Starting Backcourt

WiskyHoosier

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Jan 29, 2007
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I didn't want to hi jack another thread so here it is.

Obviously some debate last night after having DG come off the bench. Still logged 29 minutes. Each game will present different obstacles and potentially different starting lineups.

This was discussed somewhat ad nauseam prior to the season and again during the first several games. Difference here is what to do once RP comes back. Is AF the first one to the bench? Possible that we see last nights starters both on the bench and have RP and DG start? 3 guard lineup against a smaller team?

Smith and TJD both logged 35 minutes last night. Kinda thinking that might not change much unless foul trouble.
 

TR32

All-American
Nov 20, 2009
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They may leave it how it is. There has only been one starting line up thus far, and Miller has not used many line ups in 3 years.

The question is how to best balance the team so that they have consistent play throughout the game.

Miller is high on Al, he may stay as the starter. Green is a huge spark off the bench.
 

rikki-tikka-tava

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Probably depends mostly on match-ups with whomever IU is playing and how RP's presence effects Team chemistry. Aljami and Green (and even Franklin) play well off the ball, and especially Aljami who is at his offensive best finding a crease to the rim or receiving the ball in space from deep.
 

jsig

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Apr 8, 2004
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My vote goes to DG and RP starting. I think that was the original plan until injuries derailed the plan. I think RP proved last year he is the steadiest one at the PG position. He is really good defensively. I don't remember the exact scenario last night but do remember a player being trapped in the backcourt and nobody came to help. It led to a turnover. Announcer quickly pointed out that the PG should go get the ball. Al was in the game at the time and I think Archie pulled him aside to let him know that. I think in those kind of situations, RP usually knows what to do and respond where the other might not so quickly.

Al and AF have played well. I expected Al to play a lot as a SG but Archie talked about him getting PG minutes before the season started and he's done well. Franklin is producing.

TBH, I thought Franklin might suffer a big decrease in playing time once the schedule toughened and RP returned. He continued to play well against a tough team so for now that theory is probably out the window. He probably loses some playing time but I think his role will remain bigger than I initially thought.

I'd rather just play big than go with a 3 guard lineup. Obviously that won't be the case all the time but I prefer Smith at the 3 while Damezi and Hunter play off the bench getting minutes there. Damezi looked good last night. Hunter has struggled being out for a year but to me has showed flashes of why he gets talked up.

To get away from the guard discussion, I like the versatility of the team. Depth is a big factor. If the team stays healthy, Archie just seems to have a lot more options on adjustments and match ups. Archie can go with 2 or 3 guards, play big with either Brunk/DD at center or go smaller across the frontline with TJD/Smith/Hunter DA if he wants to play faster/quicker. Damezi and Hunter can also probably play some minutes at shooting guard if he wants to have a backcourt with size.
 

hoosier_est_1984

Sophomore
Apr 30, 2015
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DG has always had to be grilled first, perform ONLY after...

For three years now. So why allow him to start on low motivational drive now?
Esp when and if it aint broke.

Let him come in and further reward him when hes acting right.

Furthermore,
I didnt get why Miller sat him with like 4 min left until half time when he was performing great.
 
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Cavanagh

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If, and it is a big IF, both Rob and Green are healthy they should be the starters and I would be shocked if they were not come March.

We are best when Justin plays the 3, TJD at the 4, and then Race DD or Brunk at the 5. I prefer Race at this point.
 

darkhawk returns

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Cause he isn't far removed from a hamstring injury.... RP and DG would both be starting, right now, if the team was fully healthy, at the 1 and 2. I'll leave up for debate who the would be (slightly dependent on matchup), but Smith is such a matchup problem there for most teams....

DG has always had to be grilled first, perform ONLY after...

For three years now. So why allow him to start on low motivational drive now?
Esp when and if it aint broke.

Let him come in and further reward him when hes acting right.

Furthermore,
I didnt get why Miller sat him with like 4 min left until half time when he was performing great.
 

kkott

Hall of Famer
Oct 26, 2001
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I would guess by the end of the year if all are healthy, it will be dictated by the opponent. I think the lineup he'd most like to use would be: RP, DG, AD, JS and TJD. I think if a team has a strong frontcourt he'd sit AD in favor of JB or DD if he ever got healthy.
 

ufo33

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I like Franklin but he is a role player. If Durham is much better in my opinion.
Durham is a Junior and a role player, does not handle pressure against good teams as well as Franklin. Franklin has a much higher ceiling and is a better passer and defender.

Rob Phinisee PG. - backup Franklin
Devonte Green SG - backup Durham
 

hoosier_est_1984

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Apr 30, 2015
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I like Franklin but he is a role player. Durham is much better in my opinion.
Franklin is like a Smith in the sense he could go on never taking much leap from what weve already seen from him, & stay a dud like Justin much was before coming into this season... Or he could take a leap and be really productive for IU.
Just hopefully it doesnt take 3 years to do so...
Honestly im optimistic on Franklin
 
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hoosier_est_1984

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Apr 30, 2015
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Durham is a Junior and a role player, does not handle pressure against good teams as well as Franklin. Franklin has a much higher ceiling and is a better passer and defender.

Rob Phinisee PG. - backup Franklin
Devonte Green SG - backup Durham
For those going to ride Green high you have to ride Durham high.
Hes far more consistent.
 

MG80

Freshman
Feb 5, 2008
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They may leave it how it is. There has only been one starting line up thus far, and Miller has not used many line ups in 3 years.

The question is how to best balance the team so that they have consistent play throughout the game.

Miller is high on Al, he may stay as the starter. Green is a huge spark off the bench.
Falling behind at the start of games is a bad habit, especially against the tough comp they will see in the B1G. IMO Green needs to start and play heavy minutes. If healthy, that goes for Rob too. They are both far and away our best ball handlers and passers. Al and Armaan would adequately back them up or if going small, add Al as a third guard. We shouldn’t get so ahead of ourselves thinking that this is such a great team that we can afford to bring our best player off the bench.
 
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ufo33

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Falling behind at the start of games is a bad habit, especially against the tough comp they will see in the B1G. IMO Green needs to start and play heavy minutes. If healthy, that goes for Rob too. They are both far and away our best ball handlers and passers. Al and Armaan would adequately back them up or if going small, add Al as a third guard. We shouldn’t get so ahead of ourselves thinking that this is such a great team that we can afford to bring our best player off the bench.
Green seems to play better off the bench.
 

T.M.P.

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I didn't want to hi jack another thread so here it is.

Obviously some debate last night after having DG come off the bench. Still logged 29 minutes. Each game will present different obstacles and potentially different starting lineups.

This was discussed somewhat ad nauseam prior to the season and again during the first several games. Difference here is what to do once RP comes back. Is AF the first one to the bench? Possible that we see last nights starters both on the bench and have RP and DG start? 3 guard lineup against a smaller team?

Smith and TJD both logged 35 minutes last night. Kinda thinking that might not change much unless foul trouble.
And again... Miller Rule 101: full practice players start over partial practice players. Green was on restriction and may still be. Once he returns to practice full time, he will start and finish.
 

Jssanto

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Probably depends mostly on match-ups with whomever IU is playing and how RP's presence effects Team chemistry. Aljami and Green (and even Franklin) play well off the ball, and especially Aljami who is at his offensive best finding a crease to the rim or receiving the ball in space from deep.
With our recent history it will also depend on injuries.
 

kkott

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Durham is a Junior and a role player, does not handle pressure against good teams as well as Franklin. Franklin has a much higher ceiling and is a better passer and defender.

Rob Phinisee PG. - backup Franklin
Devonte Green SG - backup Durham
"doesn't handle pressure against good teams" you mean FSU? One game? So yes AD had a bad game and Franklin played well, but I'm not ready to bury AD and crown AF off of one game. Al's proven himself over time and improved every year. I didn't think much of him at all as a freshman, especially shooting, but he became our best shooter last year before his injury. Both guys are going to get minutes this year, but I would agree, both will be behind RP and DG if they're healthy. I remember you were anointing Hunter as our best offensive player and a likely starter going in to the year, and I kept telling you pump the brakes; he's likely going to have an adjustment period. Likewise, don't bury AD just yet. Yes, he had a bad game against FSU, but he's going to keep getting minutes, as will AF and with him being a freshman, you can pretty much expect he's going to have some up and down games too.
 
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iubud

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Green seems to play better off the bench.
It doesn't matter as long as the starters can grab a lead and our subs at least maintain it. I like bringing a scorer off the bench when we make our first substitutions. The only thing I have against it is if you are going to need someone to play 30-35 minutes, I would rather it be over a 40 minute span than a 30-35 minute span off the bench.

Archie doesn't change the lineup often. Green may start soon. RP may not start this year and play fewer minutes due to the abdominal issue he has. Green might be the only change we see.

We miss RP and Green defensively. They don't need to start, but they should be in the game at the end.
 

ufo33

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"doesn't handle pressure against good teams" you mean FSU? One game? So yes AD had a bad game and Franklin played well, but I'm not ready to bury AD and crown AF off of one game. Al's proven himself over time and improved every year. I didn't think much of him at all as a freshman, especially shooting, but he became our best shooter last year before his injury. Both guys are going to get minutes this year, but I would agree, both will be behind RP and DG if they're healthy. I remember you were anointing Hunter as our best offensive player and a likely starter going in to the year, and I kept telling you pump the brakes; he's likely going to have an adjustment period. Likewise, don't bury AD just yet. Yes, he had a bad game against FSU, but he's going to keep getting minutes, as will AF and with him being a freshman, you can pretty much expect he's going to have some up and down games too.
Franklin is more mature than most Freshmen. I would rather have Franklin handling the ball than Durham. Durham and Green can shoot, playmaking is neither's forte. RP is the best PG on the team. Galloway coming in next year is also an excellent defensive player and playmaker. Hunter is much further behind than I expected. I anticipated his ability to watch for a season would allow him and Race to be ahead of most Freshmen eligibility wise. Hunter may have much more lingering health setbacks than I anticipated.
 

hoosier_est_1984

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Apr 30, 2015
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"doesn't handle pressure against good teams" you mean FSU? One game? So yes AD had a bad game and Franklin played well, but I'm not ready to bury AD and crown AF off of one game. Al's proven himself over time and improved every year. I didn't think much of him at all as a freshman, especially shooting, but he became our best shooter last year before his injury. Both guys are going to get minutes this year, but I would agree, both will be behind RP and DG if they're healthy. I remember you were anointing Hunter as our best offensive player and a likely starter going in to the year, and I kept telling you pump the brakes; he's likely going to have an adjustment period. Likewise, don't bury AD just yet. Yes, he had a bad game against FSU, but he's going to keep getting minutes, as will AF and with him being a freshman, you can pretty much expect he's going to have some up and down games too.
Durham was putting up nearly 20 points a game while Green was out.
And averaged 13.7 ppg before fsu game.
You cant even say he had a bad game with fsu. He just didnt produce much.
Ive never been high on Durham but he and TJD have been clearly leading the team all this time.
 

T.M.P.

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I would rather have Franklin handling the ball than Durham.
He has a 20% TO ratio while only using 16% of possessions. That is beyond horrible.

Al's numbers aren't great either, neither is Devonte's, but Franklin's are horrible when it comes to ball control. Also, Durham is far more productive per possession and per minute. 18.8 vs 7.7 PER. That's not arguable as close, 11.1 pts difference is like 4 tiers in proficiency..

He had a good impactful game (hope he has a lot more) but not so good (yet) that he should replace Durham. Unless Durham keeps being easy to score on and Franklin gets much better on defense to offset the offensive loss.. .
 
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He has a 20% TO ratio while only using 16% of possessions. That is beyond horrible.

Al's numbers aren't great either, neither is Devonte's, but Franklin's are horrible when it comes to ball control. Also, Durham is far more productive per possession and per minute. 18.8 vs 7.7 PER. That's not arguable as close, 11.1 pts difference is like 4 tiers in proficiency..

He had a good impactful game (hope he has a lot more) but not so good (yet) that he should replace Durham. Unless Durham keeps being easy to score on and Franklin gets much better on defense to offset the offensive loss.. .
Franklin is a better player/has a higher ceiling. More upside to getting him minutes.
 
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kkott

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Durham was putting up nearly 20 points a game while Green was out.
And averaged 13.7 ppg before fsu game.
You cant even say he had a bad game with fsu. He just didnt produce much.
Ive never been high on Durham but he and TJD have been clearly leading the team all this time.
I'm a believer in AD, and agree he's been a cornerstone for us this year, but yes, I can say he had a bad game: 2-7, 0-2, 1-4 with 5 pts, 3 TOs and looked pretty unsure of himself with the ball and on D. I think his worst game of the year, at least that I've seen.

The defense is frustrating, because he's got the tools to be a really good defender. I agree with what others have said, I think he overplays a lot, bites on fakes and screens/switches seem to give him a lot of trouble.
 

kkott

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Franklin is a better player/has a higher ceiling. More upside to getting him minutes.
yes, there's upside to getting him minutes against bad teams and when AD isn't playing well, like against FSU. I think he'll be fourth in line when RP returns and we get to the meat of our schedule. It would be very "un-Archie" like for him to trust a freshman over an upperclassman, unless he's just really outplaying him in games and practice.
 

rikki-tikka-tava

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Aljami should blossom as a scorer once Rob gets back and he's able to spend more time as a shooting guard rather than a primary ball-handler. As for his defense, has all the physical tools and works as hard or harder than anyone on the Team - he'll get there.
 
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rikki-tikka-tava

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Franklin is a better player/has a higher ceiling. More upside to getting him minutes.
Not how it works. Winning is about playing the best Players at that time - not about playing those that may or may not be better in the future. Head to head practice (where there's plenty of time to get 'minutes', i.e., experience) is rewarded with floor-time - pretty sure Miller & Co. have a much better handle on who should be playing and for how long specific to circumstances than anyone here.