Should they stay or should they go with May deal or go with no deal ? Let the people decide--Brexit.
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The question doesn't match the graphs, and the graphs are mutually inconsistent.Should the UK remain in the EU, leave under May Deal or leave with No Deal? Let the people decide:
Well, sorry about the wording but the poll results illustrate a Condorcet Paradox: Remain beats May Deal; No Deal beats Remain; and May Deal beats No Deal. This makes a point that it is impossible to say what the people want in this case.
Should the UK remain in the EU, leave under May Deal or leave with No Deal? Let the people decide:
Brexit is the very definition of buyer’s remorse.
There’s some movement in GB to call for another referendum- on the theory that the voters were misled, and based their vote on lies. Essentially, the first referendum is null and void, because the pretenses under which voters voted was fraudulent.
It’ll be interesting to see where it goes from here. If I had to bet, the Brits will eventually find some way to reverse the decision. Reality has smacked them in their faces, and they really don’t like it.
Really hard to tell. I was listening to a BBC report the other day where they were interviewing old people. The olds just said that Britain was not Europe so they thought they shouldn't be part of the European Union.
The No Deal folks are still selling their jingoistic nonsense. Emotional BS sells just like in the States.
The Remainers is a logical choice. The May Deal may not even pass her own party in Parliment so lets wait and see. Both economic projections of the impact May's Plan and No Deal has been rejected by the Brexiters -- they expect an economic shrinkage of the GDP by about 5%.
The reasoning is that it doesn't take into account the abilities of the British's people's spirit to 'make deals' outside the EU so its hogwash. Stupid economists!
When a country is down to patriotic emotions, you know they are using the trump card, albeit their last resort.
The truth about a no-deal Brexit
https://www.economist.com/leaders/2018/11/24/the-truth-about-a-no-deal-brexit
They need another referendum or at least the people's vote on what maybe passed in Parliment. Unlike the Orange Buffoon, Brexit is permanent and cannot be allowed to go through based on some emotional whimsy of a bunch of old white or working class folks..
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Should the UK remain in the EU, leave under May Deal or leave with No Deal? Let the people decide:
What is May Deal for $200
Inspite of her horrendous election call, May is a tremendous wizard at holding on by a thread. I wouldn't bet against her until she actually loses.
As they say... a deal which everyone hates is probably the fairest deal in view of the stupid decision/outcome.
How is that different from any election? That's the nature of politics. Elections are about winning and losing.
But like the climate change/global warming deniers, who needs these stupid experts when the British spirit (and American ingenuity) is so strong.
Cause the problem, but we can also fix the problem we first caused to start with.
No nigun problema!!
The No Deal folks are still selling their jingoistic nonsense. Emotional BS sells just like in the States.
The Remainers is a logical choice. The May Deal may not even pass her own party in Parliment so lets wait and see. Both economic projections of the impact May's Plan and No Deal has been rejected by the Brexiters -- they expect an economic shrinkage of the GDP by about 5%.
The reasoning is that it doesn't take into account the abilities of the British's people's spirit to 'make deals' outside the EU so its hogwash. Stupid economists!
When a country is down to patriotic emotions, you know they are using the trump card, albeit their last resort.
The truth about a no-deal Brexit
https://www.economist.com/leaders/2018/11/24/the-truth-about-a-no-deal-brexit
They need another referendum or at least the people's vote on what maybe passed in Parliment. Unlike the Orange Buffoon, Brexit is permanent and cannot be allowed to go through based on some emotional whimsy of a bunch of old white or working class folks..
Corbyn deserves the most blame. If he did not strongly support Brexit, it doesn't pass.
I think it's basically the same urban/rural and educational divide we are witnessing globally, with a few regional caveats.
Frankly, the UK maybe better off with a Norway style arrangement. I don't think any of us have the expertise to say precisely one way or another. Already, they didn't use the euro and were not party to Schengen. They were not fully committed to the EU project imo.
There are parallels between the US and the States in so many ways. There was a weak, rudderless muted Dems, like Corbyn.
The EU had caved in into the Euro Skeptics by allowing the UK to keep its Pound. A massive compromise back then and yet the skeptics said that EU just takes.
Both US and Euro economies are undergoing or needing to undergo economic restructuring.
The main difference is that in the EU, through the generosity of their leaders/citizens, immigration eventually became an issue -- though on paper they do need it due to their ageing population. (http://www.silvereco.org/en/2018-ageing-report-europes-population-is-getting-older/)
Whereas in the States, the immigration problem is a trumped-up 'problem' and one of racial scapegoating.
Should the UK remain in the EU, leave under May Deal or leave with No Deal? Let the people decide:
A survey of only 1,000? That's far too small for me to give it any validity.
The No Deal folks are still selling their jingoistic nonsense. Emotional BS sells just like in the States.
The Remainers is a logical choice. The May Deal may not even pass her own party in Parliment so lets wait and see. Both economic projections of the impact May's Plan and No Deal has been rejected by the Brexiters -- they expect an economic shrinkage of the GDP by about 5%.
The reasoning is that it doesn't take into account the abilities of the British's people's spirit to 'make deals' outside the EU so its hogwash. Stupid economists!
When a country is down to patriotic emotions, you know they are using the trump card, albeit their last resort.
The truth about a no-deal Brexit
https://www.economist.com/leaders/2018/11/24/the-truth-about-a-no-deal-brexit
They need another referendum or at least the people's vote on what maybe passed in Parliment. Unlike the Orange Buffoon, Brexit is permanent and cannot be allowed to go through based on some emotional whimsy of a bunch of old white or working class folks..
The European Union will be part of an epic collapse at some point. The Brits have no desire to be part of it.
Exactly. JDB keeps pushing this idea.
Maybe he knows something we don't - European Rapture.
It's not some novel concept. A group of non-unified economies with steep differences and a single monetary policy? There is no practical way it is going to work long term. Greeks are striking again because of austerity, EU policies have driven Italians to Nationalism again, etc. while Germany continues to control every decision with its economic weight.
It's not likely to happen -- if the EU economy implodes, then the global economies including the US and China would also be in trouble too.
If it implodes due to shrinking membership, they only have to look at the clusterfeck called Brexit to show them that it's in their interest to stay together.
Keeping a community of nearly 27 members; different cultures/attitudinal approaches, economic development levels from 1st worlds (like France, Germany, Sweden) to 3rd world economies (like Greece and Italy) political spectrum (from communist to fascist) -- isnt easy.
I think they are doing better than the US -- one country, one language, same passport and one culture and yet... look how dysfunctional DC is. Almost daily mass shooting and yet no solutions for decades as an example.
not sure i agree.
those who wish to remain were not given a "remain" option in the "May Deal vs No Deal" question.
looks like those who originally voted to "remain", regardless of which deal was the other option, prefer no deal to May deal when "remain" is no longer an option.
they are not necessarily mutually exclusive or a paradox as i see it, but i'm sleep deprived.
since i'm not up on this, what are the Cliff Notes versions of each deal?
or at least the basic differences between the May deal and no deal?
The most ridiculous case of doublethink with Brexit was Theresa May simultaneously explaining to the rest of the UK how oppressive the European Union is and how great we can be outside of the Union --- while the same time, she spoke to the Scots about how great Union within GB and how much weaker they would be outside of the Union; and how they would be insane to separate from their main trading partner since logistically it wouldn’t make sense to forge stronger trade partnerships further afield.
Quite the parallel universes.
Brexit is the clusterfak of all clusterfaks (and this includes the Orange Abomination.)
Meanwhile, the Pound's heading south.
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This is turning into the huge mess we all knew it would be.
https://www.vox.com/2018/12/10/18134242/theresa-may-brexit-deal-postpone-vote
https://www.vox.com/2018/12/10/18134242/theresa-may-brexit-deal-postpone-vote
Yeap. She would lose by maybe a 100 votes and possibly force a 'no-confidence' vote and a GE. And more mayhem.
I'm not sure she'd lose a no-confidence vote. I don't know there are enough conservatives/DUPs willing to risk the suddenly very real possibility of Corbyn presiding over Brexit.
Boris will step up.
I really dont know what Corbyn is playing at. Speaking double talk about Brexit every time. I am not sure he would win the GE unless Labour changes its leadership which is unlikely considering how Corbyn has his political structures in place.
Conservative rebels renew push to oust May as she tries to save deal from collapse
Unconfirmed reports suggest there are now a sufficient number of letters calling on her to resign to trigger a no-confidence vote
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ive-rebels-resignation-collapse-a8678611.html
Cutting off the nose to spite the face.
Unconfirmed reports suggest there are now a sufficient number of letters calling on her to resign to trigger a no-confidence vote
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ive-rebels-resignation-collapse-a8678611.html
Cutting off the nose to spite the face.
You did the commentator's curse:
Theresa May to face leadership challenge
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46535739
May is done, it's just a matter of time until she is out. Brexit is the disaster everybody knew it was going to be. Even if they reverse it, they will still feel the damage of all the lost businesses that have moved to Europe.
At some point the UK is going to have to realize that carry nearly as much weight as they think they do. This whole Brexit fiasco has weakened their standing even more.
At this point I don't see hope they avoid another referendum which will be voted down easily.
At some point the UK is going to have to realize that carry nearly as much weight as they think they do. This whole Brexit fiasco has weakened their standing even more.
At this point I don't see hope they avoid another referendum which will be voted down easily.
The Leavers are still spouting the pre-referendum crap. So don't be too confident that the Brits will do the right thing.
At some point politicians need to be held accountable to the lies they spout or most democracies will die a slow death. And the alternative isn't pretty, having lived or worked in them.
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Brother, agree 1,000%.
THIS is what scares me about where we are moving forward. If you are simply allowed to make up your own reality and roll around in it like pigs in mud/chit, it becomes easier to forget that we’re all accountable to each other in this country. We are the vanguards of this great political experiment of 250 years. And right now, we’re losing our way.
And in this environment, it becomes easier to take more and more undemocractic actions- because OUR version of reality is the best version of reality. And screw what it takes to impose that version- because the other side is evil.
This is why I am so harsh towards many republican legislator’s actions & the party platform & ingrained beliefs.
Things like voter suppression (limiting early voting, allowing some forms of voter ID’s but not others) & extreme gerrymandering/taking away incoming power from the Dems are way out of bounds. And those have been exclusively republican actions for a while now. Ironically, the Dems laid groundwork for this
I am equal opportunity when it comes to the Dems doing nefarious chit. It’s just that I don’t see the Dems engaging in this type of stuff. Like Rock said earlier, one party chose the wrong side on MANY issues, and they’re doubling down. And to sg’a point, many of these things are undemocratic.
To be fair- I’ll point out one Dem Action that should be reversed and ridiculed- the gerrymandering in Maryland. It’s horribly undemocratic & embarrassing, because in many ways it showed the GOP just how far they could take it.
The good news is that the country is starting to take notice. The last election was absolutely a blue wave- look no further than Orange County, CA. The birthplace of Reaganism rejected the current version of the Republican Party. And the Dems won by between 8-9 million votes- in an environment in which the gerrymandered districts should’ve yielded more than 40 seats.
I can only hope this trend continues until the orange one is excised from the party. The voters have to speak, and speak loudly.
The problem is that I just don’t know what the party looks like Post Trump. He’s exposed many of the worst elements of pub leaning voters- and they’ve completely taken over the party. Their “deplorable” views are now party orthodoxy.
It’s hard to come back from that place.
If the party tells the “deplorables” to go to hell, they can’t ever win a national election. And in everywhere but the Deep South and a few very white pockets of the country (like Steve King’s District in Iowa), they won’t be able to win many state/local elections either.
Side rant- this is why I’m starting to think that Beto O’rourke could be the best option for not only the Dems, but the country.
We’re going to need a healer/uniter in Chief post Trump. If you’ve ever heard him speak, you’ll soon realize he’s exactly what we need. And I’m not saying these can’t be others- but right now he appears to be the best shot for that.
And if a pub is going to be that person- it’s going to have to be someone that is on record as rejecting Trumpism. Like John Kasich, for example.
You did the commentator's curse:
Theresa May to face leadership challenge
I meant in the House itself. I can totally see May losing her leadership position in the party, but I don't think the Conservatives or DUP would risk taking down the government.
Clearly a "better the devil you know" moment. With the Brexit timeline fast approaching, I don't know how switching horses would possibly help.
Theresa May no-confidence vote result: What it means for Brexit
https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...it-deal-win-what-next-eu-summit-a8680741.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...it-deal-win-what-next-eu-summit-a8680741.html
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Brexit: EU says no to May on renegotiating deal
Groundhog date till the date of leaving.
I imagine most companies will start triggering or have already started their emergency plans because they can’t wait until the last second.
I imagine most companies will start triggering or have already started their emergency plans because they can’t wait until the last second.
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