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So who's ready or likely to be come next Season?

This board also said we wouldn’t lose much when Yogi left because we had a “pass first” PG coming in who would be better for our team. “Yogi shoots too much! We need someone who runs the offense looking to pass, not shoot!”

Yogi was the problem, not Crean. Or Vonleh was the bad apple.

That new “pass first” PG was Newkirk.

And Yogi is the ALL TIME assists leader in the history of IU basketball. More than any other player in 100 years of basketball.

The lesson: this board is crazy. We overvalue the new shiny recruit and undervalue what we have. People will see how much we miss Rob next year if we don’t get Romeo.
i don't think we're going to miss rob a whole lot, with or without romeo.
 
By the end of the year, either because of injury, redshirt, or simply not being good enough, 40% of our scholarship players couldn't offer much of anything to Coach Miller.

I think we see some contributions from Anderson based only on the fact that he's a good athlete and can put the ball in the basket. That's something we've lacked.

I think we see Hunter and Phinisee play a lot and play pretty well. They're better than Durham, Green or Curtis Jones were when they got to IU (Better players, not necessarily better reputationally).

And I think we could see Forrester contribute as a defender/rebounder/glue guy. Hell we could have used him last year. I'd have much rather seen him chasing those Rutgers guys around than a gimpy Hartman. If we don't see him play I hope it's because Davis/Thompson/Moore/Smith are all healthy, have improved a bunch, and don't allow it.
 
This board also said we wouldn’t lose much when Yogi left because we had a “pass first” PG coming in who would be better for our team. “Yogi shoots too much! We need someone who runs the offense looking to pass, not shoot!”

Yogi was the problem, not Crean. Or Vonleh was the bad apple.

That new “pass first” PG was Newkirk.

And Yogi is the ALL TIME assists leader in the history of IU basketball. More than any other player in 100 years of basketball.

The lesson: this board is crazy. We overvalue the new shiny recruit and undervalue what we have. People will see how much we miss Rob next year if we don’t get Romeo.

Losing Rob hurts. I don't see anyone arguing that.

But they sure are adding a bunch too. And guys will get better.

And I never saw anyone who thought Newkirk was anything special that wasn't named Tom Crean.
 
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This board also said we wouldn’t lose much when Yogi left because we had a “pass first” PG coming in who would be better for our team. “Yogi shoots too much! We need someone who runs the offense looking to pass, not shoot!”

Yogi was the problem, not Crean. Or Vonleh was the bad apple.

That new “pass first” PG was Newkirk.

And Yogi is the ALL TIME assists leader in the history of IU basketball. More than any other player in 100 years of basketball.

The lesson: this board is crazy. We overvalue the new shiny recruit and undervalue what we have. People will see how much we miss Rob next year if we don’t get Romeo.
This board also said we wouldn’t lose much when Yogi left because we had a “pass first” PG coming in who would be better for our team. “Yogi shoots too much! We need someone who runs the offense looking to pass, not shoot!”

Yogi was the problem, not Crean. Or Vonleh was the bad apple.

That new “pass first” PG was Newkirk.

And Yogi is the ALL TIME assists leader in the history of IU basketball. More than any other player in 100 years of basketball.

The lesson: this board is crazy. We overvalue the new shiny recruit and undervalue what we have. People will see how much we miss Rob next year if we don’t get Romeo.
who the hell ever said yogi was the problem, not crean.
 
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IU will be better next season. Romeo or not, with what they already have the team will be better.

The biggest loss is RJ and his 14 points on 12 shots per game. You lose very little with the rest of the Seniors.

Let's not forget, many times the lineup on the floor consisted of 3 guys that rarely looked to shoot in McSwain, McRoberts, and Newkirk.

The days of the 6'5 second year forward trying to guard the other teams 6'9 to 7'0 big men is over. Better talent + Better depth guarantees IU will be a better team next season. It is just a matter of youth growing up as fast as possible.
 
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This is going to be fascinating to watch. Romeo aside, I think the development of DG over the summer and fall is the cornerstone of the ultimate lineup.

If he takes the coaching seriously and matches improved decision making and shooting technique with his already established gifts of solid footwork and lightning quick hands; he gives RP and AD more time to grow into their roles. Recall that JS didn't play jack until he was ready and he improved mpnicely.

If DG comes back the same guy it will thrust RP into the role and that in and of itself will be interesting.

Can't wait...
I'm not betting on any major improvement over the summer with Green. His biggest challenge is decision making. I don't think CAM will know if that has improved until the lights come on for our first game.

If we see RP starting on day 1, it will mean he made a big impression on CAM. I would see that as a good thing.
 
Losing Rob hurts. I don't see anyone arguing that.

But they sure are adding a bunch too. And guys will get better.

And I never saw anyone who thought Newkirk was anything special that wasn't named Tom Crean.
I think we will miss Rob, but because of another year under Archie we will be better than last year.
 
Liked Rob. He was solid player at IU but when asked to run the team as a Jr. it went south because he just was not a point and did not dribble or pass well enough for that role.

As a Sr, he at least started to play D the way we thought he could and he had some great moments, but he shot less than 43% from the field (37% from three) and his assist to turnover ratio was about 1 to 1. He was a spot up shooter with poor handle.

If you add up all the numbers of the Sr class, they will not be hard to replace in the box score.
 
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I think Hunter can have a Smith-like impact. Not a starter and a little inconsistent, but has some really good games and shows potential.

I think Race can provide 10-15 minutes of depth in the post. Similar to what McSwain gave us this year. He’s a wildcard for me.

I don’t think Phinisee, Anderson, or Forrester will play much. Hopefully they get some minutes and show potential. But I don’t think any of them are ready for the 7 deep. This group is going to take some time imo. Obviously the big unknown here is Romeo.
I expect Race to be much better than Freddie. Freddie is a football player trying to play basketball. Race is a basketball player, period. Freddie had zero outside shot and very little feel for the game. Race is going to give us quality depth behind JM. And I don’t get how you are underplaying what Rob will be giving us. He very much reminds of AJ Guyton who I saw many times as a fresh. He seems like the perfect guard to be further tutored by Archie. He’s going to be playing big and important minutes for us from day one.
 
DG gets every chance to start and play big minutes at point, but he really needs to improve ball handling and decision making. RP will get minutes simply because he is a natural point with a handle and passing skills. If Durham bulks up, he becomes a lock down guard with size and that gets him on the court. Langford plays if he comes because at this point he would be the best shooter on the team. So minutes will come down to who defends. The other possibility is Hunter playing SG as much as he plays SF, especially if Langford goes anywhere else. DA can help by scoring the ball, but I'm not sure where he fits in best. Is it as a spot up shooter? Maybe. Still think they need to add a grad transfer with a handle and/or shooting ability.

I'm all in on Race Thompson. He's worked his butt off to be in great shape and he had skills already. He's not a project and had an entire season to learn the system and get ready. He will be on the court a lot and I continue to say Morgan, Smith and Thompson can be the best forward group in the B1G. That's not counting Hunter who really makes this a strong group albeit young and McRobert, who could be a defensive stopper. If he can add a jumper he becomes dangerous and teams will have to guard him. Sky is the limit for this group.

Davis, Forrester, and Moore - will either of them be ready to defend or rebound against other quality bigs? If the answer is yes, IU can match up with anyone and they become a special team next season. If not, they are still in better position than last season but will struggle against size. Show me a picture of Clifton Moore developing his body the way Race Thompson did and it really gets exciting.
This is an excellent post, thank you! Archie, I pray, will never again be in a position to be forced into having two, or at times three, non offensive players like McRob, Freddie and Al on the floor at the same times. That was an awful situation. The newbies and Race, a developing DeVonte, and possibly a guy like Taylor and (fingers crossed) Romeo, will provide a far more diversified offense for this team. Also look forward to JM being more dangerous in mismatches and single coverages. The future is bright.
 
who the hell ever said yogi was problem, not crean.

Nobody said that. Just like nobody said Moore was going to do much when he came in.....have no idea where he is getting this.

I remember when Newkirk signed, many of us where like "WTF?". And this years Freshman class was a reason people wanted Crean gone.
 
We need Romeo like we needed Blackmon this year...to give us a guy who is an elite scorer from the perimeter.

Rob had a couple of.games, and we tended to win those games, but he wasn't consistent. If he was off it got really scary, especially when Green was not playing well.

Rob played his ass off on defense. We'll definitely miss that from him. I don't see anyone coming who will replace that off the bat.

However we should be much improved in all other aspects with next year's roster. We're more athletic, we're much more 'lengthier', which should translate to being much better defensively as a whole. We should also be a much better rebounding team.

Plus it's year two and the returning guys will have a better idea of how Archie wants to play, particularly his defensive principles.

If you watch Race Thompson in AAU, he plays a lot like Blake Griffin. Meaning he's not Blake Griffin of course (Blake is 6'10" with power and athleticism that can leap small buildings), but his game 'looks' similar against 6 foot teenagers to how Griffin plays IN THE NBA. He's got really good speed- is much faster than you'd think, he handles the ball more than you'd think especially on the break, has an okay shot but mainly plays like a wrecking ball. He's not a post, he's a small forward in a power forward body with a football mentality.

Hunter has really good length and athleticism. Supposedly also has a decent handle and a really good, promising shot.

Anyway, there might not be one guy who becomes a stud next year...but between Forrester, Thompson, Hunter, Smith and then with Davis, Morgan, McRoberts and Moore we have a much stronger roster of athletic bangers than we had this year to rotate in.

If just two of them blow up (say Smith and Hunter) to go with Morgan...that's much better than what we had this year which ended up Morgan, McSwain, Smith and McRoberts.

Romeo is so important only from the aspect that we don't have a pool of shooting guards with potential like our frontcourt. He fills such a glaring need if he comes. If he doesn't we have to find a solid shooting guard from somewhere like Taylor instead of hoping that Anderson can come in off the bat.
 
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I think Green can be as good or better than Rojo as a scoring guard. It seems many want him to be the PG though. That's fine. All for players developing and improving their game but I'd have him on short leash as a PG. If he doesn't show any improvement in the PG role over last year when it come to silly turnovers then he plays more a role like rojo either off the bench behind Romeo or as the starter.

I'll admit I thought rojo could develop after Yogi left to play PG but it never happened. I never bought into Newkirk after seeing him play.
 
Losing Rob hurts. I don't see anyone arguing that.

But they sure are adding a bunch too. And guys will get better.

And I never saw anyone who thought Newkirk was anything special that wasn't named Tom Crean.
maybe his senior mentorship.it's always nice to have some seniors on the roster. but that's about it.
 
Ive been on here a long time and about the only thing I’ve learned is the incoming recruiting class is overhyped by fans every single year. It never fails. Which makes sense. Humans are emotional beings.

Last year was Moore...he was going to be a big contributor by Big Ten season, possibly even starting.

The year before was Davis.

Anyone remember “The Movement”?

The reality is very rarely do recruits ranked outside the top 30-40 make much of an impact their freshman year. Next year we have one top 100 recruit currently.

The success or failure of next year’s team will likely come from returning players. And Romeo! :)

Seems like you are purposely understating the incoming class' talent level with this comment. See, you say IU has 1 top 100 recruit; I say they have four 4 star recruits. Both are accurate as it pertains to rivals.com. Which one sounds better?

And is any fan (not talking to you directly) on a XXXX message board who likely has never seen any of them in person and even more likely hasn't even heard of half of them, really going to tell me all the inherent differences between the 104 4 stars slotted between 29 and 133 on rivals.com recruiting rankings?


*Edited
 
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I'm not betting on any major improvement over the summer with Green. His biggest challenge is decision making. I don't think CAM will know if that has improved until the lights come on for our first game.

If we see RP starting on day 1, it will mean he made a big impression on CAM. I would see that as a good thing.

If he doesn't improve then he will have to decide if coming off the bench is acceptable for him. He may need to move on, but I would like to see him progress as I like the swagger and those hands.
 
By the end of the year, either because of injury, redshirt, or simply not being good enough, 40% of our scholarship players couldn't offer much of anything to Coach Miller.

I think we see some contributions from Anderson based only on the fact that he's a good athlete and can put the ball in the basket. That's something we've lacked.

I think we see Hunter and Phinisee play a lot and play pretty well. They're better than Durham, Green or Curtis Jones were when they got to IU (Better players, not necessarily better reputationally).

And I think we could see Forrester contribute as a defender/rebounder/glue guy. Hell we could have used him last year. I'd have much rather seen him chasing those Rutgers guys around than a gimpy Hartman. If we don't see him play I hope it's because Davis/Thompson/Moore/Smith are all healthy, have improved a bunch, and don't allow it.
Just curious, how do you decide Phinisee and Hunter are better than Jones? Because the experts who are paid to evaluate this disagree. Is there a reason or just wishful thinking?
 
Losing Rob hurts. I don't see anyone arguing that.

But they sure are adding a bunch too. And guys will get better.

And I never saw anyone who thought Newkirk was anything special that wasn't named Tom Crean.
You must be new. Before he played a game he was declared a better fit for IU and better for the team than Yogi. Because he was “pass first”. It was a crazy time on here.
 
I expect Race to be much better than Freddie. Freddie is a football player trying to play basketball. Race is a basketball player, period. Freddie had zero outside shot and very little feel for the game. Race is going to give us quality depth behind JM. And I don’t get how you are underplaying what Rob will be giving us. He very much reminds of AJ Guyton who I saw many times as a fresh. He seems like the perfect guard to be further tutored by Archie. He’s going to be playing big and important minutes for us from day one.
You’re talking about guys who have never played a college game. Again, we do this every year. Last year was Moore. The year before was Davis. The Movement? It’s every single year.
 
Seems like you are purposely understating the incoming class' talent level with this comment. See, you say IU has 1 top 100 recruit; I say they have four 4 star recruits. Both are accurate as it pertains to rivals.com. Which one sounds better?

And is any fan (not talking to you directly) on a XXXX message board who likely has never seen any of them in person and even more likely hasn't even heard of half of them, really going to tell me all the inherent differences between the 104 4 stars slotted between 29 and 133 on rivals.com recruiting rankings?


*Edited
I can tell you based on history the vast majority of players ranked 100+ out of HS rarely even see the court as freshmen, let alone make a meaningful impact. That’s just reality. Hopefully this group Bucks the trend.
 
Ive been on here a long time and about the only thing I’ve learned is the incoming recruiting class is overhyped by fans every single year. It never fails. Which makes sense. Humans are emotional beings.

Last year was Moore...he was going to be a big contributor by Big Ten season, possibly even starting.

The year before was Davis.

Anyone remember “The Movement”?

The reality is very rarely do recruits ranked outside the top 30-40 make much of an impact their freshman year. Next year we have one top 100 recruit currently.

The success or failure of next year’s team will likely come from returning players. And Romeo! :)

I agree with most, but again, beg your pardon to disagree a bit, not entirely, on the rankings thing.

I randomly picked a year, 2007, then found Evan Turner and Jeff Teague as freshmen ranked right around 50. Turner started about 2/3 of the season and Teague about 1/3.

As I've pointed out, Hunter, whom you seem to agree is solid, is likely to start quite a bit simply based on ranking.

I could see a front line of Morgan, Smith, and Hunter, with Green and Rob Phin, and Davis coming off the bench while he improves his health.

If Langford comes, there will be at least 2 freshmen starters, in my opinion.

Nothing against Durham, I like Durham and think he will start too, but I see Phinesee working into that line up. He is a very bright kid, good athlete, and excellent scoring PG. I don't think he will start the whole season, but I think he will some. And I definitely think Hunter will start. Maybe not game one, but soon there after.
 
You must be new. Before he played a game he was declared a better fit for IU and better for the team than Yogi. Because he was “pass first”. It was a crazy time on here.

To go had a good senior year. Other than that, his score first mentality was always a problem in terms of winning games. I like inside out basketball, and it seems, so does Archie. Once IU has some outside shooting this new system will suit the Hoosiers nicely.
 
To go had a good senior year. Other than that, his score first mentality was always a problem in terms of winning games. I like inside out basketball, and it seems, so does Archie. Once IU has some outside shooting this new system will suit the Hoosiers nicely.
Thank you for at least admitting your delusions.
 
I can tell you based on history the vast majority of players ranked 100+ out of HS rarely even see the court as freshmen, let alone make a meaningful impact. That’s just reality. Hopefully this group Bucks the trend.

Indiana will be a better team next year with or without Romeo. They will get most of their production from guys already on the team. Morgan, Davis, Green, Durham and Smith will be the nucleus of the team, which will be an improvement from this year. Indiana doesn't need all 5 freshmen to come in and play meaningful minutes. They will need 2 of them to make an impact like Smith did this year.
 
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Indiana will be a better team next year with or without Romeo. They will get most of their production from guys already on the team. Morgan, Davis, Green, and Smith will be the nucleus of the team, which will be an improvement from this year. Indiana doesn't need all 5 freshmen to come in and play meaningful minutes. They will need 2 of them to make an impact like Smith did this year.
Agree to strongly disagree
 
Just curious, how do you decide Phinisee and Hunter are better than Jones? Because the experts who are paid to evaluate this disagree. Is there a reason or just wishful thinking?

Coach Crean was paid $3.2 million a year and he brought in Tim Priller so sometimes people just make mistakes even if they are paid to do it for a living

As far as Jones… When a guy doesn't really do anything other than shoot, and his shot is really, really ugly then I don't view him as a real guy. And it turned out that he wasn't.

I like that Phinisee and Hunter do more than one thing well. To me that's an immediate upgrade over a guy like Jones.
 
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A kid that plays smart fundamental ball that hustles every second of the game and plays defense is what i feel CAM will surround himself with. I really liked the way he coached this years team as deficient as it was. Turnovers got you a seat on the bench. Poor defense got you a seat on the bench. Poor shot selection got you a seat on the bench. Missed shots were not IU's problem this year and we shot it really poorly a lot of games. Free throw shooting was a real issue and one i suspect will get better as the shooting talent arrives. I like the direction we are headed recruiting wise as well. Just play hard nosed defense and make the simple plays. Defend like it is the last possession every possession. IU is in good hands for a change.
 
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Agree to strongly disagree

I’m stunned......

Trade ....

McSwain
Johnson
Priller
Newkirk
Hartman

For....
Davis (healthy)
Thompson (RS)
Hunter
Phinisee
Forester
Anderson

Sure kid.....lol

And of course you have multiple grad transfers IU is after......that doesn’t include Romeo

How is Brad doing?
 
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I can tell you based on history the vast majority of players ranked 100+ out of HS rarely even see the court as freshmen, let alone make a meaningful impact. That’s just reality. Hopefully this group Bucks the trend.

Poole from Michigan was ranked #106...

Averaging 6pts a game.....

“Rarely see the court”?

Eastern from Purdue was #77 and a lot of Purdue fans thought he should have been starting at point at the end of the year

And Hunter is top 50, much like Watford and Creek.

And Thompson is a RS Freshman
 
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I can tell you based on history the vast majority of players ranked 100+ out of HS rarely even see the court as freshmen, let alone make a meaningful impact. That’s just reality. Hopefully this group Bucks the trend.

Please substantiate this. I don't think this is an accurate statement at all.
 
I’m stunned......

Trade ....

McSwain
Johnson
Priller
Newkirk
Hartman

For....
Davis (healthy)
Thompson (RS)
Hunter
Phinisee
Forester
Anderson

Sure kid.....lol

And of course you have multiple grad transfers IU is after......that doesn’t include Romeo

How is Brad doing?
Rob was voted by Big Ten coaches as a top 20 player in the conference. No one on that list (besides Romeo) is going to replace him.

We’re losing a lot of experience for freshmen ranked outside the top 100. Romeo would change everything. And I think we’ll get him.

Brad is doing well by the way. Too bad Fred was shortsighted like you in 2011 and didn’t go hire him.
 
Poole from Michigan was ranked #106...

Averaging 6pts a game.....

“Rarely see the court”?

Eastern from Purdue was #77 and a lot of Purdue fans thought he should have been starting at point at the end of the year

And Hunter is top 50, much like Watford and Creek.

And Thompson is a RS Freshman
6 points per game?

Should have been starting?

Those are your arguments for saying 100+ rated recruits make a big impact as freshmen? That’s all you could come up with?

I’m not saying they won’t play. I’m saying they’re not going to put up numbers like Rob year 1
 
Rob was voted by Big Ten coaches as a top 20 player in the conference. No one on that list (besides Romeo) is going to replace him.

We’re losing a lot of experience for freshmen ranked outside the top 100. Romeo would change everything. And I think we’ll get him.

Brad is doing well by the way. Too bad Fred was shortsighted like you in 2011 and didn’t go hire him.

IU loses 5 players, Johnson is ONE of them. There are 4 other players that failed on the floor or gave IU nothing.....

Johnson was solid, but to say he alone is better than the guys coming in combined is wrong.

You are forgetting Thompson and a healthy Davis. Just that alone is better than Johnson.

“Like me”.....lol. Just like everyone thought Newkirk was going to be good and everyone thought Moore was going to be good. Straw man much?

IU gets Romeo, IU is top 25 next year.

IU gets Romeo and the kid from Evansville, they are top 15 and challenge for the B10 title.
 
IU loses 5 players, Johnson is ONE of them. There are 4 other players that failed on the floor or gave IU nothing.....

Johnson was solid, but to say he alone is better than the guys coming in combined is wrong.

You are forgetting Thompson and a healthy Davis. Just that alone is better than Johnson.

“Like me”.....lol. Just like everyone thought Newkirk was going to be good and everyone thought Moore was going to be good. Straw man much?

IU gets Romeo, IU is top 25 next year.

IU gets Romeo and the kid from Evansville, they are top 15 and challenge for the B10 title.
It’s always next year. Always next class. We’ve been doing this for 20 years.

I agree with Romeo we’re a top 25 team. No doubt about it. But without him we’re not making the tourney yet again. He’s Archie’s Cody zeller
 
Just go look at our previous recruiting classes. Maybe 10% play more than 10mpg

Oh, the last class? the class that helped get Crean fired?

The one before? Where Green as a 3 star Freshman helped beat Kansas to start the season? Averaging 15 mins a game.

Or the one before that with 3 star freshman OG? Averaging 14 mins a game. With 3 star Morgan 10 mins a game.
 
It’s always next year. Always next class. We’ve been doing this for 20 years.

I agree with Romeo we’re a top 25 team. No doubt about it. But without him we’re not making the tourney yet again. He’s Archie’s Cody zeller

“He’s Archie’s Cody”

Thank you, that’s all I need kid.....lol

Now, go get your Brad autographed mini ball and click your heels together.

Can’t wait till next year. Might have to save these posts.
 
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