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Should health care premiums increase for the unvaccinated?...

A friend of mine and I were discussing over the weekend and then I saw this article.


I think I'm good with increased rates. Thoughts?


how bout you get vaxed, and you're instantly eligible for Medicare regardless of age.
 
but they aren’t effective.
None are 100% effective.
Almost none are 0% effective.

A lot more could be done to get N95 and KN95 masks more widely available, and these are at the higher end of the effectiveness scale. Still not 100%, but closer.

I work in a science lab and masks are required for all meetings. A huge difference from 18 months ago is that >50% of the scientists have KN95s on. I wish this were the case elsewhere, but it isn't.
 
None are 100% effective.
Almost none are 0% effective.

A lot more could be done to get N95 and KN95 masks more widely available, and these are at the higher end of the effectiveness scale. Still not 100%, but closer.

I work in a science lab and masks are required for all meetings. A huge difference from 18 months ago is that >50% of the scientists have KN95s on. I wish this were the case elsewhere, but it isn't.
The masks serve the purpose of reminding me the virus still lurks. Upon returning home and removing my mask I am thus reminded to wash my hands. Hand washing is something we all should have been doing more of, with or without the Covid virus.

One of my fond hopes was the Covid pandemic would teach us to be more careful about coming to work with colds, the flu, and other transmittable diseases. People coming to work sick costs billions of dollars every year.

Instead of learning some important lessons because of the pandemic, it is becoming increasingly obvious to me that the politics which divides us permeates many aspects of our everyday lives.
 
On mask effectiveness- isn’t the lack of cold, flu, and other seasonal bugs proof is some positive effect? I’ve never thought they were bullet proof, but it seems to make sense that they do help, at least some.
 


I think Florida has the highest vaccination rate of any Trump state. Obviously elderly were targeted and it's a state with a lot of people in those age groups, but that doesn't happen by accident.
Actually, Iowa and Nebraska are both higher at 22 and 23, but FL does squeak into the Top 25 at #24.

Those are the only 3 Trump states in the Top 25, but Biden states with GOP Govs (Vermont, Mass, and Maryland) occupy # 1, 2, and 6 respectively...

IL at # 26 is one of only 4 Biden states outside the Top 25. The 3 lowest Biden states are AZ at #31, NV at #34, and GA at# 45. Coincidentally those are also the 3 closest states where Biden beat Trump by the smallest margin.

Not sure how anyone can take the tweet seriously, given the anti-vax/anti Fauci merch DeSantis is selling- "Don't Fauci My Florida" shirts, mugs, etc...

The real problem with DeSantis is his political posturing, like banning cruise ship companies from asking the vax status of passengers or issuing an executive order banning mask mandates statewide, and threatening to cut off funds for school districts that institute mask mandates...

On Morning Joe this morning, Scarborough who has kids attending school in FL pointed out how ridiculous a statewide ban is and basically accused DeSantis of implementing the same type of socialist edict he rails against. There are 67 counties in FL, and Scarborough pointed out the difference between a county like Holmes in the Panhandle and Broward and trying to apply a one size fits all approach...

If local school boards and parents want to implement a mask mandate based on the conditions in their county they should be able to do so. DeSantis is great at speaking to the interests of his political constituency, but there are parents in FL that want mask mandates, and if so they should be able in conjunction with their school board to institute them without losing funding.

As of this morning, 4 school districts in FL have said they will go ahead with mask mandates in spite of DeSantis's threat to cut off funds. Again it should be a local issue.

DeSantis got applause from the lackeys at his speech yesterday when he claimed to "defend the rights of FL parents", but he doesn't speak for ALL FL parents, despite however much Political posturing he chooses to engage in. And he's certainly not following the advice of the medical professionals within the state who widely support masks...



 
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My employer is in Florida, so rules have to be massaged to avoid the eye of Sauron (Death-Santis).

Case in point, we have vaccination status stickers on all of our ID cards. But DeathSantis forbids any company to demand people to declare their vaccination status. So... my employer asked us to volunteer whether we have been fully vaccinated or not.

If you don't volunteer that information, you get a sticker saying "unverfied" rather than "unvaccinated". Masks are required for the unverfied, at all times. Regular PCR testing too. Travel bans too.

If you do volunteer that information, you get a sticker saying "vaccinated"and avoid those restrictions.

So Sauron's eye is diverted. Nobody's required to volunteer that information.

Smart!

And yet...

E7-UWoiVIAEoCf5
 
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Nice job of cutting off the graph to make Florida look like it's at the bottom, instead of in the middle

LOL, so now you don't even know how many states we have? Of course there weren't 50 states on the list, Mr. Sanders.
 
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LOL, so now you don't even know how many states we have? Of course there weren't 50 states on the list, Mr. Sanders.
The full graph shows 50 states, the cut-off graph shows 27. To make it look great, you showed the top 27.

This isn't complicated.
 
The full graph shows 50 states, the cut-off graph shows 27. To make it look great, you showed the top 27.

This isn't complicated.

Let me dumb it down for you...

The purpose of cutting off the graph wasn't to suggest or imply that Florida is the best. It was to demonstrate how many states are worse, which is particularly surprising given the age of Floridians (5th oldest state in the Union).

It's not rocket science. But, stupid partisan fools can't get out of their own way with stupid comments (e.g., Deathsantis)
 
As of this morning, 4 school districts in FL have said they will go ahead with mask mandates in spite of DeSantis's threat to cut off funds. Again it should be a local issue.

I have no idea how FL funds its schools, but I doubt he can actually make good on his threat.
 
Actually, Iowa and Nebraska are both higher at 22 and 23, but FL does squeak into the Top 25 at #24.

Those are the only 3 Trump states in the Top 25, but Biden states with GOP Govs (Vermont, Mass, and Maryland) occupy # 1, 2, and 6 respectively...

IL at # 26 is one of only 4 Biden states outside the Top 25. The 3 lowest Biden states are AZ at #31, NV at #34, and GA at# 45. Coincidentally those are also the 3 closest states where Biden beat Trump by the smallest margin.

Not sure how anyone can take the tweet seriously, given the anti-vax/anti Fauci merch DeSantis is selling- "Don't Fauci My Florida" shirts, mugs, etc...

The real problem with DeSantis is his political posturing, like banning cruise ship companies from asking the vax status of passengers or issuing an executive order banning mask mandates statewide, and threatening to cut off funds for school districts that institute mask mandates...

On Morning Joe this morning, Scarborough who has kids attending school in FL pointed out how ridiculous a statewide ban is and basically accused DeSantis of implementing the same type of socialist edict he rails against. There are 67 counties in FL, and Scarborough pointed out the difference between a county like Holmes in the Panhandle and Broward and trying to apply a one size fits all approach...

If local school boards and parents want to implement a mask mandate based on the conditions in their county they should be able to do so. DeSantis is great at speaking to the interests of his political constituency, but there are parents in FL that want mask mandates, and if so they should be able in conjunction with their school board to institute them without losing funding.

As of this morning, 4 school districts in FL have said they will go ahead with mask mandates in spite of DeSantis's threat to cut off funds. Again it should be a local issue.

DeSantis got applause from the lackeys at his speech yesterday when he claimed to "defend the rights of FL parents", but he doesn't speak for ALL FL parents, despite however much Political posturing he chooses to engage in. And he's certainly not following the advice of the medical professionals within the state who widely support masks...





A total of 7 children under 16 have died from Covid-19 in Florida throughout the pandemic. Obviously we don't want any children to get a virus, but who convinced this girl that her and her brother are at serious risk or mandating masks would help significantly?

The best thing that parents can do to protect children from Covid-19 is get vaccinated themselves.
 


A total of 7 children under 16 have died from Covid-19 in Florida throughout the pandemic. Obviously we don't want any children to get a virus, but who convinced this girl that her and her brother are at serious risk or mandating masks would help significantly?

The best thing that parents can do to protect children from Covid-19 is get vaccinated themselves.
I’m not an alarmist on this stuff, but I am paying attention to articles coming from southern states about Delta and children. Mississippi, Tennessee and Florida, from what I’ve read, are seeing increased hospitalizations and even some deaths in kids. This is worth watching as we send these unvaccinated kids back to school.
 


A total of 7 children under 16 have died from Covid-19 in Florida throughout the pandemic. Obviously we don't want any children to get a virus, but who convinced this girl that her and her brother are at serious risk or mandating masks would help significantly?

The best thing that parents can do to protect children from Covid-19 is get vaccinated themselves.
Fla was always going to be a challenge this summer. DeSantis did an amazingly sensible job in getting old, vulnerable people vaccinated. As to Covid fla faces challenges most states can't fathom: a massive influx of tourists and kids all summer long vacationing. People who travel are less cautious. Kids in their early 20s blowing up the bars from south beach to delray from literally all over the country packed in like sardines. Old people packing 5th ave in Naples. On and on. No one is visiting Indiana, missouri etc. it was inevitable fla would see a big spike. I suspect it will relent as everyone around the country goes back to school and vacations end. DeSantis wants bars and businesses full for the economy this summer.

DeSantis has Covid challenges others don't. And he's keeping businesses open and the economy going. His fight on masks is stupid. Every bit as stupid as trump's and may bring him the same fate as trump. Really stupid on his part. We'll see

Get vaccinated and get on with it. The people in this thread bitching about DeSantis would live the remainder of their lives in a bubble if fauci recommended it. Health directors don't set policy, thankfully

Get vaccinated. Tell everyone to get vaccinated. And get on with it.

As for insurance it's already happening. Cos were waiving coinsurance charged for Covid treatment. That has now lapsed. You get Covid you pay your portion. I guarantee in the way smokers pay more for insurance (up to 50 percent per aca) unvaccinated will to, which is a good incentive. Every little bit....
 
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Biden came into office saying Trump miss handled the pandemic, what’s Biden done the numbers are back up with no end in sight.
 
but they aren’t effective.

He said they aren't "very" effective, which is somewhat different. And he specified many of the masks worn (especially cloth masks). Most homemade cloth masks aren't going to do very much at all. But effectiveness goes up from there. A surgical mask with the loops knotted and corners tucked is pretty effective (see below).


But it's all a matter of percentages. Masks help a little, distancing helps a little, being outdoors helps a lot, vaccinations help a lot. I think masks are like bulletproof vests worn by many police. No one with a brain is going to be willingly shot just because they are wearing a vest. But if all other precautions fail, a vest provides a chance of protection over not having it. The problem with masks is that some people get a false sense of security that most people are smart enough not to assume with a vest.

FWIW, I wear a surgical mask mostly when required. But if I have to be somewhere more crowded, I wear KN95 masks. They provide just that little bit more protection but can be annoying to wear for longer periods.
 
He said they aren't "very" effective, which is somewhat different. And he specified many of the masks worn (especially cloth masks). Most homemade cloth masks aren't going to do very much at all. But effectiveness goes up from there. A surgical mask with the loops knotted and corners tucked is pretty effective (see below).


But it's all a matter of percentages. Masks help a little, distancing helps a little, being outdoors helps a lot, vaccinations help a lot. I think masks are like bulletproof vests worn by many police. No one with a brain is going to be willingly shot just because they are wearing a vest. But if all other precautions fail, a vest provides a chance of protection over not having it. The problem with masks is that some people get a false sense of security that most people are smart enough not to assume with a vest.

FWIW, I wear a surgical mask mostly when required. But if I have to be somewhere more crowded, I wear KN95 masks. They provide just that little bit more protection but can be annoying to wear for longer periods.
You’re that guy that’s in his car by himself wearing a mask!
 
When I was forced to let my insurnace/ tax contribution $$ be spent to provide gender reassignment surgery to inmates, AGAINST my will, your ability to increase my buy in cost totally went out the window. Done. Caput, outta here. ME being unvacinatted is YOUR cost for being a member of a civilized society.
 
My employer is in Florida, so rules have to be massaged to avoid the eye of Sauron (Death-Santis).

Case in point, we have vaccination status stickers on all of our ID cards. But DeathSantis forbids any company to demand people to declare their vaccination status. So... my employer asked us to volunteer whether we have been fully vaccinated or not.

If you don't volunteer that information, you get a sticker saying "unverfied" rather than "unvaccinated". Masks are required for the unverfied, at all times. Regular PCR testing too. Travel bans too.

If you do volunteer that information, you get a sticker saying "vaccinated"and avoid those restrictions.

So Sauron's eye is diverted. Nobody's required to volunteer that information.

Smart!

 
Talking about Florida, in 2021 it's deaths per 100,000 is not so great. In fact there is a decidedly red shift in the worst performing states for 2021.

 
Talking about Florida, in 2021 it's deaths per 100,000 is not so great. In fact there is a decidedly red shift in the worst performing states for 2021.


Alright, since you are deciding to play a politics game... let's give it a few months Marv and revisit in Spring 2022, shall we?

Red states were hit much harder, likely because of lower vaccination rates with Delta, but also because of timing of the spread. The "Blues" are just peaking right now, with NYC now reporting >250,000 daily infections. You've literally admitted to a seasonality effect between latitudes. At least you'll get the benefit of a weaker dominant strain as it relates to severity.

Not only that, but Florida has a massive elderly population, the second highest over 65+.


V0dgE5L.png
 
A friend of mine and I were discussing over the weekend and then I saw this article.


I think I'm good with increased rates. Thoughts?
I guess as long as they increase for the obese and very overweight folks who load their carts with junk food.
 
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Alright, since you are deciding to play a politics game... let's give it a few months Marv and revisit in Spring 2022, shall we?

Red states were hit much harder, likely because of lower vaccination rates with Delta, but also because of timing of the spread. The "Blues" are just peaking right now, with NYC now reporting >250,000 daily infections. You've literally admitted to a seasonality effect between latitudes. At least you'll get the benefit of a weaker dominant strain as it relates to severity.

Not only that, but Florida has a massive elderly population, the second highest over 65+.


V0dgE5L.png
Vaccines should make all the difference. Even with Omi.
 
On top of that, now we have actual treatments (monoclonal, antivirals, etc.) that are attainable.

So what's your point? Seems like you are trying to compare apples to oranges.
My point is there is nothing wrong with letting people try to protect themselves. It was desantis that told cruise ships they have no right to try and protect their people and became a cult hero of the Babylon bee.

There is a national shortage of monoclonal antibodies right now, but it is totally wrong for anyone anywhere to try and slow the spread.
 


A total of 7 children under 16 have died from Covid-19 in Florida throughout the pandemic. Obviously we don't want any children to get a virus, but who convinced this girl that her and her brother are at serious risk or mandating masks would help significantly?

The best thing that parents can do to protect children from Covid-19 is get vaccinated themselves.
Can you imagine the threats coming in to that child and her parents from the trumpsheep?

Yikes.
 
My point is there is nothing wrong with letting people try to protect themselves. It was desantis that told cruise ships they have no right to try and protect their people and became a cult hero of the Babylon bee.

There is a national shortage of monoclonal antibodies right now, but it is totally wrong for anyone anywhere to try and slow the spread.

Don't look now

 
Yep, omicron infects so many it is a problem. Look at Florida's rates today, if hospitalizations is lag 10 days as tradition has, their hospitals will be filled.

Which goes to my continual point, local people on the ground should be able to make policies that fit that community. If the virus is not bad, business is normal, if thing's go south back to masks and distancing. Nationwide or statewide orders make no sense. That means both orders to mask or not to.
 
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I guess as long as they increase for the obese and very overweight folks who load their carts with junk food.

They do. Or at least it prevents them from getting a discount for many insurers.

My firm gives discounts for low BMI, low BP, low cholesterol, and an active health club membership. I can save up to $2400 per year.
 
The insurance business model, in general, should change, never mind for the Covid uncleans.

Why should we healthy lifestyle folks be paying for people who want to over-drink, over-eat and in this case not believe in science by being put into the same bucket/pool of payers?

Personalise insurance and put people into their relative pools/buckets. Why should I make all the effort and then have others pull the curve down (and increase the premiums) for me?
They are already providing incentives with various companies to incentivise a healthy lifestyle here. I can see it going towards a more personalised approach in terms of health insurance.
 
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Personalise insurance and put people into their relative pools/buckets. Why should I make all the effort and then have others pull the curve down (and increase the premiums) for me?

That defeats the purpose of insurance. Insurance is supposed to spread total risk across the entire pool. The fairest pool is one that includes everyone. Yes, some are winners and some are losers. "Personalized" insurance is a contradiction in terms. Might as well do away with insurance altogether and have everyone self insure.
 
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The insurance business model, in general, should change, never mind for the Covid uncleans.

Why should we healthy lifestyle folks be paying for people who want to over-drink, over-eat and in this case not believe in science by being put into the same bucket/pool of payers?

Personalise insurance and put people into their relative pools/buckets. Why should I make all the effort and then have others pull the curve down (and increase the premiums) for me?
They are already providing incentives with various companies to incentivise a healthy lifestyle here. I can see it going towards a more personalised approach in terms of health insurance.
Why should it pay for women likely to become pregnant? It only happened by osmosis once. Why should people that can pay for their own insurance pay higher rates so people that can't afford it get it for free? Your buddy Obama created that one. Typical liberal thinking .
 
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That defeats the purpose of insurance. Insurance is supposed to spread total risk across the entire pool. The fairest pool is one that includes everyone. Yes, some are winners and some are losers. "Personalized" insurance is a contradiction in terms. Might as well do away with insurance altogether and have everyone self insure.

It's already happening with group policies with healthy discounts and various deductible levels. Car insurance companies can track driving mileage and patterns to customize premiums.

I agree there is a basic insurance premium level we all must pay to spread out costs, but private insurance is moving towards incentives to reduce premiums.
 
That defeats the purpose of insurance. Insurance is supposed to spread total risk across the entire pool. The fairest pool is one that includes everyone. Yes, some are winners and some are losers. "Personalized" insurance is a contradiction in terms. Might as well do away with insurance altogether and have everyone self insure.
I am not suggesting that there are one plan per single person but different buckets. After all, what's the difference between someone choosing not to vaccinate and a person who chooses to eat 2 Macs and extra large fries every day of their lives? I am sure their actuarists can figure out the various buckets.

Besides its as good a behaviour modification tool as any; I get disincentivised for certain choices and incentivised for others. Personal responsibility.

Health insurance was used as a tool to protect you from the 'unlikely events --- to now trying to protect you who what seems like a lifestyle shift to inevitable events.

It's no longer a sustainable model.
 
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