Team chemistry

[Jssanto]

If I interpreted TJD correctly, and maybe I did not, he said the starters would play the bench and that developed chemistry.
Did he mean that you could literally substitute 5 guys for 5 guys?
Interesting way to do it. 5 fresh guys come in. But usually individuals have different stamina levels. One guy may need a rest before a different guy.
Interesting to see what combos do play at the same time.

 

[B1G_Fan]

If I interpreted TJD correctly, and maybe I did not, he said the starters would play the bench and that developed chemistry.
Did he mean that you could literally substitute 5 guys for 5 guys?
Interesting way to do it. 5 fresh guys come in. But usually individuals have different stamina levels. One guy may need a rest before a different guy.
Interesting to see what combos do play at the same time.

We did that every game this year and the second unit got dominated.

 

[T.M.P.]

We did that every game this year and the second unit got dominated.

*eyeroll*

 

[B1G_Fan]

*eyeroll*

That’s a fact. You couldn’t see it for some reason.

 

[kurt cloverdales]

We did that every game this year and the second unit got dominated.

Trayce was saying the opposite, he didn't like the 2nd unit either

 

[B1G_Fan]

Trayce was saying the opposite, he didn't like the 2nd unit either

He also didn’t like a lot of the players on the second unit… haha.

 

[kkott]

If I interpreted TJD correctly, and maybe I did not, he said the starters would play the bench and that developed chemistry.
Did he mean that you could literally substitute 5 guys for 5 guys?
Interesting way to do it. 5 fresh guys come in. But usually individuals have different stamina levels. One guy may need a rest before a different guy.
Interesting to see what combos do play at the same time.

I haven't listened to the entire interview yet, but the portion I heard what I really believe he was trying to say is just that he thinks chemistry will be improved this year because they've had a year to play together under CMW's system, so they're not learning expectations this year, they understand that and can build off it. And, I think he's also saying maybe to change up the teams throughout so they get experience playing with all the rotation guys, and vice versa, vs just playing with the same 5. I don't think he's talking about a platoon system with 5 guys coming in as a B team.

 

[Eurocyldon]

TJD was somewhat guarded with his comments but the message was still clear - he returned to win big and get ready for the NBA. He's not interested in guys breaking rules and failing to put the team first. Hopefully that's not an issue next season. Team chemistry seems strong and it's nice to see the best player setting the tone early. Let's see if anything changes with how the players are used this time around if they fail to meet expectations on or off the court.

CMW tried his wave substitution pattern and learned he didn't have the horses on the bench to make it work. They lost nice leads on some good teams while trying it and it cost them multiple times. They finally accepted that realization late in the season. But next season could flip the script.

They may have the skilled depth needed for that kind of substitution to work. Let's see so if he tries again. It would be a huge lift if they can bring size in with Malik, Banks, and/or Duncomb without worrying about the game immediately slipping away. It would also go a long way toward keeping Trayce and Race fresh late in the game.

The rotation will work itself out but this team looks promising. It may take time early to figure out how best to use them but by the end of the season there should be a lot of options with much less drop off than we have seen over the last several seasons.

GO IU!

 

[kurt cloverdales]

TJD was somewhat guarded with his comments but the message was still clear - he returned to win big and get ready for the NBA. He's not interested in guys breaking rules and failing to put the team first. Hopefully that's not an issue next season. Team chemistry seems strong and it's nice to see the best player setting the tone early. Let's see if anything changes with how the players are used this time around if they fail to meet expectations on or off the court.

CMW tried his wave substitution pattern and learned he didn't have the horses on the bench to make it work. They lost nice leads on some good teams while trying it and it cost them multiple times. They finally accepted that realization late in the season. But next season could flip the script.

They may have the skilled depth needed for that kind of substitution to work. Let's see so if he tries again. It would be a huge lift if they can bring size in with Malik, Banks, and/or Duncomb without worrying about the game immediately slipping away. It would also go a long way toward keeping Trayce and Race fresh late in the game.

The rotation will work itself out but this team looks promising. It may take time early to figure out how best to use them but by the end of the season there should be a lot of options with much less drop off than we have seen over the last several seasons.

GO IU!

he also said Hes tired of practicing defense.

 

[outside shooter]

Woodie gave Trace a rest at around the 10 minute mark of the first half, regularly, usually lasting until the under-8 timeout, and sometimes a little longer. When other starters were in foul trouble or struggling, though, Trace being out was paired up with 2-3 others being out.

3 or 4 times during the season, 4 or even 5 bench players were out there together and they absolutely stunk up the joint almost every time. It was a disaster. Those times stuck into people's minds and created the false sense that Woodie regularly uses a 5-man platoon substitution system, and the even more ludicrous argument that such platoons are an "NBA thing". It's not and that's not the plan.

I hope that we are better prepared to keep more starters on the floor if Woodie insists on giving Trace a rest midway through the first half.

 

[kkott]

Woodie gave Trace a rest at around the 10 minute mark of the first half, regularly, usually lasting until the under-8 timeout, and sometimes a little longer. When other starters were in foul trouble or struggling, though, Trace being out was paired up with 2-3 others being out.

3 or 4 times during the season, 4 or even 5 bench players were out there together and they absolutely stunk up the joint almost every time. It was a disaster. Those times stuck into people's minds and created the false sense that Woodie regularly uses a 5-man platoon substitution system, and the even more ludicrous argument that such platoons are an "NBA thing". It's not and that's not the plan.

I hope that we are better prepared to keep more starters on the floor if Woodie insists on giving Trace a rest midway through the first half.

that's my recollection as well. Don't think I ever saw 5 guys at the scorer's table ready to platoon as many seem to think happened regularly.

 

[B1G_Fan]

that's my recollection as well. Don't think I ever saw 5 guys at the scorer's table ready to platoon as many seem to think happened regularly.

No one said they platooned. There were often 5 subs on the court at the same time, however. Happened almost every single game, and usually lead to momentum for the opposing team.

A lot of that had to do with Durr being on the floor. He is the only player to post a season long negative +/-.

 

[IUNorth]

Woodie gave Trace a rest at around the 10 minute mark of the first half, regularly, usually lasting until the under-8 timeout, and sometimes a little longer. When other starters were in foul trouble or struggling, though, Trace being out was paired up with 2-3 others being out.

3 or 4 times during the season, 4 or even 5 bench players were out there together and they absolutely stunk up the joint almost every time. It was a disaster. Those times stuck into people's minds and created the false sense that Woodie regularly uses a 5-man platoon substitution system, and the even more ludicrous argument that such platoons are an "NBA thing". It's not and that's not the plan.

I hope that we are better prepared to keep more starters on the floor if Woodie insists on giving Trace a rest midway through the first half.

Not sure if I ever complained about the 5 man substitution thing or not? But I know I did about his "NBA like" patterns. Even using your example... there is no need to have TJD sit out at the exact time every game like that. Especially when/if other guys like X, Race, etc... have to sit out for whatever reason at the same time. Break your damn rule and put TJD back in the game!!!

Load management, unless there are injuries involved, is completely unnecessary in college basketball.

They play 30-35 games, spread out over 4+ months.

Their games are only 40 minutes long.

They have 4 TV timeouts per half.

Outside of Maui Invitational type early season tourneys, they never play back to back days. Most of the time they have 2-3 off days in between games.

They have a longer shot clock, which means less overall possessions, which means less times up and down the court.

They generally don't travel as far.

They do have schoolwork, tests, etc... to attend to. But on the flip side, most of them aren't married with families, and don't have other "adult" duties to worry about. Though that dynamic does seem to be changing a bit with the NIL dynamics.

Long story short, he absolutely brought his NBA subbing patterns to college. It isn't necessary, and even if it was, he didn't have a roster that was deep enough to pull it off well. The result was far too many bad stretches in games, games with disrupted flow, etc...

I hope Xavier and TJD both play 36 minutes a game this season (in close, important games). And I hope whoever his best 5 end up being, play as many minutes as possible together.

 

[kkott]

No one said they platooned. There were often 5 subs on the court at the same time, however. Happened almost every single game, and usually lead to momentum for the opposing team.

A lot of that had to do with Durr being on the floor. He is the only player to post a season long negative +/-.

It's literally what the OP was referencing in the first post and you were the first person that chimed in and said we did it every game. As OS described, I think alot of folks whitewashed that it was a problemin every game the whole year, when in reality it really only was a problem or cost us in 5-6 games. It's not a headline that any team plays better with it's starters and best players on the floor.

I think substitution patterns and roles was something CMW struggled with this year, maybe more than anything. And when I'd give him high marks in so many areas, there were often times he put questionable combinations on the floor or stuck with one that was struggling too long, I thought. But, I think he'll learn and, after all, this is my opinion as a fan, vs his decades of experience as a player and coach. I really think he should have experimented more with different units and gotten more guys PT early in the year, so I'll be looking for that this coming year.

 

[kurt cloverdales]

Not sure if I ever complained about the 5 man substitution thing or not? But I know I did about his "NBA like" patterns. Even using your example... there is no need to have TJD sit out at the exact time every game like that. Especially when/if other guys like X, Race, etc... have to sit out for whatever reason at the same time. Break your damn rule and put TJD back in the game!!!

Load management, unless there are injuries involved, is completely unnecessary in college basketball.

They play 30-35 games, spread out over 4+ months.

Their games are only 40 minutes long.

They have 4 TV timeouts per half.

Outside of Maui Invitational type early season tourneys, they never play back to back days. Most of the time they have 2-3 off days in between games.

They have a longer shot clock, which means less overall possessions, which means less times up and down the court.

They generally don't travel as far.

They do have schoolwork, tests, etc... to attend to. But on the flip side, most of them aren't married with families, and don't have other "adult" duties to worry about. Though that dynamic does seem to be changing a bit with the NIL dynamics.

Long story short, he absolutely brought his NBA subbing patterns to college. It isn't necessary, and even if it was, he didn't have a roster that was deep enough to pull it off well. The result was far too many bad stretches in games, games with disrupted flow, etc...

I hope Xavier and TJD both play 36 minutes a game this season (in close, important games). And I hope whoever his best 5 end up being, play as many minutes as possible together.

Randy Whitman agrees with you, told me he discussed it with Woodson, I think what TJD was trying to say he would have liked to been on the court at the same time as Bates and Germino etc more last year.

 

[B1G_Fan]

It's literally what the OP was referencing in the first post and you were the first person that chimed in and said we did it every game. As OS described, I think alot of folks whitewashed that it was a problemin every game the whole year, when in reality it really only was a problem or cost us in 5-6 games. It's not a headline that any team plays better with it's starters and best players on the floor.

I think substitution patterns and roles was something CMW struggled with this year, maybe more than anything. And when I'd give him high marks in so many areas, there were often times he put questionable combinations on the floor or stuck with one that was struggling too long, I thought. But, I think he'll learn and, after all, this is my opinion as a fan, vs his decades of experience as a player and coach. I really think he should have experimented more with different units and gotten more guys PT early in the year, so I'll be looking for that this coming year.

It should never have cost in even 1 game let alone 5-6 games. You should always have a minimum of 3 starters on the court at a time. There is NEVER a need to have 5 subs on the court together. Durr should have never stepped foot on the court. They could have played a rotation of Race, TJD, and JG at the 4/5.

 

[kkott]

It should never have cost in even 1 game let alone 5-6 games. You should always have a minimum of 3 starters on the court at a time. There is NEVER a need to have 5 subs on the court together. Durr should have never stepped foot on the court. They could have played a rotation of Race, TJD, and JG at the 4/5.

Except that without Durr, we don't win the first PU game. It's easy to make pronouncements now, after the season. It's harder in season. As I said, I think a problem might have been not getting more minutes for some of the bench guys and sorting out roles early in the year. Why didn't he? Probably felt the starters needed the minutes to learn what he wanted offensively and defensively. Just as it sometimes might take a player awhile to figure things out, it might also take a Coach some time. I have a feeling the players won't be the only ones who learned from their experience and are better this year. I think we'll see more guys getting minutes and experimenting with different lineups early and a more stable rotation once the B10 season rolls around.

 

[B1G_Fan]

Except that without Durr, we don't win the first PU game. It's easy to make pronouncements now, after the season. It's harder in season. As I said, I think a problem might have been not getting more minutes for some of the bench guys and sorting out roles early in the year. Why didn't he? Probably felt the starters needed the minutes to learn what he wanted offensively and defensively. Just as it sometimes might take a player awhile to figure things out, it might also take a Coach some time. I have a feeling the players won't be the only ones who learned from their experience and are better this year. I think we'll see more guys getting minutes and experimenting with different lineups early and a more stable rotation once the B10 season rolls around.

How do you know we don't win that game? Also, I would trade the Purdue game for 5 or 6 other wins.

I'm not just saying this after the fact. You can go back and look at my posts. I didn't think Durr was a P5 player from the moment he committed, and I said he shouldn't ever see the court dating back to the first few games of the year. It was obvious he was terrible.

We have the players to be successful next year. Completely up to Woodson's coaching (barring injuries) whether or not that comes to fruition.

 

[kkott]

How do you know we don't win that game? Also, I would trade the Purdue game for 5 or 6 other wins.

I'm not just saying this after the fact. You can go back and look at my posts. I didn't think Durr was a P5 player from the moment he committed, and I said he shouldn't ever see the court dating back to the first few games of the year. It was obvious he was terrible.

We have the players to be successful next year. Completely up to Woodson's coaching (barring injuries) whether or not that comes to fruition.

Because I watched? Their bigs were giving us all kinds of trouble, and got TJD in foul trouble and honestly, I was thinking we were really in trouble with Durr coming in, but he played really well and handled Williams. How do you know we'd get 5-6 more wins if CMW followed your desire for subs? You don't. I think we all agree that with the returning and incoming players and a year of experience under our players and coaches belts, we are positioned to have a good year. Be interesting to see how good!

 

[T.M.P.]

that's my recollection as well. Don't think I ever saw 5 guys at the scorer's table ready to platoon as many seem to think happened regularly.

That hockey sub narrative is hyperbole at best, pure bullshit at worst.

 

[baileyiu]

Randy Whitman agrees with you, told me he discussed it with Woodson, I think what TJD was trying to say he would have liked to been on the court at the same time as Bates and Germino etc more last year.

Did h he tell you how to spell his name correctly?

 

[kurt cloverdales]

Did h he tell you how to spell his name correctly?

no, didn't discuss it

 

[kkott]

Did h he tell you how to spell his name correctly?

In fairness, have you tried his Sampler? Delicious!

 

[kurt cloverdales]

In fairness, have you tried his Sampler? Delicious!

I could have asked for an autograph but after about 18 I've never felt comfortable asking another man or woman to sign something for me

 

[Bobbyhh]

If I interpreted TJD correctly, and maybe I did not, he said the starters would play the bench and that developed chemistry.
Did he mean that you could literally substitute 5 guys for 5 guys?
Interesting way to do it. 5 fresh guys come in. But usually individuals have different stamina levels. One guy may need a rest before a different guy.
Interesting to see what combos do play at the same time.

I took it different than you. I think he said in practice he always played with the same 5 starters so did not get a chance to play with the other guys on the team so because of that, only built chemistry with the other 4 guys. This year he wants to do a mix of lineups in practice so they can get used to each other and have better chemistry.

 

[B1G_Fan]

Because I watched? Their bigs were giving us all kinds of trouble, and got TJD in foul trouble and honestly, I was thinking we were really in trouble with Durr coming in, but he played really well and handled Williams. How do you know we'd get 5-6 more wins if CMW followed your desire for subs? You don't. I think we all agree that with the returning and incoming players and a year of experience under our players and coaches belts, we are positioned to have a good year. Be interesting to see how good!

You have no way of knowing we don't win that game if Durr doesn't play. YOU are the one who said playing the subs together cost us in 5-6 games. I'm just going off what YOU said.

 

[T.M.P.]

In fairness, have you tried his Sampler? Delicious!

His poems are pretty good too.

 

[Jssanto]

I haven't listened to the entire interview yet, but the portion I heard what I really believe he was trying to say is just that he thinks chemistry will be improved this year because they've had a year to play together under CMW's system, so they're not learning expectations this year, they understand that and can build off it. And, I think he's also saying maybe to change up the teams throughout so they get experience playing with all the rotation guys, and vice versa, vs just playing with the same 5. I don't think he's talking about a platoon system with 5 guys coming in as a B team.

Thanks. I was not sure what he was saying.

 

[Jssanto]

I took it different than you. I think he said in practice he always played with the same 5 starters so did not get a chance to play with the other guys on the team so because of that, only built chemistry with the other 4 guys. This year he wants to do a mix of lineups in practice so they can get used to each other and have better chemistry.

Your interp makes more sense.

 

[rocketo]

Woodie gave Trace a rest at around the 10 minute mark of the first half, regularly, usually lasting until the under-8 timeout, and sometimes a little longer. When other starters were in foul trouble or struggling, though, Trace being out was paired up with 2-3 others being out.

3 or 4 times during the season, 4 or even 5 bench players were out there together and they absolutely stunk up the joint almost every time. It was a disaster. Those times stuck into people's minds and created the false sense that Woodie regularly uses a 5-man platoon substitution system, and the even more ludicrous argument that such platoons are an "NBA thing". It's not and that's not the plan.

I hope that we are better prepared to keep more starters on the floor if Woodie insists on giving Trace a rest midway through the first half.

Reasonable explanation

 

[Cavanagh]

I could have asked for an autograph but after about 18 I've never felt comfortable asking another man or woman to sign something for me

18 beers? Right Kurt?

 

[kkott]

You have no way of knowing we don't win that game if Durr doesn't play. YOU are the one who said playing the subs together cost us in 5-6 games. I'm just going off what YOU said.

I was only repeating what you, or others have said. Personally, I think his oversubtsituting, or really more sticking with oddball combinations that obiously hadn't played together and didn't know their roles or had no scorers on the floor, cost us leads, but didn't change the outcome of too many games. That's why what TJD said about scrimmaging with different combinations and lineups made so much sense.

Last year's team was more resilient than years' past when losing a lead usually made us tuck our tail and run. Last year, we often battled back. That's what I like what I've heard about JHS and MR, they sound more like the guys that Rutgers, WI and Purdue have had that will dig down and not accept giving up leads and losing. If this group can develop that attitude, then I really think they can contend at the top of the Big and nationally.

 

[8Stars5Banners]

18 beers? Right Kurt?

His Saturday night posts remind me of the early 90’s…..

 

[kurt cloverdales]

18 beers? Right Kurt?

good one, that actually made me laugh

 

[Jssanto]

Finding out who plays better with whom and who should play against whom is part of coaching.
Sometimes 3-4 guard types on the floor and sometimes 3 bigs, depending on opponent and whom the opponent has on the floor at the time.
Chess match.

 

[.Gerdis]

I suppose a distinction should be made between on court chemistry and off court chemistry.

the two do not have to be synced.

A group of players could be the best of friends and not gel on the court, and another group could function as a well oiled machine on the court but not get along.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

I suppose a distinction should be made between on court chemistry and off court chemistry.

the two do not have to be synced.

A group of players could be the best of friends and not gel on the court, and another group could function as a well oiled machine on the court but not get along.

And for all coaches the new layer of NIL cash for some will be a challenge to manage. Woody is experienced with dealing with players with money...but they all had money.