens and you really have no choice a “hole” in the travel ban.

    I guess you can, but he shouldn’t be blamed for it.
     
  19. ribbont

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    You left out some details on the timeline. WHO was alreted Dec 31 by China of a pneumonia type illness. Jan 11th, WHO named it Covid 19. Jan 21st, WHO made its first field study. So the first 20 days was information China shared.

    Jan 21st is also the day Dr. Fauci stated the virus was not a major threat. Apparently, Trump listened to the expert and repeated that information the next day, as you stated. And the statement:
    "By this point, the seriousness of the virus was becoming clearer" is not supported by fact.

    Jan 17, CDC ordered Americans flying back to be rerouted to be checked.

    Jan 30, WHO declared emergency and CDC reported human to human transmission. Jan 31, Trump declared emergency and travel ban. Swiss cheese ban? Maybe. But a step. Unlike Bernie who said he wanted open borders and Biden, who stated nothing really, just implied it was xenophobic, but no real plan that I can find.

    So when people want to blame Trump for the lost month of January, I call BS.

    Now February is a different story. Once the CDC acknowledged human to human transmission, the administration had the opportunity to prepare. I am not sure if anyone told Trump to prepare and he refused. Or if he followed the CDC guidance, and didn't think is was going to be as serious. I am inclined to believe from a Reuters report that the FDA and CDC bickered a bit on the test and regulations slowed the process.

    Here I blame Trump as he, for some reason, reduced or eliminated the NCS office. Looks like a big mistake IMO.

    Now March seemed a bit better in getting things in line. Not perfect. Trump is still Trump and bloviates, brags, and says lots of stupid stuff. But I think and have posted, that I think Gov Cuomo and DeBlasio really did not understand the severity. Unless someone can show me otherwise, I believe the failure not to shut down the subways to everyone except critical healthcare workers, exasperbated the problem and put the US in the problem it is now.

    Anyhow, I am tired of typing.
     
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  20. mashnut

    mashnut Freshman
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    So you and our intelligence community both agree that the Chinese government wasn’t forthright. Cool, I and most others are with you in that. Why is it then that somehow the president didn’t get that memo and trusted Xi’s story instead of his own advisors?

    Like I said, I agree that banning US citizens and residents would be difficult. I take issue with the “airtight” characterizations of trump’s “travel ban” and giving him credit for what you just admitted was a big leaky sieve allowing further spread into the US.
     
  21. Hoopsdoc1978

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    Who characterized it as “airtight”? I certainly didn’t. I said it was one of the good things he’s done. And it was. It helped.
     
  22. TheOriginalHappyGoat

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    The problem is the "travel ban" was basically the Dutch kid with his finger in the dike. It's not useless, but it's also not a fix. The adults are supposed to show up the next morning and fix the dike so the kid can go home. Early on, it seemed like Trump was banking everything on the kid.
     
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  23. sglowrider

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    The problem is that all these major measures were not followed up by the appropriate actions.

    Like banning flights -- what happens to the already in-country tendrils that would eventually develop into the community spread.
    Or like all the screaming for testing. Then what next? The next steps are actually hard work, on the ground stuff.

    Its almost treated like political jingoism or slogans.
     
  24. twenty02

    twenty02 Hall of Famer
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    Trump isn't the problem. His dismissiveness early wasn't helpful, but Trump doesn't run Europe that's been hit harder than we have.

    What matters now is how our overall govt responds over the next coming months.
     
  25. T.M.P.

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    Is that what you're calling it now?

    *eyeroll*
     
  26. twenty02

    twenty02 Hall of Famer
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    I'm trying to remain a beacon of positivity.
     
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  27. UncleMark

    UncleMark Hall of Famer
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    I'd be far less harsh in my judgement of Trump if he'd just knock it off with all the "perfect response" and "I'd give myself a 10" and "I take no responsibility" and "the shelves were bare" shit. Hindsight, second guessing, and Monday morning quarterbacking is one thing, but when the coach says "No, Lagow did not throw any interceptions, and I coached a perfect game", that's another.
     
  28. Standard Issue

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    You mean if he were a halfway normal, decent human being?
     
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  29. UncleMark

    UncleMark Hall of Famer
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    Yeah, I have pretty low standards.
     
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  30. Lucy01

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    Why would the WHO pick an Ethiopian as its Director, Probably a Muslim too.
     
  31. hoosboot

    hoosboot Hall of Famer
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    From the Rolling Stone review of the latest Lucy offering:

    "The tracks on early Lucy albums were much fresher and more biting than the current incarnation. Later Lucy has become complacent and comfortable, too distanced from the gritty roots that made early Lucy distinct...like a pale imitation of early Lucy trying to be more Lucy than any Lucy had been before."
     
  32. Lucy01

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    FYI,
    If you have to wipe your ass with a hamburger bun- make sure it’s not an onion roll!
     
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  33. cosmickid

    cosmickid All-American
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    Did you actually look?

    Because USA Today ran an op-ed from Biden on Jan 27, pointing out exactly what makes Trump the worst kind of leader during a Pandemic. Notice how on Jan 27, Biden already realized that we were battling a Pandemic, while Trump, on the other hand, was blubbering on about "only 15 people", and "we have it under control"...

    The key is that Biden related advisable steps based on the EXPERIENCE he gained fighting swine flu and Ebola outbreaks with Obama.

    "Pandemic diseases are a prime example of why international cooperation is a requirement of leadership in 2020. Diseases do not stop at borders. They cannot be thwarted by building a wall. We cannot keep ourselves safe without helping to keep others safe as well and without enlisting the help of other nations in return. And here’s the truth — the United States must step forward to lead these efforts, because no other nation has the resources, the reach or the relationships to marshal an effective international response.

    Cruel and unusual:Trump tweeted heartlessly about Ebola in 2014. He's ill-equipped to handle 2019 outbreak.

    That’s how we broke the infection curve on Ebola. In September 2014, CDC projections warned that over 1 million people could be infected if we failed to act. By February 2015, thanks to the leadership of our administration, the number of new Ebola cases was fewer than 400. A few months later, the epidemic was essentially extinguished.

    I will uphold science, not fiction or fear
    We brought the world together behind a response that only the United States could mobilize — including dispatching our military on a limited mission to help build the urgent infrastructure necessary to coordinate a massive global public health response, deploying American disaster assistance response teams to Africa, unleashing the NIH to help spur the discovery of new treatments and vaccines, protecting our citizens from potential cases of Ebola in the USA, and harnessing civilian expertise from the CDC at home and abroad.

    We acted over the chorus of uninformed objections from critics like Donald Trump, and more than 60 countries followed our lead, contributing over $2 billion, thousands of health professionals and personnel, and other critical resources like personal protective equipment. Just as important, we strengthened our focus on preparing for the next crisis."

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...us-less-prepared-joe-biden-column/4581710002/
     
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  34. stollcpa

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    You assigning any blame to this guy? Hopefully his decisions are better now than January.

    https://saraacarter.com/jan-flashba...hreat-to-the-people-of-the-united-states/amp/
     
  35. mashnut

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    Sure, though I’m not sure if he was privy to the intelligence reports coming to Trump. I’m fine with looking at Fauci’s full contributions, positive and negative, in my opinion what he’s done after that statement has been pretty positive. Got more fingers you want to point trying to catch someone else in a gotcha just to avoid admitting there’s fault on Trump’s part?
     
  36. stollcpa

    stollcpa Hall of Famer
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    I am sure Trump has made mistakes like anyone in his position would make. There’s no perfect answer in this situation. Seems to me he’s been following the scientist advice.

    Not looking for a fight which is why I deleted all my posts in this thread. Answered your response because I respect you. Good evening.
     
  37. TheOriginalHappyGoat

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    Fauci may very well have been too conservative in his early approach to the virus, but that doesn't change the fact that these criticisms of him take his comments wildly out of context. When you listen to the entire thing, he was clearly saying something more along the lines of, "We need to keep a close eye on this, of course, but as of right now, it is not a major threat to Americans."

    Again, in hindsight, even that may have been wrong, but it's still quite a bit different than what he's actually being accused of.
     
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  38. ribbont

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    Well, he really stated nothing. He rehashed Ebola, trashed Trump, would work with the world and listen to science.

    On Jan 27, nobody knew anything. 6 days earlier, Fauci said it was not a serious threat and Trump repeated that the next day. He listened to the scientists. And that was after listening to the world community (WHO).

    I stated Trump has made mistakes. Personally, I don't think his rah! rah! stuff was lying to us. I think it was more about not causing a panic. Heck, people were fighting over toilet paper.

    I blame Trump for the slow response likely due to his disbanding the response team. But I also blame Cuomo and DeBlasio for not closing down the subways sans critical personnel.

    Biden didn't say anything about what he would do, what steps he would take, etc. He just had someone write for him an op-ed with a bunch of nothing. No step by step about what he would do. Likely because he had little idea about what we were facing because we were not getting reliable info from China or WHO.
     
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  39. sglowrider

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