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Team/Staff Question

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Hoosier71

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Mar 11, 2009
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I confess that I didn't watch a ton of IU baseball this year, or in the past, beyond what was occasionally available on BTN. I follow them pretty regularly regarding their results, etc., though. It has struck me that this team has seemed to lack a certain "baseball IQ" in the sense of baserunning, consistent defensive execution, situation hitting/awareness, etc. For those who are much more familiar with the team, is this a talent issue or a coaching issue? Are their any corelations between any of the staff and these issues? Given that there seems to have been some consistently with these issues over the past few seasons, is there any possibility for any kind of shake up in the staff?

The results are, objectively, excellent and have been for the most part over the past few years. I'm certainly not suggesting that Lemonis really be taken to task or should be removed. I'm just wondering whether there are changes that could be made to improve these issues, because, these are the kinds of things that make the difference between being eliminated last night or playing tonight, with an opportunity to move on to the Super Regionals.
 
There are people on here that know far more about baseball than me, but I don't see any need for a staff shakeup. Yeah, we kind of slumped some over the latter part of the season, but in my mind, it was more of the players slumping some at the plate and making mental errors that the coaches really have little control over. We actually did well in the postseason, going 2-2 against some really good competition that included a Texas team that historically has had top teams, and an A&M team that led the SEC in staff ERA. Only Minnesota as a 1-seed playing at home has had better results from the B1G teams. I could go on and on, but that's some of my observations for what it's worth.
 
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ptrich said:
There are people on here that know far more about baseball than me, but I don't see any need for a staff shakeup. Yeah, we kind of slumped some over the latter part of the season, but in my mind, it was more of the players slumping some at the plate and making mental errors that the coaches really have little control over. We actually did well in the postseason, going 2-2 against some really good competition that included a Texas team that historically has had top teams, and an A&M team that led the SEC in staff ERA. Only Minnesota as a 1-seed playing at home has had better results from the B1G teams. I could go on and on, but that's some of my observations for what it's worth.
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I would think that If McDonnel takes the Mississippi State job we’ll be searching for a new coach anyway. He’d be crazy not to take the Louisville job if it’s offered to him. We should know pretty soon.
 
CF77 said:
I would think that If McDonnel takes the Mississippi State job we’ll be searching for a new coach anyway. He’d be crazy not to take the Louisville job if it’s offered to him. We should know pretty soon.
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My question is, why would you take the MSU job over Louisville? And believe me, I understand the historical significance of the MSU job and the rabidness of their fan base. I also understand the SEC is the big dog....but McConnell has turned Louisville into a FAR better program than MSU (imo) and he has the luxury of playing in the ACC and the schedule that goes with it.

I guess if your new AD isn't someone you gel with or if the other things going on at UL have changed things internally, but I just don't see that the ceiling is any higher or any easier to reach at MSU than it is for McConnell at Uof L. And I can't stand U of L.....
 
kraft cheese+macaroni said:
My question is, why would you take the MSU job over Louisville? And believe me, I understand the historical significance of the MSU job and the rabidness of their fan base. I also understand the SEC is the big dog....but McConnell has turned Louisville into a FAR better program than MSU (imo) and he has the luxury of playing in the ACC and the schedule that goes with it.

I guess if your new AD isn't someone you gel with or if the other things going on at UL have changed things internally, but I just don't see that the ceiling is any higher or any easier to reach at MSU than it is for McConnell at Uof L. And I can't stand U of L.....
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I think all these guys are just wired into knowing the SEC is where you need to end up. They just made the Supers. Maybe they make a real deep run and just keep their interim guy.
 
I don't think they need a staff shakeup after a 40-win season. They slumped mid-season, but also had some injuries.

The staff was surprised to get some upperclassmen back this year - like Sowers. That blocked some of the young kids. IU has a pretty solid young group of kids that just haven't played much bc they were blocked by older kids. Next year may not be great, but the next 2/3 years could be solid.

CL plays and preaches a very aggressive style of baseball. Watching that last Texas AM game, it was borderline head-scratching. That stuff is correctable - maybe CL will make a change on his staff or someone will take another job.

But all things considered, nothing major is necessary.
 
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Also - I personally think IUs early season ranking was over-inflated. If you look at who they beat, I don't think they were a top-10 team. I think that ranking gave a lot of people false/hyped expectations.

I think they were more of a top-25 team, not top-10.

They still competed in the end. Split with Texas AM and took Texas to the end - losing with the heart of their lineup at the plate with men in scoring position. IU wins that one - they would've had to beat Texas again to advance. They had a chance in the end - that's all you can ask for.
 
I was very surprised that Houston was allowed to hit in the ninth inning. He walked, so the result worked out, but I thought we would have put a left side pinch hitter in that situation. It was frustrating to have the bases loaded and not tie the game against Texas. I know it would have been tough to win twice there, but Duke and Tennessee Tech did it at Georgia and Ole Miss.
 
Thanks for the feedback on the my staff shakeup question. It didn't seem like their hitting or pitching was bad, but just generally seemed to be some issues with "attention to detail" type of things like baserunning and situational awareness. It could be a situation with me not being as familiar with the college game and general shortcomings that teams have in these areas.

As for McDonnell, I think that he will likely leave if given the opportunity at MSU and gets paid appropriately. I think he's likely maximized UofL's program and MSU presents an opportunity with some better upside, potentially. UofL is a good job now, being in the ACC, but MSU is just better currently and historically. The administrative turnover and turmoil at UofL is still not settled, so that has to play a factor.

Would Lemonis be a target for Louisville?
 
Hoosier71 said:
Thanks for the feedback on the my staff shakeup question. It didn't seem like their hitting or pitching was bad, but just generally seemed to be some issues with "attention to detail" type of things like baserunning and situational awareness. It could be a situation with me not being as familiar with the college game and general shortcomings that teams have in these areas.

As for McDonnell, I think that he will likely leave if given the opportunity at MSU and gets paid appropriately. I think he's likely maximized UofL's program and MSU presents an opportunity with some better upside, potentially. UofL is a good job now, being in the ACC, but MSU is just better currently and historically. The administrative turnover and turmoil at UofL is still not settled, so that has to play a factor.

Would Lemonis be a target for Louisville?
Click to expand...

Lemonis would be target #1, most likely. That's just my lightly educated opinion.
 
Bustout said:
I don't think they need a staff shakeup after a 40-win season. They slumped mid-season, but also had some injuries.

The staff was surprised to get some upperclassmen back this year - like Sowers. That blocked some of the young kids. IU has a pretty solid young group of kids that just haven't played much bc they were blocked by older kids. Next year may not be great, but the next 2/3 years could be solid.

CL plays and preaches a very aggressive style of baseball. Watching that last Texas AM game, it was borderline head-scratching. That stuff is correctable - maybe CL will make a change on his staff or someone will take another job.

But all things considered, nothing major is necessary.
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I would definitely like to see a new 3rd base coach. I'm not saying fire the guy (I think he's the recruiting coordinator), but get someone else at 3rd. Try switching 1st and 3rd. Try anything. Probably won't happen because it would be a touchy thing to do........

I would also hope they would tone down the aggressiveness leading off second. It was really bizarre. I've never seen any team have so many pick-offs& near-pick-offs at 2nd.....not to mention line-drive DPs off & 2nd.
 
mushroomgod_1 said:
Yes, and he would be a problem at UL.....he knows how to recruit Indiana.
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That's interesting. Definitely makes sense. Is there any possibility that he could be targeted by anyone else this offseason?

I haven't checked, but what is Tracy Smith's status at ASU?
 
kraft cheese+macaroni said:
Tenuous. Probably gets another year at least though.
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Yeah, I just checked and noticed that he had not been released. If Lemonis goes to UofL, who would be some good options for IU to look at? Would ISU's coach be an option? He has had some nice success playing a schedule pretty similar to what IU plays.
 
kraft cheese+macaroni said:
My question is, why would you take the MSU job over Louisville? And believe me, I understand the historical significance of the MSU job and the rabidness of their fan base. I also understand the SEC is the big dog....but McConnell has turned Louisville into a FAR better program than MSU (imo) and he has the luxury of playing in the ACC and the schedule that goes with it.

I guess if your new AD isn't someone you gel with or if the other things going on at UL have changed things internally, but I just don't see that the ceiling is any higher or any easier to reach at MSU than it is for McConnell at Uof L. And I can't stand U of L.....
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Looking at Wiki..........MSU averages about 5000 more fans per game than UL and the SEC average attendance is about 2x higher than the ACCs.......MSU may have more $ available to pay him, esp. given all of UL's recent troubles. Overall, baseball is still a much bigger deal at MSU than at UL. Kinda reminds me of Brett B. leaving Wisconsin football for Arkansas---just higher profile and more $ to go around......

College baseball history is a little different than I would have guessed.....for example, present Pac 12 schools have a total of 28 titles to 12 for SEC, 10 for Big 12 & 6 for ACC & Big 10. USC has 12 of those titles, but none since '95. LSU has 6 of the SEC's, SC 2. Ole Miss, MSU, Bama, and Auburn all have 0. But since 2000, SEC has 6 titles, Pac 12 4. Big Ten titles are Minnesota 3, UM 2, OSU 1. Only 3 ACC schools have won---Miami 4, Wake 1, Virginia 1. Interesting that FSU hasn't won one.
 
mushroomgod_1 said:
Looking at Wiki..........MSU averages about 5000 more fans per game than UL and the SEC average attendance is about 2x higher than the ACCs.......MSU may have more $ available to pay him, esp. given all of UL's recent troubles. Overall, baseball is still a much bigger deal at MSU than at UL. Kinda reminds me of Brett B. leaving Wisconsin football for Arkansas---just higher profile and more $ to go around......

College baseball history is a little different than I would have guessed.....for example, present Pac 12 schools have a total of 28 titles to 12 for SEC, 10 for Big 12 & 6 for ACC & Big 10. USC has 12 of those titles, but none since '95. LSU has 6 of the SEC's, SC 2. Ole Miss, MSU, Bama, and Auburn all have 0. But since 2000, SEC has 6 titles, Pac 12 4. Big Ten titles are Minnesota 3, UM 2, OSU 1. Only 3 ACC schools have won---Miami 4, Wake 1, Virginia 1. Interesting that FSU hasn't won one.
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Interesting regarding the history of the ACC. Without looking, I would have expected North Carolina, Clemson, and Georgia Tech to have possibly won a championship.
 
Hoosier71 said:
Interesting regarding the history of the ACC. Without looking, I would have expected North Carolina, Clemson, and Georgia Tech to have possibly won a championship.
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I may be wrong, but I think UVA was the only team to win one for the ACC when they were members of the ACC. There was some talk about the ACC not having won a title before when UVA won theirs a few years ago. And I'm pretty certain Miami's were all when they were independent.
 
kraft cheese+macaroni said:
I may be wrong, but I think UVA was the only team to win one for the ACC when they were members of the ACC. There was some talk about the ACC not having won a title before when UVA won theirs a few years ago. And I'm pretty certain Miami's were all when they were independent.
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Wow, that is really surprising, because I had just sort of assumed that the ACC had been a long-time power conference, given some the success their teams have had over the past several years, plus some of the overlap with the SEC footprint and knowing the success they have had.
 
Hoosier71 said:
That's interesting. Definitely makes sense. Is there any possibility that he could be targeted by anyone else this offseason?

I haven't checked, but what is Tracy Smith's status at ASU?
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It was posted under another thread that the ASU AD, in a postseason news conference, supports Coach Smith, but he stated that he expects significant improvement next season.
 
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Hoosier71 said:
Wow, that is really surprising, because I had just sort of assumed that the ACC had been a long-time power conference, given some the success their teams have had over the past several years, plus some of the overlap with the SEC footprint and knowing the success they have had.
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Actually the Big 12 # was 9, not 10....Of those 9, 6 were Texas. The other 3 were OK with 2 and OK St. with 1....I would have thought the Big 12 would have more...

As Kraft noted, not all the schools were in the same conference when they won as they are now.....that includes 1 for Missouri and most of the titles won by Arizona & ASU.

Surprising "0s" include Ole Miss, Miss St., Bama, Auborn, Nebraska, NC, Clemson, FSU....also, that Florida, Goergia, and UCLA all have only 1 each.
 
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Hoosier71 said:
Yeah, I just checked and noticed that he had not been released. If Lemonis goes to UofL, who would be some good options for IU to look at? Would ISU's coach be an option? He has had some nice success playing a schedule pretty similar to what IU plays.
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IIRC, last time Glass looked at Xavier's coach and UCincy's and/or Miami-Ohio's.

It's not clear to me that, if McDonnell left, Lem would automatically be UL's 1st choice to replace him. Think they'd do a national search. And I won't be surprised (assuming Lem stays at IU) if there's a staff shakeup and/or change in approach to overall hitting and offensive strategy--the team simply left too many guys on base this season and didn't always show fundamentally sound execution in scoring situations.

if either program does end up doing a national search, these are some well-regarded guys: https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/top-10-college-baseball-assistant-coaches-2018/
 
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welshman# said:
IIRC, last time Glass looked at Xavier's coach and UCincy's and/or Miami-Ohio's.

It's not clear to me that, if McDonnell left, Lem would automatically be UL's 1st choice to replace him. Think they'd do a national search. And I won't be surprised (assuming Lem stays at IU) if there's a staff shakeup and/or change in approach to overall hitting and offensive strategy--the team simply left too many guys on base this season and didn't always show fundamentally sound execution in scoring situations.

if either program does end up doing a national search, these are some well-regarded guys: https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/top-10-college-baseball-assistant-coaches-2018/
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It’s being reported just about everywhere that Lemo is choice 1 if McDonnell leaves. Even was discussed on air during the Tourney.[
 
CF77 said:
That would work to
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it would be fascinating to see MSU and UL get in a bidding war--in the old days, I've no doubt, Jurich would match any offer Miss State made (and know where to find the money to do it) but I don't know if the "new" regime at UL would want to take that approach.

It would also be interesting to see Glass' reaction if Lemonis were to leave--would he be happy with the IU program winning an occasional B1G tournament and a game or two in a regional, or would he see it as an opportunity to go bold and try to hire a "name" guy, either an assistant at a top-tier program like Vandy, Oregon State, UVA, TCU, etc., or a head guy at a smaller program like maybe Gilmore?

You could make an argument that IU baseball may be at least as well situated to be competitive nationally as IU football is, especially being stuck in the B1G East. The payoff wouldn't be nearly as big in baseball, at least in $$$, but the opportunity might be there.
 
welshman# said:
it would be fascinating to see MSU and UL get in a bidding war--in the old days, I've no doubt, Jurich would match any offer Miss State made (and know where to find the money to do it) but I don't know if the "new" regime at UL would want to take that approach.

It would also be interesting to see Glass' reaction if Lemonis were to leave--would he be happy with the IU program winning an occasional B1G tournament and a game or two in a regional, or would he see it as an opportunity to go bold and try to hire a "name" guy, either an assistant at a top-tier program like Vandy, Oregon State, UVA, TCU, etc., or a head guy at a smaller program like maybe Gilmore?

You could make an argument that IU baseball may be at least as well situated to be competitive nationally as IU football is, especially being stuck in the B1G East. The payoff wouldn't be nearly as big in baseball, at least in $$$, but the opportunity might be there.
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I doubt we''ll join a bidding war.

I'm sure baseball already is a significant $ loser. We won't pay anyone more than Lemonis if he leaves, imo. Maybe the same, maybe a little less.
 
welshman# said:
also being reported that UL will try to avoid having to choose a replacement if possible: https://www.courier-journal.com/sto...ell-mississippi-state-coaching-job/671799002/
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That would work to
mushroomgod_1 said:
I doubt we''ll join a bidding war.

I'm sure baseball already is a significant $ loser. We won't pay anyone more than Lemonis if he leaves, imo. Maybe the same, maybe a little less.
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His contract will be in its last year to in 2019. So either way I’d think he’d want a better deal to stay. Between the McDonnell stuff and that, Fred has some big decisions to make. Unfortunately, like you said, I don’t think Baseball is very high on the list as far as putting money towards. There are several assistant coaches in other sports making more than our head baseball coach. It is what it is I guess. Revenue coming in speaks loud
 
mushroomgod_1 said:
I would definitely like to see a new 3rd base coach. I'm not saying fire the guy (I think he's the recruiting coordinator), but get someone else at 3rd. Try switching 1st and 3rd. Try anything. Probably won't happen because it would be a touchy thing to do........

I would also hope they would tone down the aggressiveness leading off second. It was really bizarre. I've never seen any team have so many pick-offs& near-pick-offs at 2nd.....not to mention line-drive DPs off & 2nd.
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Those 2nd base leads are a prime example of being aggressive. The idea is to force a throw over there. If they air mail it, guy gets third.

Yeah - not sure what they'll do at 3rd base coach.

There will be plenty of interest in the IU job if CL leaves. One guy who I don't think would get it though is Googins at Cincy. He was assistant at IU. And HC at Xavier and now Cincy. I think they'll get a national search going and land a top guy/asst - similar to Purdues coach - Coach Woz. He won't be at Purdue long. Too good. Kinda like Brohm.

CL has had chances to leave, but hasn't yet. Eventually the warm(er) weather schools win out and may grab him.
 
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Bustout said:
Those 2nd base leads are a prime example of being aggressive. The idea is to force a throw over there. If they air mail it, guy gets third.

Yeah - not sure what they'll do at 3rd base coach.

There will be plenty of interest in the IU job if CL leaves. One guy who I don't think would get it though is Googins at Cincy. He was assistant at IU. And HC at Xavier and now Cincy. I think they'll get a national search going and land a top guy/asst - similar to Purdues coach - Coach Woz. He won't be at Purdue long. Too good. Kinda like Brohm.

CL has had chances to leave, but hasn't yet. Eventually the warm(er) weather schools win out and may grab him.
Click to expand...


I don't think he'd do a national search.

Instead I think they'd get a regional guy with Indiana recruiting connections. Some MAC school or schools like Butler, Cincy, Xavier or with serious Indiana connections. Maybe another assistant from UL or UK. Thing is, Indiana travel & HS baseball is pretty darn good. Why get a high profile SEC/west coast asst who's going to leave right away if he's successful? They'd rather have a guy who's relatively successful and will stay around more than a few years.
 
Bustout said:
Those 2nd base leads are a prime example of being aggressive. The idea is to force a throw over there. If they air mail it, guy gets third.

Yeah - not sure what they'll do at 3rd base coach.

There will be plenty of interest in the IU job if CL leaves. One guy who I don't think would get it though is Googins at Cincy. He was assistant at IU. And HC at Xavier and now Cincy. I think they'll get a national search going and land a top guy/asst - similar to Purdues coach - Coach Woz. He won't be at Purdue long. Too good. Kinda like Brohm.

CL has had chances to leave, but hasn't yet. Eventually the warm(er) weather schools win out and may grab him.
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Holy crap I had no idea Googs went to UC. What an odd move to go across town.

And he replaced Ty Neal, another former IU Asst. His resignation is a mystery to me too.
 
CF77 said:
That would work to


His contract will be in its last year to in 2019. So either way I’d think he’d want a better deal to stay. Between the McDonnell stuff and that, Fred has some big decisions to make. Unfortunately, like you said, I don’t think Baseball is very high on the list as far as putting money towards. There are several assistant coaches in other sports making more than our head baseball coach. It is what it is I guess. Revenue coming in speaks loud
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I went back and looked at the story when CL was hired.....said his total compensation was around $380000/yr(base salary was $25000/yr). That was said to be 2nd highest in the Big 10. The stories about the UL coach said he makes about $1M/yr. We're sure not going to pay CL $1M/year, but UL might.

If CL does leave, I think we can get a pretty good coach for $380000. If he stays we probably give him an extension of a few years for around $500000/yr. I'd sure be surprised if we give him a long-term contract at much more than that.
 
mushroomgod_1 said:
I doubt we''ll join a bidding war.

I'm sure baseball already is a significant $ loser. We won't pay anyone more than Lemonis if he leaves, imo. Maybe the same, maybe a little less.
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it's not a question of IU joining in a bidding war (the only sport IU seems interested in doing that in is men's basketball). And I suspect roughly 90%-95% of college baseball programs lose money, including some that regularly make the Super Regionals, if not the CWS.

the question is, would UL join a bidding war with Miss State to retain McDonnell, especially if the rumored price-tag (after Schlossnagle withdrew) is north of $2 Mil a year? I think Jurich would have, but I don't know if Tyra would, particularly if he thought he could get Lemonis for maybe half that amount (or less).

and if Glass would plan on offering CL's replacement a similar salary as CL's, then I'd hope he might at least consider some highly-regarded assistants from big-time programs and not just midwestern guys who are less of a threat to leave down the road. I'd like to think Glass aspires to something higher at this point with the baseball program than just "stability" or "continuity."
 
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Where are people seeing that Lemonis would be a candidate at Louisville? It makes sense, but I'm just curious about the reporting. I'm not too plugged in to college baseball news, so I'm not familiar with the sources and who is actually reputable in that space.
 
Hoosier71 said:
Where are people seeing that Lemonis would be a candidate at Louisville? It makes sense, but I'm just curious about the reporting. I'm not too plugged in to college baseball news, so I'm not familiar with the sources and who is actually reputable in that space.
Click to expand...

I believe it was mentioned on the broadcast vs. Texas Sunday night. Aside from that, I'm not specifically aware of anything.
 
Hoosier71 said:
Where are people seeing that Lemonis would be a candidate at Louisville? It makes sense, but I'm just curious about the reporting. I'm not too plugged in to college baseball news, so I'm not familiar with the sources and who is actually reputable in that space.
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some experts are making that assumption https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/college-baseballs-coaching-carousel-50-names-to-watch/, but I'm not convinced Lemonis would be automatic #1 for UL at this point in time
 
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Hoosier71 said:
Where are people seeing that Lemonis would be a candidate at Louisville? It makes sense, but I'm just curious about the reporting. I'm not too plugged in to college baseball news, so I'm not familiar with the sources and who is actually reputable in that space.
Click to expand...
D1 Baseball had it last week in their article about coaching carousel. It was under the subscription portion. Also was brought up in the broadcast of the Tournament.
 
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welshman# said:
already making $1 Mil a year; wonder if they'll sweeten the pot even more as a reward for his staying put?

Can't remember off the top of my head what Mack's UL base salary is--$4 Mil a year? Think Petrino's in that same neighborhood FWIW.
Click to expand...

Not sure if baseball is considered a revenue sport there. I know they just recently started charging for tickets. His success and now loyalty definitely seems to deserve a raise.
 
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