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Sex and Genghis Khan

TheOriginalHappyGoat

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Oct 4, 2010
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@iuwclurker Taking this off thread to address your curiosity without further mucking up the Ukraine thread.

We can learn a lot about how people are related to each other generally through virtually any genetic comparison. If a group of people all share the same discrete set of single nucleotide polymorphisms (individual changes in a single nucleotide at a specific point in the genome), then they are very likely closely related. However, for purposes of genealogy, this can easily get messy, because 45 of our 46 autosomes can pass from either the mother or the father, and can also switch genes back and forth during meiosis, in a process called recombination. This quickly can lead to genetic drift, further blurring genealogical lines. There are two special cases, however, that are useful for genealogy: Y-chromosomes and mitochondria.

Y-chromosomes are only passed down the male line, because they can only be supplied by a sperm. Mitochondria are only passed down the female line, because they don't exist in sperm, and therefore can only come from an egg. So if two people have identical mitochondria, they have a recent common female-line ancestor, and if two men have identical Y-chromosomes, they have a recent common male-line ancestor. With the Y-chromosome, we can only directly test males, but we can also count how many sisters and half-sisters those males have by the same father, and, at any rate, since people tend to have male and female offspring at roughly the same rate, if x% of the male population shares a common male-line ancestor, it's likely that very close to x% of the female population consists of sisters and paternal half-sisters and various forms of cousins who also share that same ancestor (that is to say, females whose father also had the same Y-chromosome).

Long story short, what the study you didn't get to fully read about actually said was that, among people living in the former Mongol territories, about 8% of males (and therefore, most likely, about 8% of the entire population) have a relatively recent male-line common ancestor. An argument has been put forward for the case that said ancestor is Genghis Khan himself, although without his remains or the remains of someone verifiably known to be related to him in the direct male line, we can't say for certain that it was actually him.
 
Thanks. Come to think of it, there’s a much simpler answer to why one would test for a procreative male as opposed to a female ancestor. A woman is likely to pass on her mitochondria at most 10 to 20 births in her lifetime. A man might be able to inseminate 3-4 women a hour or maybe more (by natural means).
 
Thanks. Come to think of it, there’s a much simpler answer to why one would test for a procreative male as opposed to a female ancestor. A woman is likely to pass on her mitochondria at most 10 to 20 births in her lifetime. A man might be able to inseminate 3-4 women a hour or maybe more (by natural means).
It is true that males are less limited in this way. One reason researchers posit that Genghis Khan is the actual ancestor in question is that historical records suggest he and his many sons were quite prolific in this respect. If his grandsons and great-grandsons and so forth continued the tradition of impregnating many women, it wouldn't be outrageous to think they could have spread that Y-chromosome this far in the course of a few centuries.
 
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It is true that males are less limited in this way. One reason researchers posit that Genghis Khan is the actual ancestor in question is that historical records suggest he and his many sons were quite prolific in this respect. If his grandsons and great-grandsons and so forth continued the tradition of impregnating many women, it wouldn't be outrageous to think they could have spread that Y-chromosome this far in the course of a few centuries.
I've found sex with four women in an hour is my limit . . .
 
@iuwclurker Taking this off thread to address your curiosity without further mucking up the Ukraine thread.

We can learn a lot about how people are related to each other generally through virtually any genetic comparison. If a group of people all share the same discrete set of single nucleotide polymorphisms (individual changes in a single nucleotide at a specific point in the genome), then they are very likely closely related. However, for purposes of genealogy, this can easily get messy, because 45 of our 46 autosomes can pass from either the mother or the father, and can also switch genes back and forth during meiosis, in a process called recombination. This quickly can lead to genetic drift, further blurring genealogical lines. There are two special cases, however, that are useful for genealogy: Y-chromosomes and mitochondria.

Y-chromosomes are only passed down the male line, because they can only be supplied by a sperm. Mitochondria are only passed down the female line, because they don't exist in sperm, and therefore can only come from an egg. So if two people have identical mitochondria, they have a recent common female-line ancestor, and if two men have identical Y-chromosomes, they have a recent common male-line ancestor. With the Y-chromosome, we can only directly test males, but we can also count how many sisters and half-sisters those males have by the same father, and, at any rate, since people tend to have male and female offspring at roughly the same rate, if x% of the male population shares a common male-line ancestor, it's likely that very close to x% of the female population consists of sisters and paternal half-sisters and various forms of cousins who also share that same ancestor (that is to say, females whose father also had the same Y-chromosome).

Long story short, what the study you didn't get to fully read about actually said was that, among people living in the former Mongol territories, about 8% of males (and therefore, most likely, about 8% of the entire population) have a relatively recent male-line common ancestor. An argument has been put forward for the case that said ancestor is Genghis Khan himself, although without his remains or the remains of someone verifiably known to be related to him in the direct male line, we can't say for certain that it was actually him.
Khan got around. So did Charlemagne. I would argue because Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines, women of all kinds of different lineages themselves according to 1 Kings 11:3 there are a ton of people who are related to him as well.
Someone once asked a preacher who Solomon had so many wives and concubines. The preacher said, "He wanted to make sure he could come home at night and find at least one of them in a good mood".
 
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Khan got around. So did Charlemagne. I would argue because Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines, women of all kinds of different lineages themselves according to 1 Kings 11:3 there are a ton of people who are related to him as well.
Someone once asked a preacher who Solomon had so many wives and concubines. The preacher said, "He wanted to make sure he could come home at night and find at least one of them in a good mood".
dumb
 
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