"Some of our friends on this forum are racists."

Rockfish1

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What we learn from all this is that leadership matters. All of these gymnastics occurs because of Trump's positioning himself as a deplorable forces his supporters to rationalize their support. It means minimizing the moral stain by managing to equate nazis with those who oppose them. Thus Nazis must be reduced to mere thugs. All of this because Trump and partisanship leads them here. None of us can feel good about this, about being so dependent on something so unreliable as the moral compass of leaders.
I can't figure out how much is tribalism and how much arises organically from the grievances and resentments that seem to animate the bulk of Trump's supporters.
 

Rockfish1

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Bullshit. You are doing this to yourselves. Trump started the false equivalency after Charlottesville. Right wing media jumped on board. Conservative posters here followed suit.

No one is weaponizing anything. Your actual behavior is being criticized because your actual behavior is actually reprehensible.
Neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and the Klan organized a "Unite the Right" protest in Charlottesville, because the city was taking down its Confederate monuments. Counter-protesters -- reportedly including some from antifa groups -- mobilized against them. The protesters and counter-protesters fought with one another, and a white supremacist murdered a counter-protester.

Trump said there was blame "on many sides," and claimed there were many "very fine people" marching with the neo-Nazis, the white supremacists, and the Klan. He also agreed with the "Unite the Right" protesters that the Confederate monuments should stay up.

For Trump supporters, this is only a story about the rise of (mostly left-wing) violence from groups like antifa, which is as bad as the neo-Nazis, the white supremacists, and the Klan -- or worse. They're outraged that liberals keep injecting racism into this story. And they're not racists, despite what every liberal tells them every time they leave the cocoon of conservamedia.

The real problems today have less to do with right and left and more to do with reality and fantasy. Here in this thread Trump supporters seem unable even to comprehend the points they claim to be responding to. So we're having a dysfunctional argument in their alternative reality, where events spiraling out of a march for white supremacy have nothing to do with race -- just as Confederate flags and Confederate monuments have nothing to do with race.
 

i'vegotwinners

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"This is a serious problem on your side of the spectrum. I mean, we all have our problems, but this one is yours. You (plural) need to be able to condemn a hateful ideology without feeling the need to create a leftist bogeyman to equate it with. You (singular) are clearly capable of doing so, but you (plural) are having a lot of problems with this, both on this forum and in the general conservative populace. It's not a good look."

Goat this is what many take issue with. If i denounce the Nazi sympathizers and the KKK and also denounce the Antifa thugs how is that creating a bogeyman? Antifa thugs are just that. It no way says they are an equal as you insist. And Antifa is not a bogeyman as you insist. They are real. They are thugs looking for a fight. Hell they are beating people that support DT and for no other reason. They are not some noble group. The hypocrisy is that to my knowledge only Pelosi has condemned them. How many hours you think the news would spend on them if they were a right supporting group? And how many media mouth pieces for the left would be ripping the pubs for not denouncing them all day every day. The left is making this about equivalency in order to deflect.
"The left is making this about equivalency in order to deflect".
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i have to agree. being the lesser of the evils doesn't make something right.

that said, the political IQ of the left is below zero. (that's why they keep losing elections they shouldn't).

if you're opponent is making a total and complete public fool of themselves, just get out of the way and let them.

and that's just what the white supremacists were doing in Charlottsville, and the left not just letting them make public fools of themselves only made the story something other than just racist idiots making public fools of themselves and looking like Nazi hoodlums.

an image of the crowd just standing there laughing at them would have made a much more powerful image for the left.
 
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HillzHoozier

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Neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and the Klan organized a "Unite the Right" protest in Charlottesville, because the city was taking down its Confederate monuments. Counter-protesters -- reportedly including some from antifa groups -- mobilized against them. The protesters and counter-protesters fought with one another, and a white supremacist murdered a counter-protester.

Trump said there was blame "on many sides," and claimed there were many "very fine people" marching with the neo-Nazis, the white supremacists, and the Klan. He also agreed with the "Unite the Right" protesters that the Confederate monuments should stay up.

For Trump supporters, this is only a story about the rise of (mostly left-wing) violence from groups like antifa, which is as bad as the neo-Nazis, the white supremacists, and the Klan -- or worse. They're outraged that liberals keep injecting racism into this story. And they're not racists, despite what every liberal tells them every time they leave the cocoon of conservamedia.

The real problems today have less to do with right and left and more to do with reality and fantasy. Here in this thread Trump supporters seem unable even to comprehend the points they claim to be responding to. So we're having a dysfunctional argument in their alternative reality, where events spiraling out of a march for white supremacy have nothing to do with race -- just as Confederate flags and Confederate monuments have nothing to do with race.
Any "Unite the Right" protesters left after the parade of tiki torches or "Jews will not replace us" chants were not 'fine people'. There is a line which can be drawn and it's not very difficult to see.
 
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"The left is making this about equivalency in order to deflect".
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that said, the political IQ of the left is below zero. (that's why they keep losing elections they shouldn't).

.
And the stupidity/gullibility of the Right is over a billion (and stop acting like he got more votes)

Trump won for 4 reasons:

1) Bigotry like we haven't seen in a LONG time

2) He lied his butt off......on everything

3) The "liberal" media talked about Hillary's emails non-stop and Comey screwed her with that last minute BS report. Without that, he was finished.

4) The Fundies rushed to the polls for the Court.
 

Marvin the Martian

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Statistically speaking, I would be amazed if no racists at all were at least occasional posters on this board.
 

IUBBALLAWOL

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And the stupidity/gullibility of the Right is over a billion (and stop acting like he got more votes)

Trump won for 4 reasons:

1) Bigotry like we haven't seen in a LONG time

2) He lied his butt off......on everything

3) The "liberal" media talked about Hillary's emails non-stop and Comey screwed her with that last minute BS report. Without that, he was finished.

4) The Fundies rushed to the polls for the Court.
He won despite the left having all media in their hip pocket non stop for a year. He won because the middle class voted. He won because taxpayers have had enough with freebies for everyone. He won because he promised to enforce the laws on illegal immigration. He won because he promised to repeal Obamacare which is imploding on it's own and dems are good with that. He won because he was the better option of the two left standing. And he capitalized on a huge swell of anti politician feelings. He did not win because he was the best candidate. He did not win because of bigotry or because he lied his butt off. Hell he was blasted every week by the liberal media for something and many times he earned it. All while Clinton got free passes for everything. The left just can not admit the middle class still runs this country if they all show up and vote.
 

Marvin the Martian

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You ever run your own successful business? You ever get a job from a poor person?
I do not think I mentioned the poor, how does letting Trump keep another billion help me?

A former Republican used to speak of a rising tide lifting ALL boats. Modern Republicans think that is socialism.
 
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He won despite the left having all media in their hip pocket non stop for a year. He won because the middle class voted. He won because taxpayers have had enough with freebies for everyone. He won because he promised to enforce the laws on illegal immigration. He won because he promised to repeal Obamacare which is imploding on it's own and dems are good with that. He won because he was the better option of the two left standing. And he capitalized on a huge swell of anti politician feelings. He did not win because he was the best candidate. He did not win because of bigotry or because he lied his butt off. Hell he was blasted every week by the liberal media for something and many times he earned it. All while Clinton got free passes for everything. The left just can not admit the middle class still runs this country if they all show up and vote.
Like I said, the "liberal" media talked about Hillary's emails more than everything else combined, so how was that "being in the Left's pocket"?

Also, during the primary, he got over 2 BILLION in free ads. If anything, the media was in his back pocket. Instead of showing speeches by the other candidates, they'd show s plane sitting on the tarmac.

Right......he made a bunch of promises that turned out to be cow patties. Literally 5 minutes after he won, he actually admitted he said all of that to get people's votes.

And he most certainly is a bigot.
 

Lucy01

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Like I said, the "liberal" media talked about Hillary's emails more than everything else combined, so how was that "being in the Left's pocket"?

Also, during the primary, he got over 2 BILLION in free ads. If anything, the media was in his back pocket. Instead of showing speeches by the other candidates, they'd show s plane sitting on the tarmac.

Right......he made a bunch of promises that turned out to be cow patties. Literally 5 minutes after he won, he actually admitted he said all of that to get people's votes.

And he most certainly is a bigot.
We won, you lost !
 
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CO. Hoosier

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Bullshit. You are doing this to yourselves. Trump started the false equivalency after Charlottesville. Right wing media jumped on board. Conservative posters here followed suit.

No one is weaponizing anything. Your actual behavior is being criticized because your actual behavior is actually reprehensible.
You Democrats have an insatiable appetite for racism. You have been calling every GOP president a despicable racist for 50 years. As you increaseed the volume of this nonsense you lost congress, POTUS, state legislatures, and governors.

Do you really think your rants about Trump and the KKK are new? Remember Bush didn't send aid to New Orleans cuz black people?
 
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UncleMark

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Do you really think your rants about Trump and the KKK is new? Remember Bush didn't send aid to New Orleans cuz black people?
I recently heard Rush claim that "leftists" accused Bush of moving hurricane Katrina west to hit NO and move Democrats into Texas.

No, that's written correctly. That's what he said. Think about that for a minute and get back with me.
 

stollcpa

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You Democrats have an insatiable appetite for racism. You have been calling every GOP president a despicable racist for 50 years. As you increaseed the volume of this nonsense you lost congress, POTUS, state legislatures, and governors.

Do you really think your rants about Trump and the KKK is new? Remember Bush didn't send aid to New Orleans cuz black people?
The lefties on here don't get it nor their brothers and sisters in the country. Until they do they will keep losin, cuz you know we all a bunch of racists.
 
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IUBBALLAWOL

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I do not think I mentioned the poor, how does letting Trump keep another billion help me?

A former Republican used to speak of a rising tide lifting ALL boats. Modern Republicans think that is socialism.
You did not answer either of my questions i noticed. Trump does not keep his billions. That is just how clueless the left is.
 

TheOriginalHappyGoat

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The lefties on here don't get it nor their brothers and sisters in the country. Until they do they will keep losin, cuz you know we all a bunch of racists.
It's amazing how many of you are repeatedly called "racist" all the time, and yet, no one can ever provide an example of anyone actually doing it.
 
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Marvin the Martian

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You did not answer either of my questions i noticed. Trump does not keep his billions. That is just how clueless the left is.
The questions were stupid, no, I do not run a business. Does that make me inferior? My complaint is not with the small business owner but with golden spoon CEO and investor class.

As to who provides the jobs, why does it matter? We act as.if creating jobs is a Mother Theresa act of self sacrifice. People who hire do so because they can profit from the work performed. That is it, no great courage or altruism.

I have no interest insisting the rich, but will note Gates and Buffett agree with me. Their secretaries should not pay higher rates than them.
 
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stollcpa

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No, I didn't. You're now claiming the same lie MTIOTF did.
"That's exactly the responsible, deferential take I'd expect people to project, and how I normally would react. But we're beyond reason. Some of our friends on this forum are racists. Some are stupid. I don't know which ones are which, butboth exist, and it's sad."

So who are the names you called racists or stupid?
 

TheOriginalHappyGoat

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"That's exactly the responsible, deferential take I'd expect people to project, and how I normally would react. But we're beyond reason. Some of our friends on this forum are racists. Some are stupid. I don't know which ones are which, butboth exist, and it's sad."

So who are the names you called racists or idiots?
I didn't. Several of you demanded I name specific people who I think are racist. I refused, and continue to do so. So, now, you've apparently moved on to pretending that I named specific people as racist.
 

Rockport Zebra

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"That's exactly the responsible, deferential take I'd expect people to project, and how I normally would react. But we're beyond reason. Some of our friends on this forum are racists. Some are stupid. I don't know which ones are which, butboth exist, and it's sad."

So who are the names you called racists or stupid?
I have been called both in so many words. It is very hurtful and frustrating. No amount of counterargument can clean your slate. I am just a old white boy to these self righteous kids.
 
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stollcpa

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I didn't. Several of you demanded I name specific people who I think are racist. I refused, and continue to do so. So, now, you've apparently moved on to pretending that I named specific people as racist.
You made the statement. Either you lied or you have names.
 
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stollcpa

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I have been called both in so many words. It is very hurtful and frustrating. No amount of counterargument can clean your slate. I am just a old white boy to these self righteous kids.
Exactly, Goat and others have it down to a science to do it by insinuation then deny they meant any such thing. Just like Goat's quote I posted.
 
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stollcpa

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Your statement is simple. "Some of our friends on this forum are racist." Use whatever lawyerspeak you like to explain the statement.
 

MaxCoke

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I don't know if folks on here are racist ... but the dance they preform is something else.It's a dance that should not happen. Anyone can see it but themselves.
 

TheOriginalHappyGoat

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Your statement is simple. "Some of our friends on this forum are racist." Use whatever lawyerspeak you like to explain the statement.
And some are undoubtedly stupid. I'd also bet some are bald. We have a decently large group of posters here. You'll find examples of a lot of things. But mentioning that fact is not the equivalent of accusing any particular people of any particular thing.

In a thread discussing the sheer number of people misrepresenting the liberal argument about denouncing white supremacy, I concluded that the number was too large to dismiss as entirely benign, and that some unknown number of people must actually harbor at least some sympathy for the white nationalist cause. That's a perfectly logical line of reasoning. Now, you want to disagree with my conclusion? That's fine. But don't sit here and lie about it. No reasonable person can twist that into an accusation of any specific posters being secret racists.
 

Cajun54

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I didn't. Several of you demanded I name specific people who I think are racist. I refused, and continue to do so. So, now, you've apparently moved on to pretending that I named specific people as racist.
So let me get this right Goat. You are positive that there are racist on this board but you refuse to name them and this supports your contention that you haven't called anyone posting here a racist? Because you weren't specific?

How does you not naming them support your contention by posters stating people here have been called racist here? You have come back to posters saying its a fairy tale and no one has ever been called that, but they have Goat and by you. You just didn't say who they were. But they post here for sure.

The pretending here is claiming that posters here have never been called racist. Forget the stupid part. It doesn't make any difference because they weren't named. And by the way you didn't do it but some here accused others of being Nazi and KKK sympathizers. I think this qualifies as being called racist as well and there is no way around it. In reality Goat being accused of racism happens way to often here. And please spare me the false equivalency argument as we have worn that out.

Heres one example right now: https://indiana.forums.rivals.com/t...-forum-are-racists.156445/page-2#post-2208376
 

stollcpa

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And some are undoubtedly stupid. I'd also bet some are bald. We have a decently large group of posters here. You'll find examples of a lot of things. But mentioning that fact is not the equivalent of accusing any particular people of any particular thing.

In a thread discussing the sheer number of people misrepresenting the liberal argument about denouncing white supremacy, I concluded that the number was too large to dismiss as entirely benign, and that some unknown number of people must actually harbor at least some sympathy for the white nationalist cause. That's a perfectly logical line of reasoning. Now, you want to disagree with my conclusion? That's fine. But don't sit here and lie about it. No reasonable person can twist that into an accusation of any specific posters being secret racists.
You wouldn't have to do this dance if you quit using the word while referencing forum members.
 
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TheOriginalHappyGoat

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So let me get this right Goat. You are positive that there are racist on this board but you refuse to name them and this supports your contention that you haven't called anyone posting here a racist? Because you weren't specific?

How does you not naming them support your contention by posters stating people here have been called racist here? You have come back to posters saying its a fairy tale and no one has ever been called that, but they have Goat and by you. You just didn't say who they were. But they post here for sure.

The pretending here is claiming that posters here have never been called racist. Forget the stupid part. It doesn't make any difference because they weren't named. And by the way you didn't do it but some here accused others of being Nazi and KKK sympathizers. I think this qualifies as being called racist as well and there is no way around it. In reality Goat being accused of racism happens way to often here. And please spare me the false equivalency argument as we have worn that out.

Heres one example right now: https://indiana.forums.rivals.com/t...-forum-are-racists.156445/page-2#post-2208376
I can't defend myself against people who refuse to use English. Fine. Believe whatever the hell you want to about me. I'll have no more of it.
 

stollcpa

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And some are undoubtedly stupid. I'd also bet some are bald. We have a decently large group of posters here. You'll find examples of a lot of things. But mentioning that fact is not the equivalent of accusing any particular people of any particular thing.

In a thread discussing the sheer number of people misrepresenting the liberal argument about denouncing white supremacy, I concluded that the number was too large to dismiss as entirely benign, and that some unknown number of people must actually harbor at least some sympathy for the white nationalist cause. That's a perfectly logical line of reasoning. Now, you want to disagree with my conclusion? That's fine. But don't sit here and lie about it. No reasonable person can twist that into an accusation of any specific posters being secret racists.
Would it be that hard to say? "hey we've done too much of this and I pledge it's going to stop".