So when trump goes to jail

[wiede]

It is the lies + campaign crimes + Russian collusion + money laundering + sexual assault + obstruction of justice + ...

You forgot a complete lack of knowing what reality actually is. I seriously think the guy believes a lot of his own lies, because no one in his orbit challenges him. And if they do challenge him, they don’t last very long.

That’s quite the list. Any one of those should be enough for impeachment. Together, it’s insane that it isn’t seriously being discussed. I think it’s pretty clear one of those will ultimately take him down, but it may be a while before it happens. Which is a good thing- our system is designed to have due process. Even if something is very likely, you still gotta prove it.

 

[iu_a_att]

You forgot a complete lack of knowing what reality actually is. I seriously think the guy believes a lot of his own lies, because no one in his orbit challenges him. And if they do challenge him, they don’t last very long.

That’s quite the list. Any one of those should be enough for impeachment. Together, it’s insane that it isn’t seriously being discussed. I think it’s pretty clear one of those will ultimately take him down, but it may be a while before it happens. Which is a good thing- our system is designed to have due process. Even if something is very likely, you still gotta prove it.

See...those are all "process" crimes...meaning they are the crimes that subvert our processes to get them the outcomes they want. As long as they get the outcomes they want they don't care about process.

 

[Cortez88]

Good grief people.... lighten up a bit. I liked @NPT post, as it was clearly a joke. And in every good joke there is a bit of truth.

There isn't much "debate" on this forum because there is very little to debate. That's all he was poking fun towards.

Trump sucks and is a terrible person and even worse President... many (most) people here agree with that. But hell, I've been saying that for 3+ years now.... after a while it gets stale and boring. I mean, how many times can it be repeated?

The most consequential policy action his admin is taking is the Chinese trade war. But most people's eyes glaze over when that is discussed.

I gwt this and I think we are all exhausted about how awful Individual 1 is and has been. However, all of this has shown how fragile our democracy really is. Our country is largely based on norms, conventions and institutions. We are now seeing a president and GOP leaders blowing all of that up.

Every time we don’t call them on the misdeed, the line is moved. Hell, it’s been moved a lot already. The senate just seated a judge who didn’t have ABA backing. The home state senator rule was tossed out by Grasserly. These are not laws but they are ways we ran this country. One side decided that they don’t want to play by the rules any more. We cannot sit idly by.

 

[wiede]

I gwt this and I think we are all exhausted about how awful Individual 1 is and has been. However, all of this has shown how fragile our democracy really is. Our country is largely based on norms, conventions and institutions. We are now seeing a president and GOP leaders blowing all of that up.

Every time we don’t call them on the misdeed, the line is moved. Hell, it’s been moved a lot already. The senate just seated a judge who didn’t have ABA backing. The home state senator rule was tossed out by Grasserly. These are not laws but they are ways we ran this country. One side decided that they don’t want to play by the rules any more. We cannot sit idly by.

Yes! Well said.

It’s their attempt at one last power grab. The demographics and party platform are shifting towards older and more white. That doesn’t bode well long term for the party. And they know it. If they don’t do this now, they risk becoming a minority party pretty fast, with little power.

It all happened faster than I expected. I knew there would be a backlash against Obama, and if the Dems didn’t nominate a bad candidate (but still light years ahead of Trump), it would’ve been staved off for a while.

I have faith that the voters will restore what’s right with this country in 2020. They largely did in this midterm. Ultimately, it’s the voters that determine the path of this country. Some of them have seen their voting power diminished (looking at NC & WI), but the vast majority will correct course the next time around.

 

[wiede]

You forgot a complete lack of knowing what reality actually is. I seriously think the guy believes a lot of his own lies, because no one in his orbit challenges him. And if they do challenge him, they don’t last very long.

That’s quite the list. Any one of those should be enough for impeachment. Together, it’s insane that it isn’t seriously being discussed. I think it’s pretty clear one of those will ultimately take him down, but it may be a while before it happens. Which is a good thing- our system is designed to have due process. Even if something is very likely, you still gotta prove it.

Also forgot emolument clause violations. There’s just so damn many things to keep up with on this guy.

 

[NPT]

We didn't have a "choice between two criminals". We had a choice between one criminal and one not criminal. There is no equivalence between Trump and pretty much any candidate for President since, perhaps, Harding.

Sure there is... Bing and Aloha have both stated that they would be in deep trouble if they had treated classified material the way she did. You can't bring yourself to admit that there are different rules for people like her and people like Bing and Aloha.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Sure there is... Bing and Aloha have both stated that they would be in deep trouble if they had treated classified material the way she did. You can't bring yourself to admit that there are different rules for people like her and people like Bing and Aloha.

That doesn't make her a criminal, and most importantly, it doesn't make her misdeeds equivalent to those of Trump.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

I was talking about your other last line, about me being what’s wrong with the country.

He knew that.

 

[UncleMark]

That doesn't make her a criminal, and most importantly, it doesn't make her misdeeds equivalent to those of Trump.

You will never convince the Lock Her Up crowd of that. What Trump has done (assuming all indications are even close to being true) borders on treason; he has abused his office, has obstructed justice, has obliterated our standing in the world, has brought opprobrium upon the Presidency, and has engaged in other felonious conduct. As stupid, disgusting, and cavalier the Clintons may be, they don't hold a candle to him.

 

[iu_a_att]

That doesn't make her a criminal, and most importantly, it doesn't make her misdeeds equivalent to those of Trump.

Another case of what Goat said is on the money.

 

[Rockfish1]

Sure there is... Bing and Aloha have both stated that they would be in deep trouble if they had treated classified material the way she did. You can't bring yourself to admit that there are different rules for people like her and people like Bing and Aloha.

There’s a difference between discipline at work and criminal prosecution under the Espionage Act.

 

[twenty02]

Another case of what Goat said is on the money.

Don't get his ego going!

 

[Stuffshot]

It is the lies + campaign crimes + Russian collusion + money laundering + sexual assault + obstruction of justice + ...

Yeah, no kidding.

It's also:

profiting from his nomination and election as President,

abandoning our International allies,

undermining the NIH,

undermining the FOMC,

undermining the two-party system (he even hates many Republicans),

undermining the science of global warming (regardless whether it was by people or natural causes),

undermining the value of a free press

undermining national education programs,

ignoring crumbling infrastructure (except wanting to build a wall),

undermining the FBI,

undermining the rest of the DOJ, too.

Trump is himself a threat to national security, because he can't be relied on to honor his own stated policy goals and on top of that intentionally lies and misinforms about the things he actually has done.

 

[IUBBALLAWOL]

Defending or objecting to policy either means you are a Trump supporter or a racist. Depending on if we talk about DJT or BHO. Policy can not possibly be the reason you agree or disagree with someone.

 

[Stuffshot]

Defending or objecting to policy either means you are a Trump supporter or a racist. Depending on if we talk about DJT or BHO. Policy can not possibly be the reason you agree or disagree with someone.

Nor does it seem to matter whether the person you are still complaining about is in office or not.