ADVERTISEMENT

Sessions' and Sanders' abominable bastardization of St. Paul

TheOriginalHappyGoat

Moderator
Moderator
Oct 4, 2010
70,116
46,001
113
Margaritaville
In defending his decision to no longer allow spousal abuse as a reason to apply for asylum, Sessions said this:

I would cite you to the Apostle Paul and his clear and wise command in Romans 13, to obey the laws of the government because God has ordained the government for his purposes. Orderly and lawful processes are good in themselves. Consistent and fair application of the law is in itself a good and moral thing, and that protects the weak and protects the lawful.​

When asked about his comments, Sanders said she was unaware of what he said exactly, but did opine that "It's biblical to enforce the law."

Sessions and Sanders miss the mark by a mile, and you can actually see it right there in Sessions' comments. Sessions starts by mentioning that Paul told Christians to obey the government. This is true. But he then twists it into the idea that orderly enforcement of the law is inherently moral. That idea cannot be found in Paul's writings at all. Or in any part of the New Testament.

In Romans 13, Paul did plead for Christians to obey the civil authorities. But he never endorsed those authorities (as Sessions does), and he certainly never suggested it is Christian to take part in the enforcement of such laws (as Sanders does). Instead, following Jesus, who told his followers to "give unto Caesar what is Caesars," but also noted that his followers "are not of this world," Paul simply commands Christians not to cause problems. At the time, there were tensions, including tax revolts, that were bringing scrutiny and pressure on the Jewish and Christian populations, so it is likely that Paul was exhorting Christians not to take part in those revolts, for fear that the authorities would crack down. But whatever his motivations, his command was only that Christians display obedience, even in the face of oppression. Sessions and Sanders have turned this command into a charge to actually take part in and endorse said oppression.

It's not the first time authorities have made this mistake. Romans 13 has been called Paul's "notorious" theology of the state, because it has been used in the past to justify slavery, among other things. But defenders of slavery were making the same mistake our current leaders do - they were confusing obedience with active participation in the enforcement of oppression. Purported men and women of God can and should do better.
 
Did you see the cartoonist that was fired for his anti Trump illustrations? Somewhere out east...Philadelphia maybe?

It figures. If you are building a cult, you need a loyalty test for all citizens.

I dont think any of us, 18months ago would ever imagine things being as atrocious as it is now. The capitulation of the Republican Party and its leaders -- and now its trickling down into society.
Imagine what it will be like in another year's time?
 
I would like for any of the Republicans on the board to explain to me how one can be pro life and support the policy of separating these children from their parents?
 
To be fair, I don’t see the analogy.

If being anti abortion is in support of a child, I’d think you would be a person interested in issues related to the health and welfare of children. Further, if the opposition to abortion is based in religion, I’d think your Christian principles would also lead you to oppose breaking up families and taking the children. These seem related to me.
 
If being anti abortion is in support of a child, I’d think you would be a person interested in issues related to the health and welfare of children. Further, if the opposition to abortion is based in religion, I’d think your Christian principles would also lead you to oppose breaking up families and taking the children. These seem related to me.
I appreciate the response. I just can’t get there. I don’t think opposition to abortion is monolithic into religious reasons. One doesn’t need religion to have empathy and respect for human life. The debate is when it becomes human life.

Further, and I want to state that I think separating the child from the family is abhorrent and probably a human rights violation, there’s little to the debate of whether or not they’re breaking the law by illegally crossing the border. And I can’t help but wonder that, once caught and perhaps having a fatalistic outlook on their lives, how many are happy their children get to stay? Again it’s a horrific policy but I can see some fatalistic parents think they’re saving their childrens’ lives.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MrBing and Cortez88
Last edited:
ICE catches a family who have come into the country illegally. They have three choices:
1. Let 'em go aka Open Borders.
2. Schedule a hearing then let 'em go aka Catch and Release.
3. Put the parents in detention centers and the kids in foster care or child detention centers aka Tearing Families Apart.

So which do you prefer?
 
ICE catches a family who have come into the country illegally. They have three choices:
1. Let 'em go aka Open Borders.
2. Schedule a hearing then let 'em go aka Catch and Release.
3. Put the parents in detention centers and the kids in foster care or child detention centers aka Tearing Families Apart.

So which do you prefer?
Simple. Keep the family together.
 
  • Like
Reactions: largemouth
Must have been a SS member in his previous life.


Miller carries the remarkable distinction of having a face that remains distinctly punchable
in a GOP field overflowing with punchable faces.

Reminder of this upstanding gentleman:
 
I don’t think anyone could be surprised this is Miller’s idea. I’m sure Bannon was in favor also.

Such mean-spiritedness can only reflect the sort of upbringing/childhood a person had. No one who is happy would ever suggest such actions.
 
...there’s little to the debate of whether or not they’re breaking the law by illegally crossing the border.
They are doing this with asylum seeking families, are they not? They aren't breaking the law.
 
And of course Trump is lying about what he's doing. He's pursuing a barbaric policy because as a sociopath, he's completely okay with leveraging the terror of children to get his way. But as a congenital liar, he blames what he does on others.

And an historically high percentage of Republicans are completely down with this. I don't care what you RINOs say about what you erroneously imagine is your party, because it's Trump's party now. How long can decent people admit to being Republican?
 
They are doing this with asylum seeking families, are they not? They aren't breaking the law.
There are stories of some people entering legally who are being separated, however it's unclear how widespread it is. It appears the vast majority are people who are crossing illegally (to legally request asylum, you are supposed to do it an an official entry point).
 
  • Like
Reactions: anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa
And of course Trump is lying about what he's doing. He's pursuing a barbaric policy because as a sociopath, he's completely okay with leveraging the terror of children to get his way. But as a congenital liar, he blames what he does on others.

And an historically high percentage of Republicans are completely down with this. I don't care what you RINOs say about what you erroneously imagine is your party, because it's Trump's party now. How long can decent people admit to being Republican?
 
So, why has our resident theologian not weighed in on this topic?

VPM, what say you of Sessions use of the Bible in this way to claim that everyone just needs to stand down and accept this policy?
 
And of course Trump is lying about what he's doing. He's pursuing a barbaric policy because as a sociopath, he's completely okay with leveraging the terror of children to get his way. But as a congenital liar, he blames what he does on others.

And an historically high percentage of Republicans are completely down with this. I don't care what you RINOs say about what you erroneously imagine is your party, because it's Trump's party now. How long can decent people admit to being Republican?

If it really is the dems fault it’s too bad that republicans don’t have complete control of the government so they can put a stop to the cruelty...wait, never mind
 
  • Like
Reactions: largemouth
In defending his decision to no longer allow spousal abuse as a reason to apply for asylum, Sessions said this:

I would cite you to the Apostle Paul and his clear and wise command in Romans 13, to obey the laws of the government because God has ordained the government for his purposes. Orderly and lawful processes are good in themselves. Consistent and fair application of the law is in itself a good and moral thing, and that protects the weak and protects the lawful.​

When asked about his comments, Sanders said she was unaware of what he said exactly, but did opine that "It's biblical to enforce the law."

Sessions and Sanders miss the mark by a mile, and you can actually see it right there in Sessions' comments. Sessions starts by mentioning that Paul told Christians to obey the government. This is true. But he then twists it into the idea that orderly enforcement of the law is inherently moral. That idea cannot be found in Paul's writings at all. Or in any part of the New Testament.

In Romans 13, Paul did plead for Christians to obey the civil authorities. But he never endorsed those authorities (as Sessions does), and he certainly never suggested it is Christian to take part in the enforcement of such laws (as Sanders does). Instead, following Jesus, who told his followers to "give unto Caesar what is Caesars," but also noted that his followers "are not of this world," Paul simply commands Christians not to cause problems. At the time, there were tensions, including tax revolts, that were bringing scrutiny and pressure on the Jewish and Christian populations, so it is likely that Paul was exhorting Christians not to take part in those revolts, for fear that the authorities would crack down. But whatever his motivations, his command was only that Christians display obedience, even in the face of oppression. Sessions and Sanders have turned this command into a charge to actually take part in and endorse said oppression.

It's not the first time authorities have made this mistake. Romans 13 has been called Paul's "notorious" theology of the state, because it has been used in the past to justify slavery, among other things. But defenders of slavery were making the same mistake our current leaders do - they were confusing obedience with active participation in the enforcement of oppression. Purported men and women of God can and should do better.

A couple of comments re Paul 13

1. Verse 1 says: “
“13 Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God. “. This is certainly an endorsement of government.

2. Paul calls on his followers to follow God’s law first and Government law as long as it doesn’t call for us to break God’s Law.

As I said in another post. The main objective with the posts on this board is to give liberal haters a platform to spew their bigoted hate. Have at it!
 
In defending his decision to no longer allow spousal abuse as a reason to apply for asylum, Sessions said this:

I would cite you to the Apostle Paul and his clear and wise command in Romans 13, to obey the laws of the government because God has ordained the government for his purposes. Orderly and lawful processes are good in themselves. Consistent and fair application of the law is in itself a good and moral thing, and that protects the weak and protects the lawful.​

When asked about his comments, Sanders said she was unaware of what he said exactly, but did opine that "It's biblical to enforce the law."

Sessions and Sanders miss the mark by a mile, and you can actually see it right there in Sessions' comments. Sessions starts by mentioning that Paul told Christians to obey the government. This is true. But he then twists it into the idea that orderly enforcement of the law is inherently moral. That idea cannot be found in Paul's writings at all. Or in any part of the New Testament.

In Romans 13, Paul did plead for Christians to obey the civil authorities. But he never endorsed those authorities (as Sessions does), and he certainly never suggested it is Christian to take part in the enforcement of such laws (as Sanders does). Instead, following Jesus, who told his followers to "give unto Caesar what is Caesars," but also noted that his followers "are not of this world," Paul simply commands Christians not to cause problems. At the time, there were tensions, including tax revolts, that were bringing scrutiny and pressure on the Jewish and Christian populations, so it is likely that Paul was exhorting Christians not to take part in those revolts, for fear that the authorities would crack down. But whatever his motivations, his command was only that Christians display obedience, even in the face of oppression. Sessions and Sanders have turned this command into a charge to actually take part in and endorse said oppression.

It's not the first time authorities have made this mistake. Romans 13 has been called Paul's "notorious" theology of the state, because it has been used in the past to justify slavery, among other things. But defenders of slavery were making the same mistake our current leaders do - they were confusing obedience with active participation in the enforcement of oppression. Purported men and women of God can and should do better.

A couple of comments re Paul 13

1. Verse 1 says: “
“13 Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God. “. This is certainly an endorsement of government.

2. Paul calls on his followers to follow God’s law first and Government law as long as it doesn’t call for us to break God’s Law.

As I said in another post. The main objective with the posts on this board is to give liberal haters a platform to spew their bigoted hate. Have at it!
Yep the liberals are full of hate. That’s why we elected Mr. Hate himself, Donald Trump.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sglowrider
A couple of comments re Paul 13

1. Verse 1 says: “
“13 Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God. “. This is certainly an endorsement of government.

2. Paul calls on his followers to follow God’s law first and Government law as long as it doesn’t call for us to break God’s Law.

As I said in another post. The main objective with the posts on this board is to give liberal haters a platform to spew their bigoted hate. Have at it!

And what did Jesus say was God's 2nd most important law?
 
That's an opinion piece with no numbers. Let's see actual statistics. And yes, it's always wrong.
A family with mom, dad and three kids (8, 6, and 4 yrs old) illegally enters the US from Mexico. What should we do with them?
 
A family with mom, dad and three kids (8, 6, and 4 yrs old) illegally enters the US from Mexico. What should we do with them?
Assuming they were caught entering the country.
1. Detain them
2. Keep them together
3. Make a determination on asylum
4. Let them stay or send them back
 
  • Like
Reactions: largemouth
Assuming they were caught entering the country.
1. Detain them
2. Keep them together
3. Make a determination on asylum
4. Let them stay or send them back

1. Detain them W*E*R*E?
2. Keeping them together in jails or detention centers is illegal IAW 1997 Flores Settlement Agreement.
3. Determination of asylum is made at US embassy in country of origin or at LEGAL entry points into the US. Again, that is the law of the land.
4. "Let them stay or send them back" is mindless gibberish. Do you think there is a third option?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lucy01
Any reason

1. Somewhere other than a windowless abandoned Wal-Mart

2. Maybe they could follow the Flores Agreement.

The Flores Settlement Agreement (Flores) imposed several obligations on the immigration authorities, which fall into three broad categories:

A. The government is required to release children from immigration detention without unnecessary delay to, in order of preference, parents, other adult relatives, or licensed programs willing to accept custody.

B. If a suitable placement is not immediately available, the government is obligated to place children in the “least restrictive” setting appropriate to their age and any special needs.

C. The government must implement standards relating to the care and treatment of children in immigration detention

3. Even if you crossed the border illegally you can still ask for asylum.

4. The original question was asked so you could rail against any answer you didn't agree with, so garbage in garbage out.
 
Great idea! We'll keep the family together at a room in the local Holiday Inn. Buffet breakfast and swimming pool.

If that's your solution great.
Seems a little over the top.
I was thinking keeping them together in the same facility and adding windows.
If they aren't warehousing kids in the local Home Depot maybe they could run down and pickup some fixed pane windows.

You act like I want them cut loose or housed like they are on vacation, neither is close to the truth. I want them stopped, housed, processed and treated with a bit of humanity. You know that whole shining city on the hill bullshit we like to drag out now and again.
 
That is illegal. Can't house kids in the same detention center as parents. 1997 Flores Settlement Agreement. That's why they split 'em up.
That's not accurate. Any minor that remains in government custody must be housed in a facility that meets certain standards, but there is no stipulation that they cannot be in the same facility as their parents. A family detention center that meets these standards would still be allowed under the Settlement.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT