Staying the course
- Thread starter snowling
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It gives me no more confidence than the first time I read it. I like Allen but starting over just wasn't my idea of a good plan. If we had to , we had to but we will learn this season if were going up or going down. I'm hoping for up, but "hope is all I've got. There is a lot of learn about being a successful HC and Allen is in the curve somewhere. So was Wilson. He wasn't where we needed him yet either and he was 5 years into the curve.
Lets hope all that self examination by Allen leads somewhere good but haven't all IU FB HC's done the same thing? Guess I was hoping for someone that knew what to do, experience, you know. If the problem had a simple fix, some coach would have figured it out before now I expect. That's a huge challenge for Allen, for any coach, a tough nut to crack. Lets hope he's smarter than those that came before.
Time for something different...winning.
Lets hope all that self examination by Allen leads somewhere good but haven't all IU FB HC's done the same thing? Guess I was hoping for someone that knew what to do, experience, you know. If the problem had a simple fix, some coach would have figured it out before now I expect. That's a huge challenge for Allen, for any coach, a tough nut to crack. Lets hope he's smarter than those that came before.
Time for something different...winning.
You made these same points in a thread ("How many of you got to read ...") you started just the other day. You throw in "I like Allen" from time to time, but it's clear you're not happy with the HC hire and that, in your view, all we've got is hope ("I hope...," "guess I was hoping...," Let's hope...," etc.) You've made your point, and we get it.
Here's my point. Allen was hired a year and a half ago. We all agree he's not going anywhere. Why must we continuously debate, in multiple threads, the wisdom of the hire? Wouldn't it make more sense, at this juncture, to talk about what he's actually doing (or not doing, if that's your view) to elevate IU football?
If you can't recognize the dramatic improvement in our defense since Allen came to Bloomington, then you're the one who needs to be drug tested.
Read the numbers I posted it is what it is. There is improvement but to say the "nations best" is just plain stupid. If you think those numbers are good then your the one who needs a drug test.
Are you sure the defense gave up all of those points or are you just looking at the final score? Anyway this isn't the 80's, even great defenses are giving up lots of points. Not making any arguments on how good the defense is but it's far from shabby.
Great defenses don't allow teams like Purdue and running backs like Jones to do what they did to IU last year.
Two plays ruined the season last year - Martin's whiff on the punt black against Maryland and the successful fake punt against Purdue. Woulda-shoulda-coulda been 7-5.
Both special teams plays btw.
Two plays ruined the season last year - Martin's whiff on the punt black against Maryland and the successful fake punt against Purdue. Woulda-shoulda-coulda been 7-5.
Both special teams plays btw.
There are 129 FBS teams. Our defensive S&P+ ranking for 2017 was 26th nationally, and we were 27th nationally in total defense. That's roughly the top 20%. I think that qualifies as "among the nation's best."
There were a couple of poor overall defensive performances (every team has them) but special team blunders, field position issues and turnovers were largely responsible for the inflated scores in most of the games you cite.
Who cares about S&P+ rankings? Is that how they score the game these days? Or is it a completely irrelevant meaningless stat?
What matters is we gave up way too many points last year. Especially with how many starters returned from 2016. It was inexcusable.
At least Allen admits last year was a complete failure. Some on here still won’t say that. Let’s hope he turns it around quick. He doesn’t have 5 years to show results. He needs it now or he’ll be gone.
My response to a post yesterday was that brutal candor regarding the state of the program was vital to its ultimate success. It really doesn’t matter that some fans refuse to do it, but I’m encouraged that Allen looked in the mirror and performed what I’m sure was a difficult but necessary review of what he did and didn’t do last season and how that contributed to the results in the field. That’s how improvement starts.
Look I appreciate your positive spin BUT bottom line is we were 53rd in scoring defense at 25.3. IU does not strike fear against it opponents because of its defense.
To put things in perspective, and this is why I don't give Brohm that much credit for last year, Purdue went from 117th with 38.3 points allowed in 2016-17 to 24th best with 20.5 points allowed last year.
So far we have played stout against patsies, but when we start holding all of our opponents to 20 points or less per game on a consistent basis then we will be a considered a solid defense.
We had a top 30 defense last year, 26th according to the S&P+. Every team is going to have bad moments. You’re loooking at IU in a vacuum and not comparing them to anyone. Look what we’ve done to Barkley at PSU the last two years. We lost 7 games because the offense, as it did in 2016, blew.
Whoever you’re responding to I have on ignore, but are people seriously still trying to argue that our defense is a problem? Because that’s just stupid.
No, the poster is arguing that the defense wasn’t one of the “nation’s best”, as the writer claimed.
I'm certainly not going to argue that it was one of the nation's best. I thought the defense was better in 2016, not by a huge amount, but better. As far as scoring defense, a lot of that depends on what kind of field position is given up by the offense and ST. We were very bad at not moving the ball out when we were pinned deep. Hopefully with a more mobile qb and a better run game (fingers crossed) that will be a lot better this year.
Sure did not hurt to have a make-up game thrown in where the Hoosiers shut out their opponent (whose name I have forgotten) in front of an empty stadium.
I guess I don’t understand what you are getting at here: that the defense is not actually improved? In two seasons, Allen has improved the overall team defense from like 117th to 40th to 26th. That’s not because of a hurricane. He did the exact same thing at South Florida as well.
It certainly didn't hurt Bama when they shut out Mercer. EVERY power 5 team plays those types of games.
But surely you haven't forgotten the shutout we pitched against a Big Ten opponent, a team that hung 55 points on us in our place two years earlier.
Honestly I did forget that it was a shutout. But Rutgers was terrible. I think I had a little Stockholm Sydrome thing going on. I I had problems appreciating the blowout victory. For example you can't cheer for Hoosier football and not cheer for the Cubbies.
I am a big CTA fan. If he had not come to IU the Hoosiers would still have no defense. And now for the first time in years there is actually a stable of respectable quarterbacks. Hoosier football is going in the right direction. And that is enough of a reason to stand up and cheer.
Oh Lord....it’s old “82” again who always complains that our schedule is too easy as it is in the Big 10 East so we need to schedule Alabama and Clemson in the non-conference.
LOL!!!
Maybe we should take a page from basketball and schedule IUPFW when they get a team?
We had to schedule a freaking makeup game because of a hurricane. You do understand that, right? Next time, we’ll get you on the phone to negotiate a game with Georgia?
The same terrible Rutgers team that finished ahead of IU in the B1G standings? They were also bad 2 years ago when they dropped 40+, but in 2017 IU had a good defense.
So any game IU loses is because the opponent is so good, "OMG liek the B1G is soooo hard!" But then any team IU beats it is because the opponent is terrible? And those results should be discounted?
Did you really think the defense last year was a "Top 25" defense? I'm not trolling and not knocking the program just stating what I saw. Sure the defense was improved, but especially late in games we wilted. Its getting there but needs to take another step forward this year.
Also based on what the article said do you think teams in the Big 10 that face IU are going "wow thats one of the nations best defenses"? I stopped reading after that.
I agree.
Rutgers was better in 2017 than in 2015. In 2015, the year of the infamous debacle when IU lost to Rutgers 55-52 after blowing a 25 point lead, Rutgers' only conference win was that game.
More a matter of semantics. No doubt the defense has improved dramatically. When I think about something being "one of the nations best" I am thinking top 10 - not just statistically but top 10 personnel.
don't get dragged along by the trolls.
if we aren't preseason #1 by 2019, the world won't come to an end.
on field, things look as good as they have in awhile, and with Wilson, we were always in a no win situation, as the instant he possibly did get over the hump, imo he would have been gone the next day looking for greener grass.
we have a great stadium, (have for 60 yrs), play a great schedule, and have been competitive the last several yrs, even if we haven't busted through yet.
while aggravating that we haven't busted through with a few big wins, the last several yrs have still been really fun to watch us.
right now, i'm more worried about out of control runaway greed in the midst of already unprecedented riches to the point of looking for "money is no object" projects to do, pricing me out of going to games anymore.
ya want better recruiting?
get more fans in the stands.
a huge percent of area families and individuals have already been priced out a long time ago, and now they're messing with pricing out a lot more and many diehards.
when we start winning big, and demand exceeds capacity, we can always raise prices then.
that isn't and hasn't been the case, and low attendance hurts game day atmosphere and recruiting far more than anything else that the administration actually has control over. (even way more so than facilities).
fill the stadium, (which we could do a far better job of if we wanted to), and watch recruiting improve.
right now, the thinking is sacrificing attendance for revenue per seat, which has been the thinking for far too long, and a significant part of why things have been as they have for that period of time.
Jones is just OK. IU made him look like Barkley against everyone except IU.
The successful fake punt was huge - Purdue deserved the win, but without the blocked punt, that game very well would have turned out differently.
The successful fake punt was huge - Purdue deserved the win, but without the blocked punt, that game very well would have turned out differently.
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Look.....the defense has improved dramatically for IU. I’d characterize it as going from horrific to pretty good. And, that’s a huge leap. Fans forget how terrible we were, like giving up over 500 yards per game in 2015. The bowl game with some of these lowlights below? Need I remind you how often this happened?
And, that kind of thing happened every single game to IU over the course of 5 seasons. We could score a lot but other teams scored nearly every possession.
I remember watching those highlights after the game and thinking to myself...This is a Duke highlight with IU as an after thought. Dont know why it upsets me but they didn't show anything positive for us.
I agree. I put it like this, from a statistics perspective... if two teams give up 15 points a game, but one team gives up 15 in each of the two teams it’s played, and the other team gives up 30 in one game and 0 in the next, then the team that gave up 30 will almost certainly be 1-1, and the team that gave up 15 in both could very well be 2-0. A lot of IU’s numbers are due to playing a weak Rutgers team, a weak Georgia Southern team, a weak Virginia team, and some other suspect offenses such as Michigan.
Now the defense is 100% better since Allen got there. No one would ever say that it isn’t much better, but I agree with you and others that it isn’t great. The stats can flat out be skewed, as you mentioned. So it’s a “good” to “average” defense when you adjust for how they play in big games, but there is room for improvement. I’m more so concerned with how the defense plays against teams like OSU, and in games down the stretch like the Maryland game and Purdue game on the road. Improvement in even the 50/50 games like Purdue and Maryland could make this a “good” or “great defense”. Not having the mental errors like in the second half of the OSU game last year will also be huge. There’s a lot of improvement needed.
With that being said I still have seen no signs that Allen can’t get the defense to the level we’d like to see them at. I think that the defense will continue to improve. I believe that objectively we all see that they have a ways to go though, and the variance in the performance has to be reduced. Going from a shutout against Rutgers to what happened against Purdue or from having mental errors in the second half of the OSU game to almost a perfect game against Virginia shows too wide of a variance in performance. It isn’t just that OSU was talented. There were real mental errors that pop Up from time to time still... at the worst moments. I think that Allen is capable of increasing the consistency, but my concern would be the young defensive backfield.
I agree here. But some tried to argue that the stats represented what the defense really is. I would push back on that idea. The defense is probably worse than the stats show. Numbers can lie. I simply say that because of the variance in outcomes. Now... you’re 100% right that the D is 100% better than it was and guys at least line up in the correct spots 75+ % of the time haha.
Your argument is interesting, but doesn't tell the whole story. With respect to your hypothetical, I agree that Team A will likely be 2-0 while Team B will be 1-1. But the difference between 15 points yielded and 30 points yielded could be a kickoff return for a touchdown and a fumble by the offense at their own 2, leading to a quick and easy TD by the opponent. Points scored by the opponent is just one metric among many in evaluating the effectiveness of a defense.
I tend to agree, which is why I believe the defense has to be more consistent. Jones is a decent back, but wasn’t the key. IU had some blatant mismatches and didn’t perform well against that line. The Purdue TE was actually really impressive as well and had some great edge blocking which exploited a safety who IU decided to essentially play as an outside linebacker in that game. Purdue was the more physical team and deserved to win the game. The difference is that I think Purdue has reached their ceiling, or is near it, and Indiana has more potential long-term. I think that Purdue is essentially similar to where they were circa 2011.
