I know De'Ron Davis' improvement has been discussed a lot... but if he really added 8 inches (see https://indiana.rivals.com/news/hoosier-daily-july-26) to his vertical, I am pretty sure we will have a great season. He was already our most skilled post player last year.
Some hope for a good season
- Thread starter blue-et-blanc
- Start date
I agree that the improvements will really help De'Ron on the court. IU really needs him to log minutes this year. He has terrific footwork already, and this will only make him more deadly in the post and on rebounding.
So far I think the new conditioning coach is doing a great job. I can recall watching in person as Pat Graham hit 3 after 3 in shoot arounds. On one hand, there has always been the idea that shooting and actually playing the game is the best way to improve. But on the other hand, and his diabetes not withstanding, injury prevention through strength and conditioning training is a huge part of winning and competing all season.
This year with a thin bench, I think it is imperative that the vets are all healthy and strong and ready for big minutes.
So far I think the new conditioning coach is doing a great job. I can recall watching in person as Pat Graham hit 3 after 3 in shoot arounds. On one hand, there has always been the idea that shooting and actually playing the game is the best way to improve. But on the other hand, and his diabetes not withstanding, injury prevention through strength and conditioning training is a huge part of winning and competing all season.
This year with a thin bench, I think it is imperative that the vets are all healthy and strong and ready for big minutes.
We have plenty of depth. Assuming Newkirk, RJ, Hartman, Morgan, and Denon start that leaves Greene, Cujo, Smith, McSwain, and McRoberts off the bench.
Why would Thompson even play a minute of playing time? It would waste a year of eligibility which was the whole point of redshirting!
Is there enough bench 'talent' to get us to March?
If DD, CH, and JM have injuries, stamina problems, foul issues etc. I worry about who we have coming in to replace them.
Yes captain obvious...redshirting does conserve a year of eligibility. Obviously things can change so Why would he play? A couple reasons...he is ready to play, we need front court depth, and he gets here and decides he doesn't want to sit out a year. Also you need to relax..I'm not saying it will happen but don't act like it couldn't be an option.
I'm all over the place on expectations. We have veterans in RJ, Newkirk, and Hartman...along with Morgan. A better more athletic Davis. That's a solid core there. Not great but solid.
Shot selection and learning the pack line defense will be keys. I could see us anywhere from 3rd or 4th in Big 10 all the way to 9th or so.
Shot selection and learning the pack line defense will be keys. I could see us anywhere from 3rd or 4th in Big 10 all the way to 9th or so.
Wish I felt as strongly. MSU is the leader followed by Minny, Northwestern, maybe even Purdue. Penn St has everyone back. Iowa is a year older. Will this be the year Wiscy starts to fade? I never like counting them out.
I like our core guys. Really do. I just don't want to start the season with an unreasonable set of expectations given the talent/starters we lost.
I see MSU and Purdue being the top two teams with Minnesota, Iowa, NW, UM and IU as the next tier.
Injuries to 3 starters would be hard for any team in any year. We are assuming the freshmen are coming off the bench and that CuJo and Green are both coming off the bench. That is very likely, but we need to wait for CAM to decide where the team is when practice starts. Thompson is supposed to redshirt. What happens if he is the best among the incoming players?
I look forward to seeing the returning players under a new coach and how CAM uses them.. I'm upbeat with the expectation that we won't be seeing a repeat of last year. High turnovers, bad defense, and low IQ play will hopefully be a thing of the past.
While I somewhat agree with you (wow), IU plays Purdue once at IU. Purdue plays MSU once at MSU. I think that's a break for IU. It's hard to win at Assembly Hall and at MSU..
I will be absolutely SHOCKED if we ever see those in combination again under Archie. There may be isolated instances, but highly unlikely all 3 are constants.
I have this mental image of the first time the team gathers for an official practice and CAM goes nuts when they start playing as they did under Crean. Those habits might get broken during the summer. If not, there may be some days of reverting back to the old ways. I wonder if running stairs is a penalty like my coach used?
Can you imagine having to run to the upper deck at SSAH and running the balcony steps? Puke buckets, anyone?
DD's vertical improved 8 inches? Bryant improved his vertical 13 inches last summer, right? Is Archie living up to CTC's standards? Of course that is a joke. Bryant used that 13 inches to get extra elevation on all those 3 point shots he jacked up.
I expect DD to be a force inside the paint. My concern will be foul trouble and his endurance more than his vertical. He will pick up silly fouls playing winded plus will probably get his fair share of fouls just from being a big and playing aggressive.
I expect DD to be a force inside the paint. My concern will be foul trouble and his endurance more than his vertical. He will pick up silly fouls playing winded plus will probably get his fair share of fouls just from being a big and playing aggressive.
If we are not better than last year, than we hired the wrong coach.
I think he's referring to HOW we play, Scott.
I'd agree you can't base success/failure on the W/L record. But if we're still dealing with a TO rate of 20% or more we know we've still got issues.
(For the record: I'll bet anyone a beer right now we're lower in TO's than in any time from the Crean era)
Again, post defense is more about bulk, positioning and then height. Davis is going to be the main post but when he's not in Morgan and McSwain will defensively man the post. I'm not worried about post depth until those three go down. Still Hartman played some post as a sophomore and was effective and you've always got Priller.
Cliff is probably too raw and too skinny to be effective right now but maybe he'll surprise us.
Archie, like his brother Sean, try to push pace on offense and then play a pack line defense. Because he pushes pace, a traditional slow, plodding big is worthless to him. I believe that is the main reason why he pushed Davis to lose the weight, because he's going to run.
The conference has what, two big slow centers? Ivan Drago at Purdump and the big, fat kid at MSU. Happy is 6'9" and quick. Pardon is 6'8" and quick. Lynch is 6'9"-6'10" and average sized. Morgan can defend these kind of center which is the most common these days.
Haas is a monster for sure so you have to use positioning and push him out from where he wants to be on the post. If he gets it close in it's over. Who has a better chance of pushing him out of his comfort zone...a 200 pound Clifton Moore? More importantly on offense who is Haas going to guard? If Morgan has improved his jump shot that seems like an advantage for us on O.
This year's team has a chance to be really good and solid. We have a great blend of experience along with some young upside in Jones (high 4 star), Green (looked good ly), Smith (4 star) and Moore (4 star) off the bench.
We'll have more 4 stars on our bench than most teams have on their roster.
Don't forget Rob J was a high 4 star and Deron Davis just missed being a 5 star, so he was a very high 4 star.
Cliff is probably too raw and too skinny to be effective right now but maybe he'll surprise us.
Archie, like his brother Sean, try to push pace on offense and then play a pack line defense. Because he pushes pace, a traditional slow, plodding big is worthless to him. I believe that is the main reason why he pushed Davis to lose the weight, because he's going to run.
The conference has what, two big slow centers? Ivan Drago at Purdump and the big, fat kid at MSU. Happy is 6'9" and quick. Pardon is 6'8" and quick. Lynch is 6'9"-6'10" and average sized. Morgan can defend these kind of center which is the most common these days.
Haas is a monster for sure so you have to use positioning and push him out from where he wants to be on the post. If he gets it close in it's over. Who has a better chance of pushing him out of his comfort zone...a 200 pound Clifton Moore? More importantly on offense who is Haas going to guard? If Morgan has improved his jump shot that seems like an advantage for us on O.
This year's team has a chance to be really good and solid. We have a great blend of experience along with some young upside in Jones (high 4 star), Green (looked good ly), Smith (4 star) and Moore (4 star) off the bench.
We'll have more 4 stars on our bench than most teams have on their roster.
Don't forget Rob J was a high 4 star and Deron Davis just missed being a 5 star, so he was a very high 4 star.
I am looking for this year to set the stage for future success.
Coaching will make up the difference of losing JBJ, OG, and Bryant. We will see this year that coaching matters. We can measure his full ability once he has his recruits in house and his system solidly in place. We won't see that after one year, but we will see the beginning.
"If DD, CH, and JM have injuries, stamina problems, foul issues etc. I worry about who we have coming in to replace them."
Maybe you meant to write "or" instead of "and". DD, CH, and JM = 3.
I could have been more specific. These are issues that occurred last season with the the players mentioned. CH knee injury, JM foul trouble and dinged up a bit, DD stamina/ foul trouble. Depth will be an issue this coming year if one of those players has any of those issues reoccur.
I am excited for Archie Miller and the challenges he will face this year. There are a lot of bad habits that need corrected after the fast fast fast montra we witnessed from the previous staff. I hope we get to see this team click in the new system. I am ready to watch a new brand of basketball! However, I've definitely tempered my expectations with so many unknows going in to the season.
I've often thought back to the coaches I played for, but especially in football and basketball. Our coach in the first days and weeks established that careless mistakes would not go unpunished. Jumping offside in football or a stupid turnovers in practice had consequences early in practice and rarely happened later or in games.
Crean pushed the team to his tempo. I have always thought he allowed the team to practice and accept mistakes to maintain his pace instead of executing properly and working up to speed. If you practice mistakes, you commit them in games. I can't remember seeing an angry Crean after a stupid turnover or taking someone out for a possession or two to explain what they did wrong.
I can believe his approach to defense was the same as turnovers. He didn't correct issues early and the players repeated what they practiced. CAM and most coaches will likely have a better approach.
Very good analysis - especially the part about Turnovers.
I remember watching us play at home against Butler during the 2011-12 season. The Bulldogs made a basket and CWat grabbed the ball, took a step backwards to be officially Out-of-Bounds and looked to chest-pass the ball to the outlet man - but Butler was waiting on the pass and stole it easily. They scored a layup and CWat did the same thing again - with the SAME result! He finally took his time inbounding the 3rd time.
I think I remember coming unglued after the 2nd time... uuuuuggghhhh.....
I remember that game. Luckily I was traveling somewhere and listened on he radio. Fischer must have mentioned it, but I guess seeing it would have burned it into my brain. Sometimes a good defensive play or tripping or falling can cause a turnover.
Once in a while you just screw up. We made too many correctable errors and many from making a pass they knew was high risk. If the coach doesn't teach you to value the ball, those turnovers don't bother you. I never criticized Crean for clapping or called him "Clappy" except when he did it after a bonehead play. RMK's big single clap and stare was much more effective.
Do you remember the comparison stats I posted at the end of the 2016 season? They confirm and illustrate the bold above. One time in his 9 years at Indiana did Crean have a team finish in the top 100 in TO/gm (2015- 79th). Conversely, Hoosier teams under Crean finished 300+ in Turnovers per game three times and had a 4th year that they ranked 297th. The numbers speak for themselves.
We had a drinking game where we took a shot every time IU committed a turnover. It was pointless because we all passed out before the first tv timeout.
I refuse to believe that.
And like I said earlier- if we arent better this year then we hired the wrong coach.
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