Something happens to Archies teams under 8 minutes

[IUNorth]

I almost think he actually does change the strategy or something.

For the first 12 minutes, we moved the ball around, kept the floor spred, and worked inside out via the drive and post entry passes. And we looked to get stuff early in the shot clock.

Last 8...ball gets walked up the floor, we don’t start our offense until last 15 seconds. And when we do it’s congested stuff at the top of the key only. No post entries. No spreading and driving.

And for some reason we stop playing defense. I’d love to see some efficiency numbers last 8 minutes to see if it backs up what my perceptions are.

 

[Birnk403]

I almost think he actually does change the strategy or something.

For the first 12 minutes, we moved the ball around, kept the floor spred, and worked inside out via the drive and post entry passes. And we looked to get stuff early in the shot clock.

Last 8...ball gets walked up the floor, we don’t start our offense until last 15 seconds. And when we do it’s congested stuff at the top of the key only. No post entries. No spreading and driving.

And for some reason we stop playing defense. I’d love to see some efficiency numbers last 8 minutes to see if it backs up what my perceptions are.

There is a noticeable pucker, and it’s well past the trend phase.

 

[IUNorth]

There is a noticeable pucker, and it’s well past the trend phase.

It’s gotta be Archie? Players don’t generally change their style of play on their own. Especially when they’re playing well.

IU the last couple years seems to play well in the second half up until the home stretch. Then they “pucker” as you say.

I hate his subbing strategies late in games. And I don’t know why we start taking the air out of the ball. That only works when you have playmakers that can work on their own late in the clock. We quite obviously don’t. And never have under Archie.

Just keep pushing it and running your offense. If you have specific intentions, push it and run whatever play you want for those intentions. And for Cheaneys sake, run plays that get TJD the ball in the post. The only time he touches the ball late In games is 20 feet away from the basket.

 

[Birnk403]

It’s gotta be Archie? Players don’t generally change their style of play on their own. Especially when they’re playing well.

IU the last couple years seems to play well in the second half up until the home stretch. Then they “pucker” as you say.

I hate his subbing strategies late in games. And I don’t know why we start taking the air out of the ball. That only works when you have playmakers that can work on their own late in the clock. We quite obviously don’t. And never have under Archie.

Just keep pushing it and running your offense. If you have specific intentions, push it and run whatever play you want for those intentions. And for Cheaneys sake, run plays that get TJD the ball in the post. The only time he touches the ball late In games is 20 feet away from the basket.

They get into the half court too slowly, they get away from feeding the post, and they panic. Don’t know if Miller starts puckering, too, but it’s obvious that’s what’s happening on the floor.

 

[ORG]

I almost think he actually does change the strategy or something.

For the first 12 minutes, we moved the ball around, kept the floor spred, and worked inside out via the drive and post entry passes. And we looked to get stuff early in the shot clock.

Last 8...ball gets walked up the floor, we don’t start our offense until last 15 seconds. And when we do it’s congested stuff at the top of the key only. No post entries. No spreading and driving.

And for some reason we stop playing defense. I’d love to see some efficiency numbers last 8 minutes to see if it backs up what my perceptions are.

its called getting tired. And that is why he substituted more this game.

 

[Birnk403]

its called getting tired. And that is why he substituted more this game.

Opponents get tired, too. It’s not fatigue.

 

[IUNorth]

They get into the half court too slowly, they get away from feeding the post, and they panic. Don’t know if Miller starts puckering, too, but it’s obvious that’s what’s happening on the floor.

My point is it’s usually a stark change from what we do the first part of the second half. Players wouldn’t just start walking it up the floor on their own.

Heck he even visibly waves them forward earlier in games to get them to push the ball. Haven’t noticed if he motions for them to slow down late. But I can’t fathom players slowing down on their own.

I’m on my couch making this observation. He has analytic guys, film guys, assistants, etc... so I’m sure it’s not as simple as I’m making it. And if it were, he’s obviously aware of it.

In the end, it’s now predictable from my couch view. And it’s frustrating as hell to watch it unfold, over and over.

 

[hookyIU1990]

its called getting tired. And that is why he substituted more this game.

He pulled TJD around 4:30 and we bled 4 points of the lead instead of gaining a couple more due to killing the momentum we had. I get the reason, but let your gut tell you what to do there instead of the analytics.

 

[IUNorth]

its called getting tired. And that is why he substituted more this game.

Ehh. College kids. With tv timeouts every 4 minutes. Don’t think fatigue should be an issue.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

No matter what happens, IU does go to sleep at the end of games and has a hard time closing the game out: not much of a killer instinct. It seems like every team goes on a run at the end and erases IU's lead. I don't know if Archie is trying to limit possessions when IU has the lead at the end and run out the clock. IU has a problem with being aggressive and assertive, and this strategy doesn't help. If this is a strategy, it isn't working very well. IU needs to be able to run the clock out and continue to be aggressive and assertive on offense, and place an emphasis on stepping on the other team's neck.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

No matter what happens, IU does go to sleep at the end of games and has a hard time closing the game out: not much of a killer instinct. It seems like every team goes on a run at the end and erases IU's lead. I don't know if Archie is trying to limit possessions when IU has the lead at the end and run out the clock. IU has a problem with being aggressive and assertive, and this strategy doesn't help. If this is a strategy, it isn't working very well. IU needs to be able to run the clock out and continue to be aggressive and assertive on offense, and place an emphasis on stepping on the other team's neck.

A lot of coaches have the instinct to play "not to lose" late if they have a lead. Crean was awful about it and Miller does it as well.

IU had a couple of distinct advantages last night as Harrar and Co were not able to handle TJD in the paint and both Al and Rob showed some signs of life. IMO you ride that all the way to the end and not pull off the gas.

But that is just me.

 

[Cavanagh]

My point is it’s usually a stark change from what we do the first part of the second half. Players wouldn’t just start walking it up the floor on their own.

Heck he even visibly waves them forward earlier in games to get them to push the ball. Haven’t noticed if he motions for them to slow down late. But I can’t fathom players slowing down on their own.

I’m on my couch making this observation. He has analytic guys, film guys, assistants, etc... so I’m sure it’s not as simple as I’m making it. And if it were, he’s obviously aware of it.

In the end, it’s now predictable from my couch view. And it’s frustrating as hell to watch it unfold, over and over.

As predictable as Lander coming in at the 13 minute mark of the 1st half and not coming back in during the second. We let the game get way closer than it should be because of what you’re talking about and Archie looks like a A-10 coach.

 

[still4IU]

Ehh. College kids. With tv timeouts every 4 minutes. Don’t think fatigue should be an issue.

Fatigue SHOULDN'T be the issue but it appears that way. CAM said so in his post game interview with Fish. He said he could see the team "wilting" down the stretch.
Not sure how this could be at this point in the season. Is poor conditioning becoming a factor? Maybe to much emphasis on body building and not enough cardio?

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Gee could it be the other team adjusts? We only have so many answers to adjusting to what the other team is doing.

 

[snarlcakes]

It’s gotta be Archie? Players don’t generally change their style of play on their own. Especially when they’re playing well.

IU the last couple years seems to play well in the second half up until the home stretch. Then they “pucker” as you say.

I hate his subbing strategies late in games. And I don’t know why we start taking the air out of the ball. That only works when you have playmakers that can work on their own late in the clock. We quite obviously don’t. And never have under Archie.

Just keep pushing it and running your offense. If you have specific intentions, push it and run whatever play you want for those intentions. And for Cheaneys sake, run plays that get TJD the ball in the post. The only time he touches the ball late In games is 20 feet away from the basket.

He’a also not real good at drawing up end of game plays. They usually lack creativity and the opposing defense knows what is coming. Thankfully, Phin, bailed us out.

 

[darkhawk returns]

Other coaches are allowed to make adjustments, too. Their jobs are to take away what IU wants to do. IU doesn't have a ton of reliable scoring options, and not really anyone who can create their own shot. It isn't difficult to figure out....

I almost think he actually does change the strategy or something.

For the first 12 minutes, we moved the ball around, kept the floor spred, and worked inside out via the drive and post entry passes. And we looked to get stuff early in the shot clock.

Last 8...ball gets walked up the floor, we don’t start our offense until last 15 seconds. And when we do it’s congested stuff at the top of the key only. No post entries. No spreading and driving.

And for some reason we stop playing defense. I’d love to see some efficiency numbers last 8 minutes to see if it backs up what my perceptions are.

 

[ulrey]

its called getting tired. And that is why he substituted more this game.

please..

 

[snarlcakes]

Other coaches are allowed to make adjustments, too. Their jobs are to take away what IU wants to do. IU doesn't have a ton of reliable scoring options, and not really anyone who can create their own shot. It isn't difficult to figure out....

It’s also our coach’s job to make adjustments to put our players in better situations to score and recruit players who can create their own shot.

 

[T.M.P.]

I almost think he actually does change the strategy or something.

For the first 12 minutes, we moved the ball around, kept the floor spred, and worked inside out via the drive and post entry passes. And we looked to get stuff early in the shot clock.

Last 8...ball gets walked up the floor, we don’t start our offense until last 15 seconds. And when we do it’s congested stuff at the top of the key only. No post entries. No spreading and driving.

And for some reason we stop playing defense. I’d love to see some efficiency numbers last 8 minutes to see if it backs up what my perceptions are.

Maybe it's the other team moving. They're allowed to do that.

 

[Sobchak_Security]

I almost think he actually does change the strategy or something.

For the first 12 minutes, we moved the ball around, kept the floor spred, and worked inside out via the drive and post entry passes. And we looked to get stuff early in the shot clock.

Last 8...ball gets walked up the floor, we don’t start our offense until last 15 seconds. And when we do it’s congested stuff at the top of the key only. No post entries. No spreading and driving.

And for some reason we stop playing defense. I’d love to see some efficiency numbers last 8 minutes to see if it backs up what my perceptions are.

I’ve long thought our roster just isn’t that good top to bottom. We seem to consistently have an issue with a lack of confidence. Save TJD, we end up in dogfights with teams like Penn St because we are about evenly matched. A roster at a program like IU should have “dogs” on it. Meaning killers....tough minded players. We just don’t have those and haven’t since Yogi left. Late in close games we suffer from a tight sphincter muscle.

JMO

 

[ndhuntington]

Well the last 8 minutes rob runs about 4mins off by walking up the court.

 

[fkfootball]

He’s the worst coach in this conference. Nobody in this league does less with more than he does. Holtman consistently puts together good teams with similar talent to IU. I am so over Archie Miller. People keep asking these questions but the answer is on the wall.

 

[Frosty83]

I almost think he actually does change the strategy or something.

For the first 12 minutes, we moved the ball around, kept the floor spred, and worked inside out via the drive and post entry passes. And we looked to get stuff early in the shot clock.

Last 8...ball gets walked up the floor, we don’t start our offense until last 15 seconds. And when we do it’s congested stuff at the top of the key only. No post entries. No spreading and driving.

And for some reason we stop playing defense. I’d love to see some efficiency numbers last 8 minutes to see if it backs up what my perceptions are.

I also think it's fatigue. TJD is probably exhausted because to draw him out of the middle 90% of the time he is in the game his man will set the high ball screen forcing him to hedge the guard out, which the other team will take as high as possible and then reverse so TJD has to sprint under the basket and begin leaning on the big again. Now TJD is obviously our best athlete and is capable of making this play, but by the end of the game he is wearing down both offensively and defensively. I start to think playing a 3-2 zone might help IU occasionally to rest and keep their bigs under the basket where they can clean up any penetration.