Several reasons why we'll struggle if and when we decide to hire another coach...

[76-1]

1) This: https://iuhoosiers.com/news/2018/10...dent-athlete-bill-of-rights.aspx?path=general

While most of that should be celebrated and used as a recruiting tool, line # 8 will severely limit not only the Head Coaching candidates that would be interested in coming here but also the staff candidates that would come here...

Why?? - Because (for instance) after thatcjoke of a performance by most of the OL yesterday most high level coaches would have our wanna be bullfighters taking turns as QB/RB/TE tackling dummies for our D to practice ther technique on (they sure need the work) while telling them that's the only way they can help the Team and perhaps they'll learn what it feels like to not have anyone blocking for them (at minimum)...

In our case we'll pat them on the butt and say you'll get em next time (they won't)...

No one worth their salt will allow themselves to be handcuffed by #8...,which is basically the ghost of Kevin Wilson rule...

2) we'll never pay what it takes across the board HC & Staff to get the kind of name it would take to turn things around rapidly... Never have, never will...

3) if we pull the trigger this year we'll be competing with multiple other programs who aren't saddled with the above...

We're going to have to be Really creative whike thinking way outside the box to clean up this mess... Perhaps amending #8 to some small degree to reflect the reality of coaching..., as a start...

 

[hoosierfan13]

My god Zoomers are soft

 

[TMFT]

Maybe we can find coaches that will run kids til they puke in July workouts and withhold water too.

Trying to literally inflict pain on kids to teach them a lesson is not high level coaching in any modern context.

I’ll go with you as far as a coach should be able to tell a kid he’s playing soft and he needs to but up and go out there and protect his QB/RBs. If the bill of rights prevents that, then I disagree with it. But mentally and/or physically abusing kids was wrong when Bear Bryant and RMK were doing it and it’s wrong now.

Bad take

 

[76-1]

Maybe we can find coaches that will run kids til they puke in July workouts and withhold water too.

Trying to literally inflict pain on kids to teach them a lesson is not high level coaching in any modern context.

I’ll go with you as far as a coach should be able to tell a kid he’s playing soft and he needs to but up and go out there and protect his QB/RBs. If the bill of rights prevents that, then I disagree with it. But mentally and/or physically abusing kids was wrong when Bear Bryant and RMK were doing it and it’s wrong now.

Bad take

That's a hysterical reaction... Nobody does that sh-t anymore... but we need to tweak that line (#8) , or more specifically, tack on an addendum to more clearly delineate what can and cannot be said and done... Otherwise you get exactly what we've got out there..., with the HC giving em a pat on the helmet and telling em we'll get em next time (he's lying to them because they're too soft to make the effort to get them first time, the next time, or any time...)...; of course the only guys paying the price are the guys they're blocking for so why should they care...

 

[TMFT]

That's a hysterical reaction... Nobody does that sh-t anymore... but we need to tweak that line (#8) , or more specifically, tack on an addendum to more clearly delineate what can and cannot be said and done... Otherwise you get exactly what we've got out there..., with the HC giving em a pat on the helmet and telling em we'll get em next time (he's lying to them because they're too soft to make the effort to get them first time, the next time, or any time...)...; of course the only guys paying the price are the guys they're blocking for so why should they care...

No more hysterical than asking OL to line up to get smoked by DL. Like they’re gonna get whacked and a lightbulb will go off and they’ll decide they want to block. That’s asinine thinking.

And what inside info do you have that they just get a “we’ll get ‘em next time” as opposed to coaching?

it’s possible the coaching is t good. It’s possible the players aren’t good. And it’s possible the players don’t take coaching well. But there is literally zero chance they just get told “it’s okay buddy.”

 

[BayernFan]

IU won’t struggle with this coach except in avoiding a great time….

 

[Radio Zero]

In regards to your last comment, 76, on last night’s postgame call-in show, Bikoff observed at least a couple times that when JT went down with his injury, the OL guys seemed strangely unconcerned with or disconnected from what had just happened, something for which *they* were responsible. 🤨

 

[76-1]

No more hysterical than asking OL to line up to get smoked by DL. Like they’re gonna get whacked and a lightbulb will go off and they’ll decide they want to block. That’s asinine thinking.

And what inside info do you have that they just get a “we’ll get ‘em next time” as opposed to coaching?

it’s possible the coaching is t good. It’s possible the players aren’t good. And it’s possible the players don’t take coaching well. But there is literally zero chance they just get told “it’s okay buddy.”

Putting a lineman at QB in practice after allowing his QB to be hospitalized isn't exactly cruel and unusual treatment... He can only be hit above the waist and below the shoulders and unlike his QB he's as big or bigger than the guy hitting him so he's incurring no where near the risk of the poor bastard he's not blocking for... If there is any pain involved he very much Earned it...

 

[MMcCormick]

IU is going to continue to struggle until they get a formula for hiring good coaches. Has any coach Indiana has hired in the last twenty years actually been a good coach that failed at Indiana but went on somewhere else and was great. None of them do anything as head coaches after Indiana. I could name two guys right now who would take the job and win at Indiana. Jeff Monken at Army, and Troy Calhoun at Air Force. It's incredibly hard to win at those schools. They have unconventional offense that are hard to prep for an neutralize superior talent. The Big Ten schools are all "rich" schools relative to others and they are getting richer. Indiana is far from an impossible place to win. They just have a remarkable history of hiring bad coaches.

 

[82hoosier]

No spring game and a total of three scrimmages before the season started because CTA didn't want the players to get hurt. At this point they might as well do away with practices also

 

[Crossblock]

The more I think about a replacement if We decide to fire Allen, the more and more I like Paul Chryst. I don't know exactly what led to his dismissal at Wisconsin - burnout, inability to get along with the AD, but it certainly wasn't lack of success. Here is what I like.

1. He is 57 Years old. If He takes the job, it will undoubtedly be his last stop. He doesn't have to prove He is the smartest guy in the stadium and audition for the next job.

2. He has enough connections to bring in good assistants and not worry about whether the guys He is bringing in are smarter than He is.

3. He still has recruiting connections in Wisconsin. How terrible would it be to get 5 or 6 Linemen from Wisconsin that the badgers don't have room to take.

4. He won't stand for the inept play We have seen on both sides of the Ball, and He will have assistants Who won't stand for it and get it corrected.

 

[welshman#]

IU is going to continue to struggle until they get a formula for hiring good coaches. Has any coach Indiana has hired in the last twenty years actually been a good coach that failed at Indiana but went on somewhere else and was great. None of them do anything as head coaches after Indiana. I could name two guys right now who would take the job and win at Indiana. Jeff Monken at Army, and Troy Calhoun at Air Force. It's incredibly hard to win at those schools. They have unconventional offense that are hard to prep for an neutralize superior talent. The Big Ten schools are all "rich" schools relative to others and they are getting richer. Indiana is far from an impossible place to win. They just have a remarkable history of hiring bad coaches.

imo it’s also not a coincidence that the.majority of Indiana ADs who hired those coaches had little or no football backgrounds.

If competitive football programs can be fielded in places like Manhattan, Kansas or Ames, Iowa then it should certainly be possible to do so in Bloomington, Indiana

 

[vesuvius13]

IU is going to continue to struggle until they get a formula for hiring good coaches. Has any coach Indiana has hired in the last twenty years actually been a good coach that failed at Indiana but went on somewhere else and was great. None of them do anything as head coaches after Indiana. I could name two guys right now who would take the job and win at Indiana. Jeff Monken at Army, and Troy Calhoun at Air Force. It's incredibly hard to win at those schools. They have unconventional offense that are hard to prep for an neutralize superior talent. The Big Ten schools are all "rich" schools relative to others and they are getting richer. Indiana is far from an impossible place to win. They just have a remarkable history of hiring bad coaches.

They are coaching in very unique situations so there is no guarantee they would win at IU.

 

[76-1]

They are coaching in very unique situations so there is no guarantee they would win at IU.

We've been all through why the Wishbone won't work in the Big Ten over the years on here...

To wrap it up with a bow: there's simply far too much strength and speed fielded by Big Ten teams on defense to consistently get the edge on them..., and if you try to go small and quick on the OL their bigger DL will simply push you into the backfield blowing up the play...

I love that Offensive scheme, but it won't work in the Big Ten...

 

[MMcCormick]

No spring game and a total of three scrimmages before the season started because CTA didn't want the players to get hurt. At this point they might as well do away with practices also

These is an interesting point. Allen was terrified of injuries after last year. I have read he did a lot less hitting. Injuries are definitely a problem, but not being able to block or tackle is also a problem, and Indiana can't do either.

 

[MMcCormick]

We've been all through why the Wishbone won't work in the Big Ten over the years on here...

To wrap it up with a bow: there's simply far too much strength and speed fielded by Big Ten teams on defense to consistently get the edge on them..., and if you try to go small and quick on the OL their bigger DL will simply push you into the backfield blowing up the play...

I love that Offensive scheme, but it won't work in the Big Ten...

Tom Osborne had some success with it. Paul Johnson won at Georgia Tech with it and they have not had a winning season since he left. Navy has routinely given Notre Dame fits with it for 20 years. It does not have to be the wishbone. Airforce is a blend. Louisville runs an unconventional offense. Wisconsin is actually unconventional with their power attack. Kansas's offense falls into this category too. I think you need a coach who has an unconventional formula that works against better athletes. Going out there and playing Michigan straight up is probably going to be a tough matchup. Indiana does have high level offensive linemen in the state. Building a Wisconsin type power attack would make sense as they should be able to find five 325 pound farm boys every year. If Kansas and Kansas State can win. Indiana can win.

 

[TR32]

Indiana gets worse players than Michigan or OSU. This isn't rocket science.

Slower
Smaller
Less talented
And often less mentally tough (ie "riskier" as decision makers)

And when IU does get a few good ones, they aren't deep enough. FBS football is really about 50 teams. All the rest just do it for the money. So what kind of record would OSU have if they played Bama, Oklahoma, Clemson, ND.... they need bugs to squash. Indiana is a bug. Always have been.

 

[76-1]

Tom Osborne had some success with it. Paul Johnson won at Georgia Tech with it and they have not had a winning season since he left. Navy has routinely given Notre Dame fits with it for 20 years. It does not have to be the wishbone. Airforce is a blend. Louisville runs an unconventional offense. Wisconsin is actually unconventional with their power attack. Kansas's offense falls into this category too. I think you need a coach who has an unconventional formula that works against better athletes. Going out there and playing Michigan straight up is probably going to be a tough matchup. Indiana does have high level offensive linemen in the state. Building a Wisconsin type power attack would make sense as they should be able to find five 325 pound farm boys every year. If Kansas and Kansas State can win. Indiana can win.

You can blend variations of the Option into your base offense but if you try to make a living with it play in, play out, in the Big Ten you'll be very, very sorry... It's a recipe for 4-8 as long as you're running it...

 

[TR32]

2021 Rivals top 250.

OSU 17
Indiana 1

It is not far off of IU vs Marian in basketball but for some reason we just keep barking up the tree every year because IU makes money to lose games.

 

[jacksback]

These is an interesting point. Allen was terrified of injuries after last year. I have read he did a lot less hitting. Injuries are definitely a problem, but not being able to block or tackle is also a problem, and Indiana can't do either.

The whole "we were decimated by injuries" excuse for last season is total bullshit. We sucked from the first snap of the first game and continued to suck right through the butt whooping at West Lafayette.

 

[nurban]

imo it’s also not a coincidence that the.majority of Indiana ADs who hired those coaches had little or no football backgrounds.

If competitive football programs can be fielded in places like Manhattan, Kansas or Ames, Iowa then it should certainly be possible to do so in Bloomington, Indiana

Yep. Those programs are on the rise because they hired coaches with a history of building programs and winning at all levels. We make a knee jerk reaction and are stuck with the consequences. It would be interesting to know if that was totally on Dolson or some influencial alums contributed to the problem. maybe we need the Kansas AD. No one at IU has ever known anything about football.

 

[hoosier roadtrips]

Tom Osborne had some success with it. Paul Johnson won at Georgia Tech with it and they have not had a winning season since he left. Navy has routinely given Notre Dame fits with it for 20 years. It does not have to be the wishbone. Airforce is a blend. Louisville runs an unconventional offense. Wisconsin is actually unconventional with their power attack. Kansas's offense falls into this category too. I think you need a coach who has an unconventional formula that works against better athletes. Going out there and playing Michigan straight up is probably going to be a tough matchup. Indiana does have high level offensive linemen in the state. Building a Wisconsin type power attack would make sense as they should be able to find five 325 pound farm boys every year. If Kansas and Kansas State can win. Indiana can win.

The biggest problem, in my opinion, is the amount of physical pounding the QB's have while running that type of offense. What I do like with the triple option is that it should be great for passing out of it. The pass defenders should have to single cover the receivers. A good passer would be able to take advantage. Too often the quarterbacks at the academies are not good passers and can't utilize the air game.

 

[TMFT]

The whole "we were decimated by injuries" excuse for last season is total bullshit. We sucked from the first snap of the first game and continued to suck right through the butt whooping at West Lafayette.

It’s mostly BS, not all. The offense and ST were bad from the rip, the defense did play well through homecoming before finally falling apart.

 

[IUINSB]

You can blend variations of the Option into your base offense but if you try to make a living with it play in, play out, in the Big Ten you'll be very, very sorry... It's a recipe for 4-8 as long as you're running it...

Right about now I'd take 4-8.

 

[82hoosier]

Getting back to struggles of hiring a new coach: still get to play in the Eastern division. Thank you again Fred Glass. WTF were you thinking?

Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State have been great for a hundred years. And the Hoosiers long-term success is well documented. Did Fred think there's a 150-year cycle and that in another couple of generations it'll be the Hoosiers turn to be on top?

 

[jsenleo]

In regards to your last comment, 76, on last night’s postgame call-in show, Bikoff observed at least a couple times that when JT went down with his injury, the OL guys seemed strangely unconcerned with or disconnected from what had just happened, something for which *they* were responsible. 🤨

I heard Bikoff say that, too!.... I was at the game and after hearing Bikoff's comment I recalled that not one IU player, that I remember, came over to check on Tuttle. Not when he was down or as he was being walked off the field.... Excellent observation and somewhat of a testament to how ineffective the whole LEO culture is being taken.

DANC,.... do you remember seeing the same thing?

 

[kmathum]

Getting back to struggles of hiring a new coach: still get to play in the Eastern division. Thank you again Fred Glass. WTF were you thinking?

Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State have been great for a hundred years. And the Hoosiers long-term success is well documented. Did Fred think there's a 150-year cycle and that in another couple of generations it'll be the Hoosiers turn to be on top?

i doubt very seriously that fred had any say in the matter.

 

[UncleMark]

Getting back to struggles of hiring a new coach: still get to play in the Eastern division. Thank you again Fred Glass. WTF were you thinking?

i doubt very seriously that fred had any say in the matter.

It's not like Glass had some kind of veto power over how the divisions were set up. It was all he could do to get our rivalry game with Purdue locked in -- no other B1G team has a cross-divisional guaranteed rivalry game.

 

[82hoosier]

i doubt very seriously that fred had any say in the matter.

All the athletic directors had a vote and Fred Glass voted in favor of it.