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Starting Lineup Prediction and 2-Unit Possibility

phnxfan

Benchwarmer
Dec 6, 2008
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Playing with hypothetical 2-unit setups, here's what I think is a good possibility, and an interesting set of combinations. In the starters, you have the most experienced players, and, possibly, the top scorers, in a two-guard lineup. And in the second unit, you have the tallest and broadest, the best leaper and rebounder, and more athleticism, in a 3-guard lineup. And then you have three very smart, and capable, reserves, to bring in at any time without fear of any major loss of efficiency. Duncomb might take a while, but I think he'll be okay, and probably the last man off the bench, of the scholarship players.

Of course you can mix and match the two units at any time, and the starting unit could change, with Geronimo and Bates replacing Kopp and/or Phinisee, if either those two don't produce, but, I think, Trace, Race, and Johnson, are absolutes, and certainties, as starters.

And, I know the total height on the floor means absolutely nothing, but, I thought it was interesting how it came out, if you're into numbers, total height within 6 in, 32' to 32.5'. Using one source of posted heights.

Unit 1: Trace 6-9, Race 6-8, Kopp 6-7, Johnson 6-3, Phinisee 6-1. Total height on floor = 32.0 ft
Unit 2: Durr 7-0, Geronimo 6-6,Stewart 6-5, Bates 6-5, Lander 6-2. " " " " = 32.5 ft
Reserves: Duncomb 6-9, Leal 6-5, Galloway 6-4.

I really expected this team to be beaten, and possibly beaten badly, by the Serbian Professional team. It didn't happen, and they represented themselves very honorably, and made a statement. They have work to do, on the offensive end, but defense wins games more often than offense, and Coach Woodson knows that. Great job!

I think this team is going to be a fun team to watch, and hopefully very successful, and I can't wait for the season to start. Go Hoosiers!
 
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Mentioned this in another thread, and here's what I came up with:

XJ, Kopp, Race and Trayce and Bates will be the 5th guy. Maybe they'll try and sell Stewart on being the super sub and provide scoring and energy off the bench.

I heard the Assembly Call guys saying that CMW at some point talked about a 10 man rotation, and they were talking about a 2nd unit, so maybe a group of Rob, Parker, Durr, Geronimo and Galloway/Leal?
 
Mentioned this in another thread, and here's what I came up with:

XJ, Kopp, Race and Trayce and Bates will be the 5th guy. Maybe they'll try and sell Stewart on being the super sub and provide scoring and energy off the bench.

I heard the Assembly Call guys saying that CMW at some point talked about a 10 man rotation, and they were talking about a 2nd unit, so maybe a group of Rob, Parker, Durr, Geronimo and Galloway/Leal?
very telling that we're talking about two separate 5 man rotations and our 2nd year 5 star recruit's name still isn't anywhere to be found. The kid is really gonna have to turn it on to find the court this year.

But as a team, we do seem to have a lot of talent. That starting 5 of yours looks pretty good to me. And I see Geronimo having some big impacts off the bench.
 
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very telling that we're talking about two separate 5 man rotations and our 2nd year 5 star recruit's name still isn't anywhere to be found. The kid is really gonna have to turn it on to find the court this year.

But as a team, we do seem to have a lot of talent. That starting 5 of yours looks pretty good to me. And I see Geronimo having some big impacts off the bench.
I'm going to assume you mean Lander. He's not "nowhere to be found", he's on the second unit. I have him on the second unit, because he hasn't proven he can out-produce Phinisee. In assists, or scoring. He has a very ugly shooting motion, and has not shot well from the three, or anywhere outside. Hopefullly, that will all change with the coaching team we now have. You have to remember, in age, he's really just a freshman, first year player. And was on a badly coached team last year, so he didn't improve much from his Junior year of High School.

And, I agree about Geronimo. I think he may the second coming of Victor Oladipo. Maybe even better, if that's possible.
 
very telling that we're talking about two separate 5 man rotations and our 2nd year 5 star recruit's name still isn't anywhere to be found. The kid is really gonna have to turn it on to find the court this year.

But as a team, we do seem to have a lot of talent. That starting 5 of yours looks pretty good to me. And I see Geronimo having some big impacts off the bench.
Did you see the sequence TMP mentioned earlier when Lander came in the game and got totally taken out of the play by 2 consecutive screens? I thought the screener must've had a black jack in his hand. He just looked so weak based on that. Like a 12 year old playing with the Dads. Who knows what goes on in practice, but I'm guessing it's more of that. Gotta develop some strength, toughness and anticipation but you can't get knocked off your man so easily.
 
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I'm going to assume you mean Lander. He's not "nowhere to be found", he's on the second unit. I have him on the second unit, because he hasn't proven he can out-produce Phinisee. In assists, or scoring. He has a very ugly shooting motion, and has not shot well from the three, or anywhere outside. Hopefullly, that will all change with the coaching team we now have. You have to remember, in age, he's really just a freshman, first year player. And was on a badly coached team last year, so he didn't improve much from his Junior year of High School.

And, I agree about Geronimo. I think he may the second coming of Victor Oladipo. Maybe even better, if that's possible.
He may be in your second rotation, but based off the exhibition games, he's not in CMW's second rotation it didn't seem.
 
Did you see the sequence TMP mentioned earlier when Lander came in the game and got totally taken out of the play by 2 consecutive screens? I thought the screener must've had a black jack in his hand. He just looked so weak based on that. Like a 12 year old playing with the Dads. Who know what goes on in practice, but I'm guessing it's more of that. Gotta develop some strength, toughness and anticipation but you can't get knocked off your man so easily.
I am really hoping and pulling for him to be productive. Good for him, the team/program, everyone. But I am seriously questioning whether or not he's a B1G-type of player. The meek do not fair well running through screens in B1G road games. And he's playing behind older, stronger, tougher guys on this team. Hoping he really puts in some work over the next couple months.

I will concede, he's still somewhat young for his grade (although not as young as some like to make it) and it's apparent his first yr under CAM was a lost season for him (and for just about everyone else on the team).

btw...has anyone heard boo from CAM since March 14? Not that I really care, maybe the silence is right on par with his stiff personality.
 
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Think both Bates and Geronimo will crack the lineup eventuaaly once season starts. Geronimo has a knack for rebounding. Something IU needs badly. Bates just too good to keep off the floor. Disappointed that Leal and Galloway aren't able to crack even the second unit very well. Thought they would be more competitive.. Still young I guess.
 
very telling that we're talking about two separate 5 man rotations and our 2nd year 5 star recruit's name still isn't anywhere to be found. The kid is really gonna have to turn it on to find the court this year.

But as a team, we do seem to have a lot of talent. That starting 5 of yours looks pretty good to me. And I see Geronimo having some big impacts off the bench.
Lander may benefit from Woody's wisdom and experience. Last year was a waste from a development point of view. Lander needed another year to develop. I still thought he was good enough to contribute more than he did. Archie's system was difficult for many and especially a high school senior.

If Lander is patient, he could come back next year and play in a role better suited to his style of play. It's crowded right now, but Bates and possibly Rob won't be coming back.I believe we will need Lander in the future and I think Woody can do a lot for him. Or he can start over somewhere else.
 
Mentioned this in another thread, and here's what I came up with:

XJ, Kopp, Race and Trayce and Bates will be the 5th guy. Maybe they'll try and sell Stewart on being the super sub and provide scoring and energy off the bench.

I heard the Assembly Call guys saying that CMW at some point talked about a 10 man rotation, and they were talking about a 2nd unit, so maybe a group of Rob, Parker, Durr, Geronimo and Galloway/Leal?
I know Woody is an NBA guy and I will be told I am wrong and why, but I've never been a fan of the hockey style substitutions in basketball.
 
I know Woody is an NBA guy and I will be told I am wrong and why, but I've never been a fan of the hockey style substitutions in basketball.
I wouldn’t say that you are wrong. There is good and bad with both ways. I have seen both work. Imo you have to remain flexible and sub in a manner that fits each situation. Sometimes that could be with a whole new lineup and other times it could be just pulling one guy.
 
I know Woody is an NBA guy and I will be told I am wrong and why, but I've never been a fan of the hockey style substitutions in basketball.
I would think it's more important for practice. Even in the NBA, they rarely sub in an entirely new lineup and generally keep their best/hottest players on the floor and then rotate a 2nd unit through. But, I'd think a solid second rotation would be invaluable in practice for scrimmaging and help foster some competition, and with guys like a Bates, Stewart, Geronimo Durr and Rob possibly in that second unit, it could be competitive actually.
 
Lander may benefit from Woody's wisdom and experience. Last year was a waste from a development point of view. Lander needed another year to develop. I still thought he was good enough to contribute more than he did. Archie's system was difficult for many and especially a high school senior.

If Lander is patient, he could come back next year and play in a role better suited to his style of play. It's crowded right now, but Bates and possibly Rob won't be coming back.I believe we will need Lander in the future and I think Woody can do a lot for him. Or he can start over somewhere else.
Lander will get into the rotation this year. IMO. Woody will get him playing the defense we need.

Bates will be a starter...very soon.
 
i'm sure Woody wants to get Lander minutes as the year progresses. But I don't share your optimism yet. I value X and Rob and they will minimize the minutes available.
But conceptually, I like to think we will have commanding leads down the stretch and Woody can get our deep bench players some run.
 
Lander has a ways to go to just crack the second five. He is a liability on defense, just doesn't seem to anticipate very well and slow to react. On offense, whoever has him will slough off when he is at or beyond the three pt. line and essentially encourage him to take the shot. How this gets fixed in a couple of months seems a little unrealistic. I'm not sure yet he is overmatched at this level, but I remember Delray Brooks who came to IU as a top recruit, proved slow on defense and even though he had a better shot than Lander, ultimately sat at the end of the bench until he transferred out to Providence. CMW values defense as highly as CRMK and unless Lander gets a lot better on defense, he will see less and less of the floor, particularly when the games really matter. Being quick and a good driver may just not be enough at this level particularly for the type of team IU is building.
 
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