So is the military part of the "alt-right" that Antifa is opposing?

[Aloha Hoosier]

I wonder why these Antifa morons would be smashing Marine Corps recruiting station windows if they're only opposed to fascist groups and white supremacists?

These guys might screw up the Democrats chances to win the House, which by they way, I'm on record for supporting in my ultimate goal of purging the Republican party of Trumpism.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

I wonder why these Antifa morons would be smashing Marine Corps recruiting station windows if they're only opposed to fascist groups and white supremacists?

These guys might screw up the Democrats chances to win the House, which by they way, I'm on record for supporting in my ultimate goal of purging the Republican party of Trumpism.

They probably weren't Antifa proper. More likely anarchists.

 

[Quix0te]

They probably weren't Antifa proper. More likely anarchists.

"...Antifa proper..." And Goat denies that the alt-left exists.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

They probably weren't Antifa proper. More likely anarchists.

Seriously? "Antifa proper?" Come on, Goat.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

They probably weren't Antifa proper. More likely anarchists.

Ehhhh. I think it’d be hard to ID Antifa proper at this point. Let’s just say that the Berkeley contingent needs to disappear and quickly.

 

[Hoosier_Hack]

They should continue to exercise their rights. Please continue

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Ehhhh. I think it’d be hard to ID Antifa proper at this point. Let’s just say that the Berkeley contingent needs to disappear and quickly.

If people are going to insist on calling them "Antifa," then I will insist on accuracy.

 

[IDontWannaLargeFarva]

If people are going to insist on calling them "Antifa," then I will insist on accuracy.

I took it as a jab at the "Not a true conservative" rebuttal for every time a person criticizes White Nationalists.

Glad you're beginning to realize that not every political party should be defined by its extremes.

 

[zeke4ahs]

I took it as a jab at the "Not a true conservative" rebuttal for every time a person criticizes White Nationalists.

Glad you're beginning to realize that not every political party should be defined by its extremes.

Except when you voted that extreme to be president. Then it kind of needs to be defined that way.

 

[DrHoops]

Two idiots broke their window during a riot and “the recruiting station is continuing to conduct business as normal,”

Yawn.

 

[IDontWannaLargeFarva]

Except when you voted that extreme to be president. Then it kind of needs to be defined that way.

You'll have a hard time proving Trump a White Nationalist. He might cater to them occasionally, which is gross, but I don't think he's a racist himself.

Plus extreme conservatives don't launch trade wars and huge spending packages.

I've told you umpteenth times I didn't vote for Trump, you got some sort of memory loss?

 

[twenty02]

I wasn’t personally calling you a hillbilly. If it came across that way, I apologize. Trump is from Manhattan and he’s basically the hillbilly in chief. To answer your question, I was referring to the numerous people on this board that defend every despicable thing that comes out of Trump’s mouth, then throw in the qualifier that they didn’t vote for him.

FWIW.....i can't think of too many vocal Trump defenders here that say they didn't vote for him.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Except when you voted that extreme to be president. Then it kind of needs to be defined that way.

You'll have a hard time proving Trump a White Nationalist. He might cater to them occasionally, which is gross, but I don't think he's a racist himself.

Plus extreme conservatives don't launch trade wars and huge spending packages.

I've told you umpteenth times I didn't vote for Trump, you got some sort of memory loss?

He’s without a doubt a racist. And has been ever since he got a suit slapped in him for not renting to blacks. You’re in deep denial if you can’t see that. ( you meaning your party)

 

[Morrison]

FWIW.....i can't think of too many vocal Trump defenders here that say they didn't vote for him.

Fair enough. I know there are a few that do that consistently, however. I shouldn’t be posting tonight because of impairment. I’m just so incredulous these days that Trump has any support whatsoever in this country. I question the American people’s character, which I’ve never done before.

One thing you would possibly find intersting, is that I am becoming much more receptive and comfortable with traditional conservatism. While good Americans and traditional conservatives such as yourself, may find themselves drifting more toward the Democratic Party, I find a part of me that is sympathetic to traditional Republicans, to the point of identifying with them in certain ways. I find support for Trump so repugnant, I suppose I have become a Never Trumper regardless of who can stop this disaster.

 

[Quix0te]

He’s without a doubt a racist.

That has become the knee-jerk response of liberals to all conservative issues. Want border security? Racism. Support ICE? Racism. Want to end Affirmative Action? Racism.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

That has become the knee-jerk response of liberals to all conservative issues. Want border security? Racism. Support ICE? Racism. Want to end Affirmative Action? Racism.

One can support those positions without being racist. But racists also support those things. And some people just are not careful in their wording on these things. See thread on Laura I's comments on America changing on how comments sure sound racist.

 

[iu_a_att]

I wonder why these Antifa morons would be smashing Marine Corps recruiting station windows if they're only opposed to fascist groups and white supremacists?

I don't know. Could it be that they are angry young people with not very good impulse control? I certainly don't approve of such action.

These guys might screw up the Democrats chances to win the House, which by they way, I'm on record for supporting in my ultimate goal of purging the Republican party of Trumpism.

It is notable both that you bring up the incident and suggest that there might be some reason such an incident should be held against Democrats. You don't make the effort to advise people not to conflate such moronic behavior with Democrats. For example, you might have referenced Nancy Pelosi's statement on Antifa from last year

“Our democracy has no room for inciting violence or endangering the public, no matter the ideology of those who commit such acts. The violent actions of people calling themselves antifa in Berkeley this weekend deserve unequivocal condemnation, and the perpetrators should be arrested and prosecuted.

“In California, as across all of our great nation, we have deep reverence for the Constitutional right to peaceful dissent and free speech. Non-violence is fundamental to that right. Let us use this sad event to reaffirm that we must never fight hate with hate, and to remember the values of peace, openness and justice that represent the best of America.”
​

You might have contrasted that with Trump's approach following Charlottesville. It is Trump's "even-handedness" in equating murder by Nazi racists with property damage and scuffling by counter-protesting Nazis that was alarming even to mainstream Republicans. You might have said this is one of the reasons why Trump and Trumpism needs to be purged from the GOP.

 

[IUCrazy2]

I don't know. Could it be that they are angry young people with not very good impulse control? I certainly don't approve of such action.
It is notable both that you bring up the incident and suggest that there might be some reason such an incident should be held against Democrats. You don't make the effort to advise people not to conflate such moronic behavior with Democrats. For example, you might have referenced Nancy Pelosi's statement on Antifa from last year

“Our democracy has no room for inciting violence or endangering the public, no matter the ideology of those who commit such acts. The violent actions of people calling themselves antifa in Berkeley this weekend deserve unequivocal condemnation, and the perpetrators should be arrested and prosecuted.

“In California, as across all of our great nation, we have deep reverence for the Constitutional right to peaceful dissent and free speech. Non-violence is fundamental to that right. Let us use this sad event to reaffirm that we must never fight hate with hate, and to remember the values of peace, openness and justice that represent the best of America.”
​

You might have contrasted that with Trump's approach following Charlottesville. It is Trump's "even-handedness" in equating murder by Nazi racists with property damage and scuffling by counter-protesting Nazis that was alarming even to mainstream Republicans. You might have said this is one of the reasons why Trump and Trumpism needs to be purged from the GOP.

Says one of the people who has gone out of their way to defend Antifa over the past week....

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I don't know. Could it be that they are angry young people with not very good impulse control? I certainly don't approve of such action.
It is notable both that you bring up the incident and suggest that there might be some reason such an incident should be held against Democrats. You don't make the effort to advise people not to conflate such moronic behavior with Democrats. For example, you might have referenced Nancy Pelosi's statement on Antifa from last year

“Our democracy has no room for inciting violence or endangering the public, no matter the ideology of those who commit such acts. The violent actions of people calling themselves antifa in Berkeley this weekend deserve unequivocal condemnation, and the perpetrators should be arrested and prosecuted.

“In California, as across all of our great nation, we have deep reverence for the Constitutional right to peaceful dissent and free speech. Non-violence is fundamental to that right. Let us use this sad event to reaffirm that we must never fight hate with hate, and to remember the values of peace, openness and justice that represent the best of America.”
​

You might have contrasted that with Trump's approach following Charlottesville. It is Trump's "even-handedness" in equating murder by Nazi racists with property damage and scuffling by counter-protesting Nazis that was alarming even to mainstream Republicans. You might have said this is one of the reasons why Trump and Trumpism needs to be purged from the GOP.

Many Democrats have gone out of their way to defend Antifa violence because it was ostensibly aimed at white nationalists. Lots of defending here, in fact. Like it or not, these people are associated in the minds of many with Democrats. The white nationalists are associated in the minds of many with Republicans - and I like it not at all. Protesting white nationalists and even Trump is one thing and not going to hurt Democrats politically, but if Antifa starts attacking mainstream Republicans and Republican politicians and government organizations like ICE (and the military) too than it's going to hurt Democrats. I think the antiwar protests in the 2000s (which in reality were really anti-Bush anti-Republican protests) ultimately hurt Democrats at the ballot box. Mainstreet America just doesn't like that stuff.

Charlottesville is one of the reasons Trump and Trumpism needs to be purged from the Democratic party, by the way. White nationalist protests or whatever they call the stupid crap they do will likely hurt Republicans at the ballot box. If Democrats want to win, cheerleading Antifa antics isn't going to help with that.

 

[Hoosier_Hack]

I don't know. Could it be that they are angry young people with not very good impulse control? I certainly don't approve of such action.
It is notable both that you bring up the incident and suggest that there might be some reason such an incident should be held against Democrats. You don't make the effort to advise people not to conflate such moronic behavior with Democrats. For example, you might have referenced Nancy Pelosi's statement on Antifa from last year

“Our democracy has no room for inciting violence or endangering the public, no matter the ideology of those who commit such acts. The violent actions of people calling themselves antifa in Berkeley this weekend deserve unequivocal condemnation, and the perpetrators should be arrested and prosecuted.

“In California, as across all of our great nation, we have deep reverence for the Constitutional right to peaceful dissent and free speech. Non-violence is fundamental to that right. Let us use this sad event to reaffirm that we must never fight hate with hate, and to remember the values of peace, openness and justice that represent the best of America.”
​

You might have contrasted that with Trump's approach following Charlottesville. It is Trump's "even-handedness" in equating murder by Nazi racists with property damage and scuffling by counter-protesting Nazis that was alarming even to mainstream Republicans. You might have said this is one of the reasons why Trump and Trumpism needs to be purged from the GOP.

Or the public says actions speak louder than words....Maxine......if it walks like a duck...

 

[iu_a_att]

Many Democrats have gone out of their way to defend Antifa violence because it was ostensibly aimed at white nationalists. Lots of defending here, in fact. Like it or not, these people are associated in the minds of many with Democrats. The white nationalists are associated in the minds of many with Republicans - and I like it not at all. Protesting white nationalists and even Trump is one thing and not going to hurt Democrats politically, but if Antifa starts attacking mainstream Republicans and Republican politicians and government organizations like ICE (and the military) too than it's going to hurt Democrats. I think the antiwar protests in the 2000s (which in reality were really anti-Bush anti-Republican protests) ultimately hurt Democrats at the ballot box. Mainstreet America just doesn't like that stuff.

Charlottesville is one of the reasons Trump and Trumpism needs to be purged from the Democratic party, by the way. White nationalist protests or whatever they call the stupid crap they do will likely hurt Republicans at the ballot box. If Democrats want to win, cheerleading Antifa antics isn't going to help with that.

There has been ZERO cheering of antifa. There has been endless moral equivalence drawing between antifa and nazis. Once again:
unruly and uncivil demonstrations--bad
property damage--worse
property damage directed at government and military--worse still
all of the above plus advocating Nazism and KKK--worse still
Murder---worse yet
all the above plus advocating Nazism, White Supremacy and mass murder--worse yet.

Drawing distinctions between levels of offense is not cheerleading. Saying that Democrats are cheerleading libels Democrats AND helps Trumpism.

 

[Hoosier_Hack]

There has been ZERO cheering of antifa. There has been endless moral equivalence drawing between antifa and nazis. Once again:
unruly and uncivil demonstrations--bad
property damage--worse
property damage directed at government and military--worse still
all of the above plus advocating Nazism and KKK--worse still
Murder---worse yet
all the above plus advocating Nazism, White Supremacy and mass murder--worse yet.

Drawing distinctions between levels of offense is not cheerleading. Saying that Democrats are cheerleading libels Democrats AND helps Trumpism.

Disagree about the cheering. Anytime anything negative is brought up it either goes unresponsive or the typical yeah but....

This argument of moral equivalence is rediculous and akin to the argument of “which is a more pius act” in moral philosophy 101.

 

[iu_a_att]

Like it or not, these people are associated in the minds of many with Democrats.

Seems to me that people who want to purge the GOP of Trumpism ought to do their part by helping to discredit libels about Democrats.

 

[zeke4ahs]

He’s without a doubt a racist.

That has become the knee-jerk response of liberals to all conservative issues. Want border security? Racism. Support ICE? Racism. Want to end Affirmative Action? Racism.

And that’s the knee jerk reaction from conservatives making excuses for Trump’s racism. I’m not talking about any of those. I’m talking about Trump’s individual words and action over the large majority of his life. Shameful for you to make excuses for it.

 

[iu_a_att]

This argument of moral equivalence is rediculous and akin to the argument of “which is a more pius act” in moral philosophy 101.

You draw such distinction when, for example, you distinguish between an American soldier killing a member of Isis and a member of Isis killing an American soldier. I would think that you and I agree that the former killing is morally justified while the later is not. That determination is not simply some tribalism at work...it is also an assessment of the moral purpose behind the killing. The American soldier's purpose is more just than the Isis soldier. Motive matters.

 

[Quix0te]

And that’s the knee jerk reaction from conservatives making excuses for Trump’s racism. I’m not talking about any of those. I’m talking about Trump’s individual words and action over the large majority of his life. Shameful for you to make excuses for it.

What has Trump done that is racist? I'm not talking about the squealing hatred coming from the MSM, but rather what has Trump actually done or said that is overtly racist?

 

[hoot1]

Loosely organized groups such as Antifa and White Supremacists which don't look to either major party for direction are creations of both parties no longer dictating dogma, and the advanced use of internet technology whereby groups and individuals can easily organize rallies. With a website and cell phones organizing a riot or rally doesn't require working with a formal city, county, state, or national party organization.

These rallies and riots can many times illustrate a lack of good political judgement. Violence and destroying a Marine facility is a good example of poor political judgment. I say this because our military is one of the the few institutions which enjoy overwhelming public support. Consequently this Antifa riot is an example of a counterproductive political act. Back in the day when strong central control by both party organizations ruled supreme such a stupid use of property destruction would never have been sanctioned.

Unfortunately some citizens who identify with labels such as conservative and liberal, or take pride in being identified with Democrats or Republicans find themselves defending or not criticizing these loosely organized groups because of vague connections to their own label and party.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Seems to me that people who want to purge the GOP of Trumpism ought to do their part by helping to discredit libels about Democrats.

What libels?

 

[Lucy01]

Loosely organized groups such as Antifa and White Supremacists which don't look to either major party for direction are creations of both parties no longer dictating dogma, and the advanced use of internet technology whereby groups and individuals can easily organize rallies. With a website and cell phones organizing a riot or rally doesn't require working with a formal city, county, state, or national party organization.

These rallies and riots can many times illustrate a lack of good political judgement. Violence and destroying a Marine facility is a good example of poor political judgment. I say this because our military is one of the the few institutions which enjoy overwhelming public support. Consequently this Antifa riot is an example of a counterproductive political act. Back in the day when strong central control by both party organizations ruled supreme such a stupid use of property destruction would never have been sanctioned.

Unfortunately some citizens who identify with labels such as conservative and liberal, or take pride in being identified with Democrats or Republicans find themselves defending or not criticizing these loosely organized groups because of vague connections to their own label and party.

There’s a difference between protesting and harassing people.

 

[iu_a_att]

What libels?

The libels of accusing Democrats broadly or those on the forum of standing up for or supporting antifa.

 

[hoot1]

Heck, to some folks even an orderly and peaceful protest could seem like harassment when it protests something you hold dear. One of the costs we pay for freedom is having to tolerate acts and speech which offends us..

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

The libels of accusing Democrats broadly or those on the forum of standing up for or supporting antifa.

I would advise all Democrats not to defend or support Antifa. What else do you want from me? I already don't support them. I don't support the white nationalists either. I don't support any of the stupid crap that radical groups do.

 

[stollcpa]

Heck, to some folks even an orderly and peaceful protest could seem like harassment when it protests something you hold dear. One of the costs we pay for freedom is having to tolerate acts and speech which offends us..

Do we have to tolerate property damage and harassing people who are peacefully dining?

Any protest that is peaceful is fine with me. Destroying property and trying to run people out of public places isn’t okay. It’s not really hard.

 

[T.M.P.]

Many Democrats have gone out of their way to defend Antifa violence because it was ostensibly aimed at white nationalists. Lots of defending here, in fact. Like it or not, these people are associated in the minds of many with Democrats. The white nationalists are associated in the minds of many with Republicans - and I like it not at all. Protesting white nationalists and even Trump is one thing and not going to hurt Democrats politically, but if Antifa starts attacking mainstream Republicans and Republican politicians and government organizations like ICE (and the military) too than it's going to hurt Democrats. I think the antiwar protests in the 2000s (which in reality were really anti-Bush anti-Republican protests) ultimately hurt Democrats at the ballot box. Mainstreet America just doesn't like that stuff.

Charlottesville is one of the reasons Trump and Trumpism needs to be purged from the Democratic party, by the way. White nationalist protests or whatever they call the stupid crap they do will likely hurt Republicans at the ballot box. If Democrats want to win, cheerleading Antifa antics isn't going to help with that.

You guys have no clue who Antifa is. the American versions have no affiliation with the political minded Antifa groups of the mid 20th century. They barely have any affiliation with themselves.

It's loosely organized with no ordained leadership other than someone that wants to speak out and organize an event,. There's no secret handshake or club meetings or message boards or entry fees. Antifa is whoever shows up that day ready to fight nazis.

It's as dumb as the alt reich larping on a basement dwelling incel theme.

Antifa barely exists as an actual organization but it's become a broad brush term for any left lean protester and a created fear for the right wing to rally around and to use as a counter argument for Nazis. Which all of you have done just as your parrot training masters wanted.

Every post made by a conservative about Antifa on this board is laughable, and based purely on ignorance and fear.

You sound like a bunch of out of touch fearful old white guys.

I loved Goat's "antifa proper" comment. It was trap for each of you to learn who antifa proper is. Hint: there is no antifa proper. The biggest antifa movement in the US is the RW propaganda network.

*sigh*..

 

[iu_a_att]

What else do you want from me?

I answered you quite directly that I want you to stop libeling Democrats as supporters of antifa as you have done in this thread. Your approach reminds me of the white conservatives in the mid 1960s who were quick to advise the black community not to riot after the assassination of Martin Luther King. They said such riots would frighten white voters and aid the cause of racism by electing politicians hostile to civil rights. Yes, of course that is true. But what was needed at the time was not more lectures by white conservatives to the black community. Instead what was needed from them were lectures to other white conservatives not to let an unfortunate but understandable eruption of rage derail the commitment to civil rights progress.

 

[Stuffshot]

There has been ZERO cheering of antifa. There has been endless moral equivalence drawing between antifa and nazis. Once again:
unruly and uncivil demonstrations--bad
property damage--worse
property damage directed at government and military--worse still
all of the above plus advocating Nazism and KKK--worse still
Murder---worse yet
all the above plus advocating Nazism, White Supremacy and mass murder--worse yet.

Drawing distinctions between levels of offense is not cheerleading. Saying that Democrats are cheerleading libels Democrats AND helps Trumpism.

Here, let me try to clear up what you should have been saying as an attorney:

unruly and uncivil demonstrations--bad + probably illegal; specific statutes draw distinctions for specific actions and provide for specific penalties for those actions.

property damage--worse + almost certainly illegal; specific statutes draw distinctions for specific actions and provide for specific penalties for those actions.

property damage directed at government and military--worse still + almost certainly illegal; specific statutes draw distinctions for specific actions and provide for specific penalties for those actions.

all of the above plus advocating Nazism and KKK--worse still + almost certainly illegal; specific statutes draw distinctions for specific actions and provide for specific penalties for those actions (which might be enhanced under specific "hate crime" statutes).

Murder---worse yet and absolutely illegal; if done while advocating Nazism and KKKor anything else probably worse still + illegal; specific statutes draw distinctions for specific actions and provide for specific penalties for those actions (which might be enhanced under specific "hate crime" statutes).

all the above plus advocating Nazism, White Supremacy and mass murder--worse still + illegal; specific statutes draw distinctions for specific actions and provide for specific penalties for those actions (which might be enhanced under specific "hate crime" statutes)

Drawing distinctions between levels of offense is not cheerleading but is nonetheless virtually useless. In fact, many posts in this thread sound like somebody is saying "the criminals favored by my political beliefs are not as bad as the criminals favored by Trump's or Obama's or anyone else's political beliefs. That won't get us anywhere.

What will not work to make things better? Failure to remember and follow this:

Respect is respect.

Violence is violence.

Assault whether by fisticuffs or whistles is assault.

Murder whether by poison umbrellas or delivery trucks or firearms or anything else is murder.

Idiocy by anybody is still idiocy.

 

[hoot1]

Do we have to tolerate property damage and harassing people who are peacefully dining?

Any protest that is peaceful is fine with me. Destroying property and trying to run people out of public places isn’t okay. It’s not really hard.

I agree as per an earlier post in this thread whereby I stated...

Loosely organized groups such as Antifa and White Supremacists which don't look to either major party for direction are creations of both parties no longer dictating dogma, and the advanced use of internet technology whereby groups and individuals can easily organize rallies. With a website and cell phones organizing a riot or rally doesn't require working with a formal city, county, state, or national party organization.
These rallies and riots can many times illustrate a lack of good political judgement. Violence and destroying a Marine facility is a good example of poor political judgment. I say this because our military is one of the the few institutions which enjoy overwhelming public support. Consequently this Antifa riot is an example of a counterproductive political act. Back in the day when strong central control by both party organizations ruled supreme such a stupid use of property destruction would never have been sanctioned.

Unfortunately some citizens who identify with labels such as conservative and liberal, or take pride in being identified with Democrats or Republicans find themselves defending or not criticizing these loosely organized groups because of vague connections to their own label and party.​

 

[iu_a_att]

Do we have to tolerate property damage and harassing people who are peacefully dining?

Any protest that is peaceful is fine with me. Destroying property and trying to run people out of public places isn’t okay. It’s not really hard.

We should prosecute criminal behavior...it isn't hard. Nobody has argued otherwise.

 

[zeke4ahs]

What has Trump done that is racist? I'm not talking about the squealing hatred coming from the MSM, but rather what has Trump actually done or said that is overtly racist?

Do you just ignore this every time it comes up? Are you unable to research yourself? Or do you just enjoy having your head stuck completely in the sand? At least once a week someone puts a complete list up.
Starting with his court case for not renting to blacks, his full page ad against the Central Park 5, even though DNA had cleared them, he didn't want blacks counting his money, shit hole countries, rapists and drug dealers....everyone in Hollywood has known for years there are Apprentice tapes with him using the n word. I'll add another article, but it won't make a difference. Next week, you, Van or someone else will be asking for proof he's racist. And continue to ignore what's been right in front of your eyes for decades. He's not even trying to hide it anymore. He's always supported those very fine people in both sides. Why do you think David Duke, Nazis, and KKK know they have found their man?

 

[zeke4ahs]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/01/15/opinion/leonhardt-trump-racist.html Here’s a list, but this was 6 months ago, so prob at least a half dozen more to add to it by this point.