Talented Hoosiers?
- Thread starter Harry Hondo
- Start date
But freepie would have us believe that we are the Globetrotters, and the rest of the conference are the Washington Generals.
I forgot the link to this story. Two scouts talk about Romeo: https://www.wdrb.com/sports/bozich-...cle_f09d3fb6-360f-11e9-a447-7fb2dc83768e.html
This is the third most talented team in the conference per Freepie.
My guess is he sees Romeo and gets all starry-eyed thinking he's so good on his own he will just carry us to wins like at Vanderbilt this year.
Real concern is does Archie understand basic concepts on offense.. Like movement without the ball?
yes, in all of his 250 games coached up until exactly 11 ago, he was somehow gaming the system...or maybe it was all a fluke...and just now he's been exposed as an idiot. thanks for the thorough investigating.
hope stevie gets a team you can root for soon.
The race car keeps crashing and you're saying in order to start winning races you need a faster car.
IDK if IU is the 3rd most talented team in the B1G, but they are in the top 5.
IDK if IU is the 3rd most talented team in the B1G, but they are in the top 5.
I believe MSU is #1 in talent
Maryland #2
Michigan #3
Nebraska #4
Indiana is probably around #4 or #5 along with Minnesota
Then probably Iowa, OSU...
Pretty clear who coach of the year should be.
Maryland #2
Michigan #3
Nebraska #4
Indiana is probably around #4 or #5 along with Minnesota
Then probably Iowa, OSU...
Pretty clear who coach of the year should be.
He did last year and he ran half court motion while at Dayton.
I have no idea why he's using the old Calipari dribble drive this year. Well I take that back... it's probably because of a certain one and done.
He's tried to put in some simple flex offense principles lately.
That's probably what you have to do when your featured offensive player is 19 years old and only here for 5 and a half months.
Wrong he doesn’t run a real offense at least in a half court sense, never has never will
Wrong, VB. Archie Miller's Dayton offense link: https://www.mensbasketballhoopscoop.com/archie-miller-dayton-flyers-offense/
http://www.deposoft.com.ar/repo/driles y jugadas/archie-miller-dayton-flyers-offense-by-wes-kosel.pdf
https://www.insidethehall.com/2017/...e-defense-under-archie-miller/comment-page-1/
He was noted for his instilling movement off of the ball in the half court. Also, his plays called during timeouts were more than decent.
Ball handlers, shooters, fighters, smart basketball IQ...and the upgrade to the B1G...all are issues...noted is the low talent level which is the OP's post.
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Timeout! Is it ok to use a timeout and ask a self proclaimed extremely successful person what they consider a “real” offense? Did you see what I did there with the whole timeout thing? Hilarious
Yes, I have heard you say this before, and you have also mentioned that he was known for getting more out of the collective team than the sum of its parts. We are seeing the opposite this year. Romeo could be a great offensive player, but there is no movement off of the ball with him. It appears to be a group of individual players and not a functioning team.
Does this group of players have limitations,sure. But we also have 2 preseason all BT 1st team selections. Anyway you slice it, this team has massively underachieved.
Perhaps Archie gets this turned around and he begins to show as a coach at IU why he was hired.
ahhh -- well deserved criticism with a level-headed wait-and-see approach. Thanks, Gerdis!
We are seeing the opposite this year. Perplexing, it is.
I really do not have the answer. Clearly, Coach Miller doesn't have an effective and apparent answer...yet.
I speculate that there are clues throughout this thread and what we have seen on the floor. Why isn't this team great? Well, with a freshman point guard and a plethora of underclassmen, and injuries...yada yada...And by all means we should really consider preseason projections and hype. Is Morgan as effective if he has to play out of position, still and there are no shooters to take the heat off? Is Romeo raising the level of play of the whole team and tough for each entire game?
Why did they do better earlier? Some is the opposition talent of the players and the coaches in the B1G.. Some is that the opposition knows our weaknesses as the season progressed. All of this and the fact that Indiana does not try for huge portions of each game.
Why do they just stand around on offense? That is the killer isn't it. Is it because they lose the positive momentum when they get down or hit?
Why does Archie allow them to stand around on offense? Or why do they not hit free throws or 3's? To me it's obvious. Who is Archie going to run in off of the bench just to give pine time to they player that throws the ball away early in each game? Why does Morgan not hit his three's or 80% of his free throws?
I think that TommyCracker's post above may come the closest to explaining some of the offensive strategy. The air did go out of their tires in January. Team chemistry...maybe.
Is all of this on Archie Miller? Yes, it is his to shoulder and to solve...even if he didn't cook up this mess to begin with.
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okay, vickiebear -- breakdown what you are seeing. please use detail.
the board has really been waiting for you to crack that coconut of basketball knowledge you've been holding onto so tightly and hiding so well...lol
To suggest that this team lacks a lot of talent and Archie is a great Coach that inherited a crappy hand is just ridiculous. This team stands around on offense and is undisciplined. This team was talented enough to beat Marquette, Michigan State and Louisville. This team's recruits were all higher rated than Purdue's. I am not saying that these are the Fab 5 but there is talent on this team. When I watch these losses, I do not see a team that is outmatched. I see a team that is out coached. Romeo is allowed to shoot whenever he wants even though he is a poor jump shooter. He is deadly mid range but they do not run plays or any kind of offense to get him more opportunities mid range. This is a talented Indiana team and we have seen that talent sporadically throughout the season. To make excuses means you are fueling the problem and people like you will allow this kind of garbage to continue for years to come.
Yep. Every time they run a little flex action or get some down screens in the start of a motion offense, they get a good look. Frustrating as hell to watch them miss off those actions and then go away from them. We run the Stand Around and Watch offense way too often.
Most B1G teams don't have ANY NBA talent on the roster, and some that do are fringe NBA talent. The talent quotient can be used to argue why they aren't in first, but not for why they aren't in the top third of the league.
The only suggestion I see in this thread is from NBA scouts. I'll take their opinion over freepies and yours, if you please.
I notice you say they have the talent to beat Marquette, MSU, and UL. Is it totally out of bounds to use those games as examples of CAM's coaching acumen? Or did he stay in the locker room for those games?
So, is Romeo allowed to shoot whenever he wants, or does he not shoot enough? You guys can't have it both ways.
This has been a disappointing season, and CAM needs to figure out how to coach players like RL, or not recruit them, and stick to blue-collar types who will run through walls for him. I would wager that he has never had to deal with all the excess BS that comes with having not only a OAD player on his team, but one that had achieved "One Name Basis" fame level in the state while an underclassman in high school. Those are rare players and that coaching skill set has to be refined with practice.
To suggest that CAM is the worst coach ever (Freepie) not even two years after he was proclaimed a home run hire (Freepie) shows a total reliance on emotional, as opposed to logical, reaction to a less than ideal situation. Make no mistake...Freepie's course of action will make IU a toxic situation that most coaches wouldn't touch with a 33 1/2 pole, regardless of the money thrown at them.
In response to your argument about it being Archie Millers Coaching that won those three games and not talent, I argue that I watched those games and we matched up well talent wise in every position with those other players. I am arguing it is the Coaches fault. I take that position because they played well in fewer games than they played better and after a half season of Coaching they got worse. The games they defeated good teams are fewer than the games they lost to good teams. However, the fact that they did beat 3 top teams does suggest there is some level of talent on this squad. It is the responsibility of the Coach to develop that and from what I see he has failed to do that. They play undisciplined and his offense doesn’t take advantage of their strengths. It does the opposite and let’s the inmates run the asylum.
I don’t know what you are alluding to in the rest of your post. I never suggested he is the worst coach ever. Nor did I criticize the hire. I approved of the hire and wanted him to do well. But, I know enough about basketball to see if a coach has the talent or does not. If they do not, we need to let them go and try the next or get someone that has won it at this level. I do think we paid Archie way too much for someone that’s a maybe in the big leagues.
You are correct. Archie has been awful this year. This season may end up worse than Crean's 3rd year, depending on how we finish.
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If you think Archie say's : Hey ..Just stand around.
That's just laughable.
It's just this simple..None of them have 20 ft range.
Other teams.Not all .But some. Run no more motion than the Hooisers..Yet they have guy's who can rise up and make three's..Once you do that..Morgan's one on one on the block..Phinisee has room to drive the middle for the floater..And Romeo would have more room for slashes .
Two guy's that could give you three 3's a game. And we'd be in good shape..
But that's just not the case on this team.
That's just laughable.
It's just this simple..None of them have 20 ft range.
Other teams.Not all .But some. Run no more motion than the Hooisers..Yet they have guy's who can rise up and make three's..Once you do that..Morgan's one on one on the block..Phinisee has room to drive the middle for the floater..And Romeo would have more room for slashes .
Two guy's that could give you three 3's a game. And we'd be in good shape..
But that's just not the case on this team.
Well, the parts that have freepie in parenthesis are directed to him...and any others who did a complete 180 on CAM in less than 1.5 years.
I never said CAM's coaching won those games. I did ask if it was out of bounds to think that maybe, it was possible it had something to do with the victories. I'll mark you down as a "no", and as a believer in the theory that talent wins games, coaches lose games.
I promise you that as much as you think you know about coaching basketball, CAM absolutely knows more...or there would be message boards arguing over how much you suck at it.
Smith hasn't played at any point as well as he did the last half of last year. I really expected him to be better than he has played. Green hasn't learned anything since he has been here. We expected too much from him. Moore hasn't improved enough to move from the end of the bench. Fitzner left his shooting and the ability to catch the ball in California. We expected this group to help us this year. Because of injuries, we were forced to rely on these players that aren't performing well. I would have liked to see the difference a healthy Davis, Hunter, and Thompson would have made.
The talent will improve at the speed it takes to replace the underachieving players. Moore and Smith have 2 more years. Green has one more. I am not addressing Forrester and Anderson that are only freshmen. If they don't start producing, they are a scholarship that could have been better used on a more productive player and a 4 year drain on the roster as Moore is looking to be.
I can promise you one thing, as well. Archie isn't paid millions of dollars to know more about coaching basketball, than random internet posters. He is paid that much to know more than other Big Ten/Elite coaches and currently they are kicking his a@s at it.
No one said that he was, but you beat the crap out of that straw man anyway.
Other than that, I would agree that his results are disappointing this year. I'm sure all Hoosier fans join me in expecting him to right the ship.
i will say your tough talk is my fav tough talk, Snarls! Cut this and past it in your google calendar for this day next year. Put it back on the board if we are a shit team and you'll get zero flack. and it's that simple! lol
The recruiting services must have whiffed badly on these guys. I suppose it happens but this team is playing worse than Crean’s first three.
Even Fischer admitted that those teams were more enjoyable to watch knowing they were severely outmanned but knowing they would play hard.
Justine Smith - he was #119 nationally and offers from the likes of Wisconsin, Purdue, Villanova and Xavier. He plays like he is ranked #1119.
DeRon Davis -#35 nationally.
Romeo - 5 star burger boy.
Forrester, Anderson, Phinesee were all 4 star kids.
This notion that we have no talent on paper has worn out his welcome.
For some reason, they were good in high school and now under Archie’s magic touch, they have become completely inept?
I agree with the NBA scouts that there is no NBA talent right now. But, has anybody questioned why you get a bunch of decently ranked kids who did just fine prior to IU and now they look like they’ve never picked up a basketball in their lifetimes?
The common denominator keeps coming back to the guy in charge.
This is so damn laughable . . .
Forrester - ranked #131st (2018)
Anderson- ranked #118th (2018)
Phinesee- ranked #103rd (2018)
The cut-off for 4 Stars that year? 139 - yet in Juwan's senior year (2015), the cut-off was 108 (Juwan was a 3 star at 109).
Talk about consistency . . .
For some reason I thought of the Titanic. I was going to say I would be your Jack and die for us, but then it got weird, when I realized we would also have to fall in love. How about I just save you a life jacket and we fist bump, instead?
One thing I am good at, is b#tching at coaches. It's a job, I can handle!
I, like it seemed everyone here, expected this to be a much better shooting team than last year. A combo of Romeo, Phin and Fitzner should easily replace the shooting of a senior Johnson and that other erratic guard that I am loathe to even name. I also expected big improvement from AD.
Ironic that we are on to Iowa City where Rob set an IU record with 9 threes just last year.
This is so damn laughable . . .
Forrester - ranked #131st (2018)
Anderson- ranked #118th (2018)
Phinesee- ranked #103rd (2018)
The cut-off for 4 Stars that year? 139 - yet in Juwan's senior year (2015), the cut-off was 108 (Juwan was a 3 star at 109).
Talk about consistency . . .
I'll need to look it back up to be sure, but I think Forrester, Anderson and Phinisee were all ranked as 4-star players by all 3 (Rivals, ESPN and 247). Morgan was a 4-star player by 2 of them. Juwan was ranked #77 by 247, but most people just look at their composite ranking. Here's the link to Morgan, notice the smaller print in the composite ranking box.
https://247sports.com/Player/Juwan-Morgan-34798/high-school-56836/
Tennessee, by way of comparison, has only one player on the roster (Pons) who was rated 4- star by at least two of the three. If you look at the Vols, you see guys that weren't very good as frosh, but stuck with the program together.
Indiana has plenty of paper talent. One problem though, is that the most talented are the least experienced, with the exception of Morgan. Smith was ranked #82 in RSCI, but is only a soph. IU has a bunch of guys that project to be good upperclassmen, but are not yet upperclassmen.
I've ignored more people in the last 2 weeks than at any time since the feature was available. Most have been Purdoo trolls, but there is a growing list of the "fire Archie" crowd.
This isn't the NBA where you can sign free agents, trade players, cut players, or spend your way out of trouble. Archie had to work with what he started with. He added a top ten class and he will need more good classes in the next 2-3 years.
Archie was coaching Crean's roster last year. This year we were able to replace Priller, McSwain, Hartman, Newkirk and Rojo. It actually might have been easier to start over.
Archie was a good coach before he came to IU. Let him coach and work his way out of this season and the roster he has. If he can't recruit and coach players that can win, we will know it after a few classes. If you wanted another coach, decide now if you want to follow that coach or IU.
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