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"Some of our friends on this forum are racists."

I think Trump is probably a racist. I think that is cool with some part of his supporters because they're racist too. They are the Deplorables. I think Aloha agrees with that. But Aloha is right that it's illogical and stupid for you to say that all of Trump's supporters are racists. You should be waving the white flag.

Then give me reasons why people would still love him so much besides his racism.

It sure isn't because of his policies because he's flip-flopped on all of them.....except his racist/bigoted ones.

Also, would you say someone is a racist if they support David Duke.....even if they say, "Well, I don't like his racism........I do like he wants to cut taxes so I'll vote for him."?
 
Then give me reasons why people would still love him so much besides his racism.

It sure isn't because of his policies because he's flip-flopped on all of them.....except his racist/bigoted ones.

Also, would you say someone is a racist if they support David Duke.....even if they say, "Well, I don't like his racism........I do like he wants to cut taxes so I'll vote for him."?
Haven't you posted this same post before?
 
I think Trump is probably a racist. I think that is cool with some part of his supporters because they're racist too. They are the Deplorables. I think Aloha agrees with that. But Aloha is right that it's illogical and stupid for you to say that all of Trump's supporters are racists. You should be waving the white flag.
You are correct.
 
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Then give me reasons why people would still love him so much besides his racism.

It sure isn't because of his policies because he's flip-flopped on all of them.....except his racist/bigoted ones.

Also, would you say someone is a racist if they support David Duke.....even if they say, "Well, I don't like his racism........I do like he wants to cut taxes so I'll vote for him."?
Man you have to ask them why they support the SOB. They might like his supreme court pick for the seat the Pubs stole or they might like him for being anti-abortion or that he pulled out of the Pacific trade deal or talks tough on North Korea. And some might like him because they're racist and they think Trump is too. People have different reasons for supporting people. I have a few friends that voted for him for their own reasons like they think he's going to increase defense spending ant they like that. I don't think they're racist I just think they were wrong for voting for him. Some of you white people see racism more than we black people do. It's real annoying when they try to whitesplain it also so don't do it. I bet allot of racists support him but your claim that all Trump's supporters are racists is stupid and you should stop making a fool of yourself.
 
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Read my post and answer it again!
What causes racism?
I'm not a social scientist. I think people some times just don't like people that look different from them but that's only one reason.
 
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What causes racism? People are not born racist.
That's easy to answer. Some people hate/dislike people of different race. That causes racism.

As for your 2nd point, a person is not born a racist genetically. However, if one is born in a family of racists, all s/he hears are just that. So, what do you think s/he starts with? Then they go to school, job, army, etc. Some of them observe and/or absorb other ideas, thereby modifying their views. Some don't. Which group do you belong?
 
That's easy to answer. Some people hate/dislike people of different race. That causes racism.

As for your 2nd point, a person is not born a racist genetically. However, if one is born in a family of racists, all s/he hears are just that. So, what do you think s/he starts with? Then they go to school, job, army, etc. Some of them observe and/or absorb other ideas, thereby modifying their views. Some don't. Which group do you belong?
I don't belong to any group.
 
Do we know people are not born racist? Scientists can spot it at 6 months of age. We don't know much before 6 months, it may be babies that young are too young to perceive differences.

I think we all have our prejudices. How we react to those is what determines whether one falls into the racist category or not. It is that point where your mouth will say, "All so and so's are such" but your head will catch that and say, "that is not true, what about Mr. X, Y, and Z." Racists do not have that secondary conscious filter. I think people like things simplistic, in the past we had to make snap judgments and some of that probably still remains ingrained. The easiest way to make snap judgments is on looks. Mr. Bing and I could stand in a room and the first characteristic people are likely to see is black guy and white guy. That is where the racist stops. You are this color so you are this, this, and that. I am this color so I am that, that, and this.

Determinations like that are silly on the face. Who you going to let watch your kid, Courtney Love or Michelle Obama? If you are white and you answer the former you are probably either crazy or a racist.
 
Do we know people are not born racist? Scientists can spot it at 6 months of age. We don't know much before 6 months, it may be babies that young are too young to perceive differences.
It makes absolutely perfect sense that babies are racist. Simply a matter of evolving in a tribe and clan based society. The idea of a global society hasn't been around long enough for biology to catch up.
 
Man you have to ask them why they support the SOB. They might like his supreme court pick for the seat the Pubs stole or they might like him for being anti-abortion or that he pulled out of the Pacific trade deal or talks tough on North Korea. And some might like him because they're racist and they think Trump is too. People have different reasons for supporting people. I have a few friends that voted for him for their own reasons like they think he's going to increase defense spending ant they like that. I don't think they're racist I just think they were wrong for voting for him. Some of you white people see racism more than we black people do. It's real annoying when they try to whitesplain it also so don't do it. I bet allot of racists support him but your claim that all Trump's supporters are racists is stupid and you should stop making a fool of yourself.

He didn't pick that guy for the Court. He was handed a list and told, "Point to one." A Righty in a coma could have done that. All the credit for that goes to Mitch.....who the Trump cult hates with a passion.

His "tough talk" is making things worse. And, he keeps drawing red lines that Un keeps crossing.....which is pretty hilarious because when that happened to Obama....just once......these guys CRUCIFIED him for it.

Here's yet another example of Trump lying to his base:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/white-house/article172443417.html
 
He didn't pick that guy for the Court. He was handed a list and told, "Point to one." A Righty in a coma could have done that. All the credit for that goes to Mitch.....who the Trump cult hates with a passion.

His "tough talk" is making things worse. And, he keeps drawing red lines that Un keeps crossing.....which is pretty hilarious because when that happened to Obama....just once......these guys CRUCIFIED him for it.

Here's yet another example of Trump lying to his base:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/white-house/article172443417.html
Is that news?
If Trump tells the truth, that will be newsworthy.:rolleyes:
 
It makes absolutely perfect sense that babies are racist. Simply a matter of evolving in a tribe and clan based society. The idea of a global society hasn't been around long enough for biology to catch up.
I hope CO responds, he has read many of the same books on brain research. There is a lot of evidence that humans have two different brains. One is older, and more base. This is the fight or flight lymbic system. That system tends to react quicker than our more evolved brain. It makes sense, when danger is real and present, speed of reaction is important.

Our more advanced system is what allows us to debate if Lord of the Rings is an allegory for WW2.

That base system would, by default, look for markers in people that show they are not members of one's own tribe. And for good reason.

Most of us have developed systems to overrule our base system. I am going to say something here and now that I do not think conservatives will understand based on their posting.

If I am walking alone at night and run across 4 groups, one of young blacks, one of young whites, one of older blacks, and one of older whites, my initial reaction is less tense in that order. Now I am able to quickly wrangle in that initial fear, but that initial fear exists. So i subscribe to the theory of two brain systems, one more advanced one less.

One other part of this concept, has anyone been in a work meeting and suddenly thought of something non work related? Something like where you want to eat, or remembering an event that night, or even a sudden memory of where you parked? This is the same thing, your primal system operating at the bios level that the OS level cannot read has made a decision to insert this idea into your operating system. It happens all the time and scientists can actually measure the time it takes for the bios to send that idea to the OS and have it get acknowledged.

Bios and OS are not the terms used. But working with computers makes.it an easy way to explain it.

A couple weeks ago I linked an article on empathy. They have studied people and their politics. Conservatives believe the world is more harsh and cold than liberals. Conservatives believe the best way to protect oneself is family first and do whatever you need yourself. Liberals view the world as more friendly and one can depend on group collaboration.

This all makes sense in our tribal days. We needed people to be afraid of eating the new mushroom. Otherwise the whole tribe could be killed off. But we needed someone willing to eat it to grow our food sources.
 
I hope CO responds, he has read many of the same books on brain research. There is a lot of evidence that humans have two different brains. One is older, and more base. This is the fight or flight lymbic system. That system tends to react quicker than our more evolved brain. It makes sense, when danger is real and present, speed of reaction is important.

Our more advanced system is what allows us to debate if Lord of the Rings is an allegory for WW2.

That base system would, by default, look for markers in people that show they are not members of one's own tribe. And for good reason.

Most of us have developed systems to overrule our base system. I am going to say something here and now that I do not think conservatives will understand based on their posting.

If I am walking alone at night and run across 4 groups, one of young blacks, one of young whites, one of older blacks, and one of older whites, my initial reaction is less tense in that order. Now I am able to quickly wrangle in that initial fear, but that initial fear exists. So i subscribe to the theory of two brain systems, one more advanced one less.

One other part of this concept, has anyone been in a work meeting and suddenly thought of something non work related? Something like where you want to eat, or remembering an event that night, or even a sudden memory of where you parked? This is the same thing, your primal system operating at the bios level that the OS level cannot read has made a decision to insert this idea into your operating system. It happens all the time and scientists can actually measure the time it takes for the bios to send that idea to the OS and have it get acknowledged.

Bios and OS are not the terms used. But working with computers makes.it an easy way to explain it.

A couple weeks ago I linked an article on empathy. They have studied people and their politics. Conservatives believe the world is more harsh and cold than liberals. Conservatives believe the best way to protect oneself is family first and do whatever you need yourself. Liberals view the world as more friendly and one can depend on group collaboration.

This all makes sense in our tribal days. We needed people to be afraid of eating the new mushroom. Otherwise the whole tribe could be killed off. But we needed someone willing to eat it to grow our food sources.
I don't know about the two brain theory, but I know two different regions of the brain are responsible for recognizing faces. One of them recognizes generic traits. This is the default. The other recognizes detail to identify individuals. This region activates when you see someone you know or someone who looks similar to someone you know. This is the biological basis of the old "all X look the same" cliche, but it might also reinforce the concept of the Other as something less than members of your in-group.

Behavior is complex and often learned, but I think people would be shocked to discover how much of it is rooted ultimately in biology.
 
I don't know about the two brain theory, but I know two different regions of the brain are responsible for recognizing faces. One of them recognizes generic traits. This is the default. The other recognizes detail to identify individuals. This region activates when you see someone you know or someone who looks similar to someone you know. This is the biological basis of the old "all X look the same" cliche, but it might also reinforce the concept of the Other as something less than members of your in-group.

Behavior is complex and often learned, but I think people would be shocked to discover how much of it is rooted ultimately in biology.

That would be depressing to think that such abhorrent behaviors are down to genetics. I like to think its learnt so that it's also possible to unlearn it. I suspect it's like a lot of diseases; we all have the capacity for cancer etc and it's dormant until your lifestyle triggers it.

When it comes to racism, so much of it is learnt. Kids of all races get along until a certain age -- usually when the influence of their parents kicks in, then the family 'culture' kicks in.

So much of it is also due to the inability to demonstrate empathy. An educational behavioural specialist told me once that the infants critical period is from 1 month old to 22 (or 24 months) for its ability to learn to socialise, learn empathy etc. So if you have a lack of a consistent presence of parent or adult with the infant, grows up socially more awkward.
The idea of putting yourself in someone else's shoes is critical but its not possible until you get outside your little cultural box -- and understand the issues a 'minority' faces constantly. But most people do not want to live outside their own box.
This is why living abroad, living as a minority will only help one's perspective and develop empathy.
Eventually what you will learn is that differences in culture, religion, race are relatively tiny compared to what the different races, cultures, and religions actually have in common.

I always said this about relationships between a couple of different races -- if you are still talking about racial or cultural differences after 12-18 months into the relationship, you have a problem and its not about the race or culture. You have a pretty shallow relationship.
 
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That would be depressing to think that such abhorrent behaviors are down to genetics. I like to think its learnt so that it's also possible to unlearn it. I suspect it's like a lot of diseases; we all have the capacity for cancer etc and it's dormant until your lifestyle triggers it.

When it comes to racism, so much of it is learnt. Kids of all races get along until a certain age -- usually when the influence of their parents kicks in, then the family 'culture' kicks in.

So much of it is also due to the inability to demonstrate empathy. An educational behavioural specialist told me once that the infants critical period is from 1 month old to 22 (or 24 months) for its ability to learn to socialise, learn empathy etc. So if you have a lack of a consistent presence of parent or adult with the infant, grows up socially more awkward.
The idea of putting yourself in someone else's shoes is critical but its not possible until you get outside your little cultural box -- and understand the issues a 'minority' faces constantly. But most people do not want to live outside their own box.
This is why living abroad, living as a minority will only help one's perspective and develop empathy.
Eventually what you will learn is that differences in culture, religion, race are relatively tiny compared to what the different races, cultures, and religions actually have in common.

I always said this about relationships between a couple of different races -- if you are still talking about racial or cultural differences after 12-18 months into the relationship, you have a problem and its not about the race or culture. You have a pretty shallow relationship.
Genetics won't make you a racist. Rather say that genetics mean we are all susceptible to it if we aren't self-aware. Genetics mean that being the people we want to be sometimes requires effort.
 
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Genetics won't make you a racist. Rather say that genetics mean we are all susceptible to it if we aren't self-aware. Genetics mean that being the people we want to be sometimes requires effort.


There are simple passages to life -- we generally start off seeking identity then the community and finally purpose. In seeking identity, some of those who lack empathy (as I have mentioned above) veer off early on.
In seeking identity, it's usually easier to find differences rather than commonality. So skin colour is the easiest. Then you bond with people of like minds or physical appearances ie community.

Question is how do you break the cycle -- developing empathy is the key. But there are those who think empathy is for pussies.
 
There are simple passages to life -- we generally start off seeking identity then the community and finally purpose. In seeking identity, some of those who lack empathy (as I have mentioned above) veer off early on.
In seeking identity, it's usually easier to find differences rather than commonality. So skin colour is the easiest. Then you bond with people of like minds or physical appearances ie community.

Question is how do you break the cycle -- developing empathy is the key. But there are those who think empathy is for pussies.
I don't have a comprehensive answer, but it's probably a bunch of little things. For example, the face recognition I mentioned above - studies show that your brain switches to detailed recognition not for your own race as much as for people from groups you have experience with. So even if you are white, if you are around a lot of black people, the individual process replaces the generic process. So, for that particular issue, the answer seems obvious: exposure. Expose yourself to different groups of people, and your brain will stop giving them the broad stroke treatment.

But I'm sure facial recognition is just a small portion of what's behind distrust of the Other, so there's got to be a lot more.
 
I don't have a comprehensive answer, but it's probably a bunch of little things. For example, the face recognition I mentioned above - studies show that your brain switches to detailed recognition not for your own race as much as for people from groups you have experience with. So even if you are white, if you are around a lot of black people, the individual process replaces the generic process. So, for that particular issue, the answer seems obvious: exposure. Expose yourself to different groups of people, and your brain will stop giving them the broad stroke treatment.

But I'm sure facial recognition is just a small portion of what's behind distrust of the Other, so there's got to be a lot more.

I think you need to break it down into different phases or age groups. There is a genetic component but at some point, the behaviourist science component will kick in.
Regarding exposure -- it goes further back into one's personal development. I kno, for example, a few Muslims who when to IU but because they felt isolated in a predominately white environment at Bloomington, actually went home more radicalised to the degree where they were lecturing their parents on being a good Muslim. Despite their exposure, they looked inwards to what they knew and more.
Similarly to racists, who may be exposed in a big city and then unable to cope, would go home more radical?

Ultimately, it comes down to self-confidence and the ability to adapt to changes and differences without seeing it as a threat to yourself. Embracing the differences and changes then putting it down to broadening your horizons as opposed as a threat to your identity and culture.

Everyone knows that change is inevitable but some just aren't too confident in themselves to survive it and so, want to the hold the tides back.
 
I think you need to break it down into different phases or age groups. There is a genetic component but at some point, the behaviourist science component will kick in.
Regarding exposure -- it goes further back into one's personal development. I kno, for example, a few Muslims who when to IU but because they felt isolated in a predominately white environment at Bloomington, actually went home more radicalised to the degree where they were lecturing their parents on being a good Muslim. Despite their exposure, they looked inwards to what they knew and more.
Similarly to racists, who may be exposed in a big city and then unable to cope, would go home more radical?

Ultimately, it comes down to self-confidence and the ability to adapt to changes and differences without seeing it as a threat to yourself. Embracing the differences and changes then putting it down to broadening your horizons as opposed as a threat to your identity and culture.

Everyone knows that change is inevitable but some just aren't too confident in themselves to survive it and so, want to the hold the tides back.
Like I said above, behavior is complicated and largely learned. But it's important to recognize that there is a biological component here, because otherwise we are not honestly facing up to the difficulty of what it is we want to do. I mean, how many times have you heard someone say, "I'm definitely not racist," or something like that, and roll your eyes at the lack of self-awareness? That's the problem we're dealing with here. Human nature.
 
Thought it was him. Give it up, Aloha, rational arguments, left or right, won't faze him.

That's pretty funny considering I predicted the housing collapse when "no one else saw it coming" and people told me I was crazy.

Just like I said the Iraq war was going to blow up in our faces when most people, including 100% of Righties, thought it was going to be a cakewalk.
 
I'll be blunt - your question about David Duke is absolutely asinine. I mean stupid with a capital "S" stupid. You and I are on the same page with Trump in so far that we think he's a terrible person and President. However, your ridiculous broad brush assertions you continue to make about "all" his supporters, and then "all righties," and occasionally "all Republicans" or "all conservatives" are what make you your posts worthless drivel. I recall that this was your same problem when you posted as Laughman.
 
In a separate thread I posted a link to an article about Kris Kobach. His entire shtick is demographics. The approach is to build a legal veneer around the basic idea of limiting the electorate to white people as the only way to guarantee a continuation of white anglo culture. This strikes me as a pretty pure example of racism at work. Far from marginalizing bad actors Trump is mainstreaming them.

This is exactly why the GOP Senate Leadership is petrified that Kobach may win the Kansas Senate nomination on Tues night. He already cost them the Governorship. If the Kobacher becomes the Senate nominee, the GOP could lose that seat, and that would be the final nail in their hopes to retain the Senate...

Btw, this is quite an interesting thread to revisit. Inlight of exactly who is outspokenly attacking the protestors in Portland...
 
Right. Its their policies, where they have any, that is disliked by voters along with constant attacking the other side without offering anything for themselves. They haven't lost 1007 major elected positions in 3 cycles because they put forth great ideas.

Well, this post certainly aged well... How many seats did the GOP lose just a year after you posted this? How many are they destined to lose 3 mos from now? ;)
 
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