Strength and conditioning

[Superstar84b]

Just to update the board, I talked to a current player today (so this is speculation), but heard that the current strength and conditioning coach got fired, and that players don’t have a workout plan for the month off during break. Got me thinking, if PU had a bowl game and took this past month to get bigger, stronger and faster for preparation, AND IU missed a bowl game and players aren’t seriously working out for the next month, that by default puts IU behind the curve headed into 18’ and is somewhat concerning.

The firing does show that Allen is willing to make a quick decision if he honestly see’s a problem, and I think many of you noticed before even I noticed that something was wrong with stregnth and conditioning when we had so many injuries. This kind of connects the dots for us. I don’t really blame Wilson, or Allen, but I’m starting to think that the theory some fans have is correct... going cheap may be hurting IU. I remember IU letting Mark Hill walk to Kentucky and not matching that offer, and it appears as if that was a terrible mistake. Deontay Mack (a former player at IU and strength coach), Lionel Anderson, and Will People’s were also allowed to walk and IU wasn’t going to match those offers. I had kind of brushed off the reality that going cheap may cost IU, but I guess this is a clear cut example, and Kuddos to posters who have highlighted that.

I wouldn’t put this on Wilson, or Allen per se, but obviously if this firing is true, Wilson made an error with his replacement for Hill, and CTA was kind of set up for failure in terms of Stregnth and conditioning. That can explain part of the reason as to why our line was WEAK, and why so many key players got injured. I remembered a comment that Ball was essentially doing his own workout routine and two workouts a day, and that sounded a bit reckless to me at the time way before he got injured... sounded like he didn’t really have guidance... and then he was one of the key injuries this year. Now it makes sense, and it’s somewhat concerning going into 18’ that these guys have had no organization for the past month, and no real workout setup. I know that when we missed bowls under coach Hill we still had an organized workout plan to complete when we went home for break, and clear goals when we got back to campus. Had a conditioning “test” to insure that we had completed the workouts. These guys don’t have that now, and it is somewhat a slap in the face to anyone who supports the program and just saw that Purdue took this time to get better, faster and stronger.

 

[Superstar84b]

I have to note that I haven’t seen confirmation about this on the Internet, and this info just came from a current player, so it is (speculation) in terms of the firing as I mentioned

 

[ulrey]

Iu going cheap...shocker

 

[td75]

GD, SOB, calling Fred Glass!!!! Way to go Fred!! You let our very best strength coach ever, Mark Hill, walk to Kentucky! Bastard...

Choke on a basketball

 

[76-1]

Well the solution is obvious... Pay whatever it takes to entice Mark Hill to come back.

What's he making at KY? Couldn't be that hard to get someone to leave Lexington. That's one of the grimer towns I've ever been thru...

 

[RBB89]

GD, SOB, calling Fred Glass!!!! Way to go Fred!! You let our very best strength coach ever, Mark Hill, walk to Kentucky! Bastard...

Choke on a basketball

I can honestly say I’ve never seen anyone get this upset about a collegiate strength and conditioning coach before.

By the way, how many of our previous strength and conditioning coaches can you name?

 

[76-1]

According to USA Today Mark Hill made $205,000, same as or guy this past year...
Link:http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/football/strength

I say pay him $305,000 (similar to WI $) and increase his staff budget in the amounts he thinks is needed and let's get Mark Hill back and this thing back on track...

Strength and Conditioning is the very foundation of big time Big Ten Football. We can't go penny wise and pound foolish on this hire.

The way the rules are set up the Strength and Conditioning Coach actually spends more time with the team then any other coach. Calling he and his staff Key Personel is a bit of an understatement...

Come on Fred. Get this rehire done...

 

[ulrey]

According to USA Today Mark Hill made $205,000, same as or guy this past year...

I say pay him $305,000 (similar to WI $) and increase his staff budget in the amounts he thinks is needed and let's get Mark Hill back and this thing back on track...

Strength and Conditioning is the very foundation of big time Big Ten Football. We can't go penny wise and pound foolish on this hire.

The way the rules are set up the Strength and Conditioning Coach actually spends more time with the team then any other coach. Calling he and his staff Key Personel is a bit of an understatement...

Come on Fred. Get this rehire done...

I'd rather have a nice flag pole

 

[td75]

You miss the point, RBB. We are sitting home for the Holidays and I'm forced to watch Kentucky play Northwestern today in the Music City Bowl, a bowl that actually wanted Indiana at one point.

Now we hear from a credible, former player, that Allen had to axe the New guy. Why? Because he SUCKED! And Glass let Hill walk to Lexington without even trying to retain him.

I really wish you would quit with trying to be an administration mouth piece.

 

[Hoosiers Rising]

I'd rather have a nice flag pole

Maybe make the world's biggest drum?

 

[76-1]

I can honestly say I’ve never seen anyone get this upset about a collegiate strength and conditioning coach before.

By the way, how many of our previous strength and conditioning coaches can you name?

Well, while his reaction may have been an extreme one, it's not an incorrect one. You simply don't let a Coach go to KY (one who's arguably been involved in the most success in terms of his area of expertise since the Mallory years)...

If what was posted is accurate about our players being sent home without a strength and conditioning plan and no S&T guy to give them any direction it's almost malpractice when it comes to keeping up with your peers or surpassing them in big time football. Hell, the high schoolers have semester break conditioning plans and goals that are expected to be met...!!!

Fred Glass needs to help Tom Allen get this situation fixed yesterday in terms of the urgency and importance of this hire!

 

[RBB89]

You miss the point, RBB. We are sitting home for the Holidays and I'm forced to watch Kentucky play Northwestern today in the Music City Bowl, a bowl that actually wanted Indiana at one point.

Now we hear from a credible, former player, that Allen had to axe the New guy. Why? Because he SUCKED! And Glass let Hill walk to Lexington without even trying to retain him.

I really wish you would quit with trying to be an administration mouth piece.

I’m not being a mouthpiece for anyone. You just literally threw a tantrum over a conditioning coach for a football team. And you accused the AD of being cheap, without even knowing how much they were actually paid.

Caton and Hill both made $205,000 last year. In addition, one of the other coaches mentioned in the OP, Lyonel Anderson, was the basketball strength coach for Crean. Of course they “let him walk.” Archie Miller was going to bring in his own guy.

Why would we “go cheap” and not match an offer for someone, and then pay his replacement literally the exact same salary?

 

[RBB89]

Well, while his reaction may have been an extreme one, it's not an incorrect one. You simply don't let a Coach go to KY (one who's arguably been involved in the most success in terms of his area of expertise since the Mallory years)...

If what was posted is accurate about our players being sent home without a strength and conditioning plan and no S&T guy to give them any direction it's almost malpractice when it comes to keeping up with your peers or surpassing them in big time football. Hell, the high schoolers have semester break conditioning plans and goals that are expected to be met...!!!

Fred Glass needs to help Tom Allen get this situation fixed yesterday in terms of the urgency and importance of this hire!

The two coaches are making the exact same salary. He did not go there because we were trying to be cheap. That literally doesn’t make any sense. Now I would agree if the players have absolutely no off-season workout plan, then yes, that’s bad.

 

[ORG]

If all of this is accurate . . . then its time to move on, get the problem fixed and then start working out.

 

[Superstar84b]

I’m not being a mouthpiece for anyone. You just literally threw a tantrum over a conditioning coach for a football team. And you accused the AD of being cheap, without even knowing how much they were actually paid.

Caton and Hill both made $205,000 last year. In addition, one of the other coaches mentioned in the OP, Lyonel Anderson, was the basketball strength coach for Crean. Of course they “let him walk.” Archie Miller was going to bring in his own guy.

Why would we “go cheap” and not match an offer for someone, and then pay his replacement literally the exact same salary?

Oh yeah. With coach Anderson, my point was that they let him walk to Houston while he was still the Stregnth and conditioning coach. They did hire him back as the head hoops Stregnth and conditioning coach. You’re 100% right, and my point wasn’t in regards to him not being retained for basketball. It was the fact that I think it would’ve been critical for them to offer him more, and some of the other assistants while he was stjlland assistant, before he left to go to Houston to begin with

 

[RBB89]

Just based off of his Twitter account, it does appear that Caton is no longer with the program. So there seems to be a mix of truth with some inaccuracies here.

 

[Superstar84b]

Just based off of his Twitter account, it does appear that Caton is no longer with the program. So there seems to be a mix of truth with some inaccuracies here.

Yeah. And I don’t knock CTA at all for letting Canton go. If players don’t have a workout, it just seems to be an unfortunate situation. It’s not so much anyone’s fault, but it’s certainly not a good thing, especially when guys need some kind of structure during this period. At Oregon last year I remember seeing reports that guys were sent to the hospital because they came back from break in terrible shape. It’s an unfortunate part of making a change during this period.

 

[76-1]

Here's a guy that "sounds" like a good one: http://gotigersgo.com/mobile/staff.aspx?staff=215

The guy at South Carolina sounds solid too but it would take real money to pry him loose from there... If you're going to go that route go big and bring whoever he wants from his staff with him.
Link:http://www.gamecocksonline.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/strength.html

 

[Hoosier_Hack]

In my opinion, these are the areas that the school/admin can contribute greatly to the cause and where they truly owe something to the base for how things were managed in the past. Let the staff pick their guy then make the money available to pay. This way, I feel they can hold the staff responsible for results more easily also. No excuses.

 

[76-1]

As always there's opportunities where there's a crisis...

Here's a major opportunity for TA to structure his Strength and Conditioning staff and program to match the realities of the structure of NCAA rules governing the amount of time the staff spends with the players.

If I'm him I find the best S&C head guy and then try to surround him with qualified S&C staff that have both coached and played at a high level..., thus giving you a two for one setup during the year around workouts... Just my opinion...

 

[Davehack]

Don't worry. Before he left the players were issued Simply Fit Boards.

 

[IndyIUFan66]

First this does NOT appear to be confirmed so people should use caution on this one until it is.

This is an important role for sure, but not one to lose ones mind over out of the gates. If true, I have no doubt IU can bring in a solid replacement as I also bet there are no shortage of qualified candidates out there given rise in specialized training. And sorry but not as many personal trainers out there making $200K with all that goes with a D1 FB program.

No idea if Caton did a good or bad job (or if he’s even on way out) but if he is, think it would make sense from purely a new coach picking his own team as he sees fit and when he was hired was mid-year. He’d make an assessment like that after this season and before spring.

Lastly, I SERIOUSLY doubt the IU FB Team has NO form of training plan or NO ONE to administer it even if he was let go. Not sure what kind of coaching can even be done now but really think Tom Allen, a big workout guy himself, is casually chilling if team can be given training coaching but had no one there and just letting players do nothing? Really believe that? Cmon use some common sense!

 

[crossfire74]

You miss the point, RBB. We are sitting home for the Holidays and I'm forced to watch Kentucky play Northwestern today in the Music City Bowl, a bowl that actually wanted Indiana at one point.

Now we hear from a credible, former player, that Allen had to axe the New guy. Why? Because he SUCKED! And Glass let Hill walk to Lexington without even trying to retain him.

I really wish you would quit with trying to be an administration mouth piece.

First off what the OP stated isn't true. Idk what "current player" he talked too, but I confirmed this morning that there are workout plans in place with what is typical for right now this second. 95% of the players are home for the holidays and they are given that time to rest and condition on the their own. Most former players that I talked too, state that the holidays are basically a good resting and recovery time. They will run a couple times a week and lift some, but for the most part they are resting and refreshing themselves to come back on January 8th and get back too it. We currently have players with families all over the country. Most are working out at their former high schools or local gyms. Others will take this time to work local strength trainers, but again, the idea that the OP implied that they are all just sitting around with no direction is completely false.

As for Caton, it's not shocking. We didn't recover well and that's something that Cliff Marshall is teaching and doing with the basketball program, so I'm not shocked that the staff wants to go in a different direction here. Caton is a great guy. If you don't know him you should, but he had a different philosophy that just didn't seem to fit what the coaches wanted here. So they are moving forward and there will be someone in place quickly.

Your knee jerk reactions are comical for sure, but you take everything everyone posts as 100% accurate, and sometimes it just isn't what you think. Congrats to the OP for causing a shit storm on this board as well as Scout, because everyone assumes that we just are laying around not doing anything when that is 100% not true.

 

[Hoosiers Rising]

First off what the OP stated isn't true. Idk what "current player" he talked too, but I confirmed this morning that there are workout plans in place with what is typical for right now this second. 95% of the players are home for the holidays and they are given that time to rest and condition on the their own. Most former players that I talked too, state that the holidays are basically a good resting and recovery time. They will run a couple times a week and lift some, but for the most part they are resting and refreshing themselves to come back on January 8th and get back too it. We currently have players with families all over the country. Most are working out at their former high schools or local gyms. Others will take this time to work local strength trainers, but again, the idea that the OP implied that they are all just sitting around with no direction is completely false.

As for Caton, it's not shocking. We didn't recover well and that's something that Cliff Marshall is teaching and doing with the basketball program, so I'm not shocked that the staff wants to go in a different direction here. Caton is a great guy. If you don't know him you should, but he had a different philosophy that just didn't seem to fit what the coaches wanted here. So they are moving forward and there will be someone in place quickly.

Your knee jerk reactions are comical for sure, but you take everything everyone posts as 100% accurate, and sometimes it just isn't what you think. Congrats to the OP for causing a shit storm on this board as well as Scout, because everyone assumes that we just are laying around not doing anything when that is 100% not true.

Common sense is in short supply. Did people really think that they were going to lay around till spring. LOL. I think most had concerns over S&C. Looks like it is being handled.

 

[IndyIUFan66]

First off what the OP stated isn't true. Idk what "current player" he talked too, but I confirmed this morning that there are workout plans in place with what is typical for right now this second. 95% of the players are home for the holidays and they are given that time to rest and condition on the their own. Most former players that I talked too, state that the holidays are basically a good resting and recovery time. They will run a couple times a week and lift some, but for the most part they are resting and refreshing themselves to come back on January 8th and get back too it. We currently have players with families all over the country. Most are working out at their former high schools or local gyms. Others will take this time to work local strength trainers, but again, the idea that the OP implied that they are all just sitting around with no direction is completely false.

As for Caton, it's not shocking. We didn't recover well and that's something that Cliff Marshall is teaching and doing with the basketball program, so I'm not shocked that the staff wants to go in a different direction here. Caton is a great guy. If you don't know him you should, but he had a different philosophy that just didn't seem to fit what the coaches wanted here. So they are moving forward and there will be someone in place quickly.

Your knee jerk reactions are comical for sure, but you take everything everyone posts as 100% accurate, and sometimes it just isn't what you think. Congrats to the OP for causing a shit storm on this board as well as Scout, because everyone assumes that we just are laying around not doing anything when that is 100% not true.

Amazing how people take the bait without any questions.

If true, I’m optimistic that a fresh voice with new methods could be great for the program.

But have to trust the process, and at least give basic benefit of the doubt that IUFB program is far from “just doing nothing” at any time! Cmon. Allen is not a sit around and do nothing coach nor will his program. Use his recruiting results (and hustle - they were everywhere!) as an insight into his program.

 

[RBB89]

First off what the OP stated isn't true. Idk what "current player" he talked too, but I confirmed this morning that there are workout plans in place with what is typical for right now this second. 95% of the players are home for the holidays and they are given that time to rest and condition on the their own. Most former players that I talked too, state that the holidays are basically a good resting and recovery time. They will run a couple times a week and lift some, but for the most part they are resting and refreshing themselves to come back on January 8th and get back too it. We currently have players with families all over the country. Most are working out at their former high schools or local gyms. Others will take this time to work local strength trainers, but again, the idea that the OP implied that they are all just sitting around with no direction is completely false.

As for Caton, it's not shocking. We didn't recover well and that's something that Cliff Marshall is teaching and doing with the basketball program, so I'm not shocked that the staff wants to go in a different direction here. Caton is a great guy. If you don't know him you should, but he had a different philosophy that just didn't seem to fit what the coaches wanted here. So they are moving forward and there will be someone in place quickly.

Your knee jerk reactions are comical for sure, but you take everything everyone posts as 100% accurate, and sometimes it just isn't what you think. Congrats to the OP for causing a shit storm on this board as well as Scout, because everyone assumes that we just are laying around not doing anything when that is 100% not true.

Yeah, I have no issues with the OP, but there’s pretty much no way that the players were just going to lay around until February. And these salaries are easy to find.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

1. I don't automatically equate strength with less injury-prone.Technique and instinct also matter.

2. Same with "recovery" or late-game fade. That's conditioning.

3. UK football has 4 "strength" and "performance" coaches, including Hill and Mack.

http://www.ukathletics.com/staff.aspx?department=19

4. Players who don't lift when school is out and claim it is because they weren't given a "plan" by a coach should be encouraged to transfer.

5. I'd like to know how many former players IU Athletics is paying to not play under our Bill of Rights. Are we at a competitive disadvantage in the Big Ten because we spend money on THAT instead of other stuff? I doubt it, but I don't know.

6. Coaches need to work with other coaches they believe in soul-deep. Any doubts either way requires change. Nothing personal. Just professional big boy football.

 

[Superstar84b]

First off what the OP stated isn't true. Idk what "current player" he talked too, but I confirmed this morning that there are workout plans in place with what is typical for right now this second. 95% of the players are home for the holidays and they are given that time to rest and condition on the their own. Most former players that I talked too, state that the holidays are basically a good resting and recovery time. They will run a couple times a week and lift some, but for the most part they are resting and refreshing themselves to come back on January 8th and get back too it. We currently have players with families all over the country. Most are working out at their former high schools or local gyms. Others will take this time to work local strength trainers, but again, the idea that the OP implied that they are all just sitting around with no direction is completely false.

As for Caton, it's not shocking. We didn't recover well and that's something that Cliff Marshall is teaching and doing with the basketball program, so I'm not shocked that the staff wants to go in a different direction here. Caton is a great guy. If you don't know him you should, but he had a different philosophy that just didn't seem to fit what the coaches wanted here. So they are moving forward and there will be someone in place quickly.

Your knee jerk reactions are comical for sure, but you take everything everyone posts as 100% accurate, and sometimes it just isn't what you think. Congrats to the OP for causing a shit storm on this board as well as Scout, because everyone assumes that we just are laying around not doing anything when that is 100% not true.

That not 100% accurate from what you heard from former players. There was a specific workout plan with specific goals for winter break. It wasn’t a “figure it out as you go” situation. Before you left you were given specific goals, and a specific workout plan, and had to come back in shape. There would typically be some form of a “test” just to see if you actually did the workouts. It wasn’t as non chalant as you may have thought. Some former players may have used it as a rest period, gotten their own trainers, and not actually done the workout, but me and the guys who I would stay in contact with over break actually did it. Some of the former players may have not actually done the workout and used it as a resting period, but I’m confident that more people than not did the workout. I left the workout thinking, “damn, this is basically as hard as what we’d do in the gym at IU.” For example, day 1- might be 6 half gassers + a full lift with weights based on your weight room numbers and maxout numbers. The workouts were 3-4 day a week, and were similar to what you’d do during winter conditioning so that you didn’t miss a beat when you came back. I probably still have the workout packet in old emails. It wasn’t some non chalant period, but I wouldn’t be shocked if some former players didn’t do the entire workout.

The current player noted that they dont have that. There isn’t the structure or a detailed plan like there was with Hill over break. For me personally, I got better over break. It wasn’t non-chalant, and if guys on the team honestly weren’t doing the workout, then that explains the results and why some of them couldn’t finish some of the workouts. Most guys did finish, and I’m confident that most people did these workouts.

 

[RBB89]

1. I don't automatically equate strength with less injury-prone.Technique and instinct also matter.

2. Same with "recovery" or late-game fade. That's conditioning.

3. UK football has 4 "strength" and "performance" coaches, including Hill and Mack.

http://www.ukathletics.com/staff.aspx?department=19

4. Players who don't lift when school is out and claim it is because they weren't given a "plan" by a coach should be encouraged to transfer.

5. I'd like to know how many former players IU Athletics is paying to not play under our Bill of Rights. Are we at a competitive disadvantage in the Big Ten because we spend money on THAT instead of other stuff? I doubt it, but I don't know.

6. Coaches need to work with other coaches they believe in soul-deep. Any doubts either way requires change. Nothing personal. Just professional big boy football.

Before someone talks about how cheap we are again, IU has 4 “strength & performance” coaches for football as well:

http://iuhoosiers.com/sports/2015/4/1/GEN_2014010134.aspx?path=strength

 

[Hoosier_Hack]

That not 100% accurate from what you heard from former players. There was a specific workout plan with specific goals for winter break. It wasn’t a “figure it out as you go” situation. Before you left you were given specific goals, and a specific workout plan, and had to come back in shape. There would typically be some form of a “test” just to see if you actually did the workouts. It wasn’t as non chalant as you may have thought. Some former players may have used it as a rest period, gotten their own trainers, and not actually done the workout, but me and the guys who I would stay in contact with over break actually did it. Some of the former players may have not actually done the workout and used it as a resting period, but I’m confident that more people than not did the workout. I left the workout thinking, “damn, this is basically as hard as what we’d do in the gym at IU.” For example, day 1- might be 6 half gassers + a full lift with weights based on your weight room numbers and maxout numbers. The workouts were 3-4 day a week, and were similar to what you’d do during winter conditioning so that you didn’t miss a beat when you came back. I probably still have the workout packet in old emails. It wasn’t some non chalant period, but I wouldn’t be shocked if some former players didn’t do the entire workout.

The current player noted that they dont have that. There isn’t the structure or a detailed plan like there was with Hill over break. For me personally, I got better over break. It wasn’t non-chalant, and if guys on the team honestly weren’t doing the workout, then that explains the results and why some of them couldn’t finish some of the workouts. Most guys did finish, and I’m confident that most people did these workouts.

What’s a gasser? Is it a 40 yard or 100 yard? Running lines? Marine vet turned fat guy would like to know....

 

[Superstar84b]

What’s a gasser? Is it a 40 yard or 100 yard? Running lines? Marine vet turned fat guy would like to know....

It’s from sideline to sideline. You may start with 4 of them and 45 second rest. The next day we did 100 yard sprints down, then 80 yard sprints, then 50 yard sprints. Day 3 would be something like 110 yard sprints. The weight room stuff from 1 day was hang clean 5X3, benchpress 4x10, deadlifts 4x8, split squats 4x8, widegrip pull ups 4x10, dips 4x12, and flutter kicks 3x10. You’d have 3 workouts similar to that a week, and immediately after needed to do the running.

I’m looking at those workouts verbatim. These were in pdf format and emailed to each player in a detailed format. I wouldn’t have posted that if it were a new workout, but this is from 2012 just as an example. The current player said they were not given those instructions. So yes, that’s silly to me, and not typical of what you see from a division 1 program to not be given that level of instruction. The only guys who were told to recover and all of that were hurt guys, who may get instructions from the medical guys. It was made clear that if you were healthy, you BETTER do everything on the list. That was made clear by Hill, Wilson, and your position coach. Now some guys may have BS’d the workout and not taken it seriously, or may have worked out with their high school people, but not me or the guys I talked to during break, because that went against the specific instructions. If some guys didn’t follow the instructions, that’s a little frustrating, and those are probably the guys who couldn’t follow instructions in critical parts of the game.

Current player flat out said they don’t have a workout plan for this period, and they weren’t given those instructions. And that’s silly at a D1 program, but semi understandable due to the coaching change. I don’t blame Allen because he had to make a change. But these guys are behind, particularly when other people were in bowls. I felt like having some structure during break made me feel as if I wasn’t falling that far behind guys who were playing in bowls. These guys flat out don’t have that structure during this translation period, and Iran not good

 

[td75]

I've followed iu football very closely for three decades. Coach Hill had the team in its best shape in 30 years, bank it. Take that money to Vegas, it's a lock.

You could tell on TV how much more defined the iu players were under Hill's watch. Back in the Lynch years, there was a starting safety at iu who had a pooch or gut. This kid started many games at iu and simply wasn't in good shape according to his belly. I won't name him here but if you've followed closely, some of you may remember who I'm referring to.

Just get a high quality guy in here. Strength and conditioning is 100% controllable.

 

[crossfire74]

It’s from sideline to sideline. You may start with 4 of them and 45 second rest. The next day we did 100 yard sprints down, then 80 yard sprints, then 50 yard sprints. Day 3 would be something like 110 yard sprints. The weight room stuff from 1 day was hang clean 5X3, benchpress 4x10, deadlifts 4x8, split squats 4x8, widegrip pull ups 4x10, dips 4x12, and flutter kicks 3x10. You’d have 3 workouts similar to that a week, and immediately after needed to do the running.

I’m looking at those workouts verbatim. These were in pdf format and emailed to each player in a detailed format. I wouldn’t have posted that if it were a new workout, but this is from 2012 just as an example. The current player said they were not given those instructions. So yes, that’s silly to me, and not typical of what you see from a division 1 program to not be given that level of instruction. The only guys who were told to recover and all of that were hurt guys, who may get instructions from the medical guys. It was made clear that if you were healthy, you BETTER do everything on the list. That was made clear by Hill, Wilson, and your position coach. Now some guys may have BS’d the workout and not taken it seriously, or may have worked out with their high school people, but not me or the guys I talked to during break, because that went against the specific instructions. If some guys didn’t follow the instructions, that’s a little frustrating, and those are probably the guys who couldn’t follow instructions in critical parts of the game.

Current player flat out said they don’t have a workout plan for this period, and they weren’t given those instructions. And that’s silly at a D1 program, but semi understandable due to the coaching change. I don’t blame Allen because he had to make a change. But these guys are behind, particularly when other people were in bowls. I felt like having some structure during break made me feel as if I wasn’t falling that far behind guys who were playing in bowls. These guys flat out don’t have that structure during this translation period, and Iran not good

These guys are not behind. There's a new S&C guy that is about to start after the 1st of the year. What is your axe to grind here? You say you don't blame Allen, but you clearly are pissed by what some player is supposedly telling you. You wouldn't go on and on and on about this is you weren't miffed by it all.

When Mark Hill was here, he did have a pretty structured plan during the holidays as well as throughout the entire year, but most places don't because people are learning that if you drill guys in the ground all the time, with little recovery that you do cause more issues later. So letting guys take a couple weeks off and just do light workouts isn't a big deal. You seem to imply that IU will be the laughing stock of football because they did light workouts for two weeks in a somewhat not structured way. Hill was pretty OCD about stuff, but it wasn't like he was Jesus. We had years when he was here with multiple injuries just like we do now.

And as for your current player informant, I'm pretty sure I know who you are talking to and I would not put all your eggs in his basket in the information coming to you being 100% honest info.

I think the only thing that is silly about this whole thread is the fact that you actually think IU is somehow suffering because one person is feeding you a line of shit to make you look stupid.

 

[Indianaftw]

These guys are not behind. There's a new S&C guy that is about to start after the 1st of the year. What is your axe to grind here? You say you don't blame Allen, but you clearly are pissed by what some player is supposedly telling you. You wouldn't go on and on and on about this is you weren't miffed by it all.

For years I was on the Colorado board and we all paid strict attention to the S&C guys because of injuries, the way the players looked, routines, etc. etc. if true that there is not an S&C guy running programs right now that is a HUGE problem. From now until spring football starts the only contact these guys have is with the S&C guy. After spring and up until Fall the only coach that these players will have major correspondence with is the S&C guy. That person is a major part of these kids lives day in day out.

Hopefully what you were told is not all true and for CTA to not have anyone in place handling this is a BIG TIME f*ck up IF TRUE!

 

[RBB89]

Well, we’ve officially reached peak off-season silliness, and it’s not even January.

 

[Superstar84b]

These guys are not behind. There's a new S&C guy that is about to start after the 1st of the year. What is your axe to grind here? You say you don't blame Allen, but you clearly are pissed by what some player is supposedly telling you. You wouldn't go on and on and on about this is you weren't miffed by it all.

When Mark Hill was here, he did have a pretty structured plan during the holidays as well as throughout the entire year, but most places don't because people are learning that if you drill guys in the ground all the time, with little recovery that you do cause more issues later. So letting guys take a couple weeks off and just do light workouts isn't a big deal. You seem to imply that IU will be the laughing stock of football because they did light workouts for two weeks in a somewhat not structured way. Hill was pretty OCD about stuff, but it wasn't like he was Jesus. We had years when he was here with multiple injuries just like we do now.

And as for your current player informant, I'm pretty sure I know who you are talking to and I would not put all your eggs in his basket in the information coming to you being 100% honest info.

I think the only thing that is silly about this whole thread is the fact that you actually think IU is somehow suffering because one person is feeding you a line of shit to make you look stupid.

No, I think that it’s a silly that a Big Ten programs doesn’t have a structured plan, and it does set players back. However, I do think that it’s somewhat understandable considering there has been a coaching move.

We know for a fact that they don’t have a detailed plan now when other teams did, and it sets a team back further when they don’t have that plan during break, because it’s critical for guys to come back in top shape and to have had some form of structure over break. That’s my axe to grind, and it looks silly at a Big Ten program. I’m not necessarily blaming Allen for that silliness, and i went so far as to highlight that it happened at Oregon when Taggart took over last year to show that “it happens.” But it’s also not a good thing, as it was reported that the Oregon players returned out of shape. So it’s not a coahes fault, but it is “unfortunate” when a team falls behind.

I respectfully disagree that anyone regarded to Hill as being Jesus, but I do think that it was noticeable that there was a decline in Stregnth and conditioning, and we would all agree that it showed up on the offensive line and defensive line, and we know that the guy who replaced Hill is out as a result of that. We also know that some lower level assistiants who were actually vital to the program were offered more money elsewhere, which impacted some of the Stregnth and speed developement. I would also respectfully disagree that this many major injuries happened in the past to so many key players. Yes, players got hurt under Hill, but you didn’t see this many key injuries in years past. Guys like Hale and ball going out, Patrick before the season even began, Simmons, Knight limping through the finish line at the the end, Westbrook on play 1 of the season, riggins... I don’t remember recall that many injuries to key players at any point in Hills tenure.

Lastly, I personally never heard anyone say that the month of workouts hurt them, or that they needed two weeks of not doing the workouts time, but I can certinally not argue against that. And by all means, injured players who needed time were given modified plans from the training staff. So I can understand your point of not driving guys into the ground. Was Hill OCD? Probably. Guys had to show up to the weight room and actually wear a standard uniform (which seems standard at most programs), and being 5 minutes early was being on time, and being on time got your ass on the stair master. So Hill May have been OCD, but don’t know if that’s a bad thing. Some people call that structure.

 

[JohnsyRick]

For years I was on the Colorado board and we all paid strict attention to the S&C guys because of injuries, the way the players looked, routines, etc. etc. if true that there is not an S&C guy running programs right now that is a HUGE problem. From now until spring football starts the only contact these guys have is with the S&C guy. After spring and up until Fall the only coach that these players will have major correspondence with is the S&C guy. That person is a major part of these kids lives day in day out.

Hopefully what you were told is not all true and for CTA to not have anyone in place handling this is a BIG TIME f*ck up IF TRUE!

CKW must have “F....d up “ too then , because there was lag time between Hill leaving and Caton being hired. You can’t just snap your fingers and have a head S&C coach appear, plus you want to get the right guy. Better now than in January when real headway should be made.

 

[Superstar84b]

CKW must have “F....d up “ too then , because there was lag time between Hill leaving and Caton being hired. You can’t just snap your fingers and have a head S&C coach appear, plus you want to get the right guy. Better now than in January when real headway should be made.

That’s a good point, and another reason why I don’t “blame” Allen at this point. It’s up to him to get a solid guy in for winter conditioning. If he gets a solid guy in there, and hits the ground running, the team can definitely make strides. I think that anything to this point can still be offset by a good CTA hire.

 

[Orbit7958]

I'd rather have a nice flag pole

Can't blame you. Chicks dig my pole

 

[Hoosier_Hack]

First this does NOT appear to be confirmed so people should use caution on this one until it is.

This is an important role for sure, but not one to lose ones mind over out of the gates. If true, I have no doubt IU can bring in a solid replacement as I also bet there are no shortage of qualified candidates out there given rise in specialized training. And sorry but not as many personal trainers out there making $200K with all that goes with a D1 FB program.

No idea if Caton did a good or bad job (or if he’s even on way out) but if he is, think it would make sense from purely a new coach picking his own team as he sees fit and when he was hired was mid-year. He’d make an assessment like that after this season and before spring.

Lastly, I SERIOUSLY doubt the IU FB Team has NO form of training plan or NO ONE to administer it even if he was let go. Not sure what kind of coaching can even be done now but really think Tom Allen, a big workout guy himself, is casually chilling if team can be given training coaching but had no one there and just letting players do nothing? Really believe that? Cmon use some common sense!

Who would have thought a playbook wouldnt be provided to each defensive player?